Is dragon leap so versitale, that in any situation the user is at a advantage?

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

Hi everyone, this is a discussion on dk leap. During my last post "Should gap closers stun" the topic of dk leap has come up alot. It is my belief that dk leap is the best ultimate in the game and over preforming. I believe this to be true because no matter the situation dragon leap reward is to high upon use. This ultimate has a distance of 22 plus meters making it the most effective gap closer in the game, stun, player lock, aoe damage instant cast time and unique passive helping hand. The morph increases the distance or adds a shield. Dk as a melee class is optimize and rewarded when using class skills that range is 7 meter or less. Making them dangerous up close. a opponent GAMEPLAN is not to get put in a blender with fossilize. Because of this ultimate it bypasses any and all counter play to dk. Dk leap guarantee a way in to your opponent. No matter the situation. I would like to see counter play that is on par with this skill and the stun removed from this ultimate or because this skill player lock at a far distance. A 3 sec q like meteor. That the leap is coming.

jaws343 · November 2019

It has a travel time and can be blocked. Hardly overpowered.

BaiterOfZergs · November 2019

Don’t think it’s overpowered, it’s just versatile.

Sanguinor2 · November 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Hi everyone, this is a discussion on dk leap. During my last post "Should gap closers stun" the topic of dk leap has come up alot. It is my belief that dk leap is the best ultimate in the game and over preforming. I believe this to be true because no matter the situation dragon leap reward is to high upon use. This ultimate has a distance of 22 plus meters making it the most effective gap closer in the game, stun, player lock, aoe damage instant cast time and unique passive helping hand. The morph increases the distance or adds a shield. Dk as a melee class is optimize and rewarded when using class skills that range is 7 meter or less. Making them dangerous up close. a opponent GAMEPLAN is not to get put in a blender with fossilize. Because of this ultimate it bypasses any and all counter play to dk. Dk leap guarantee a way in to your opponent. No matter the situation. I would like to see counter play that is on par with this skill and the stun removed from this ultimate or because this skill player lock at a far distance. A 3 sec q like meteor. That the leap is coming.

First of all I got a Question for you. Why exactly should a melee class not have ways to close the distance?

With that out of the way, leap only damages and stuns (one Morph provides a Shield, the other just increases Damage and reduces cost a bit) hardly overloaded compared to other ults.

In your last thread we already told you that leap is rarely used as a gapcloser, but once again, using leap as a gap Closer isnt that good because: Minimum 31 seconds downtime, nearly all of dk class Sustain is gone once you ult, because of lack of execute and currently weak dots leap is often needed to finish a target off, cant do that if you use it to gap close.

If you dont see a 22+m range leap coming there wont be any visual cue that will help you see it to block in time. Also your Suggestion of a 3 second time until leap finishes sucks because dks (mag atleast) Need leap to hit near instantly to finish someone or pressure with its burst.

Solariken · November 2019

It is the best ultimate in the game, true, but don't you dare be nerfing it ZOS **shakes fist**

TrinityBreaker · November 2019

1.Helping hands passice is NOT procced by using Slam Dunk, battle roar is.
2. It can be blocked and depending on how far away the dk, you can out run its range.
3.In what way, shaoe, or form is Slam Dunk over performing?

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

To all I see your point of view of how spectacular it is to use in term of dps. I personally try not to come off as bias. Now I ask to same of all that is replying. As a defender with all that is mention before is dragon leap is in fact use primarily as a combo ender. Then why does it stun? If a dk needs a gap closer that bypasses all keep away game. Then way is it on the defender to block a stun. If the speed of leap need to be so fast to a 3 sec q can not apply then why does it stun? Please don't be bias and answer for a defender stand point on the receiving end of dragon leap

Sanguinor2 · November 2019

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

To all I see your point of view of how spectacular it is to use in term of dps. I personally try not to come off as bias. Now I ask to same of all that is replying. As a defender with all that is mention before is dragon leap is in fact use primarily as a combo ender. Then why does it stun? If a dk needs a gap closer that bypasses all keep away game. Then way is it on the defender to block a stun. If the speed of leap need to be so fast to a 3 sec q can not apply then why does it stun? Please don't be bias and answer for a defender stand point on the receiving end of dragon leap

The Question why it stuns is one that you´ll have to ask the original Combat Designers, they are not with zos anymore tho so good luck with that.

If you want to know why the stun is nice, well that is because obviously having a stun is Always nice, it also helps if your target survives the leap so you can set up a bit more burst by proccing power lash/having a rather secure molten Whip hit.

And if you want to know why the stun wasnt taken away in over 5 years, well apparently the Combat Teams in all the years of leap being able to stun (so since its Inception) dont think that its bad that leap stuns, or atleast dont think that removing the cc has a high priority.

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

I understand this post can heated but for all that reply. Let's keep zos out of it. This is a safe play for are opinions. Back on topic after years of playing this game meta has change. As well as a shift in direction of best in slot. It is my belief. That the stun of dragon leap is no long required due to balance gameplay changes. It is also my belief that the reaction time require to block a dk stun. Is also unbalance with the direction taken in comparison to other skills and ultimate.

NBrookus · November 2019

Again with the nerf requests? I'm sorry you die to DKs, but mag sorc is the class most equipped to remove themselves from a fight with a DK they don't want to be in, full stop.

Leap is a solid performing ult with pros and cons. mDK really has no other effective ultimate to use with their toolkit, so they use Leap.

And if Take Flight were so OP surely all those stam DKs wouldn't be using Onslaught.

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

Leap pros and cons please explain them.

TrinityBreaker · November 2019

Good damage if built for it.
Sexy animation.
Most satisfying ult in the game and is pretty balanced actually.

Bugs out from time to time.
Can be out ran depending on how far the DK is from the target.
Sometimes the leap will land but no damage and/or cc will register ( and No the target was NOT blocking it).

Kel · November 2019

Block it.

"Why is it on the defender to block a stun?"

This can't be a serious question. You could say this about anything...why should I have to block the stun from meteor, why should I have to dodge roll rune cage, why do I have to break free out of fossilize...I mean, off balance into a heavy attack stuns. Why is it on the defender to block? Because you're on defense. Really can't take that question seriously. What answer do you expect exactly?

It has a travel time, unless the DK is close to you. Plenty of time to block. I can't remember the last time I got hit with a full leap. Most DK's I see are running Onslaught anyway. And those that don't leap you from a mile away.

Also:

STOP👏
ASKING👏
FOR👏
NERFS👏

No one wins every battle. This game would be far better off if everyone would accept that.

Nord_Raseri · November 2019

Best Ult? Hardly. But it is a very good ult when used properly.

usmguy1234 · November 2019

I literally just tl;dr op's post as some people are still salty that certain ults got cast times while others didn't. I'd argue that we should take the opposite approach and demand zos to revert the ultimates that they added cast times to back to their normal, instant state. One of the biggest plagues in the current meta is bursting people down because of the healing buffs zos added to the game last dlc along with stupid op dots. Now the stupid op dots are gone in this dlc but the healing is the same. Ultimates with cast time only compound this issue.

Kel · November 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I literally just tl;dr op's post as some people are still salty that certain ults got cast times while others didn't. I'd argue that we should take the opposite approach and demand zos to revert the ultimates that they added cast times to back to their normal, instant state. One of the biggest plagues in the current meta is bursting people down because of the healing buffs zos added to the game last dlc along with stupid op dots. Now the stupid op dots are gone in this dlc but the healing is the same. Ultimates with cast time only compound this issue.

Preach!

Fully agree with this post.

jcm2606 · November 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I literally just tl;dr op's post as some people are still salty that certain ults got cast times while others didn't. I'd argue that we should take the opposite approach and demand zos to revert the ultimates that they added cast times to back to their normal, instant state. One of the biggest plagues in the current meta is bursting people down because of the healing buffs zos added to the game last dlc along with stupid op dots. Now the stupid op dots are gone in this dlc but the healing is the same. Ultimates with cast time only compound this issue.

What is this? Do I detect, logic, sense? How dare you! Don't you be making sense!

Iskiab · November 2019

Leap is a good ultimate yea, but they’re supposed to be good. They’re called ultimates, not mediocremates.

Crescent is up there too.

GhostofDatthaw · November 2019

So.... Did you not like the response from your first nerf leap thread, and then decide to make another?

NyassaV · November 2019

Of all nerfs that DK might need this is certainly not one of them. Don't touch leap. It's fine.

technohic · November 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

So.... Did you not like the response from your first nerf leap thread, and then decide to make another?

Im sure its not a nerf thread. He just doesnt believe gap closers should have a stun and decided to post a "Dragon leap to stronk" thread to discuss.

oXI_Viper_IXo · November 2019

(Snip). Maybe try playing a DK for awhile and then come back and tell us that leap needs nerfing.

Leap is a great ulti. It doesn't need to be nerfed, but other ultis should be on par with it at least (remove the damn cast times).

(edited for content)

JumpmanLane · November 2019

Counterplay? Try blocking lol. MOST folks’ leaps are so weak you need not even bother.

Don’t know when to block? When your health is low. Most DK’s are using leap as their execute.

Op that wrote this. Should you ever encounter a DK using leap as a gap closer, that fool’s running DAMAGE. You’d have died to them ANYWAY lol.

Absolutely a l2p issue. Stam DK’s are forced to run crap like New Moon, fury and RECOVERY glyphs!?!?? MagDK streamers running around in ALCAST builds (no offense @Alcast ). The state of Dragonknight is such that it REALLY don’t need another nerf thread. lol.

Ragnarock41 · November 2019

Kel wrote: »

Block it.

"Why is it on the defender to block a stun?"

This can't be a serious question. You could say this about anything...why should I have to block the stun from meteor, why should I have to dodge roll rune cage, why do I have to break free out of fossilize...I mean, off balance into a heavy attack stuns. Why is it on the defender to block? Because you're on defense. Really can't take that question seriously. What answer do you expect exactly?

It has a travel time, unless the DK is close to you. Plenty of time to block. I can't remember the last time I got hit with a full leap. Most DK's I see are running Onslaught anyway. And those that don't leap you from a mile away.

Also:

STOP👏
ASKING👏
FOR👏
NERFS👏

No one wins every battle. This game would be far better off if everyone would accept that.

Well turns out OP is a lightning heavy spamming pet sorcerer. Explains a lot actually.

Iskiab · November 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Block it.

"Why is it on the defender to block a stun?"

This can't be a serious question. You could say this about anything...why should I have to block the stun from meteor, why should I have to dodge roll rune cage, why do I have to break free out of fossilize...I mean, off balance into a heavy attack stuns. Why is it on the defender to block? Because you're on defense. Really can't take that question seriously. What answer do you expect exactly?

It has a travel time, unless the DK is close to you. Plenty of time to block. I can't remember the last time I got hit with a full leap. Most DK's I see are running Onslaught anyway. And those that don't leap you from a mile away.

Also:

STOP👏
ASKING👏
FOR👏
NERFS👏

No one wins every battle. This game would be far better off if everyone would accept that.

Well turns out OP is a lightning heavy spamming pet sorcerer. Explains a lot actually.

Can you imagine petsorcs if no gap closers stunned and shield blocked status effects? Threads are basicly buff me to god mode threads.

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

Smh, Unfortunately your quote makes no sense. All the changes are gameplay" combat and gameplay mechanics" this is not a pet sorc post nor was any of the the changes directed in 1 class that you provided. Please keep things on topic.

Heatnix90 · November 2019

Ultimates are rule breakers, designed that way because you can't spam them freely.

(snip)

(edited for content)

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

I dont agree at all with you statement nor do it make sense that ultimate are game breaker. If that was the case ultimate would of never seen any changes. Also I play at a high level in the game. But please let's keep things on topic

Abyssmol · November 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Block it.

"Why is it on the defender to block a stun?"

This can't be a serious question. You could say this about anything...why should I have to block the stun from meteor, why should I have to dodge roll rune cage, why do I have to break free out of fossilize...I mean, off balance into a heavy attack stuns. Why is it on the defender to block? Because you're on defense. Really can't take that question seriously. What answer do you expect exactly?

It has a travel time, unless the DK is close to you. Plenty of time to block. I can't remember the last time I got hit with a full leap. Most DK's I see are running Onslaught anyway. And those that don't leap you from a mile away.

Also:

STOP👏
ASKING👏
FOR👏
NERFS👏

No one wins every battle. This game would be far better off if everyone would accept that.

Well turns out OP is a lightning heavy spamming pet sorcerer. Explains a lot actually.

Can you imagine petsorcs if no gap closers stunned and shield blocked status effects? Threads are basicly buff me to god mode threads.

Just imagine fighting a range sorc without a gap closer with a stun - sorc stay at a distance; you gap close, sorc streak away and continue killing you from a distance.

phoenixkungfu · November 2019

I dont agree with the logic that a stun is needed on a gap closer. There are plenty of stuns in the game that are devastating to use in combo with a gap closer. A stun on a gap closer simple lowers reaction time and provides to much advantage as we as bar space to the user. Also this topic is on the advantage upon use of a dk ultimate and if there is a situation in which a dk is not positive advantage on use.

Nord_Raseri · November 2019

DK leap is in a good spot. One of the very very limited things that are in a good spot on stamdk. At this point you're just repeating the same thing over and over again, as are we.