To play with randoms= wasting your time

Tsar_Gekkou · November 2019

ThePlayer wrote: »

except those who come from the console can succeed.

I've heard stuff like this a few times. Are there really people on PC who can't do a dungeon or trial without an addon telling them how to wipe their butts or block?

MartiniDaniels · November 2019

So IMO if ZOS want to reanimate vDLC queue, they need to improve rewards, depending on how group finder was used.
- if this is solo/duo vDLC queue - guaranteed 5-transmute stone for completion
- If this is 3-4 groupfinder queue - guaranteed 5-transmute for HM
No matter if there is pledge or not. To avoid exploiting same dungeons - this extra reward available once per week (per dungeon). Exclude WGT/ICP/RoM/CoS because those 4 are relatively easy even with low group dps.

MartiniDaniels · November 2019

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

except those who come from the console can succeed.

I've heard stuff like this a few times. Are there really people on PC who can't do a dungeon or trial without an addon telling them how to wipe their butts or block?

He meant that low-CP who doesn't came from console or another server extremely rare have knowledge of mechanics and tanking/healing/dps experience. Simply because they are newbies. I remember myself at CP400... i was tanking those vDLC with default enchantments like absorb health because I had no idea crusher/weakening exist.

IndianaJames7 · November 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

So IMO if ZOS want to reanimate vDLC queue, they need to improve rewards, depending on how group finder was used.
- if this is solo/duo vDLC queue - guaranteed 5-transmute stone for completion
- If this is 3-4 groupfinder queue - guaranteed 5-transmute for HM
No matter if there is pledge or not. To avoid exploiting same dungeons - this extra reward available once per week (per dungeon). Exclude WGT/ICP/RoM/CoS because those 4 are relatively easy even with low group dps.

I really like this idea.

idk · November 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

So IMO if ZOS want to reanimate vDLC queue, they need to improve rewards, depending on how group finder was used.
- if this is solo/duo vDLC queue - guaranteed 5-transmute stone for completion
- If this is 3-4 groupfinder queue - guaranteed 5-transmute for HM
No matter if there is pledge or not. To avoid exploiting same dungeons - this extra reward available once per week (per dungeon). Exclude WGT/ICP/RoM/CoS because those 4 are relatively easy even with low group dps.

I do not think Zos should encourage specific sizes of groups queuing for any dungeon. Specifically it would seem like a very bad idea to do it for DLCs since it would essentially lead to more threads like this.

It certainly does not solve OP's issue, The skilled players that form their own group via guilds and other sources are still going to do that because it makes much more sense than to rely on the GF to find players of uncertain skill level.

If you want to run a DLC and help ensure you avoid the frustration OP has described start forming your own group. Gives control to you over the type of group you will have. Then again, there will not be anyone to blame if not able to clear.

morrowjen · November 2019

2

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

What masochist tries to run Vet content with PUGS?

That's one of the main reasons to have a good guild or two...

Honestly, aside from DLC and a few tricky regular dungeons, it's been a breeze to PUG vet content. Sometimes it's impossible to PUG with the group you're given but for the most part it's a lot of fun.

akl77 · November 2019

Do you not play games to waste your time or kill your time?

nickl413 · November 2019

ThePlayer wrote: »

I try to complete the random vet dlc dungeons with all my chars, 16 in total, when I play with my alts tanks it is possible and I can easily find, after the 3rd attempt, a capable group; playing as a healer is already more complicated and not at all easy as DDs.
I do not speak of the difficulties of the dungeons, those I have already made all of them and my dps is adequate, perhaps not perfect with everyone, but I pass the +30/35k with everyone in the tests dps;
The main problem that no tank is found, the key system and the loot fails to attract enough players, in addition to this it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready, except those who come from the console can succeed.
Now with time i will be able to complete the dlc vet dungeons with all my chars, that's for sure, but then I'll go back to queue for veteran? I think no, nothing drives me to do it.
ZOS are you planning to change something? like:
1) final loot gold, craft materials gold for example.
2) special loot for the role that is missing in the queue.

P.S. ZOS thanks to you i become more and more toxic with randoms, but in reality i am good

1) will only increase the amount of scrubs in the que, just like ESO events do
2) interesting but I'm afraid that would result in more fake tanks in que.

If you want to ensure a successful vet DLC run, the only two choices are que as dps, or que with your guild.

TheUrbanWizard · November 2019

#RaNdUm4LiFe

Jeremy · November 2019

ThePlayer wrote: »

I try to complete the random vet dlc dungeons with all my chars, 16 in total, when I play with my alts tanks it is possible and I can easily find, after the 3rd attempt, a capable group; playing as a healer is already more complicated and not at all easy as DDs.
I do not speak of the difficulties of the dungeons, those I have already made all of them and my dps is adequate, perhaps not perfect with everyone, but I pass the +30/35k with everyone in the tests dps;
The main problem that no tank is found, the key system and the loot fails to attract enough players, in addition to this it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready, except those who come from the console can succeed.
Now with time i will be able to complete the dlc vet dungeons with all my chars, that's for sure, but then I'll go back to queue for veteran? I think no, nothing drives me to do it.
ZOS are you planning to change something? like:
1) final loot gold, craft materials gold for example.
2) special loot for the role that is missing in the queue.

P.S. ZOS thanks to you i become more and more toxic with randoms, but in reality i am good

Yeah tanks are the rarest - like they are on all other MMO games. Though in my experience, the real problem with Pugs and DLC dungeons isn't that their DPS isn't high enough. It has more to do with the fact this game is populated with glass cannons and healers who aren't capable of saving them in time before they die. Everyone follows those Alcast guides or something and builds their character for trial situations where you are surrounded with experienced and coordinated teams for maximum DPS and efficiency but it leaves very little room for error on a messy pug. Hence why 90% of them tend to blow up.

In other words: it takes a really good healer to make the average pug work for the harder veteran DLC content. Otherwise, the DPS tend to drop like flies and everyone confuses that with a lack of DPS when in fact the reality is it's just a lack of them staying alive.

phileunderx2 · November 2019

Pugging a base game vet dungeon isn't bad until you get that group that has terrible DPS. Then it is very bad and you vow to never do it again.

Araneae6537 · November 2019

There are PLENTY of excellent tanks who PUG vet dungeons. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting several who were not only excellent at their role, but very helpful as well.

I am in some great guilds, but often PUG as well, either by myself or with a guildie (I usually play healer). Not every experience is great but most are good.

I do agree with what some have said that tanking in ESO seems like more work. It’s been a while, but I remember it being easier in SWTOR, for instance (the only other MMORPG I’ve played that really has a tank role; GW2 is too different in this regard to compare IMHO), so long as you knew the encounters. I feel like an area taunt would be great and something like the DK chain ability (or how else do you group enemies, especially untauntable ones?). I could be way off as I haven’t tanked a lot in ESO but that is how it seems to me.

Kadoin · November 2019

All I know is that a true tank would not solely point fingers when a group wipes if they had not actually done all they can. If you have to seriously come on to the forums to find an echo chamber instead of preparing for more than one situation in a random dungeon party (including low DPS and DPS checks), then you must not be anywhere near as good as you think.

siddique · November 2019

I've PUGed almost all dlc vet dungeons, some of them on hardmode as well. With my tank and with my dps.

I admit, my healer, who I've played for less than a day, got carried by the PUG, but first run of a dungeon, he came out Thane of Falkreath.

Sometimes you find pretty badass people.

Hotdog_23 · November 2019

As a tank with a less than perfect group makes the tank’s job harder. Say to yourself you accept the challenge and have fun. Sure you can if any good really can always find a group to run with but where is the challenge in that for the tank. That's playing it safe. Pugs can be really fun. Some are a nightmare but hey it's game to play for fun. Enjoy it.

Kel · November 2019

Healers and tanks who use the group finder are GD Hero's. Don't listen to this nonsense...so many fake role issues over the years in these fourms and you're going to talk about "respectable tanks and healers"? Shame...SHAME!

Group finder needs you, tanks and healers. You are more than respectable. You are a hero. A blessing on you and your house for your service to this game.
💚

Kadoin · November 2019

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

As a tank with a less than perfect group makes the tank’s job harder. Say to yourself you accept the challenge and have fun. Sure you can if any good really can always find a group to run with but where is the challenge in that for the tank. That's playing it safe. Pugs can be really fun. Some are a nightmare but hey it's game to play for fun. Enjoy it.

Nightmares are where you learn to really play the game and that there actually are other ways to do things that aren't described in guides. Well, not all the time though

jircris11 · November 2019

ThePlayer wrote: »

I try to complete the random vet dlc dungeons with all my chars, 16 in total, when I play with my alts tanks it is possible and I can easily find, after the 3rd attempt, a capable group; playing as a healer is already more complicated and not at all easy as DDs.
I do not speak of the difficulties of the dungeons, those I have already made all of them and my dps is adequate, perhaps not perfect with everyone, but I pass the +30/35k with everyone in the tests dps;
The main problem that no tank is found, the key system and the loot fails to attract enough players, in addition to this it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready, except those who come from the console can succeed.
Now with time i will be able to complete the dlc vet dungeons with all my chars, that's for sure, but then I'll go back to queue for veteran? I think no, nothing drives me to do it.
ZOS are you planning to change something? like:
1) final loot gold, craft materials gold for example.
2) special loot for the role that is missing in the queue.

P.S. ZOS thanks to you i become more and more toxic with randoms, but in reality i am good

I play tank, what I find when running with randoms is this. Some listen, some dont, most seem to have the IQ of a ball of lint. I love the ones who try and give it their all, hate the ones who left click the entire time or "know best". I'm the tank, you listen to my instructions less you want aggro dumped on you.

EIGHTS · November 2019

I really think ZOS should add some NPC mercenaries to the game.

Aznarb · November 2019

Yesterday we've pug with 3 friend hoping for a Tank to do the 6 key run.
The 2 easy DG was fast and the tank was a 400+ CP playing pretty well with placement.
But once we got on Hunter Moon Keep, he said it was his 1st time, we said on of our DPS too, so no worry.

We start good but have to stop at the White WW boss.
Here it was the reveal of the fact than this tank have only do the easy content until now.
To many LA, or HA with froststaff and some other useless thing made him kill by boss/add (and maybe resistance a bit to low).

We have do 5-6 try but it was obvious than even if we pass this boss we we'll not pass the behemoth in the4th boss room.

We stop, we do not kick him, we choose to explain and leave all together. The dude was full of good intention and trying this best we just couldn't kick him even if he ask ^^

After that I /w him to make sur all was fine, and explain him that ; "I'm sure you gonna be a really great Tank if you take the time to do more hard content like this, don't be afraid to wipe, fail, or get bad team, just try time to time until you lose bad habit from easy content and you gonna be great"

Some PU deserve some time and help, most would just don't care, but some are wort the time you spend to make them better ^^

All of that to said, Tank is a bit like healer, incredibly boring and useless in 90% content. But in the other 10% they're incredibly needed and the job is very hard.

I think it's the main thing we see few tank in DLC vet content, most of them are just not good enough to do it (like most of people in general despite the class tbh).
So when you find a tank doing really is best, try to bring it in harder content and teach him all you can so he can improve instead of stopping and playing something else.

I've a tank I play time to time, mostly for fun, and it took me few week to be really good at some hard hitting vDLC HM content, but now it's fun to play it

(but I'm still a heal main :>)

Sorry for the wall of text and the probably horrible amount of grammar error !

Indoril_Nerevar · November 2019

I couldn't agree more.

It's absolutely VIRAL how bad these public VETERAN dungeons are.

You are either getting paired up with level 200's and level 80's who take 10 minutes to kill the first enemies you approach in the dungeon OR with high levels that deliberately troll your dungeon and waste your time.

The last 5 days, I have run a specific dungeon in order to farm a gear set. I have run it over 30 times, and been forced to leave groups over 15 times.

When we are already dealing with unacceptable drop rates and a mass load of other issues in the game, it gets beyond agitating and questionable when we can't even play the content that exists in a game just because of the player community.

This is the kind of stuff that has made so many people quit. This kind of stuff is exactly what ruins motivation and desire to play.

gatekeeper13 · November 2019

Speaking as someone whose main role is a tank and has managed to tank with pugs some veteran DLC dungeons like Fang Lair, Cradle of Shadows and Depths of Malatar (not sth special, just wanna say I am not a totally useless or inexperienced tank), I believe that the game's dungeons (mainly the DLC ones) were designed in such a way that huge pressure is put on the tank role and very small enjoyment or rewarding feeling. Its the role that most group members put the blame on if they get wiped (no matter if the DDs do a combined DPS of 20k and die in every AoE or the healer doesnt heal or give synergies). Its the role that has the most stress to taunt, CC, buff, stay alive, manage his resources etc. Its the role with absolutely zero recognition from the game while at the same time a DD looks "cool" and boasts publicly about his DPS. Its the role whose job becomes super annoying if he has to crowd control 10 trash and has 2 DDs that can't kill them. These are some of the reasons why I consider the tank role so unpopular and why there are so few tanks in the group finder.

What ZOS doesnt seem to understand is that most people play this game to have fun. But the way their dungeons were designed and the RNG was programmed, makes the game sometimes more painful than enjoyable e.g. why should a tank go back to vFrostvault if he got the helm he wanted?

Thats my opinion. Maybe wrong.

Indoril_Nerevar · November 2019

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Speaking as someone whose main role is a tank and has managed to tank with pugs some veteran DLC dungeons like Fang Lair, Cradle of Shadows and Depths of Malatar (not sth special, just wanna say I am not a totally useless or inexperienced tank), I believe that the game's dungeons (mainly the DLC ones) were designed in such a way that huge pressure is put on the tank role and very small enjoyment or rewarding feeling. Its the role that most group members put the blame on if they get wiped (no matter if the DDs do a combined DPS of 20k and die in every AoE or the healer doesnt heal or give synergies). Its the role that has the most stress to taunt, CC, buff, stay alive, manage his resources etc. Its the role with absolutely zero recognition from the game while at the same time a DD looks "cool" and boasts publicly about his DPS. Its the role whose job becomes super annoying if he has to crowd control 10 trash and has 2 DDs that can't kill them. These are some of the reasons why I consider the tank role so unpopular and why there are so few tanks in the group finder.

What ZOS doesnt seem to understand is that most people play this game to have fun. But the way their dungeons were designed and the RNG was programmed, makes the game sometimes more painful than enjoyable e.g. why should a tank go back to vFrostvault if he got the helm he wanted?

Thats my opinion. Maybe wrong.

Once again, another true statement that I agree with.

This is all accurate to the core. As a Tank Role myself, as well, I can relate to this.

witchdoctor · November 2019

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Pugging a base game vet dungeon isn't bad until you get that group that has terrible DPS. Then it is very bad and you vow to never do it again.

That was the daedroth mini-boss in vEH2. The one before Dark Root. I ate the penalty. (I was on my 'full-spec' tank. They pulled Dark Root before I could hybrid up my skills. I left)

jircris11 · November 2019

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Speaking as someone whose main role is a tank and has managed to tank with pugs some veteran DLC dungeons like Fang Lair, Cradle of Shadows and Depths of Malatar (not sth special, just wanna say I am not a totally useless or inexperienced tank), I believe that the game's dungeons (mainly the DLC ones) were designed in such a way that huge pressure is put on the tank role and very small enjoyment or rewarding feeling. Its the role that most group members put the blame on if they get wiped (no matter if the DDs do a combined DPS of 20k and die in every AoE or the healer doesnt heal or give synergies). Its the role that has the most stress to taunt, CC, buff, stay alive, manage his resources etc. Its the role with absolutely zero recognition from the game while at the same time a DD looks "cool" and boasts publicly about his DPS. Its the role whose job becomes super annoying if he has to crowd control 10 trash and has 2 DDs that can't kill them. These are some of the reasons why I consider the tank role so unpopular and why there are so few tanks in the group finder.

What ZOS doesnt seem to understand is that most people play this game to have fun. But the way their dungeons were designed and the RNG was programmed, makes the game sometimes more painful than enjoyable e.g. why should a tank go back to vFrostvault if he got the helm he wanted?

Thats my opinion. Maybe wrong.

Go watch hive leaders guide to healing and guide to tanking. He did a dps as well. Not real guides more comedy and true as heck.

gatekeeper13 · November 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Speaking as someone whose main role is a tank and has managed to tank with pugs some veteran DLC dungeons like Fang Lair, Cradle of Shadows and Depths of Malatar (not sth special, just wanna say I am not a totally useless or inexperienced tank), I believe that the game's dungeons (mainly the DLC ones) were designed in such a way that huge pressure is put on the tank role and very small enjoyment or rewarding feeling. Its the role that most group members put the blame on if they get wiped (no matter if the DDs do a combined DPS of 20k and die in every AoE or the healer doesnt heal or give synergies). Its the role that has the most stress to taunt, CC, buff, stay alive, manage his resources etc. Its the role with absolutely zero recognition from the game while at the same time a DD looks "cool" and boasts publicly about his DPS. Its the role whose job becomes super annoying if he has to crowd control 10 trash and has 2 DDs that can't kill them. These are some of the reasons why I consider the tank role so unpopular and why there are so few tanks in the group finder.

What ZOS doesnt seem to understand is that most people play this game to have fun. But the way their dungeons were designed and the RNG was programmed, makes the game sometimes more painful than enjoyable e.g. why should a tank go back to vFrostvault if he got the helm he wanted?

Thats my opinion. Maybe wrong.

Go watch hive leaders guide to healing and guide to tanking. He did a dps as well. Not real guides more comedy and true as heck.

Lol, just saw the tanking guide. My thoughts exactly.

Oakenaxe · November 2019

Playing with randoms is a nice opportunity to teach and help people (and maybe learn, of course).

CompM4s · November 2019

The lack of tanks is why I made one for dailies.

Aurielle · November 2019

Playing this game *in general* is a waste of time. Nothing like ALMOST completing a challenging speed run, only to have your progress eliminated in one second by a full game crash, because the game’s stability is terrible!

ArchMikem · November 2019

Royaji wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

The main problem that no tank is found

Is directly caused by

ThePlayer wrote: »

it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready

No respectable tank will waste his time in groupfinder. Regardless of the rewards.

If you are interested in vet DLCs just find yourself a guild. Let the PUGs be PUGs without you.

I took my Tank into a vet Malatar PuG a while ago for the first time and stuck with em. We wiped several times but eventually completed it. Sure it mghtve been a waste of time to many but i like to think i spent my inconvenience in order to give three players a complete run.