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Is it worth it to remove dungeon finder?
ForzaRammer
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The current dungeon finder overload server.
So my question is, is it even worth to keep?
So my question is, is it even worth to keep?
Is it worth it to remove dungeon finder? 133 votes
Keep finder
52%
70 votes
Remove finder
26%
35 votes
Don’t care / neutral
21%
28 votes
0
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CiliPadi✭✭✭✭They should stop pumping out chapters/DLC/microtransactions for a while and focus 100% on recoding the broken Activity Finder.14 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After two years I would suggest that Zos brings in talent that can get the job done. Not knocking their people but they seem to not understand the path to a solution.5 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t care / neutral...
That wouldn't help because the issue is not just the group finder. People couldn't log on let alone use the dungeon finder. The problem is the amount of people that the event is drawing in - the game can't handle it.3 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don’t care / neutralIt's important because sometimes it's the only way to get a group together.
But don't tie events and rewards to it anymore. That way only people who actually want to run the content will be in there and you won't get sudden spikes in usage.Edited by Dusk_Coven on November 14, 2019 11:27PM1 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭Remove finderI'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of the group finder tool, but I don't think events should ever be tied to it. It seems to create more problems than it solves."And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez0 -
akl77✭✭✭✭✭
✭How do you do dungeons without dungeon finder queue? Manually asking in zone and guild? Not everyone you can find want to do the same dungeon as you for the roles you need and at the time you need.
Without the feature it’s like Stone Age gaming -_-Pc na7 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No.
Because it will not solve the underlying issue
The issue is player population and creation of independent zones/instances. Group finder affects this because players use it to create instances of dungeons. But players who manually walk into dungeons were experiencing exactly the same long load screens and failures.
You can either improve the servers or cull the players
Or stop having events that draw players in....10 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How do you do dungeons without dungeon finder queue? Manually asking in zone and guild? Not everyone you can find want to do the same dungeon as you for the roles you need and at the time you need.
Without the feature it’s like Stone Age gaming -_-
Unless you are calling ESO the stone age of gaming then not really. Ok, granted there are aspects of the game that seem to be stone age.
When the game launched the GF would form 2 man groups most of the time due to bad design. It was really a joke of a GF as it was pathetic. Surprised Matt would have let something that bad be part of the game.
Regardless, if you wanted to do a dungeon you formed your own group. Even today most players form their own group and just use GF to place them into the dungeon and to get the buffs I provides. That is the best feature of the GF.
So yea, we will still be able to do dungeons just fine without a GF to do all the work forming the group.2 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don’t care / neutralHow do you do dungeons without dungeon finder queue? Manually asking in zone and guild?
Yes. It's obviously chancy for a lot of factors, but if people can get trial groups organized, surely a 4-person dungeon is not outside the realm of possibility. (Which is NOT to say that everyone is getting dungeon groups together whenever they want).
The actual bigger concern is getting people for the dungeon / mode you want. And right now, people are doing all sorts of workarounds even with group finder to avoid the ones they don't want anyway. Look at the threads -- calls for dlc to be removed from random normal, and people citing their strategy being to just leave and accept the deserter penalty.
When you put a group together, they know up front what they are getting into and you are more likely to have a successful group anyway.
But of course, a lot of variables involved in asking around.Edited by Dusk_Coven on November 14, 2019 11:38PM1 -
Kaartinen✭✭✭Keep finderKeep it, but focus on the functionality of the game rather than new content for a bit. I understand these are seperate departments, but it feels like the budget for how well the game operates is lacking.2
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ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t care / neutralNo.
Because it will not solve the underlying issue
The issue is player population and creation of independent zones/instances. Group finder affects this because players use it to create instances of dungeons. But players who manually walk into dungeons were experiencing exactly the same long load screens and failures.
You can either improve the servers or cull the players
Or stop having events that draw players in....
I never said it will remove the load, but the memory and cpu usage is surely reduced
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akl77✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »How do you do dungeons without dungeon finder queue? Manually asking in zone and guild?
Yes. It's obviously chancy for a lot of factors, but if people can get trial groups organized, surely a 4-person dungeon is not outside the realm of possibility. (Which is NOT to say that everyone is getting dungeon groups together whenever they want).
The actual bigger concern is getting people for the dungeon / mode you want. And right now, people are doing all sorts of workarounds even with group finder to avoid the ones they don't want anyway. Look at the threads -- calls for dlc to be removed from random normal, and people citing their strategy being to just leave and accept the deserter penalty.
When you put a group together, they know up front what they are getting into and you are more likely to have a successful group anyway.
But of course, a lot of variables involved in asking around.
I only queue for vet Dlc dungeons nowadays, why? because nobody in zone or guild wanna do it. Why I queue for it? Cos it’s the only thing that’s still more interesting than non dlc dungeons that I’ve completed over a thousand times.Pc na1 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭Remove finderAfter two years I would suggest that Zos brings in talent that can get the job done. Not knocking their people but they seem to not understand the path to a solution.
I very much doubt their parent company even cares enough to bring in people capable of fixing things. So long as that sweet sweet micro-transaction money keeps flowing in they will do the barest minimum possible.
Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep finderForzaRammer wrote: »The current dungeon finder overload server.
So my question is, is it even worth to keep?
They better keep it. Else I"m gone.1 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have been giving the developers the benefit of doubt on this issue since launch. The original group finder was very obviously written by someone who either was not quite up to the task, or quit before they were finished. From the look of it, that person left not only without fixing the bugs, but also without documenting the code enough for someone else to come in and make any sense of it. The joke at the time was that "an intern did it", but that might not be far from the truth. Be that as it may, I can understand. I don't agree with their decision to keep that half broken group finder for years before they set out to fix it, but that is another matter, and I would not assume that the developers or the management were incompetent because of that. It could be that management actively decided to prioritize other things, and I don't have enough insight into their reasoning to say for certain that they were wrong. After all, the game survived for this long with a buggy and moody group finder.
However, the new and supposedly improved group finder was rewritten from scratch, with management and developers most certainly being aware that their reputation, and to some extent the future of the game, would rest on it working reasonably well. They even went as far as proudly announcing it as a part of their plan for improving the game. Despite the high stakes, they managed to botch it once again, creating a tool that not only fails to work as intended (BG queues were broken), it also breaks under stress, and stresses the server infrastructure so much that it stops responding and keeps people from even logging in. Whether the reasons for their failure to get this right is at the individual or organizational level, I have no idea, and I have absolutely no desire to point fingers and throw blame around at random, but the way it looks from the outside is - bad. Really, really bad.
Would I have done it better? Certainly not, but I am not a developer of that kind of software, and I know close to nothing about performance engineering for distributed systems. I am saying that they should know better, and they should have made pretty darn sure they had more than a fair chance of getting it right this time.
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Paramedicus✭✭✭✭Keep finderObviusly keep it. Asking for group in zone/guild all the time would be tedious - as is it for trails. But for trails, at least u have craglorn where everybody do it - for dungs you would have min. 3 zones (pledge quest givers). And that would be end game player perspective. Think about getting dung run if you were new player (below 50 lvl) in zone. Sry but cant help to think that this pull is tarded. Not everyone has 810cp with 30 chars in 5 guilds. This 'solution' would really nerf group experience for more-casual players.Edited by Paramedicus on November 15, 2019 1:15AM0 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t care / neutralDusk_Coven wrote: »How do you do dungeons without dungeon finder queue? Manually asking in zone and guild?
Yes. It's obviously chancy for a lot of factors, but if people can get trial groups organized, surely a 4-person dungeon is not outside the realm of possibility. (Which is NOT to say that everyone is getting dungeon groups together whenever they want).
The actual bigger concern is getting people for the dungeon / mode you want. And right now, people are doing all sorts of workarounds even with group finder to avoid the ones they don't want anyway. Look at the threads -- calls for dlc to be removed from random normal, and people citing their strategy being to just leave and accept the deserter penalty.
When you put a group together, they know up front what they are getting into and you are more likely to have a successful group anyway.
But of course, a lot of variables involved in asking around.
I only queue for vet Dlc dungeons nowadays, why? because nobody in zone or guild wanna do it. Why I queue for it? Cos it’s the only thing that’s still more interesting than non dlc dungeons that I’ve completed over a thousand times.
It’s not like you get vet dlc que pop anyways. Some time que as a healer on pledge takes 30 mins. If no one in zone want to do it, then you will just get ppl say ‘fu-ck this rng, i qued random, kick me’.0 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t care / neutralParamedicus wrote: »Obviusly keep it. Asking for group in zone/guild all the time would be tedious - as is it for trails. But for trails, at least u have craglorn where everybody do it - for dungs you would have min. 3 zones (pledge quest givers). And that would be end game player perspective. Think about getting dung run if you were new player (below 50 lvl) in zone. Sry but cant help to think that this pull is tarded. Not everyone has 810cp with 30 chars in 5 guilds. This 'solution' would really nerf group experience for more-casual players.
You are correct on remove dungeon finder will impact subpar player more than average players. It will definitely make subpar players harder to find / stay in a group. But this is not focus.
Subpar players get short changed doesn’t prove anything wrong with this poll. This is a legit attempt to see how much a % of players is ok to give up group finder for server performance.0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Remove finderGet rid off it. Maybe people will start to play something else than random normal and end up being cluess 810cps.0
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rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should replace their database technology to handle its job under load. Management tasks like activity finder or accessing guild information should not cause servers to keel over and cry.2 -
huntgod_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t care / neutralOnly time I use it is if the event requires it...I prefer to make groups from guilds or build it in zone chat.
Only reason I ever used it was for the XP bump, but I'm closing on 900 cp, so don't really need the xp bump and all my entire rosters is maxxed, so not leveling anything new since I did my two necromancers.
I wish you could elect to just go with the first 3+yourself, rather than trying to run heal/tank/2xDD.
--- HuntGod ---
Officer of the Unrepentant
www.unrepentantgaming.com0 -
nejcn001✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »The current dungeon finder overload server.
What? How?
Dungeon finder should be a separate server.
You queue, server calculates the best match, send players queue invite, if all accepted start activity session, which most likely runs on a completely other server.
Dungeon finder should not affect overland/cyro server performance.
Other than that..dungeon finder is probaly not needed in Cyro.0 -
Paramedicus✭✭✭✭Keep finder
By subpar player you mean anyone who don't have whole map discovered? You understand that without finder you would have to manually go to zone where dungeons is? You understand that is case for most players? And do you understand that this would lower averange player skill significantly, since new players would run group dungeons much less frequently? So this soultion would annoy every player, those 'subpar', because they wouldn't be able to run fun stuff (you know, doing things in group, because it is a mmo) and those 'non-subpar', because random people getting into group content would be less skilled bacause of lack of practice.ForzaRammer wrote: »You are correct on remove dungeon finder will impact subpar player more than average players. It will definitely make subpar players harder to find / stay in a group. But this is not focus.
Subpar players get short changed doesn’t prove anything wrong with this poll. This is a legit attempt to see how much a % of players is ok to give up group finder for server performance.
And I just skip whole point about inconvenience of spamming LFG in 'main' city for dung run. i ve played mmo where there was no finder and similar pledge system and 'boy, sure it was 'fun' to stand in one place and cry for group in zone chat (at least there was option to buy annoucement for cross-zone chat message).
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Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep finderi have an alternate low tech version of a groupfinder using the existing npc guilds if they are interested.
First the existing groupfinder can still be used, this system is designed to reduce that use and expand to other areas while improving the grouping experience for players specifically looking for similar ability players. This will also improve performance of the groupfinder for the battlegrounds.
Second well enhance the npc guilds to take over the match making process but in a more social way using player achievements as follows.
Each npc guild will focus on a specific style of gameplay:
fighters guild will be focused on trials and arenas ( 5 chats)
Mages guild will be focused on overland ( questing, delves, public dungeons) ( 4 chats)
undaunted guild will be focused on 4 man dungeons ( 8 chats)
thieves guild will be based on stealing ( 2 chats)
dark brotherhood will be based on assassination ( 2 chats)
There will be an alliance guild ( one for each alliance ) which is focused on pvp ( two chats)
One final npc guild will be an global achievement based guild based on the psijic order. ( one chat)
You will be able to join any two of these guilds ( above and beyond joining for the skilline and quests, a distinct title) at any time which will give you access to the chats. There is a catch though. To unlock the specific chats you are required to complete ingame activities.
for example ( ill leave the actual accomplishments to zos) the top chat in the fighters guild requires you to complete maelstrom arena vet or 5 vet trials before you can access it. There will always be an "either/or/any" for the harder requirements to be met.
each of these guilds will have a number of chats up to 8 chats that are all achievement based according tho the theme of the content.
To access thee chats you only need to go to the location where if your a member you will automatically join. For instance the lv 1-5 chats for undaunted dungeons are at the undaunted enclaves but the levels 6-8 chats are at the local pub. Similarly the
chats for trials and arenas are located in the local fighters guild chapters.
since all the chats are achievement based people will sort themselves through the chats and thus people of more similar ability will be able to find each other much easier than spamming local zones, something the current groupfinder could never accomplish. This will help bring the right people together in the right places. Not only will you be able to access your channel but also the one below your rank. You have to make your own groups from here and travel to the dungeon etc on your own.
undaunted chat levels examples
1: join the undaunted as a member ( i.e title )
2: complete any 4 normal dungeons
3: complete any 12 normal dungeons
4: complete any 6 vet dungeons
5: complete any 6 vet dungeons hardmode
6: complete any 2 vet dlc dungeons ( from horns of the reach on)
7: complete any 2 dlc dungeons hardmode ( from horns of the reach on)
8: complete no death or time challenge for any dlc dungeon hardmode
its pretty clear to me that the groupfinder is a massive resource hog for the servers and these structured chats should be pretty lean and serve to reduce the groupfinder usage to non destructive levels, providing specific players with better tools to make groups, while expanding this groupmaking ability to all the other areas of the game.
Edited by Rungar on November 15, 2019 12:13PMonly a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard1 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Remove finderForzaRammer wrote: »The current dungeon finder overload server.
What? How?
Dungeon finder should be a separate server.
You queue, server calculates the best match, send players queue invite, if all accepted start activity session, which most likely runs on a completely other server.
Dungeon finder should not affect overland/cyro server performance.
Other than that..dungeon finder is probaly not needed in Cyro.
Another home expert haha1 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remove finderBecause I want to go back to the days where we had to spam zone chat with LFGs or ambushing random players with "Would you like to join a group?" outside of the dungeon's location.0