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Forum profiles should show the classes & levels of each user's toons
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MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP, what you're suggesting would be a massive invasion of PRIVACY and lead to ELITISM
hence, I will reluctantly meet you half way, and merely advocate for an in-game inspection or dps meters instead
Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel like there should be some transparency with regard to what classes each forum user plays. Reading all the "nerf [insert class that kills you a lot]" posts, it's pretty apparent that many people have no clue how classes other than their own favorite actually even work. I think it would be a useful check to be able to see exactly what experience (if any) they have playing the class that they want to destroy.
I don't know the logistics of implementing such a feature, but since our ESO accounts are tied to our forum accounts I can't imagine it being that difficult.
[edit] I'm a bit surprised at the relative hostility this post is receiving. Many seem to think that I proposed that we only consider what class a person plays in determining their credibility. I am unsure where they'd get that from — that isn't what I said at all, and it couldn't be further from the truth. I do, however, think it would be helpful information to have.
I love this idea, it should be shown what classes and levels eaxh forum user has.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Myself and others have responded with reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information yet you merely attack what was said with generalized statements.
Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning, providing a basis for your opinion, it will be viewed as having very little value as is the overwhelming majority here. Unless that happens the idea is pretty much DoA. Yea, that is an opinion but one that time will likely solidify.Edited by idk on November 12, 2019 5:11AM2 -
ArenGesus✭✭✭✭✭
Your opinion. (Which you are welcome to, but please don't state it as fact.)...the idea presented in the OP was not well thought out.
While true, exception fallacy.Many of us have come across CP capped players who are very bad. We also know that many players can level up a new character to 50 in mere hours and that short time span is not enough to gain actual knowledge.
This is, again, all your opinion — with which I disagree.So in the end the idea presented does not even provide a slight benefit. The information it provides is fairly meaningless. Further, you have not mentioned anything in this entire thread that actually says otherwise.
Your argument seems to be that having more information about people engaged in debate is a bad thing and provides no benefit to those involved. If that's seriously what you believe, then you have no business telling other people their ideas are poorly thought out.
This is basically the same concept that people on reddit use every time a political debate pops up. Go through the comments history of whomever you're debating to determine whether you're dealing with a liberal/conservative so you can resort directly to bashing them personally instead of arguing the actual points. There is even a bot to help you out with that so you don't have to go through their history yourself. It's just a tool to help further the divide between all groups of people who don't fundamentally agree on every single thing in life. And it sucks. If you can't have a friendly debate given the presented arguments, then you don't have an argument of your own and lazy attack tactics aren't going to help.2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I feel like there should be some transparency with regard to what classes each forum user plays. Reading all the "nerf [insert class that kills you a lot]" posts, it's pretty apparent that many people have no clue how classes other than their own favorite actually even work. I think it would be a useful check to be able to see exactly what experience (if any) they have playing the class that they want to destroy.
I don't know the logistics of implementing such a feature, but since our ESO accounts are tied to our forum accounts I can't imagine it being that difficult.
[edit] I'm a bit surprised at the relative hostility this post is receiving. Many seem to think that I proposed that we only consider what class a person plays in determining their credibility. I am unsure where they'd get that from — that isn't what I said at all, and it couldn't be further from the truth. I do, however, think it would be helpful information to have.
well, let me see if I can translate your request properly. And, I am going to paraphrase.
You would like a Forum requirement that the writer of a post/response identify the main preferred character class they play.
Again, paraphrased - This is so that everyone reading the post/response can make an immediate judgement about the bias of the writer, and we can get right to the bashing of the writer because of our Own perceived bias toward their preferred class, and in the process completely ignore any point the writer tried tom make, no matter how valid.
Please note - this is not in any way a hostile response. Just making sure I understands your position. Personally, I can not imagine a single positive reason there could be for forcing writers to identify their preferred class.
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your opinion. (Which you are welcome to, but please don't state it as fact.)...the idea presented in the OP was not well thought out.
While true, exception fallacy.Many of us have come across CP capped players who are very bad. We also know that many players can level up a new character to 50 in mere hours and that short time span is not enough to gain actual knowledge.
This is, again, all your opinion — with which I disagree.So in the end the idea presented does not even provide a slight benefit. The information it provides is fairly meaningless. Further, you have not mentioned anything in this entire thread that actually says otherwise.
Your argument seems to be that having more information about people engaged in debate is a bad thing and provides no benefit to those involved. If that's seriously what you believe, then you have no business telling other people their ideas are poorly thought out.
This is basically the same concept that people on reddit use every time a political debate pops up. Go through the comments history of whomever you're debating to determine whether you're dealing with a liberal/conservative so you can resort directly to bashing them personally instead of arguing the actual points. There is even a bot to help you out with that so you don't have to go through their history yourself. It's just a tool to help further the divide between all groups of people who don't fundamentally agree on every single thing in life. And it sucks. If you can't have a friendly debate given the presented arguments, then you don't have an argument of your own and lazy attack tactics aren't going to help.
You're assuming far too much here. Where did I say (or even imply) that I wanted info to use as a cudgel?
Seriously? Here you are imputing to me both motive and some hazy potential future action that may or may not happen, and you no reason to assume would ever in fact occur. "Lazy attack tactics" indeed.then you don't have an argument of your own and lazy attack tactics aren't going to help0 -
yRaven✭✭✭✭My signature [Color for faction and In Progress if not-CP] and also i'm CP810+Edited by yRaven on November 12, 2019 6:56AMJack of all trades. Master of at least one.
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Àrës - Magicka Dragonknight (EP)
Persephónē - Magicka Warden (EP)
Athēna - Magicka Templar (EP)
Hādēs - Magicka Necromancer (EP)
Hërmës - Runner Troll (EP)0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
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Your opinion. (Which you are welcome to, but please don't state it as fact.)...the idea presented in the OP was not well thought out.
While true, exception fallacy.Many of us have come across CP capped players who are very bad. We also know that many players can level up a new character to 50 in mere hours and that short time span is not enough to gain actual knowledge.
This is, again, all your opinion — with which I disagree.So in the end the idea presented does not even provide a slight benefit. The information it provides is fairly meaningless. Further, you have not mentioned anything in this entire thread that actually says otherwise.
Your argument seems to be that having more information about people engaged in debate is a bad thing and provides no benefit to those involved. If that's seriously what you believe, then you have no business telling other people their ideas are poorly thought out.
This is basically the same concept that people on reddit use every time a political debate pops up. Go through the comments history of whomever you're debating to determine whether you're dealing with a liberal/conservative so you can resort directly to bashing them personally instead of arguing the actual points. There is even a bot to help you out with that so you don't have to go through their history yourself. It's just a tool to help further the divide between all groups of people who don't fundamentally agree on every single thing in life. And it sucks. If you can't have a friendly debate given the presented arguments, then you don't have an argument of your own and lazy attack tactics aren't going to help.
You're assuming far too much here. Where did I say (or even imply) that I wanted info to use as a cudgel?
Seriously? Here you are imputing to me both motive and some hazy potential future action that may or may not happen, and you no reason to assume would ever in fact occur. "Lazy attack tactics" indeed.then you don't have an argument of your own and lazy attack tactics aren't going to help
The very Concept of making this information a Requirement means this information is needed for a specific purpose. That purpose is to identify ' where the views of the person are coming from ' , so to speak. Which causes an immediate judgement, even before the post is read.
You advertise that you want this so you can determine if the player is doing something wrong, and thus we can 'help them' be better players by knowing what character class they are using. But that is just silly. As soon as the post is tagged with the class there will be a slew of biased responses against that class - without even reading what the post was all about.
And if you think this is 'Hazy', and there is no reason to assume this would ever happen - Then you have NOT been reading Forums for very long. Every 'Nerf this' or complaint about being nerfed has Lots of class bashing from all sides.
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Ye_Olde_Crowe✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I have nothing against seeing a forum account's character classes and levels, I don't think this information would be helpful in judging if the account's user was able to judge gameplay balance of sorts.
I mean, yeah, after about five years of nearly daily playing I'm at 720-something CP, with 13 characters of all classes and races. What does that tell you? That I'm not a completionist? That I like it slow, to quote Leonard Cohen? That I'm able to judge builds and sets for certain classes, balance-wise?
Well, no, actually I'm hunter & gatherer and as such very much a completionist. And I actually don't like it slow (at least not IRL and in certain situations xD, more the 'go go go/I need backup' type
). Plus I couldn't judge if a set was fit for a certain class/build if you tied it to my face.
You would probably need a list of characters with alliance/levels/classes/skills/morphs/achievements/playtime broken down for types of content, perhaps even quests done or started and never finished, and even then what you might learn from all this is still conjecture. You will never have all necessary information, as in a player's goals and motivation, their RL situation, the food they eat (thanks for this post btw, it had me in stitches xD ) etc.
And even if you knew all that ... judging the player would still just be based on guesswork.PC EU.
=primarily PvH (Player vs. House)=2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭@barney2525 said:
The specific purpose is to know more about the people with which you are speaking.The very Concept of making this information a Requirement means this information is needed for a specific purpose. That purpose is to identify ' where the views of the person are coming from ' , so to speak. Which causes an immediate judgement, even before the post is read.
Did I? Where?You advertise that you want this so you can determine if the player is doing something wrong, and thus we can 'help them' be better players by knowing what character class they are using. But that is just silly. As soon as the post is tagged with the class there will be a slew of biased responses against that class - without even reading what the post was all about.
You imputed both the motive and the potential action specifically to me.And if you think this is 'Hazy', and there is no reason to assume this would ever happen - Then you have NOT been reading Forums for very long. Every 'Nerf this' or complaint about being nerfed has Lots of class bashing from all sides.
Edited by Langeston on November 12, 2019 7:37AM0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Most of the responses, accidentally or intentionally, misrepresented what I said in the first place in order to make their point. Pretty much all of the supposed "reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information" can be summarized as "but I know players that have leveled toons & they suck" (or the inverse) — which isn't an argument at all & it doesn't even address my point: people that have never even leveled a warden/templar/NB/sorc getting on the forums & demanding they be nerfed. What does their ability/skill level have to do with that?
1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Myself and others have responded with reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information yet you merely attack what was said with generalized statements.
The rest of the arguments fall under "but muh privacy," (which I personally find a bit silly) but if people are that concerned about people knowing what classes they play, I suppose it has [some] merit.
I'm interested in the "generalized statements" I've used to "attack what was said." Can you be more specific please?
I've already provided my rationale, it's not my problem that you have difficulty understanding it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to change their mind — I personally couldn't care less if you agree with me or not. And it's not like I expect ZOS will implement anything like this anyway, which makes me regret ever initiating this clusterf*ck of a thread in the first place.Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning, providing a basis for your opinion, it will be viewed as having very little value as is the overwhelming majority here. Unless that happens the idea is pretty much DoA. Yea, that is an opinion but one that time will likely solidify.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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What credentials are required to "talk in this forum?"@Langeston and what are Your credentials to talk in this forum ?1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Most of the responses, accidentally or intentionally, misrepresented what I said in the first place in order to make their point. Pretty much all of the supposed "reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information" can be summarized as "but I know players that have leveled toons & they suck" (or the inverse) — which isn't an argument at all & it doesn't even address my point: people that have never even leveled a warden/templar/NB/sorc getting on the forums & demanding they be nerfed. What does their ability/skill level have to do with that?
1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Myself and others have responded with reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information yet you merely attack what was said with generalized statements.
The rest of the arguments fall under "but muh privacy," (which I personally find a bit silly) but if people are that concerned about people knowing what classes they play, I suppose it has [some] merit.
I'm interested in the "generalized statements" I've used to "attack what was said." Can you be more specific please?
I've already provided my rationale, it's not my problem that you have difficulty understanding it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to change their mind — I personally couldn't care less if you agree with me or not. And it's not like I expect ZOS will implement anything like this anyway, which makes me regret ever initiating this clusterf*ck of a thread in the first place.Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning, providing a basis for your opinion, it will be viewed as having very little value as is the overwhelming majority here. Unless that happens the idea is pretty much DoA. Yea, that is an opinion but one that time will likely solidify.
1. Overall, pretty much not the case. You merely have attacked what people have said because it is not convenient to what you suggest. Nothing more and it is pretty obvious. If anyone is doing the misdirect and deflection game that is you.
2. Yes, we get that you have stated a rational and we have explained that rational is flawed. Instead of defending it you merely say that say they misrepresent what you said or some statement was a logical fallacy.
We pretty much figured out you are taking that approach of misdirection instead of defending your "rational" because you pretty much have nothing to provide. Heck, you cannot even refute the information that demonstrates how little value the suggestion would provide.
Pretty sure Zos will see this as most of us do, that it does not provide worthwhile information and they will leave things as they are. I do not care if you agree or disagree with me on any of this as time will be the test, not anyone in this thread.
Cheers and enjoy the game. If you can actually refute we have said and actually defend your rationale I would be happy to see that. If the discussion continues as it has then I will not continue wasting my time.2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Most of the responses, accidentally or intentionally, misrepresented what I said in the first place in order to make their point. Pretty much all of the supposed "reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information" can be summarized as "but I know players that have leveled toons & they suck" (or the inverse) — which isn't an argument at all & it doesn't even address my point: people that have never even leveled a warden/templar/NB/sorc getting on the forums & demanding they be nerfed. What does their ability/skill level have to do with that?
1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Myself and others have responded with reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information yet you merely attack what was said with generalized statements.
The rest of the arguments fall under "but muh privacy," (which I personally find a bit silly) but if people are that concerned about people knowing what classes they play, I suppose it has [some] merit.
I'm interested in the "generalized statements" I've used to "attack what was said." Can you be more specific please?
I've already provided my rationale, it's not my problem that you have difficulty understanding it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to change their mind — I personally couldn't care less if you agree with me or not. And it's not like I expect ZOS will implement anything like this anyway, which makes me regret ever initiating this clusterf*ck of a thread in the first place.Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning, providing a basis for your opinion, it will be viewed as having very little value as is the overwhelming majority here. Unless that happens the idea is pretty much DoA. Yea, that is an opinion but one that time will likely solidify.
1. Overall, pretty much not the case. You merely have attacked what people have said because it is not convenient to what you suggest. Nothing more and it is pretty obvious. If anyone is doing the misdirect and deflection game that is you.
2. Yes, we get that you have stated a rational and we have explained that rational is flawed. Instead of defending it you merely say that say they misrepresent what you said or some statement was a logical fallacy.
We pretty much figured out you are taking that approach of misdirection instead of defending your "rational" because you pretty much have nothing to provide. Heck, you cannot even refute the information that demonstrates how little value the suggestion would provide.
Pretty sure Zos will see this as most of us do, that it does not provide worthwhile information and they will leave things as they are. I do not care if you agree or disagree with me on any of this as time will be the test, not anyone in this thread.
Cheers and enjoy the game. If you can actually refute we have said and actually defend your rationale I would be happy to see that. If the discussion continues as it has then I will not continue wasting my time.
Good god man, conversing with you is like this.⬇️
Almost nothing you said is true.
Refute what??? You've made no factual statements, you've simply disagreed with my opinion. Do you even know what "refute" means? It means to disprove. You cannot disprove someone's opinion on whether or not something is useful to them.If you can actually refute we have said
I can't tell if you're you're being intentionally obtuse or if you're just dim, but I'm done wasting my time talking to you.Edited by Langeston on November 12, 2019 9:01AM0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And no again
Because an intelligent, well thought out comment from a new player can be a billion times better for the forum than lazy arsed drivel from hoary old timers
What with Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, my Government and a whole load more agencies monitoring all our conversations, I really don’t need another pencil neck petty dictator from Walmart hand sanitising my (or your) contributions here.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please no, I don't want to be exposed!
I mean, if my char names were all know, then..then...! Whenever I say anything, someone would like a video of me dying when I sneezed or was in a menu and say "EXP0SED." Please, no! Anything but that...!
I mean, in a game where being "good" usually involves finding the most broken things you can in the game or keeping silent about them on PTS instead of reporting them or opening a real discussion about said items or combinations, a player's stats or what another player thinks of them really matters!
In a game where you can literally run in a ball group and fight 50+ v 5 players at certain points every day and get grand overlord, alliance rank matters.
In a game where you can have someone spend 2 hours to gain a massive amount of levels and CP while you pretty much AFK, level matters.
In a game where most players don't even make their own builds and copy and paste them, leaving many sets to have questionable functions (such as unintended disorient), the gear a player is wearing matters when they talk about balance, and so does their build.
There is no possible way that something is OP and everyone knows it. No possible way! Uh-uh! No, no, no! As long as I'm winning it's fine. All fine! Then I won't be exposed on the forums! Yes, that's it! Then I can tell everyone else they're "EXP0SED" and post a video up to silence them when they try to get my crutches nerfed. Yes, that's it.
Changed my mind, please do it after all!0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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...and that's all that ought to be. No mandatary disclosure forced upon people, but let each decide on their own.Hallothiel wrote: »Some people put it in their signature...
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
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What credentials are required to "talk in this forum?"@Langeston and what are Your credentials to talk in this forum ?
I dont know. You tell me since You came up with the idea that people should have credentials for their opinion to matter. I just want to know how deep Your rabbit hole is. Like are You even qualified to tell how we should judge others people opinion ? What are Your qualifications to create statements like the one You've made in original post.Edited by Juhasow on November 12, 2019 9:34AM5 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is that many people play many classes
I don't consider that a problem at all though, as those are the people whose opinion on such matters I would actually respect. The problem is the ones that don't play other classes coming in here freaking out about mechanics that they do not understand. If we could see the level of experience each player has, we'd have a better idea of whose posts to seriously consider & whose to take with a grain of salt.
You can show others like this, that you have at minimal decent experience on all of the classes both Stamina and Magicka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obzTjzNXT6o
And people with a personal agenda will still say, you know nothing of the game. Dispite the fact you've played longer and more specs than they. Dispite you having more total account achievement points than they.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL. The question we should ask is should we take requests for a day old forum account seriously?
Something is amiss here.
Most of the responses, accidentally or intentionally, misrepresented what I said in the first place in order to make their point. Pretty much all of the supposed "reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information" can be summarized as "but I know players that have leveled toons & they suck" (or the inverse) — which isn't an argument at all & it doesn't even address my point: people that have never even leveled a warden/templar/NB/sorc getting on the forums & demanding they be nerfed. What does their ability/skill level have to do with that?
1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Myself and others have responded with reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information yet you merely attack what was said with generalized statements.
The rest of the arguments fall under "but muh privacy," (which I personally find a bit silly) but if people are that concerned about people knowing what classes they play, I suppose it has [some] merit.
I'm interested in the "generalized statements" I've used to "attack what was said." Can you be more specific please?
I've already provided my rationale, it's not my problem that you have difficulty understanding it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to change their mind — I personally couldn't care less if you agree with me or not. And it's not like I expect ZOS will implement anything like this anyway, which makes me regret ever initiating this clusterf*ck of a thread in the first place.Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning, providing a basis for your opinion, it will be viewed as having very little value as is the overwhelming majority here. Unless that happens the idea is pretty much DoA. Yea, that is an opinion but one that time will likely solidify.
1. Overall, pretty much not the case. You merely have attacked what people have said because it is not convenient to what you suggest. Nothing more and it is pretty obvious. If anyone is doing the misdirect and deflection game that is you.
2. Yes, we get that you have stated a rational and we have explained that rational is flawed. Instead of defending it you merely say that say they misrepresent what you said or some statement was a logical fallacy.
We pretty much figured out you are taking that approach of misdirection instead of defending your "rational" because you pretty much have nothing to provide. Heck, you cannot even refute the information that demonstrates how little value the suggestion would provide.
Pretty sure Zos will see this as most of us do, that it does not provide worthwhile information and they will leave things as they are. I do not care if you agree or disagree with me on any of this as time will be the test, not anyone in this thread.
Cheers and enjoy the game. If you can actually refute we have said and actually defend your rationale I would be happy to see that. If the discussion continues as it has then I will not continue wasting my time.
You've made no factual statements, .
I returned for one reason, to point out the statement I quoted is a lie. I did state a fact. A couple facts at that. You disregarded and attacked it because it was inconvenient to your opinion. Those facts demonstrated how little value the suggestion had.
So have fun with silly gifs and false statements. lol It speaks volumes for how worthwhile the suggestion actually is.4 -
Lauranae✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Well i sort of understand why would you want this.. with all the "i am sorc main but time to nerf sorcs hard" type of topics, if i had to guess.. half of them propably never played a sorc and being exposed about such would be comical gold.
But don`t think ever will happen. Would be different if we always had that, and since here could just make any forum account, like for me i got this name for forum, and then 2 game accounts with different @ name so they are really not that "linked" as would imagine.
Would propably have to show time played on each character instead of level. Max level characters are not good indicators of knowing how to play with them.
For me it would show way too much played time, several characters of all classes. Way too much time spent, like.. a lot. I wonder how much would it be all in all, if also could see time on all deleted characters that lived their time too.
Would not mind if there was some classes + time played quick info visible. But hopefully without character names. I get enough flirts already, thanks.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant. And you are correct: play time would be a better metric than level.
Playtime means nothing. I deleted numerous maxed characters on which i spend a lot of hours, but decided for many reasons to replace them. So /played means nothing for me at all
My most recent charactersAD - Chjara NB-1 -
bearbelly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning
OP wants fuel to use for shaming people who create nerf threads.
4 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Problem is that many people play many classes
I don't consider that a problem at all though, as those are the people whose opinion on such matters I would actually respect. The problem is the ones that don't play other classes coming in here freaking out about mechanics that they do not understand. If we could see the level of experience each player has, we'd have a better idea of whose posts to seriously consider & whose to take with a grain of salt.
i have 17 cp 1100 toons - 1 healplar, 4 tanks (dk, necro, stam and warden), 6 stamdps and 6 magdps, and my opinion is the last thing you should consider seriously.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)0 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Absolutely not and here is my reasons for why
1. CP level is no indication of experience or skill
2. What class or race you play has no bearing on knowledge or lack of it
3. It will create an "Elitist" environment whereby lower level player may feel their view or opinion are not valid or the higher level players could simply make any input from lower level player feel unwanted or invalid
4. What i play i up to me if you REALLY want to know simple ask
5. This forum is for ALL players new and old ALL opinions and knowledge are welcomed it does not need any validation or to be ranked by tenure.2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think people should have a modicum of experience with a class before they run around screeching for it to get nerfed — if they don't, I'm less likely to take their opinion seriously — I feel like that's common sense.
What credentials are required to "talk in this forum?"@Langeston and what are Your credentials to talk in this forum ?
I dont know. You tell me since You came up with the idea that people should have credentials for their opinion to matter. I just want to know how deep Your rabbit hole is.
It seems like you're trying to draw an equivalence between someone requesting changes to a class they neither know nor understand, and me posting an opinion that doesn't require any specific knowledge of the game whatsoever. That would be a false equivalence.
Please point to where I told anyone how they should judge other peoples opinion. I'll wait.Like are You even qualified to tell how we should judge others people opinion?
What statement in the OP specifically are you referring to? The only assertion I made is that "many people have no clue how classes other than their own favorite actually even work" — which I doubt anyone would seriously dispute.What are Your qualifications to create statements like the one You've made in original post.
Anything else I can explain for you?0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭LOL. The question we should ask is should we take requests for a day old forum account seriously?
Something is amiss here.
Most of the responses, accidentally or intentionally, misrepresented what I said in the first place in order to make their point. Pretty much all of the supposed "reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information" can be summarized as "but I know players that have leveled toons & they suck" (or the inverse) — which isn't an argument at all & it doesn't even address my point: people that have never even leveled a warden/templar/NB/sorc getting on the forums & demanding they be nerfed. What does their ability/skill level have to do with that?
1. Agreed, as can you.You can disagree all you wish. You can label comments a fallacy because that is more convenient for the idea. But the fact remains the idea proposed in the OP provides near worthless information due to the ease of leveling up a character.
2. I didn't label your argument a fallacy because it was "more convenient for the idea," I pointed it out because a logical fallacy is not an argument at all.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. Worthless in your opinion. Personally, I feel like I could derive at least some value from it.
Correct, but it does indicate that the person has actually played the class — and contrary to all the "possible exceptions" you could come up with, [most] people don't go through the tedium of fully leveling a toon to 50 just to stop playing it. Literally anyone that has a level 50 Necro has a much better understanding of the class than I, because I have never played a necro. Simple, right?Pretty much like CP indicates player skill, having a class to max level does not demonstrate the person has much knowledge of that character. That is a well known fact and I will say that at least in the OP you state nothing to suggest otherwise. Further, while I have not read each and every one of your posts I have not seen comment from you that actually presents an idea that would make the suggestion worthwhile.
OK.So until you present that information you can pretty much expect us to point out that the information provided by the suggested you made is pretty much without value. Not that we have anything to worry about as pretty sure Zos sees the lack of value in it. Not worth their effort even if it was easy for them to do.
Myself and others have responded with reasons why the suggestion does not provide valuable information yet you merely attack what was said with generalized statements.
The rest of the arguments fall under "but muh privacy," (which I personally find a bit silly) but if people are that concerned about people knowing what classes they play, I suppose it has [some] merit.
I'm interested in the "generalized statements" I've used to "attack what was said." Can you be more specific please?
I've already provided my rationale, it's not my problem that you have difficulty understanding it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to change their mind — I personally couldn't care less if you agree with me or not. And it's not like I expect ZOS will implement anything like this anyway, which makes me regret ever initiating this clusterf*ck of a thread in the first place.Point is, unless you choose to start providing actual reasoning, providing a basis for your opinion, it will be viewed as having very little value as is the overwhelming majority here. Unless that happens the idea is pretty much DoA. Yea, that is an opinion but one that time will likely solidify.
1. Overall, pretty much not the case. You merely have attacked what people have said because it is not convenient to what you suggest. Nothing more and it is pretty obvious. If anyone is doing the misdirect and deflection game that is you.
2. Yes, we get that you have stated a rational and we have explained that rational is flawed. Instead of defending it you merely say that say they misrepresent what you said or some statement was a logical fallacy.
We pretty much figured out you are taking that approach of misdirection instead of defending your "rational" because you pretty much have nothing to provide. Heck, you cannot even refute the information that demonstrates how little value the suggestion would provide.
Pretty sure Zos will see this as most of us do, that it does not provide worthwhile information and they will leave things as they are. I do not care if you agree or disagree with me on any of this as time will be the test, not anyone in this thread.
Cheers and enjoy the game. If you can actually refute we have said and actually defend your rationale I would be happy to see that. If the discussion continues as it has then I will not continue wasting my time.
You've made no factual statements, .
I returned for one reason, to point out the statement I quoted is a lie. I did state a fact. A couple facts at that. You disregarded and attacked it because it was inconvenient to your opinion. Those facts demonstrated how little value the suggestion had.
So have fun with silly gifs and false statements. lol It speaks volumes for how worthwhile the suggestion actually is.
Really. How about quoting all these fact bombs you've been dropping — I must have missed them.0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally here to poke a bit of fun on this subject, but you all know it would be good for entertainment purposes that if there was atleast an automatic function that would reveal most played class and most used sets and skills for any forum user that has the words: nerf, training wheels or cheese in their post, to expose their own hand of cards in the open.
Imagine the juicy biased views suddenly be there out in the open.
And as addition, not thinking this will ever happen, but.. imagine the entertainment value. Forums are about sharing useful information and the be entertaining while enjoying your morning coffee. Missions would be accomplished.
Edited by Moonsorrow on November 12, 2019 10:32AM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Planetside 2 has a website that displays every player's in-game rank and lifetime stats. I wouldnt mind if our forum profile had a list of our characters. Ya'll could check out mah cats and lizards.
I love planetside 2. You can *stat shame* bad players asking for selfish things.
ESO could learn A LOT from that game. And Im still waiting for 4th/mercenary faction in ESO...
(Also if you're a Miller player feel free to PM lol, I play all factions)Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 12, 2019 11:43AM0
This discussion has been closed.