To play with randoms= wasting your time

siddique

My tank leveled up undaunted in three days to 10. Queue times are a blessing.

ThePlayer

Probably for many of you the concept and function of the group finder is not clear.
I try to explain myself, in any guild you are will be always more DDs than healers or tanks, for this reason it is not always possible to form groups inside the guilds you are in (without considering the fact that maybe you want to do more runs with your alts).
For this reason the group finder in every MMO is a fundamental tool and ZOS should try to make it work in the best way, making not only technical improvements (which are not there), but also improvements that favor the game community.
So don't come and tell me to form groups with friends, because it's something I do alreadt when it's possible, but it's not always possible to do.

ForzaRammer

Royaji wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

The main problem that no tank is found

Is directly caused by

ThePlayer wrote: »

it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready

No respectable tank will waste his time in groupfinder. Regardless of the rewards.

If you are interested in vet DLCs just find yourself a guild. Let the PUGs be PUGs without you.

Or give tanks and healer more power to kick potatoes. Make it so any dps can be kicked as long as both tank and healer agree.

Edit: btw 90% being incapable is far from truth, i pug a lot on my tank, my estimate is 30% of the players i get are just pure garbage, 40% are mediocre (barely capable of clear), 30% are actually pretty good.

morrowjen

Kel wrote: »

Healers and tanks who use the group finder are GD Hero's. Don't listen to this nonsense...so many fake role issues over the years in these fourms and you're going to talk about "respectable tanks and healers"? Shame...SHAME!

Group finder needs you, tanks and healers. You are more than respectable. You are a hero. A blessing on you and your house for your service to this game.
💚

I had a healer the other night that managed to heal my laggy butt through vet COA2 hm despite the fact that I could barely control where my character would be with islands busting up and dropping us in lava. Not a single person died the entire run and I was lagging so hard on the boss fight that there's no way on Earth I should've lived through it. That healer was simply amazing and I wound up complimenting them and chatting with them afterwards.

True healers and tanks are a joy to find in a PUG. I can slot an extra skill instead of running a self-heal and my DPS goes up from the buffs and debuffs. It's nice to be able to focus on the boss instead of just staying alive and rez'ing.

Czekoludek

Pledge should offer coffers that have a chance to drop monster style mask from specific dungeons, mats like corn flowers etc (on hm difficulty chance for mask, on lower difficulty mostly mats). That way ppl would go for pledges more often

Tsar_Gekkou

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

I couldn't agree more.

It's absolutely VIRAL how bad these public VETERAN dungeons are.

You are either getting paired up with level 200's and level 80's who take 10 minutes to kill the first enemies you approach in the dungeon OR with high levels that deliberately troll your dungeon and waste your time.

The last 5 days, I have run a specific dungeon in order to farm a gear set. I have run it over 30 times, and been forced to leave groups over 15 times.

When we are already dealing with unacceptable drop rates and a mass load of other issues in the game, it gets beyond agitating and questionable when we can't even play the content that exists in a game just because of the player community.

This is the kind of stuff that has made so many people quit. This kind of stuff is exactly what ruins motivation and desire to play.

I feel you. I''ve been farming Moongrave Fane for 2 weeks or so trying to get Hollowfang lightning staffs and rings. Unless my friends are playing and want to run it with me, I can't queue up on my 30K dps or i'll never actually get into the dungeon. I'm a healer main so healing it would be no problem if the dps wasn't usually super bad. I do more damage than most of the people I get paired up with by just using lightning wall and weaving crushing shock with light attacks while wearing olorime's and jorvuld's. I stopped doing it on vet because of the absolute apes i'd get matched with, but the dps on normal is still horrific. Kujo Kethba and his anti-effort mechanic makes it even worse. Do you have 5-digit dps? Too bad, here's a dumb minigame to play while the boss is invincible, or you stand around and wait for him to be vulnerable again. Bosses that have health-gated mechanics that cause them to become invincible at certain percentages are a blight and the first boss is fine since you can have a hemo helot waiting to quickly cancel it, but Kujo Cuckba along with those stupid Resident Evil cube minigames makes it a highly unfun dungeon to run with friends, let alone pugs.

I'm currently gearing a tank so I can start learning it and I will never tank for pugs. At least with a healer I can be lazy and spam regen and orbs while watching youtube to help with the boredom, but tanking would force me to have to watch animals do nothing but light attack a few times and then stand still for 5 seconds before doing it again.

Sanguinor2

Yeah its quite sad how wrong random Groups can go. Did a random normal to Level a skill quickly, got into elden hollow 2, was queued as dps btw, never dropped below 94% of our total Group dps, tank wasnt even capable of finding the boss fight Rooms, Always coming in when boss was dead and aimlessly Walking around before that and healer didnt even heal OR dps.

Commancho

I don't tank for randoms, because mostly they are noobs, and I don't even mean only bad dps here, but also this attitude when for example they kick you from a group after babysitting them through entire dungeon for 30 mins, because you had a D/C for 30 seconds before last boss. Well, FU.

ProfessorKittyhawk

The problem is everyone seems to think they are better than they are. For every one that is competent and good you get a bunch that are terrible or subpar at best. I've run quite a few nondlc dungeons on vet and not had too bad a time. The sequel vanilla dungeons tend to be a bit rougher though and without a mostly decent group you're likely in for a bad time. Vet dlc dungeons are a different beast however. I wouldn't touch those with a ten foot pole with a pug group.

mgk

you are like people not taking the time to explain the mecanic. stop queue or dont complain, thats all.

ProfessorKittyhawk

I ran Scalecaller with a pug group once. Despite explaining the mechanics of the first ogre bosses over and over, the same things kept killing us. Sometimes explaining the mechanics isn't the problem. It's just people not caring enough to pay attention and thinking they can make things dead gooder by poking them hard enough, fast enough. Not usually the case in dlc dungeons.

mgk

Sure, but his post is like general. i just did vFV as tank with a cp 300 dd and 700 dd. it took 2h to do the dungeon ok, but all boss was dead very correctly finaly, that mean next pug will be better.

WiseSky

I did 2 vet dungeons and it went ok on PUG
Sure i waited 50 mins as an DPS but we got in and after a guy left since we did not wanna do it on hard mode another dps came and we finished the dungeon

Cirantille

Frost staff user dps are the worst.

Why? Just why? They keep getting one shotted with 12k health.

And I got an answer that he/she was RPing.

Please RP out of a dungeon and don't taunt the boss...

Royaji

mgk wrote: »

you are like people not taking the time to explain the mecanic. stop queue or dont complain, thats all.

Explaining mechanics is one thing, nobody minds doing that. But giving little Timmy a crash course on "How to stop sniping from bushes and start being an actual DD" is not something that can be done within reasonable time frame mid-run.

Snaekd

I have to admit, pugging anything even slightly harder than non-DLC vets is often rage inducing somewhat frustrating.
And it's not that there are too many inexperienced/undergeared/unskilled players - no, these make up fairly enjoyable groups. It's the sheer amount of clueless, hapless, unable to learn, complete plants with 600 CP and more that draws me there. Every now and then I just like to marvel at the absolute state of the vegetable bed that is our comunity. It's refreshing.

Kel

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I ran Scalecaller with a pug group once. Despite explaining the mechanics of the first ogre bosses over and over, the same things kept killing us. Sometimes explaining the mechanics isn't the problem. It's just people not caring enough to pay attention and thinking they can make things dead gooder by poking them hard enough, fast enough. Not usually the case in dlc dungeons.

Maybe, just maybe, because most of the narrative they see for this games mechanics, from Elite Form users to Elite YouTubers, is the best way to do content is to burn things before you see mechanics.

This is very much a case of the left hand not paying attention to what the right hand is doing. And we, as players, are 100% to blame.

If I had a penny for everytime some forum user or youtuber advocates to just burn things as fast as possible so you don't see mechanics, I could be living in Hawaii by now.

This is very much a self made prophecy. We put the hammer to the nail...complaining that it's hit is redundant. We've done this to ourselves by the nonsense we talk.

Jem_Kindheart

I have a fun time usually in group finder, I heal almost exclusively now on my 810+ account and just have the warden healer on my cp300 account. Honestly it comes down to capable dps'es which is a dice roll. Tanks are almost always legit! Thank you tanx Dps has sometimes been scary lol, lately I'm seeing a lot of dps'es doing 2k-10k...yikes. That starts to get really rough, especially on 2 version of dungeons or vets versions.

It's a mixed bag, that's maybe part of fun. Sometimes you get progress blocked in silly little norm EH2 by 2k dps that refuse to put on food even lol, and think it insane that a healer would ask very kindly if they would please put on food lol! Blue food is like 4 gold btw, that cost is covered by the first trash mob. Other days... Well I successfully pugged vDoM just now on my cp300 healer account, went just wonderfully!

Major_Lag

Jem_Kindheart wrote: »

2k dps that refuse to put on food even lol, and think it insane that a healer would ask very kindly if they would please put on food lol!

Uhh, if they are pulling such extreme DPS numbers, no food will help with that.
That's not a food problem, it's a L2P problem.

Tsar_Gekkou

Kel wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I ran Scalecaller with a pug group once. Despite explaining the mechanics of the first ogre bosses over and over, the same things kept killing us. Sometimes explaining the mechanics isn't the problem. It's just people not caring enough to pay attention and thinking they can make things dead gooder by poking them hard enough, fast enough. Not usually the case in dlc dungeons.

Maybe, just maybe, because most of the narrative they see for this games mechanics, from Elite Form users to Elite YouTubers, is the best way to do content is to burn things before you see mechanics.

This is very much a case of the left hand not paying attention to what the right hand is doing. And we, as players, are 100% to blame.

If I had a penny for everytime some forum user or youtuber advocates to just burn things as fast as possible so you don't see mechanics, I could be living in Hawaii by now.

This is very much a self made prophecy. We put the hammer to the nail...complaining that it's hit is redundant. We've done this to ourselves by the nonsense we talk.

What mostly happens is that player A tells player B not to do something that will wipe the group, and player B ignores the advice and continues doing it over and over. It usually has something to do with being unable to follow mechanics and not trying to skip mechanics through high dps. It's along the lines of saying "hey, you see that cloud of fire following you? Don't lead it into that highly flammable gas in the middle of the room or we'll all get blown up," and the person with the fire cloud following them panics and dodge rolls right into the middle of room where the flammable gas is, and continues to do it over and over even when someone explains that all they have to do is go around the explosion hazard and not belly flop right into it.

It's like during the Twins fight in vMoL where you have to run clockwise during the prayer phase and people repeatedly run counter-clockwise or through the middle and wipe the group, even though knowing your left from your right and middle is pretty simple. Like in real life, some people just refuse to listen, or are incapable of learning. It really do be like that sometimes.

CAB_Life

I have an entire series dedicated to “Fun with Pugs”, where myself and three strangers routinely tackle the hardest vet dungeons, so I respectfully disagree. That said, I make sure that I am mentally and emotionally prepared to carry, lead, swap sets, roles, whatever before I even queue for a daily random. Oftentimes we have to be the change and inspiration we seek.

I do agree that the rewards are mostly throwaway at this point though, and that you can get more transmute crystals through an hour of PVP/ battlegrounds than through doing all three dungeons + one random each day. The value proposition for PVE dungeoneering is low—especially once you’ve collected whatever sets and monster helms you need.

Major_Lag

Here's a data point:

I did some serious gear farming today, using group finder for normal dungeons (queued as real tank).

In a total of about 15-20 runs, I saw group DPS ranging from about 9k (yikes!) to 65k.
On average, it was about 20-30k, which is really really bad... only about 1/2...2/3rds of a single good damage dealer.

So on average, PUGging normals seems to be a waste of time, alright.
Especially when considering the amount of time wasted on dealing with the broken group finder. "Someone declined..."

BTW: dear frost staff users - you taunt it, you tank it.

Araneae6537

Major_Lag wrote: »

Here's a data point:

I did some serious gear farming today, using group finder for normal dungeons (queued as real tank).

In a total of about 15-20 runs, I saw group DPS ranging from about 9k (yikes!) to 65k.
On average, it was about 20-30k, which is really really bad... only about 1/2...2/3rds of a single good damage dealer.

So on average, PUGging normals seems to be a waste of time, alright.
Especially when considering the amount of time wasted on dealing with the broken group finder. "Someone declined..."

BTW: dear frost staff users - you taunt it, you tank it.

Normals are for learning or casual fun runs — why in the world would you expect serious DPS in normal dungeons??? Someone familiar with dungeons and doing >20k DPS could certainly do vet dungeons if they wished. A better question might be why were YOU in normal dungeons where you get less drops and, by your own metrics, it was a “waste of time”...

Curious_Death

ThePlayer wrote: »

I try to complete the random vet dlc dungeons with all my chars, 16 in total, when I play with my alts tanks it is possible and I can easily find, after the 3rd attempt, a capable group; playing as a healer is already more complicated and not at all easy as DDs.
I do not speak of the difficulties of the dungeons, those I have already made all of them and my dps is adequate, perhaps not perfect with everyone, but I pass the +30/35k with everyone in the tests dps;
The main problem that no tank is found, the key system and the loot fails to attract enough players, in addition to this it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready, except those who come from the console can succeed.
Now with time i will be able to complete the dlc vet dungeons with all my chars, that's for sure, but then I'll go back to queue for veteran? I think no, nothing drives me to do it.
ZOS are you planning to change something? like:
1) final loot gold, craft materials gold for example.
2) special loot for the role that is missing in the queue.

P.S. ZOS thanks to you i become more and more toxic with randoms, but in reality i am good

When i was trying to TANK for PUG's .. it became sooo painful that i rather quit group than "carry" this bag of trash on my back... WHY 1000 cp tank join 100-200 cp DD's with blue random items? or 1000 cp healer join this! maybe thats why everything fails? there's no limitations... high CP needs to be tired or called a noob by 100 cp ? O_o ??

Also empty cyrodiil some loosers log in morning and PVDoor whole map when no1 defends? wheres limitation?

ZoS implement new nerfs that lowers even for best DD's dmg by 15-20%! WHAT ABOUT NEWBIES? they do now below 10k.. this game is getting sooo painful to play... they lower and lower DMG and survivality??

ZOS when u guve something good to customers... and then u take it back... even slowly... u still "TAKE IT BACK".... no1 likes to loose good and enjoyable things in return of trash!(new "balance")

LuxLunae

ThePlayer wrote: »

I try to complete the random vet dlc dungeons with all my chars, 16 in total, when I play with my alts tanks it is possible and I can easily find, after the 3rd attempt, a capable group; playing as a healer is already more complicated and not at all easy as DDs.
I do not speak of the difficulties of the dungeons, those I have already made all of them and my dps is adequate, perhaps not perfect with everyone, but I pass the +30/35k with everyone in the tests dps;
The main problem that no tank is found, the key system and the loot fails to attract enough players, in addition to this it often happens players with 300 CPs that 90% of cases are not ready, except those who come from the console can succeed.
Now with time i will be able to complete the dlc vet dungeons with all my chars, that's for sure, but then I'll go back to queue for veteran? I think no, nothing drives me to do it.
ZOS are you planning to change something? like:
1) final loot gold, craft materials gold for example.
2) special loot for the role that is missing in the queue.

P.S. ZOS thanks to you i become more and more toxic with randoms, but in reality i am good

I played as tank before... but then DPS was always bad.. so now we 4DPS that stuff.. every man for himself..

Tolino

To the tanks and Healer annoyed here about bad dds. This is not just a dd problem. There are also a lot of bad tanks and heals ...

5cript

Dungeons are decided by the dps more often than not.
A 14k hp, 15k dps clown cannot be carried.

But in my experience its not a major issue, its just sometimes that dps aren't good enough for the difficulty.
And I do not expect to run through everything ez pz.

Royaji

Tolino wrote: »

To the tanks and Healer annoyed here about bad dds. This is not just a dd problem. There are also a lot of bad tanks and heals ...

Good DD can carry a bad tank/healer/another DD. Healers can grudgingly swap skills and carry a bad DD. Tanks are completely screwed.

No matter how good of a tank you are, you can't carry (or at least make the situation more bearable) when your group has 10k combined DPS.

Major_Lag

ErinM31 wrote: »

A better question might be why were YOU in normal dungeons where you get less drops and, by your own metrics, it was a “waste of time”...

Not sure about the drop rates, but vet dungeons take longer to run - and with PUGs, a successful clear is far from guaranteed.

During yesterday's farming, I've only encountered 1 PUG that failed to clear a normal dungeon (nBH) - the rest of the group consisted of 3 complete potatoes who could not fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Fake healer + 2 fake DDs.
They wiped on the trashmobs near the NPC merchant, after struggling for a good few minutes to clear the trash up to that point. No AoEs, no heals, no nothing, just spam light attacks.
At that point I left, because it was obvious that this will get us nowhere. I hope that the groupfinder found them a fake tank as the replacement, so that the group would then be populated entirely with fake roles

In any case, tanking basegame normals is easy AF... perfect for when I want to take a break from running more challenging content.
In fact, that's one of the reasons why I PUG them - it's less effort than soloing them, even if the group DPS is lower. And running in a PUG means more drops than when soloing, anyway.

ThePlayer

According to my personal opinion, all vet dlc dungeons should have a daily quest/pledge and a better loot.
One of the main reasons i am no longer ESO+ is this incredible waste of time completing vet dlc dungeons with my alts.
Today after waiting 32 minutes (as you can see from the pic), in queues like DD, i entered one of the dungeons listed with a tank + DD both 300 CPs, the DD could also be fine but the tank died with the mobs....and i leave.
It not happen once but almost always in random run.
I have nothing against randoms players, but something has to be changed in the loot and make sure that players who want to play vet dlc have already completed the easiest veteran dungeons.

P.S. Please not start to find the super solution and write to go pre-made, it not works always, players have to use the game system group finder.

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