Global auction house verses limited traders

Tigerseye · November 2019

pelle412 wrote: »

In an alternative trade system, sales taxes would have to be much higher to maintain inflation and I'd just get much less from my sales.

WoW's auction house only takes a 5% cut.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

In an alternative trade system, sales taxes would have to be much higher to maintain inflation and I'd just get much less from my sales.

WoW's auction house only takes a 5% cut.

Can't compare WOWs economy to Eso's economy. On the surface they seem similar but its in the details that creates the differences. And without the behind the scenes stats from both games you really can't draw a comparison.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

Zulera301 wrote: »

No. there is no need for an auction house. There never has been a need for an auction house, and there remains no need for an auction house.

Most of the people clamouring against the current system are people who have never run guilds and so they don't understand how much time, money (virtual or otherwise) and effort goes into maintaining them. sure it seems like they move a lot of money and it's easy to speculate that these people are swimming in gold, and maybe they are. but as someone who is in several prominent guilds and has contacts and acquaintances in several others, most of them end up paying out of pocket for the competitive trader spots.

no guild has ever "taken over an entire zone", much less cornered the market on any particular item. The items that are easiest to manipulate price-wise are some of the older rare motifs that no one farms anymore, but that has nothing to do with guild traders or AH. people are just salty that they actually have to put a little effort in to make sales rather than just sit on their butts and get paid. heaven forbid you actually do any work in a capitalist society.

To be fair they are correct in that the current system is not a true capitalist system. There ARE barriers to entry and the sales opportunities are restricted. So there are valid points that the current system could use some changes at the very least.

Tigerseye · November 2019

Zulera301 wrote: »

No. there is no need for an auction house. There never has been a need for an auction house, and there remains no need for an auction house.

Most of the people clamouring against the current system are people who have never run guilds and so they don't understand how much time, money (virtual or otherwise) and effort goes into maintaining them. sure it seems like they move a lot of money and it's easy to speculate that these people are swimming in gold, and maybe they are. but as someone who is in several prominent guilds and has contacts and acquaintances in several others, most of them end up paying out of pocket for the competitive trader spots.

no guild has ever "taken over an entire zone", much less cornered the market on any particular item. The items that are easiest to manipulate price-wise are some of the older rare motifs that no one farms anymore, but that has nothing to do with guild traders or AH. people are just salty that they actually have to put a little effort in to make sales rather than just sit on their butts and get paid. heaven forbid you actually do any work in a capitalist society.

It's supposed to be a game, not a "capitalist society".

Also, in the actual capitalist society we live in, it is a lot easier to buy things than it is in this game.

I get that there are pros and cons to both systems, but buying mats in this game continues to be a nightmare.

kargen27 · November 2019

Commancho wrote: »

Many people writing here negative opinions run trading guilds and they are afraid of free trade, because they would stop swimming in the gold and many of them has invested real money to estabilish their guilds.They would be not able any more to speculate the prices or take over trade in entire zones either. I have never seen a multiplayer game where AH would cause any damage unless you could sell for a real money.

There is one reason why ESO will never have an auction house - it's completly beyond their programming capabilities and computing power of their servers. I mean it has taken them years to add a stupid search into guild stores and we are talking here about platform which would run milions of transactions every day lol

You have concerns that a guild can take over an entire zone and your solution is a system where four people could monopolize rare items across the entire game. The games I played that had a global auction house did have players that did exactly that. They would find a rare item that was desired and easily grab them all. On the other end of the spectrum common items were offered so near vendor price that it was pointless to try and sell them. One player putting months of effort into taking over the traders in a zone couldn't manage to get all the traders in that zone and was only able to control a part of it for one week. Your worry about a guild controlling an entire zone is unfounded.

The vendor system needs some attention and I hope it gets an quality of life upgrade. I would still like to see a central board in each zone that would list all the items the traders in that zone has. You couldn't buy from that site and it wouldn't give you the price. It would only tell you what traders have the item you want. People in a hurry could just go to one trader and be done. People wanting a deal would have to shop around.

Players that are swimming in gold now would be swimming in gold with a global auction house because they are offering items that other players want to buy. The only thing that would hinder their efforts to make gold would be if they relied on selling common items as those prices would be so low they wouldn't be profitable. This problem would have an even bigger affect on players that don't invest a lot of time into trading now. They need the stable market the vendors provide.

ZOS_GregoryV · November 2019

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts due to Baiting and Flaming, we must remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil and constructive, as well as withing the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. Baiting and Flaming other members is a violation of the rules we have in place and can result in disciplinary action being taken against one's own account. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a moment to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Aurie · November 2019

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Milo wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?

And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?

If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.

I don't think it's necessary or clever to be the self-appointed grammar police, do you? Many people on these forums don't speak English as their native language, but still manage to do a lot better than many of those whose native language is English.

.

FlopsyPrince · November 2019

Zulera301 wrote: »

No. there is no need for an auction house. There never has been a need for an auction house, and there remains no need for an auction house.

Most of the people clamouring against the current system are people who have never run guilds and so they don't understand how much time, money (virtual or otherwise) and effort goes into maintaining them. sure it seems like they move a lot of money and it's easy to speculate that these people are swimming in gold, and maybe they are. but as someone who is in several prominent guilds and has contacts and acquaintances in several others, most of them end up paying out of pocket for the competitive trader spots.

no guild has ever "taken over an entire zone", much less cornered the market on any particular item. The items that are easiest to manipulate price-wise are some of the older rare motifs that no one farms anymore, but that has nothing to do with guild traders or AH. people are just salty that they actually have to put a little effort in to make sales rather than just sit on their butts and get paid. heaven forbid you actually do any work in a capitalist society.

Are you trying to make the case against the current system? We don't need trade guilds if the price is that high!

barney2525 · November 2019

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Milo wrote: »

Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.

It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.

Sure you can.

It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.

The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.

Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.

If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.

IMHO

You think changing the whole trader system would be a "Up-Date"???
ROFLMAO!

It would be millions of coding changes. It would be a total rework of base game mechanics.
They cant even get GF coded right, and you think they can just flip a switch and, TaDa, We have a GAH? Lol!!!

Once again, lets review GAH....
1. GM's DO NOT GET RICH running a guild. Most spend millions of their own gold to support it!
2. A GAH can not remove almost a BILLION in gold a WEEK in a gold sink! A good gold sink is necessary for a good economy. Period!
3. GAH is easy to manipulate and corner. Any one who disagrees, I challenge you to corner the "Ta" market. Travel to ALL 200+ vendors, buy ALL "Ta's", Log screens and zone screens and travel time, and then......... You can only sell in 5 guilds or zone chat. Can't be done.
4. Wow has what, a 100 shards? ESO has ONE server per platform. Imagine EVERYONE in ESO listing on a GAH? That is what , 1-2 million listings? All being accessed by 100,000 players at once, all zones, all players? Not a happy image....
5. The last one, ZoS has stated that this is the system they wanted. Yes it needs improvements, but no, it does not need to be not replaced.

I personally love the system. My best trade guild has been here since April 2014, and never charged a shilling. None of my guilds "Require" a single copper. Just my 2 drakes! Huzzah!

TLDR: To think ZoS can just "ADD" a GAH with a update is just being silly!!!

6.0 was an update. You are belittling terminology? Grasping at straws I see.

Ans 1 - You say 'let's review GAH', and immediately talk about Traders. If you want to review GAH, talk about GAH.

Ans 2 - That is just your opinion - the part being that Billions of Gold NEED to be removed. Fact is an economy stabilizes itself. If people have lots of money, prices simply go higher. The economy goes merrily on its way, with everything being fair and equal to all. You have to understand the concept : There is no such thing as a single established value for an item. In one economy an ingot may be reasonably priced at 10 gold. In a different economy, it may be reasonably priced at 1000 gold. The economy will stabilize to level of gold available.

Ans 3 - Wrong. Only specific rare items can be cornered in either GAH or Trader system. The GAH is available to Literally every player in the game. Your example is silly. No one wants to corner the Ta market in a GAH or Trader. Awhile back someone claimed if the GAH came in, they would buy All the cornflower and then resell them for 5000 gold each. Which is really dumb. First, no one would buy his cornflower since it simply takes time to go out and find your own. Second, he is then committed to buying all cornflower every day, every time it is put up by the THOUSANDS of players the GAH serves. He would be losing a Lot of money and never would sell a single cornflower at 5000 g.

Ans 4 - I have no idea what Wow has. Never played it. Have no idea what a shard is. Last I checked we were talking ESO. Yes - There would be thousands of listings. That's the whole point on how prices stay reasonable. Other MMOs seem to handle the GAH just fine.

Ans 5 - And yet you provide no basis for what You claim Zos has said, nor have you provided any information about WHEN they said it. If it was 5 years ago, and they wanted to see how the Trader system would work, then it makes sense that they would make such a statement at that time. If they haven't said it recently, it is irrelevant. Every few months we get changes to the game. Just because it began with the Trader System does not mean the system cannot be completely changed.

IMHO

barney2525 · November 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.

What you suggest is just a dumb goodies exchange, this maybe more effective to buyer, but less profitable to seller, which means there will be less actual sellers and there will be ton of crap sold by everybody.

Thanks god, AH most probably will cause server meltdown, so we won't see this boring thingie in nearest time.

The only thing I can figure, based on your response, is that you have no idea how an actual AH works.

You want to make 'visiting places all over Tamriel' worthwhile? Complete Pathfinder achievements. Having to waste hours moving to the same 20 spots in zones all over the map is NOT ' visiting places all over Tamriel '.

The bottom line is - The GAH allows ALL players to sell whatever they want, whenever they want, quickly and efficiently. The Trader system does NOT allow all players to sell, is Not quick for the buyer to find what they are looking for, and is NOT efficient in any way.

The experience of using the Trader system to find something can be defined as - IMHO - ' A Frustrating Waste of Time and Effort '.

I played WoW and I highly disliked GAH. Even more, that GAH was one of the reasons why I quit. Again, what you propose turns fun and interesting trading system in ESO in "quick and efficient exchange". This is just another layer of simplification. Just look at how popular WoW Classic is. It's not only about nostalgia, it is about game which is not over-simplified to became tasteless.

Now, let's face truth. Trade guilds are always recruiting and there are ton of trading guilds which have laughably small fees/requirements. Like REALLY small. Something like 10k trading requirement per week, If somebody wants to trade he can easily join any of this guilds. Sell at least 1 roe or 1 hakeijo per week and you are good to go.

First off, a GAH is one reason why you quit a game? Seriously? What did the place where you can buy and sell anytime, without restriction, do to you that you didn't like? And why would I look at WoW classic? I looked at WoW when it originally came out years ago and said ' no thanks'. I have no interest in examining it again. You seem to make a lot of assumptions that you think are facts.

People come to these threads all the time claiming their friends quit the game when they found out how trading works here. Why should that be believable but someone leaving a game with an AH should not?

People always dislike aspects of the trading system. Just visit a game's forums.

You say the current system is "fun and interesting". Except that is it NOT FUN for a large number of players. Just because something is 'Fun' for You, does not mean that it must therefore be 'Fun' for everyone.

The same can be said of PvP, Trials, Vet dungeons, questing, RP, etc. I personally enjoy the "shopping around" aspect of this trading system. I find enough stuff that I can keep my 30 slots filled in my guilds, but mostly I sell stuff that's worth between 300-1000 gold.

The basic concept of ANY system is to give players a method of buying items they want and selling items they want. THAT is the Purpose of whatever system is put in place. The Purpose is not for 'Fun'. The Purpose is essentially a Game Mechanic. If your 'Fun' is basically messing around with the trader system, then you are missing a lot of what ESO has to offer.

People can buy the items they want and sell the items they want in this game. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want in other games, and going out and getting it myself is far harder than in ESO.

Now let's face Real truth. Your belittling people for playing the game is insulting. Many players do NOT obtain a perfect roe every week. Neither do they find a hakejo to sell. The requirement that you Must join a trading guild and pay in order to be able to just sell stuff you happen to pick up while playing the game is unfair at the outset. Buying and selling should be a basic part of the game with no strings attached.

I'm pretty sure any Central Market out there has some sort of limitation, like taxes (35% in BDO, for example), a limit on the number of items you can list (10 in Secret World Legends), and limits to drops to force you to use the Central Market (GW2, for example). They are just different strings.

How about we apply the same point of view to PvP. Have the game deny players the right to PvP unless they join a PvP only Guild. And those guilds can set whatever level/dps/CP/etc requirements (as well as monetary requirements) or else the player is Not allowed into the PvP areas.

That's fair, right?

IMHO

Are you suggesting that we eliminate direct player to player trading like BDO does? Because that would be comparable to your PvP guild analogy.

Because right now, you can trade outside of a trading guild, but you will be less effective. And you can PvP outside of being in a PvP guild, but you will also be less effective.

Edit: Fixed a quote.

Im not handy with the edit feature, so I'll try and keep this concise, since you made several responses.

First, yeah, maybe some people don't particularly like an MMOs economic system, but only here in these forums have I ever heard stuff like ' a GAH was one of the reasons I stopped playing that game'. And of course, there is no explanation to the statement. It's just a blanket statement.

Second - PvP, Trials, Vet dungeons, etc - These are all things that are Options. If you choose Not to participate, you are not losing out on much - because the items you get from them are FOR those types of areas. If you don't do those areas, you don't care about those items.

Third - " People can buy the items they want and sell the items they want in this game " - NO THEY CAN NOT. This IS the issue. People who are not in a trading guild can NOT sell their items. The only option they have is zone chat, which means you can ONLY reach players at the time You are online and they Happen to be online, in the same zone, at the same time. That is NOT selling. That is desperation. The Trader System FORCES player to join a guild IF they want to sell items. Common sense tells us if the guild has no fees it probably has No trader spot. So at that point you are only selling to members of the Guild - Not all the players in the game.

It amazes me the contradictions the pro-trader view has. They tell us how much it costs to run a guild, how a guild leader may have to pay out of his own pocket, how hard it is and how expensive it is for the guild - And then they tell the players " There's LOTS of trader guilds that have no fees ". Makes no sense.

Fourth - just because a particular GAH has some restrictions is Not an issue. I don't play BDO - 35% sounds awfully high to me - I play Archeage. Yeah there is a tax, depending on the value, but once the value of the item is over 100g there is no additional tax. And its only a couple or so gold on 100. SWTOR has a limit of 50 items listed at the same time. Haven't played a game where there was less than that. And as soon as an item sells you can put something new in place.

This last bit about restrictions SOME games have is all ticky-tac. Really doesn't have any bearing on the core discussion.
Fact - Trader system does NOT allow players to get their item for sale out in front of Every Player in the game. The only players that even see the item for sale are those that happen to find a specific Trader. Conversely, a GAH allows Every player to have their item out in front of Every other player in the game, quickly and efficiently.

Glurin · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

Ans 2 - That is just your opinion - the part being that Billions of Gold NEED to be removed. Fact is an economy stabilizes itself. If people have lots of money, prices simply go higher. The economy goes merrily on its way, with everything being fair and equal to all.

Except for the people who have little or no money of course. Not to mention every source of income outside of farming the extremely rare items becomes completely fruitless.

barney2525 wrote: »

Awhile back someone claimed if the GAH came in, they would buy All the cornflower and then resell them for 5000 gold each. Which is really dumb. First, no one would buy his cornflower since it simply takes time to go out and find your own. Second, he is then committed to buying all cornflower every day, every time it is put up by the THOUSANDS of players the GAH serves. He would be losing a Lot of money and never would sell a single cornflower at 5000 g.

You must be new to MMOs.

Scubbs · November 2019

There's an old saying.

If it isn't broken don't fix it.

JKorr · November 2019

Commancho wrote: »

Many people writing here negative opinions run trading guilds and they are afraid of free trade, because they would stop swimming in the gold and many of them has invested real money to estabilish their guilds.They would be not able any more to speculate the prices or take over trade in entire zones either. I have never seen a multiplayer game where AH would cause any damage unless you could sell for a real money.

There is one reason why ESO will never have an auction house - it's completly beyond their programming capabilities and computing power of their servers. I mean it has taken them years to add a stupid search into guild stores and we are talking here about platform which would run milions of transactions every day lol

In all of these threads, no one has ever produced evidence that any gm of any reputable guild is "swimming in gold" or that they run a trading guild because it is the easiest/best way to get enough gold to swim in. Just like the "most guilds require 165k dues" statements, where is the information coming from?

Dagobert · November 2019

Scubbs wrote: »

There's an old saying.

If it isn't broken don't fix it.

If you don't own some DLC/ESO+ you can't go to a zone where there are trader npcs, which is a paywall, which means the system is broken as not everyone can buy from them.

barney2525 · November 2019

Glurin wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Ans 2 - That is just your opinion - the part being that Billions of Gold NEED to be removed. Fact is an economy stabilizes itself. If people have lots of money, prices simply go higher. The economy goes merrily on its way, with everything being fair and equal to all.

Except for the people who have little or no money of course. Not to mention every source of income outside of farming the extremely rare items becomes completely fruitless.

barney2525 wrote: »

Awhile back someone claimed if the GAH came in, they would buy All the cornflower and then resell them for 5000 gold each. Which is really dumb. First, no one would buy his cornflower since it simply takes time to go out and find your own. Second, he is then committed to buying all cornflower every day, every time it is put up by the THOUSANDS of players the GAH serves. He would be losing a Lot of money and never would sell a single cornflower at 5000 g.

You must be new to MMOs.

Wow, you make no sense. Extremely rare items increase in value in a gold-rich economy, just as anything else does. If it makes money farming the item in a low gold economy, it will make money farming the item in a gold-rich economy.

People who have 'little or no money' is a relative term, depending on the economy. You seem to want to fix hard prices to things, with the idea that something that can be currently purchased for 10k will always have the 10k price tag, regardless of the economy. That is simply not true.

And, your last statement simply proves how extremely wrong your whole position is.

barney2525 · November 2019

The whole issue can be dealt with very simply and easily. Obviously, the pro-traders believe that if a GAH was introduced, the traders immediately must go away. That's ridiculous. Extremes are not the only options.

Initially, nothing changes. Simply do an update that Adds the option of using a GAH. Both the Trader system and the GAH can be used normally, depending on the player's choice. And evaluate things over a couple months.

Maybe one becomes the player's choice and the other is not used, so you can remove it. Maybe both have constant use so both simply remain a part of the game. I know the pro-traders will hate this idea, because I believe many of them even believe the GAH would end up being the preferred method of the majority of players.

It would not be difficult to add the GAH to the game.

IMHO

Steelriver · November 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.

What you suggest is just a dumb goodies exchange, this maybe more effective to buyer, but less profitable to seller, which means there will be less actual sellers and there will be ton of crap sold by everybody.

Thanks god, AH most probably will cause server meltdown, so we won't see this boring thingie in nearest time.

Give me a break so you would like it if Wal-mart took products and randomly put them in stores all over the United states and told you where nothing could be found for sure or for the lowest price. Then you had to drive all around the country trying to find one item you wanted. So you could see the land?
There would not be less sellers i know ton of people who don't sell because it is a waste of time if you don't devote your life to being in a trade guild. This is the worst System i have ever seen in an MMO. PEople who don't agree are the ones makeing money hand over fist because they can afford to live on ESO.

JN_Slevin · November 2019

Oh boy another one of those

First off, in my years playing this game i have never heard of a guild that has a 150k fee.

Maybe you have misunderstood the requirements, there are some Guilds that require you to sell 150k a week. But those are the top of the line, best of the best craglorn frontrow guilds.
And if you think you deserve to be there wihout participating in the guilds weekly payments, to secure THIS particular spot then frankly you do not deserve to be in there. Plus they are not the "standart" model for Guilds. I have seen lots of "small" Guilds try to get there and paying the astronomous bid. But then they realize they do not get that back. People have the mindset of: "one week in craglorn and i don't need to pay anything anymore". Thats wrong. The guilds make the spot good, not the spot the guilds.

And if somebody would make a guild with a 150k weekly fee, it would die down hard pretty fast. Because even if you find those 10 people willing to pay for that, you do not get the spot that these people demand, since they paid for it.

There are ALOT of Guilds with low to none requirements. Atleast on PCEU. Yeah, those have maybe not the best spot. But i don't think it's fair to think that you are entitled to a guild with no requirements on a really good spot.

As for swimming in gold. Most guildmasters have been struggling to get the gold back they invested. They do not even come out at 0. Imagine that. You devote yourself to a community of roughly 450 people, need to be there for questions and concerns of those people, think of a way to sustain yourself, have no help whatsoever from the Developer / Admin side of things. And then you have to pay for that.

Guildmasters choose to work, sometimes even pay for it. And people in this thread diminish all the hard work they are doing. I do not know the insights of every guild, but im willing to bet, that this system has "burned" more gold of individuals than it has given them.

Now do i think its perfect? No. It has its flaws. But i like it. The fact that there are price discussions, and thinking about what price you go for what item in what spot is awesome!

I would really hate, if they would do an auctionhouse, because some people cried loud enough. I do not think it would be good for the game, its economy or communty, to swap theses systems. Its engaging, its fun. If you don't like it, go and shout in zone chat. Its not like ZOS restricts you from buying outside it. You do not even have to pay ANY taxes, if you shout and meet people for trades.

And the fact that the community has to come together to overcome obstacles is another thing thats good about this system. Sure it can be frustrating if you do not get your trader. But it also prevents it from getting boring.

Commancho · November 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

You have concerns that a guild can take over an entire zone and your solution is a system where four people could monopolize rare items across the entire game. The games I played that had a global auction house did have players that did exactly that. They would find a rare item that was desired and easily grab them all.

Ever heard of TTC?

JKorr · November 2019

Steelriver wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.

What you suggest is just a dumb goodies exchange, this maybe more effective to buyer, but less profitable to seller, which means there will be less actual sellers and there will be ton of crap sold by everybody.

Thanks god, AH most probably will cause server meltdown, so we won't see this boring thingie in nearest time.

Give me a break so you would like it if Wal-mart took products and randomly put them in stores all over the United states and told you where nothing could be found for sure or for the lowest price. Then you had to drive all around the country trying to find one item you wanted. So you could see the land?
There would not be less sellers i know ton of people who don't sell because it is a waste of time if you don't devote your life to being in a trade guild. This is the worst System i have ever seen in an MMO. PEople who don't agree are the ones makeing money hand over fist because they can afford to live on ESO.

:snicker: Well, that's a first. I've never been accused of living on ESO before...mostly because my full time 8 hours a day 5 days a week job kinda takes up a lot of time.... Add in the hour commute to and home from work, and its less time. Being an adult costs more time, cause there are no little elves/fairies/goblins who appear in your home to do your laundry, take care of errands like grocery/shopping in general, cooking, cleaning, yard work and all the rest of what "adulting" requires.

Little tiny bit of difference between RL driving around to find stuff you want to buy and jumping on your horse/giant wolf/bear/magically powered critter shaped pile of rocks/steampunk spider/giant flea/whatever you ride and trotting around the countryside to get to merchants. One actually costs RL money, subjects you to normal dangers of traffic, and takes even more time away from gaming. The other is actually part of the game, and allows you to acquire more mats while traveling so possibly paying for the in-game time it takes you to get to the next merchant.

I'm currently in 4 guilds. One of them is specifically a trading guild. NONE have dues. None of them require a specific sales amount. All of them have a trader. Since I do like to support my guilds, I have no problem with the voluntary raffles that 3 of them do. When I get ambitious enough to bother selling stuff, its usually mats that I've picked up while running around questing, and the many duplicate recipes I pick up or get from doing writs. I can get around 65k from selling in 1 guild. Think what I could do if I actually put a little effort into it. I don't consider that I'm "wasting my life" by being in a trading guild [not "devoting my life], and selling stuff when I feel like it. Between my intermittent selling and doing writs and master writs, I have about 4 million gold in the bank. Would I make more if there was an auction house? I seriously doubt it, because I don't have the time to live in the game to do the selling/buying/flipping that an auction house would inevitably need, because there are players who will find ways to exploit anything and they would definitely have a ball with a global auction house.

starkerealm · November 2019

Grimm13 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.

The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.

Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.

And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?

That's a sucker bet. Even in a GAH, there are many more people who don't use the trading system than do.

Then you would have no problems in supporting a survey of players that still log in to find out how they feel on the matter. Without a survey to find out their opinion it is conjecture to say one way or the other.

I wouldn't, however I wouldn't suggest you trying that, because it wouldn't be meaningful.

First, you can't. You could harass people as they log in, but that wouldn't really be the same thing as actually conducting a reasonable survey. Further, you'd be limited to a very small subset of players logging in, as you'd be limited to one shard of one zone. If you're thinking of using someplace like the Mournhold wayshrine to filter players, then you're already filtering players who are at an increased likelihood of being there to engage in the trader system, and being engaged. Remember, what I was saying was that most players really don't care about this, and aside from some kind of krill sample, you really cannot get input from players who don't pass through the trade hubs.

Second, it would be heavily skewed by self selection, and we're looking at disengagement statistics here. So, when you say, "would you have time for a survey on the guild trader system?" And someone walks away, that's more likely to represent one of the people who doesn't care, but you can't really consider that input as important, because you cannot determine the factors that went into their decision.

So, if ZOS decided to do a survey on login, sure, cool. Unfortunately, as players, we do not have the tools to perform that survey in game.

JKorr · November 2019

Commancho wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

You have concerns that a guild can take over an entire zone and your solution is a system where four people could monopolize rare items across the entire game. The games I played that had a global auction house did have players that did exactly that. They would find a rare item that was desired and easily grab them all.

Ever heard of TTC?

The voluntary you actually have to upload your information thingie? Yeah. I heard of it. Only one of my guilds's gms use it. So three vendors don't get added to the data. If individuals choose to run it, that is their decision, but it isn't mandatory. So TTC isn't really that great of a thing, imo. Not to mention the delay between updates; if you're depending on ttc, and someone wanders by the trader before you see the item and buy it, you're pretty much out of luck. It isn't the same as a global auctionhouse that instantly lists items.

Grimm13 · November 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.

The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.

Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.

And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?

That's a sucker bet. Even in a GAH, there are many more people who don't use the trading system than do.

Then you would have no problems in supporting a survey of players that still log in to find out how they feel on the matter. Without a survey to find out their opinion it is conjecture to say one way or the other.

I wouldn't, however I wouldn't suggest you trying that, because it wouldn't be meaningful.

First, you can't. You could harass people as they log in, but that wouldn't really be the same thing as actually conducting a reasonable survey. Further, you'd be limited to a very small subset of players logging in, as you'd be limited to one shard of one zone. If you're thinking of using someplace like the Mournhold wayshrine to filter players, then you're already filtering players who are at an increased likelihood of being there to engage in the trader system, and being engaged. Remember, what I was saying was that most players really don't care about this, and aside from some kind of krill sample, you really cannot get input from players who don't pass through the trade hubs.

Second, it would be heavily skewed by self selection, and we're looking at disengagement statistics here. So, when you say, "would you have time for a survey on the guild trader system?" And someone walks away, that's more likely to represent one of the people who doesn't care, but you can't really consider that input as important, because you cannot determine the factors that went into their decision.

So, if ZOS decided to do a survey on login, sure, cool. Unfortunately, as players, we do not have the tools to perform that survey in game.

Clearly it's ZOS that has to do the survey. Only ZOS can have one done at login. The support I was talking about is in getting ZOS to do one that is meaningful. Not a small targeted survey by email.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

Steelriver wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.

What you suggest is just a dumb goodies exchange, this maybe more effective to buyer, but less profitable to seller, which means there will be less actual sellers and there will be ton of crap sold by everybody.

Thanks god, AH most probably will cause server meltdown, so we won't see this boring thingie in nearest time.

Give me a break so you would like it if Wal-mart took products and randomly put them in stores all over the United states and told you where nothing could be found for sure or for the lowest price. Then you had to drive all around the country trying to find one item you wanted. So you could see the land?
There would not be less sellers i know ton of people who don't sell because it is a waste of time if you don't devote your life to being in a trade guild. This is the worst System i have ever seen in an MMO. PEople who don't agree are the ones makeing money hand over fist because they can afford to live on ESO.

If your going to do a real world comparison you shouldn't use walmart as your example. ESO's system is more comparable to what community stores were before Walmart showed up. Yes you had to travel a bit more to get what you wanted and sometimes you dont find it. A GTS is more like Ebay or Amazon.

But really how people behave and shop IRL isn't how they act/shop in a game. Mainly because the game is a luxury and not a necessity. In most cases trading in a game does not have real world consequences. So there is little risk in the venture. Except in the case of crown trading (imo ZOS shouldn't have allowed this but that ship sailed ages ago). But really if a trade goes bad except in rare instances it just takes you more time, effort, and a bit of luck to get something you traded/lost a second or third time. When your shopping in eso you are doing so to avoid such work.

Just something to think about.

idk · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Milo wrote: »

Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.

It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.

Sure you can.

It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.

The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.

Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.

If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.

IMHO

You think changing the whole trader system would be a "Up-Date"???
ROFLMAO!

It would be millions of coding changes. It would be a total rework of base game mechanics.
They cant even get GF coded right, and you think they can just flip a switch and, TaDa, We have a GAH? Lol!!!

Once again, lets review GAH....
1. GM's DO NOT GET RICH running a guild. Most spend millions of their own gold to support it!
2. A GAH can not remove almost a BILLION in gold a WEEK in a gold sink! A good gold sink is necessary for a good economy. Period!
3. GAH is easy to manipulate and corner. Any one who disagrees, I challenge you to corner the "Ta" market. Travel to ALL 200+ vendors, buy ALL "Ta's", Log screens and zone screens and travel time, and then......... You can only sell in 5 guilds or zone chat. Can't be done.
4. Wow has what, a 100 shards? ESO has ONE server per platform. Imagine EVERYONE in ESO listing on a GAH? That is what , 1-2 million listings? All being accessed by 100,000 players at once, all zones, all players? Not a happy image....
5. The last one, ZoS has stated that this is the system they wanted. Yes it needs improvements, but no, it does not need to be not replaced.

I personally love the system. My best trade guild has been here since April 2014, and never charged a shilling. None of my guilds "Require" a single copper. Just my 2 drakes! Huzzah!

TLDR: To think ZoS can just "ADD" a GAH with a update is just being silly!!!

6.0 was an update. You are belittling terminology? Grasping at straws I see.

They used the term up-date meaning an update to the trading system. Anyone who read what they replied to would find this very obvious. It seems they are not the one grasping at straws.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

The whole issue can be dealt with very simply and easily. Obviously, the pro-traders believe that if a GAH was introduced, the traders immediately must go away. That's ridiculous. Extremes are not the only options.

Initially, nothing changes. Simply do an update that Adds the option of using a GAH. Both the Trader system and the GAH can be used normally, depending on the player's choice. And evaluate things over a couple months.

Maybe one becomes the player's choice and the other is not used, so you can remove it. Maybe both have constant use so both simply remain a part of the game. I know the pro-traders will hate this idea, because I believe many of them even believe the GAH would end up being the preferred method of the majority of players.

It would not be difficult to add the GAH to the game.

IMHO

First let's retire GAH it's a misnomer and not what people here want. Unless you all really want to bid on items. We should all agree to use GTS which is a better term.

Anyway. I honestly think that you are oversimplifying the impact of having an unrestricted GTS vs the guild trader system. For the two systems to work side by side the GTS would need to be restricted in some way to put it on par with traders.
The only way to truly test which system works better for eso so that players can see it would be for ZOS to choose 2 live servers and make one a GTS and the other leave with traders and then look at the economies several months later. Those servers would need to be new ones to ensure effective testing but it could be done.

Anyway there are other factors that need to be considered and a gold sinks are a major one. One of the reasons that esos current economy is relatively stable is because the flow of gold goes from players to the trade guilds, then from the guilds to the trade bids for which there are only a limited amount. Promoting competition and as a result more gold removed. As trade and gold becomes more available the cost of the traders increase to accommodate it.

The only other gold sink in the game of any comparison is housing purchases and achievement and luxury vendors. But those are one time deals and there are finite houses you can buy. And those houses can only hold so much furniture.

Dont get me wrong. Hardcore traders like myself will make gold no matter what system is used. In fact I will probably make more gold with a GTS than the current system. The main difference is that unless there are restrictions and gold sinks in place I wont have incentive to remove gold from the game. Right now the competitive nature of the trade guild wars is incentive for me to do so. Because I want my teams to win, and 80% of the gold I have ever earned has gone into making that happen. With a GTS my team becomes just me, so why would I join a team or collective?

I concede that a GTS is a buyers preference and a preference for small or sometimes sellers. But I am not convinced yet it's the best for the game economy.

Of the MMOs that I have played the most successful ones that use a GTS system are ones where in game assets are worth real currency, the items farmed expire and are destroyed, or they have an in game currency, a crown currency, and one that can be exchanged for both crowns and gold.

Maybe eso can go one of those routes but not sure that it would be worth the investment on the devs end. And ultimately that's what matters.

kargen27 · November 2019

Commancho wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

You have concerns that a guild can take over an entire zone and your solution is a system where four people could monopolize rare items across the entire game. The games I played that had a global auction house did have players that did exactly that. They would find a rare item that was desired and easily grab them all.

Ever heard of TTC?

Yeah are you aware there are over two hundred traders in the game? You can't just sit at one spot and buy things as soon as they are posted. You also need to consider TTC is not live current information.

kargen27 · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Ans 2 - That is just your opinion - the part being that Billions of Gold NEED to be removed. Fact is an economy stabilizes itself. If people have lots of money, prices simply go higher. The economy goes merrily on its way, with everything being fair and equal to all.

Except for the people who have little or no money of course. Not to mention every source of income outside of farming the extremely rare items becomes completely fruitless.

barney2525 wrote: »

Awhile back someone claimed if the GAH came in, they would buy All the cornflower and then resell them for 5000 gold each. Which is really dumb. First, no one would buy his cornflower since it simply takes time to go out and find your own. Second, he is then committed to buying all cornflower every day, every time it is put up by the THOUSANDS of players the GAH serves. He would be losing a Lot of money and never would sell a single cornflower at 5000 g.

You must be new to MMOs.

Wow, you make no sense. Extremely rare items increase in value in a gold-rich economy, just as anything else does. If it makes money farming the item in a low gold economy, it will make money farming the item in a gold-rich economy.

People who have 'little or no money' is a relative term, depending on the economy. You seem to want to fix hard prices to things, with the idea that something that can be currently purchased for 10k will always have the 10k price tag, regardless of the economy. That is simply not true.

And, your last statement simply proves how extremely wrong your whole position is.

Hate to throw real world into the trading system in Tamriel but I feel it is needed. A rapidly growing economy can be as damaging as a stagnant economy. You want steady growth. That is why the federal reserve will increase interest rates during a booming economy. They are trying to slow down growth. The gold sink in game is the interest rate in real world. It helps keep the economy stable. The game probably needs more gold sinks. Players being able to spend twelve million gold for a trial carry seems to indicate we might be getting close to there being to much gold in the game.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Ans 2 - That is just your opinion - the part being that Billions of Gold NEED to be removed. Fact is an economy stabilizes itself. If people have lots of money, prices simply go higher. The economy goes merrily on its way, with everything being fair and equal to all.

Except for the people who have little or no money of course. Not to mention every source of income outside of farming the extremely rare items becomes completely fruitless.

barney2525 wrote: »

Awhile back someone claimed if the GAH came in, they would buy All the cornflower and then resell them for 5000 gold each. Which is really dumb. First, no one would buy his cornflower since it simply takes time to go out and find your own. Second, he is then committed to buying all cornflower every day, every time it is put up by the THOUSANDS of players the GAH serves. He would be losing a Lot of money and never would sell a single cornflower at 5000 g.

You must be new to MMOs.

Wow, you make no sense. Extremely rare items increase in value in a gold-rich economy, just as anything else does. If it makes money farming the item in a low gold economy, it will make money farming the item in a gold-rich economy.

People who have 'little or no money' is a relative term, depending on the economy. You seem to want to fix hard prices to things, with the idea that something that can be currently purchased for 10k will always have the 10k price tag, regardless of the economy. That is simply not true.

And, your last statement simply proves how extremely wrong your whole position is.

Hate to throw real world into the trading system in Tamriel but I feel it is needed. A rapidly growing economy can be as damaging as a stagnant economy. You want steady growth. That is why the federal reserve will increase interest rates during a booming economy. They are trying to slow down growth. The gold sink in game is the interest rate in real world. It helps keep the economy stable. The game probably needs more gold sinks. Players being able to spend twelve million gold for a trial carry seems to indicate we might be getting close to there being to much gold in the game.

Good points and comparison. I would also like to point out that the value of gold is only worth what you can exchange said gold for. If there is too much gold in game it will lead to hyperinflation. And prices will go very high, because gold will be too plentiful. Why is it a problem? Because it becomes a barrier to entry for new and returning players. And if those players cant pay the inflated prices then they wont play. And that's a problem that has plagued MMOs forever.

If anyone is interested in how hyperinflation has ruined countries please go research it it's very interesting.

Sylvermynx · November 2019

Okay.... I don't like the system in this game. I was perfectly happy with the global systems in WoW and RIFT. I don't use this system much, as no matter that I have unlimited time to play (being happily retired - for the third time since 1980). However, running around Tamriel to look over stuff at traders is NOT fun.

But that's not why I'm posting. I'm here to remind you all that the guilds which run the trading system in this game, should you succeed in your push to institute a global trading system, would most likely leave the game in droves.

That's not a good thing....

I hate this trading system. But having thousands of players leave the game would NOT BE A GOOD THING.