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Global auction house verses limited traders
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »I say leave the Traders AND ADD a GAH.
That would undermine the traders and cause a complete and total market crash. But I suspect you know this and that you are in fact counting on it.
You are speculating a thinking of a worse case scenario. You are not even making any considerations on any other economic changes at the same time to handle said changes. You are merely throwing out a fear statement without backing it up.
"Throwing out a fear statement without backing it up"......hmmm.... You mean like the statements about "most" guilds requiring 165k dues, limited number of buyers, charging higher prices, gms rake in tons of gold, and selling through a guild is "highway robbery".....that kind of fear statement with nothing concrete to back it up?
People against the guild traders always have horror stories. Their total experience of the horrendous conditions might only be one guild, but they present it as fact, and refuse to consider the many, equally valid, experiences other players have/had that completely contradict their single example.7 -
wavingblue✭✭✭✭So y'all want the people who coded a group finder that cratered the EU server farm in a matter of hours to code a global auction house, well bless your heart.5 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭victory.immortalb16_ESO wrote: »I think the beginning of the problems are starting to show with a guild trader system, especially since the bidding fiasco.
My trade guild used to be very active, but is now a lot quieter. Coupled to that is the fact they have missed a slot for the guild trader for 3 of the last four weeks, so sales have disappeared (but they still seem to want the 5k weekly sub). I think the leaders are just not playing so much. This is a vicious spiral as less and less people list in the guild it becomes less likely that people visit and hence less sales and less listings as people more to a 'better' guild.
This is similar to what many trade guilds are now experiencing.
What will happen is more and more players will have to start moving guilds in order to find ones that are active and have a trader with sufficient varied stock so it attracts custom.
A global AH does not experience these issues.
Victory, you've identified the problem there.victory.immortalb16_ESO wrote: »Coupled to that is the fact they have missed a slot for the guild trader for 3 of the last four weeks...
This will cause a guild to fold as members move to other guilds. While it is a symptom of the trader system, it's not really an indictment of it. If any entity asks you to pay for a service and then doesn't provide it, you're going to go elsewhere.victory.immortalb16_ESO wrote: »I think the leaders are just not playing so much.
No guild, in any game, can survive the leadership wandering off. You can point to situations where a guild develops a parallel ad hoc leadership structure at lower ranks, but if the people who are running the show stop showing up, the guild will die. Trade guilds are only different because senior leadership needs to be present and engaged in order to bid on trader locations.
It honestly sounds like the guild leadership checked out with the recent changes, and the guild went into a spiral from that.
If they're asking 5k per week, but not providing a trader, it's time to move on. There are guilds that do not have requirements and hold trader locations.1 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Please consider that these forums are international and not everyone has mastered the english language. No need to be rude over bad grammar.
If somebody speaks provocatively to me, I will reciprocate in a similar manner. Perhaps you could also police the rude posts directed at me as well?
Also no offence, but I’ll be the judge of what’s needed or not in my own defence thank you.
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 18, 2019 3:21PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »If some speaks provocatively to me, I will reciprocate in a similar manner.
No offence, but I’ll be the judge of what’s needed or not in my own defence thank you.
"Offense," and "defense."
Also, no, you won't; if someone reports you the staff will judge whether you went too far. If you think someone went too far, flag their post, but there's nothing here to justify your response.2 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »If some speaks provocatively to me, I will reciprocate in a similar manner.
No offence, but I’ll be the judge of what’s needed or not in my own defence thank you.
"Offense," and "defense."
Also, no, you won't; if someone reports you the staff will judge whether you went too far. If you think someone went too far, flag their post, but there's nothing here to justify your response.
Report the post then, don’t lecture me. I’m not interested in what you feel is justified. Also “defence” is the English (British) spelling so nice try at being clever...
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 18, 2019 3:36PM0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People against the guild traders always have horror stories. Their total experience of the horrendous conditions might only be one guild, but they present it as fact, and refuse to consider the many, equally valid, experiences other players have/had that completely contradict their single example.
Its okay for people to have horror stories if everyone else is having a great time. 9 out of 10 people involved in a robbery come out with more money than they went in with!
1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »People against the guild traders always have horror stories. Their total experience of the horrendous conditions might only be one guild, but they present it as fact, and refuse to consider the many, equally valid, experiences other players have/had that completely contradict their single example.
Its okay for people to have horror stories if everyone else is having a great time. 9 out of 10 people involved in a robbery come out with more money than they went in with!
I'm not sure that's how math works, @PizzaCat82.3 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.
Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.
And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?
That's a sucker bet. Even in a GAH, there are many more people who don't use the trading system than do.
Then you would have no problems in supporting a survey of players that still log in to find out how they feel on the matter. Without a survey to find out their opinion it is conjecture to say one way or the other.Edited by Grimm13 on November 18, 2019 4:42PM4 -
Tatanko✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game.
So which is it?PizzaCat82 wrote: »9 out of 10 people involved in a robbery come out with more money than they went in with!0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »If some speaks provocatively to me, I will reciprocate in a similar manner.
No offence, but I’ll be the judge of what’s needed or not in my own defence thank you.
"Offense," and "defense."
Also, no, you won't; if someone reports you the staff will judge whether you went too far. If you think someone went too far, flag their post, but there's nothing here to justify your response.
Report the post then, don’t lecture me. I’m not interested in what you feel is justified. Also “defence” is the English (British) spelling so nice try at being clever...
My grammar and your grammar sitting by the fire...
Just supports my point really. There are different forms of English. We just all need to work on getting along. My comment was intended just as reminder that not everyone types very well, and not everyone has language mastery. Let's all be civil, and focus on the topic of the thread.3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.
What you suggest is just a dumb goodies exchange, this maybe more effective to buyer, but less profitable to seller, which means there will be less actual sellers and there will be ton of crap sold by everybody.
Thanks god, AH most probably will cause server meltdown, so we won't see this boring thingie in nearest time.
The only thing I can figure, based on your response, is that you have no idea how an actual AH works.
You want to make 'visiting places all over Tamriel' worthwhile? Complete Pathfinder achievements. Having to waste hours moving to the same 20 spots in zones all over the map is NOT ' visiting places all over Tamriel '.
The bottom line is - The GAH allows ALL players to sell whatever they want, whenever they want, quickly and efficiently. The Trader system does NOT allow all players to sell, is Not quick for the buyer to find what they are looking for, and is NOT efficient in any way.
The experience of using the Trader system to find something can be defined as - IMHO - ' A Frustrating Waste of Time and Effort '.
I played WoW and I highly disliked GAH. Even more, that GAH was one of the reasons why I quit. Again, what you propose turns fun and interesting trading system in ESO in "quick and efficient exchange". This is just another layer of simplification. Just look at how popular WoW Classic is. It's not only about nostalgia, it is about game which is not over-simplified to became tasteless.
Now, let's face truth. Trade guilds are always recruiting and there are ton of trading guilds which have laughably small fees/requirements. Like REALLY small. Something like 10k trading requirement per week, If somebody wants to trade he can easily join any of this guilds. Sell at least 1 roe or 1 hakeijo per week and you are good to go.
First off, a GAH is one reason why you quit a game? Seriously? What did the place where you can buy and sell anytime, without restriction, do to you that you didn't like? And why would I look at WoW classic? I looked at WoW when it originally came out years ago and said ' no thanks'. I have no interest in examining it again. You seem to make a lot of assumptions that you think are facts.
People come to these threads all the time claiming their friends quit the game when they found out how trading works here. Why should that be believable but someone leaving a game with an AH should not?
People always dislike aspects of the trading system. Just visit a game's forums.
You say the current system is "fun and interesting". Except that is it NOT FUN for a large number of players. Just because something is 'Fun' for You, does not mean that it must therefore be 'Fun' for everyone.
The same can be said of PvP, Trials, Vet dungeons, questing, RP, etc. I personally enjoy the "shopping around" aspect of this trading system. I find enough stuff that I can keep my 30 slots filled in my guilds, but mostly I sell stuff that's worth between 300-1000 gold.
The basic concept of ANY system is to give players a method of buying items they want and selling items they want. THAT is the Purpose of whatever system is put in place. The Purpose is not for 'Fun'. The Purpose is essentially a Game Mechanic. If your 'Fun' is basically messing around with the trader system, then you are missing a lot of what ESO has to offer.
People can buy the items they want and sell the items they want in this game. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want in other games, and going out and getting it myself is far harder than in ESO.
Now let's face Real truth. Your belittling people for playing the game is insulting. Many players do NOT obtain a perfect roe every week. Neither do they find a hakejo to sell. The requirement that you Must join a trading guild and pay in order to be able to just sell stuff you happen to pick up while playing the game is unfair at the outset. Buying and selling should be a basic part of the game with no strings attached.
I'm pretty sure any Central Market out there has some sort of limitation, like taxes (35% in BDO, for example), a limit on the number of items you can list (10 in Secret World Legends), and limits to drops to force you to use the Central Market (GW2, for example). They are just different strings.
How about we apply the same point of view to PvP. Have the game deny players the right to PvP unless they join a PvP only Guild. And those guilds can set whatever level/dps/CP/etc requirements (as well as monetary requirements) or else the player is Not allowed into the PvP areas.
That's fair, right?
IMHO
Are you suggesting that we eliminate direct player to player trading like BDO does? Because that would be comparable to your PvP guild analogy.
Because right now, you can trade outside of a trading guild, but you will be less effective. And you can PvP outside of being in a PvP guild, but you will also be less effective.
Edit: Fixed a quote.Edited by AlnilamE on November 18, 2019 5:12PMThe Moot Councillor0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭barney2525 wrote: »Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
First off, MAYBE if you would have an auctionhouse at the start then PERHAPS, it would be better for the average player.
But to swtich now? This is just not possible. Not without a SIGNIFICANT goldsink.
But to be honest, i have never seen a more healthy economy than the ESO one. There is no inflation whatsoever, prices of some items do even deflate. And people literally PAY for the option to have a trader. Sure, some people make profit of the tradingguilds, but there are also guys, who just farm or trade or something, JUST to have a trader for their Guild.
ESO has a FULL community just for trading. Not to mention that if you would be thrown in the world, an auctionhouse wouldnt make sense (i know that some people ignore the roleplay part of the game, but for others its REALLY important)
Also, it helps to keep the cities "busy". You can think of it what you want. But the trading system is one of the reasons so many people run around in Eldenroot, Wayrest, Rawl etc.
Thats also the reason why we dont have the option to do crafting daylies in our house. The game would just be empty.
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.
Sure you can.
It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.
The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.
IMHO
Opinion is the key part of your response that your presenting it all as fact.
"It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place."
This wouldn't just be a simple update they would need to rework . If you were actually familiar with how updates work you'd realize that isn't a small incremental patch but it would be a major overhaul to not only the trading system but it would change the base functionality of guilds. Sure ZOS probably can' patch anything but it doesn't mean that it will function well.
"The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild."
God, if only people against the AH had brought up this point over and over again. Well, what do you do with hundreds of millions of gold and items left over in Guild Banks? How would you potentially distribute all of the gold and items back? (you can't)
"There would be options."
Are there good options though? I think you left this part intentionally vague because yes, there are options but no, none of them are good or will make anyone happy.
"More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it."
ZOS: Hey guys, we're fundamentally changing the way our traders and guilds function after 5 years of continuous operation. You've got about 3 months til next patch to figure it out. We know the guild histories don't go back that far, former members no longer play, etc. but whatever."
Yeah, I'm sure people would be pumped for that patch.
"Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly."
No, no they can't. It's called a business. Some of us are familiar with them. There's higher ups, share holders, etc. that all have a say in it. Having the ability to do anything and being able to do anything they want aren't the same thing. Some of us are familiar with that.2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alternate Option:
Zone (Regional) auction house aka ZAH or RAH
01) Add 5 selling slots that can be used at any location to all accounts. ( no more than 10 if 5 is to low) (edit: listing fee should equal the listing & tax a guild faces, no advantage over the other).
02) Zone auction houses are accessible at every trader in a Zone and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No more hoping from trader to trader in a zone.
03) The ZAH does take a small fee for listing and selling items using the 5 granted selling slots.
04) Greater price competition as all traders have a equal access footing and you have the added listings from any account.
05) It is easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create but you still have to travel to the ZAH's.
06) Trade guilds are still viable and accounts still get the 30 slots per guild of top of the 5 global slots.
07) You can still access your guild store at a Bank but you would need to travel to a ZAH location to see what is on all of that Zone.
08) Multi-bidding is still required for a guild to be part of a ZAH. ZOS can set a ZAH to have 1 available slot or 40 as they see the need to adjust Trader to Account ratio on a per server basis. Place a bid at any ZAH access point (current traders), have a # of Bid slots in ZAH and # of Hire's available in ZAH.
09) Outlaw refuge's are behind a portal from the zone, so I think they all should be part of a Outlaw ZAH instead of that zone.
10) Cyrodill is Faction based and claimed locations. Each Faction is their own ZAH, it makes all claimed locations equal on the access to buyers of that Faction.
I do believe a hybrid system such as this would allow for needed changes, bring greater access and the guild structure. Have better ideas on how to achieve those points, please present them.
ZOS needs a way to place or remove trader to account ratio per server without figuring in where to place them. This addresses that ability.
Interesting proposal. Can you expand on points 6 and 8 please? Specifically on point 6 are you saying that a player would have 5 slots per zone or just 5 per account?
And on point 8 please expand as I am not sure how this would work or why trade guilds would be involved in the ZTS (zone trade store let's move away from auction house as really these are stores not auctions). Tbh something like this might work. I am still concerned about gold sink and server load but zone based stores is worth exploring.1 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭barney2525 wrote: »I say leave the Traders AND ADD a GAH.
That would undermine the traders and cause a complete and total market crash. But I suspect you know this and that you are in fact counting on it.
You are speculating a thinking of a worse case scenario. You are not even making any considerations on any other economic changes at the same time to handle said changes. You are merely throwing out a fear statement without backing it up.
"Throwing out a fear statement without backing it up"......hmmm.... You mean like the statements about "most" guilds requiring 165k dues, limited number of buyers, charging higher prices, gms rake in tons of gold, and selling through a guild is "highway robbery".....that kind of fear statement with nothing concrete to back it up?
People against the guild traders always have horror stories. Their total experience of the horrendous conditions might only be one guild, but they present it as fact, and refuse to consider the many, equally valid, experiences other players have/had that completely contradict their single example.
I stand by my point as you once again do the same as I pointed out. Further, you are making it out as if all people that want a change in the trader system is saying the same thing. I have made my point several times already in how I believe the changes should be made to the system.
I believe the statement had been about 150k dues, but I agree that the OP was not correct in that regards on PCNA. I do not play of the other servers so I can not confirm nor deny the statement. Unless I missed it, they have not been asked which sever they are basing that opinion on.
Out of the guilds on PCNA that regularly get a trader, only a handful have no weekly dues to use the trader or to be a member of the guild, fewer set no sales quotas, has no raffle or auctions whether voluntary or required. I am only aware of one that has none of those and it receives more applications than openings each week. So the opportunities are limited to join such a guild that some many have told others to go find if they do not like the trader system.
It is also fair to say that a number of people against changes to the trader system have and present horror stories of how it will crash the economics, be abused or dominated, all presented as facts when it is only their opinion and conjecture. They hold these opinions knowing that only a portion of the players have the opportunity to place sales in the trader system.1 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »Alternate Option:
Zone (Regional) auction house aka ZAH or RAH
01) Add 5 selling slots that can be used at any location to all accounts. ( no more than 10 if 5 is to low) (edit: listing fee should equal the listing & tax a guild faces, no advantage over the other).
02) Zone auction houses are accessible at every trader in a Zone and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No more hoping from trader to trader in a zone.
03) The ZAH does take a small fee for listing and selling items using the 5 granted selling slots.
04) Greater price competition as all traders have a equal access footing and you have the added listings from any account.
05) It is easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create but you still have to travel to the ZAH's.
06) Trade guilds are still viable and accounts still get the 30 slots per guild of top of the 5 global slots.
07) You can still access your guild store at a Bank but you would need to travel to a ZAH location to see what is on all of that Zone.
08) Multi-bidding is still required for a guild to be part of a ZAH. ZOS can set a ZAH to have 1 available slot or 40 as they see the need to adjust Trader to Account ratio on a per server basis. Place a bid at any ZAH access point (current traders), have a # of Bid slots in ZAH and # of Hire's available in ZAH.
09) Outlaw refuge's are behind a portal from the zone, so I think they all should be part of a Outlaw ZAH instead of that zone.
10) Cyrodill is Faction based and claimed locations. Each Faction is their own ZAH, it makes all claimed locations equal on the access to buyers of that Faction.
I do believe a hybrid system such as this would allow for needed changes, bring greater access and the guild structure. Have better ideas on how to achieve those points, please present them.
ZOS needs a way to place or remove trader to account ratio per server without figuring in where to place them. This addresses that ability.
Interesting proposal. Can you expand on points 6 and 8 please? Specifically on point 6 are you saying that a player would have 5 slots per zone or just 5 per account?
And on point 8 please expand as I am not sure how this would work or why trade guilds would be involved in the ZTS (zone trade store let's move away from auction house as really these are stores not auctions). Tbh something like this might work. I am still concerned about gold sink and server load but zone based stores is worth exploring.
Not 5 per zone, it would be 5 per account that could be used in any zone.
A general complaint against the Trader system is that one has to travel around so much to find an item. A global store is said to grant too little in limiting searching. So finding a better balance to me is to have each zone be a store, trade guilds still exist and bid to be part of a zones store system instead of a single trader that they do not. The advantage a guild member has is that they get use the 30 trade slots in each guild they belong to.
You still have the same gold sink with trade guilds bidding to be part a zone based store. You gain additional gold sink with the 5 sell any where slot also within the stores. The occasional seller gains access to sell but has encouragement to join a guild if they wish to increase trading potential.
I also believe that other gold sinks in the game should be explored. One such possibility is to add in an option to rent a outfit slot for 30 days with gold. There people that do not want to play crowns for a slot but ZOS also does not want to diminish their crown sales by allowed purchase of the slot by gold. So renting can be a compromise and adds a possible gold sink. Gold sinks themselves should be a whole another thread as they can get involved.
Server load I think would balance out as you no longer have 217 separate store to track.1 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »If some speaks provocatively to me, I will reciprocate in a similar manner.
No offence, but I’ll be the judge of what’s needed or not in my own defence thank you.
"Offense," and "defense."
Also, no, you won't; if someone reports you the staff will judge whether you went too far. If you think someone went too far, flag their post, but there's nothing here to justify your response.
Report the post then, don’t lecture me. I’m not interested in what you feel is justified. Also “defence” is the English (British) spelling so nice try at being clever...
My grammar and your grammar sitting by the fire...
Just supports my point really. There are different forms of English. We just all need to work on getting along. My comment was intended just as reminder that not everyone types very well, and not everyone has language mastery. Let's all be civil, and focus on the topic of the thread.
Spoken (or would that be typed? ) like a true gentleman. Agreed.
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 18, 2019 6:02PM0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »Alternate Option:
Zone (Regional) auction house aka ZAH or RAH
01) Add 5 selling slots that can be used at any location to all accounts. ( no more than 10 if 5 is to low) (edit: listing fee should equal the listing & tax a guild faces, no advantage over the other).
02) Zone auction houses are accessible at every trader in a Zone and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No more hoping from trader to trader in a zone.
03) The ZAH does take a small fee for listing and selling items using the 5 granted selling slots.
04) Greater price competition as all traders have a equal access footing and you have the added listings from any account.
05) It is easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create but you still have to travel to the ZAH's.
06) Trade guilds are still viable and accounts still get the 30 slots per guild of top of the 5 global slots.
07) You can still access your guild store at a Bank but you would need to travel to a ZAH location to see what is on all of that Zone.
08) Multi-bidding is still required for a guild to be part of a ZAH. ZOS can set a ZAH to have 1 available slot or 40 as they see the need to adjust Trader to Account ratio on a per server basis. Place a bid at any ZAH access point (current traders), have a # of Bid slots in ZAH and # of Hire's available in ZAH.
09) Outlaw refuge's are behind a portal from the zone, so I think they all should be part of a Outlaw ZAH instead of that zone.
10) Cyrodill is Faction based and claimed locations. Each Faction is their own ZAH, it makes all claimed locations equal on the access to buyers of that Faction.
I do believe a hybrid system such as this would allow for needed changes, bring greater access and the guild structure. Have better ideas on how to achieve those points, please present them.
ZOS needs a way to place or remove trader to account ratio per server without figuring in where to place them. This addresses that ability.
Interesting proposal. Can you expand on points 6 and 8 please? Specifically on point 6 are you saying that a player would have 5 slots per zone or just 5 per account?
And on point 8 please expand as I am not sure how this would work or why trade guilds would be involved in the ZTS (zone trade store let's move away from auction house as really these are stores not auctions). Tbh something like this might work. I am still concerned about gold sink and server load but zone based stores is worth exploring.
Not 5 per zone, it would be 5 per account that could be used in any zone.
A general complaint against the Trader system is that one has to travel around so much to find an item. A global store is said to grant too little in limiting searching. So finding a better balance to me is to have each zone be a store, trade guilds still exist and bid to be part of a zones store system instead of a single trader that they do not. The advantage a guild member has is that they get use the 30 trade slots in each guild they belong to.
You still have the same gold sink with trade guilds bidding to be part a zone based store. You gain additional gold sink with the 5 sell any where slot also within the stores. The occasional seller gains access to sell but has encouragement to join a guild if they wish to increase trading potential.
I also believe that other gold sinks in the game should be explored. One such possibility is to add in an option to rent a outfit slot for 30 days with gold. There people that do not want to play crowns for a slot but ZOS also does not want to diminish their crown sales by allowed purchase of the slot by gold. So renting can be a compromise and adds a possible gold sink. Gold sinks themselves should be a whole another thread as they can get involved.
Server load I think would balance out as you no longer have 217 separate store to track.
Ok that sounds like a decent idea. And it could work.
Also I like the idea of outfit rentals. And also maybe ZOS could take a loss and move dye stamps into gold too.2 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game.
So which is it?PizzaCat82 wrote: »9 out of 10 people involved in a robbery come out with more money than they went in with!
Group A includes people who do not want to take part in the trader system and feel the system is unfair. They do not use traders and merely sell all their items to the nearest vendor. Others may simply use the chat channels to trade. This may also include people who have to deal with the system how it is, but with various problems such as inter-guild drama and fierce spot competition causing GMs to either have to treat ESO like a full time job to raise money each week, or simply quit and leave 300+ people with nothing.
Group B includes everyone who uses a trader. This is a smaller group. This obviously includes you. You're happy. You won your bid. The other guy didn't. He's out a trader this week. He has to explain to 400+ people why they wont make any sales, and that they have to work extra hard to generate money for the next bid as the same people are going to have even more money next week to get all the top spots. But hey, at least there's outlaw refuges right? Who cares about those people, they should have more money.3 -
wavingblue✭✭✭✭EU goes down all the time yet you want thousands of people contending for a shiny at the same time and expect ZOS to code that properly. Bless your heart.1
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.
This is a huge baseless assumption. As such the statement is pretty meaningless.PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.
The fact they keep working with the system and on it does demonstrate they are content with it. I have yet to see the publisher of an MMORPG regularly state they are happy with their trading system.PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?
While this is wholly irrelevant, Zos has acknowledged there are issues with the GF.
Cheers2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game.
So which is it?PizzaCat82 wrote: »9 out of 10 people involved in a robbery come out with more money than they went in with!
Group A includes people who do not want to take part in the trader system and feel the system is unfair. They do not use traders and merely sell all their items to the nearest vendor. Others may simply use the chat channels to trade. This may also include people who have to deal with the system how it is, but with various problems such as inter-guild drama and fierce spot competition causing GMs to either have to treat ESO like a full time job to raise money each week, or simply quit and leave 300+ people with nothing.
Group B includes everyone who uses a trader. This is a smaller group. This obviously includes you. You're happy. You won your bid. The other guy didn't. He's out a trader this week. He has to explain to 400+ people why they wont make any sales, and that they have to work extra hard to generate money for the next bid as the same people are going to have even more money next week to get all the top spots. But hey, at least there's outlaw refuges right? Who cares about those people, they should have more money.
Again, a baseless claim that those who use the trader is a smaller group than those who refuse to use the trader. Heck, your definition of this group Group B even includes those who begrudgingly use the trader.
Heck, if those in Group A are so stubborn they will vendor valuable items to a vendor they deserve to lose out on the gold. No reason to have pity on them. It is one thing to hold an opinion on something, it is another thing to be so obstinate that one would disregard the benefits it provides. We all make our choices and that is a right bestowed upon us by the divines.2 -
Maggi12✭✭✭We will see AH only and only when TTC becomes super popular (used by 75%+ playerbase).
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.
This is a huge baseless assumption. As such the statement is pretty meaningless.PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.
The fact they keep working with the system and on it does demonstrate they are content with it. I have yet to see the publisher of an MMORPG regularly state they are happy with their trading system.PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?
While this is wholly irrelevant, Zos has acknowledged there are issues with the GF.
Cheers
The only way the trader system gets better instead of worse is if people stop playing the game. Considering the issues, this is a likely scenario. But if you're like me and you want to see this game succeed, and god forbid grow, then eventually we're going to have to take a look at the trader system and knock a few deeply rooted trees out of the ground.
I only tend to get this much hard-headedness arguing with gamers and conservatives.1 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »If some speaks provocatively to me, I will reciprocate in a similar manner.
No offence, but I’ll be the judge of what’s needed or not in my own defence thank you.
"Offense," and "defense."
Also, no, you won't; if someone reports you the staff will judge whether you went too far. If you think someone went too far, flag their post, but there's nothing here to justify your response.
I could be wrong here, but across the pond it's pretty common to see those words spelled with "c" instead of an "s" with the "s" being used when spelling something like "defensive". I think we can all just agree that so long as someone is capable of making their point (which occurs when you can be offended by it) we don't need to sink to the abysmal level of being grammar/spelling police? Time and place my friends, time and place.
"It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."3 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭I think the current trading system works great. I enjoy it a lot. Other's opinions may vary. I really enjoy roaming the various zones and traders looking for good deals, since automated systems can't snatch them up 2 microseconds after they are posted in a universal common trader. Trader bids are a good gold sink keeping inflation low and prices stable. In an alternative trade system, sales taxes would have to be much higher to maintain inflation and I'd just get much less from my sales.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.
This is a huge baseless assumption. As such the statement is pretty meaningless.PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.
The fact they keep working with the system and on it does demonstrate they are content with it. I have yet to see the publisher of an MMORPG regularly state they are happy with their trading system.PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?
While this is wholly irrelevant, Zos has acknowledged there are issues with the GF.
Cheers
The only way the trader system gets better instead of worse is if people stop playing the game. Considering the issues, this is a likely scenario. But if you're like me and you want to see this game succeed, and god forbid grow, then eventually we're going to have to take a look at the trader system and knock a few deeply rooted trees out of the ground.
I only tend to get this much hard-headedness arguing with gamers and conservatives.
This is an opinion and you are entitled to your opinion.
I think with almost 6 years playing this game I want it to succeed and do well for many years but that does not mean we must share the same opinion. Also, considering we have had the guild trader system for all these years and it does seem via Steam charts and Zos' explanation for server issues on EU and later NA that we have had player growth (except past few months.
So it does not seem to be an issue that we have the guild trader system. I doubt players who actually enjoy this game will quit it because it has a guild trader.0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Many people writing here negative opinions run trading guilds and they are afraid of free trade, because they would stop swimming in the gold and many of them has invested real money to estabilish their guilds.They would be not able any more to speculate the prices or take over trade in entire zones either. I have never seen a multiplayer game where AH would cause any damage unless you could sell for a real money.
There is one reason why ESO will never have an auction house - it's completly beyond their programming capabilities and computing power of their servers. I mean it has taken them years to add a stupid search into guild stores and we are talking here about platform which would run milions of transactions every day lol3 -
Zulera301✭✭✭✭✭No. there is no need for an auction house. There never has been a need for an auction house, and there remains no need for an auction house.
Most of the people clamouring against the current system are people who have never run guilds and so they don't understand how much time, money (virtual or otherwise) and effort goes into maintaining them. sure it seems like they move a lot of money and it's easy to speculate that these people are swimming in gold, and maybe they are. but as someone who is in several prominent guilds and has contacts and acquaintances in several others, most of them end up paying out of pocket for the competitive trader spots.
no guild has ever "taken over an entire zone", much less cornered the market on any particular item. The items that are easiest to manipulate price-wise are some of the older rare motifs that no one farms anymore, but that has nothing to do with guild traders or AH. people are just salty that they actually have to put a little effort in to make sales rather than just sit on their butts and get paid. heaven forbid you actually do any work in a capitalist society.Shortly after the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a Nord woman was given a tour of the Tribunal Temple. When later asked about the experience, she seemed upset. Suffice to say, the Dunmer were not pleased to hear this, and thus they inquired further.
"Well," the Nord frowned, "the priests were very angry and unwelcoming. They kept shouting things at me like "you can't drink that mead in here!" and "somebody stop her, she's running naked!" and "we can't catch her; she's covered in grease!""0