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Are you okay with ESO getting on path of P2W model?
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jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesAs long as they dont sell costumes that give stat boosts I'm goodIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭onemoredragon wrote: »Will it be different if you know that it is but a marketing manipulation
Of course it is. Marketing is manipulation (just as a lot of things are if you frame it in a certain way).
But specifically focussing on marketing -- it's basically a necessity because often people aren't just going to hand over money even to support something they are using.
Furthermore, people who DO hand over money to support the game -- they get stigmatized in various ways for the amount of real money they spend. This, for example:In other games people show their cosmetics acquired by achievements here in eso people show how much they threw their moneyEdited by Dusk_Coven on November 10, 2019 8:52AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't consider this any different to the crafting bag. I honestly find it much less objectionable to the crafting bag. The pig is nice but won't change the user experience by much. The crafting bag otoh completely transforms the experience. If you don't have it you lose hours of opportunity costs and millions of coins because you're playing inventory management simulator instead of the game.
I honestly don't get the outcry about this game is "going down a p2w" path when it's been p2w for years.
Between the absolute crippling to your gameplay experience that comes with the crafting bag, to all the best sets and entire skill lines locked behind paid DLC and everything in between. You either like this approach to monetization or you don't.
It is what it is.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 10, 2019 9:20AM0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
But let me explain this 1st:
ESO Plus
- Access to all DLC game packs in the in-game Crown Store
- Free crowns for the in-game Crown Store
- Access to the Craft Bag
- Double bank space
- Bonuses to progression
- Extra furniture space
- Costume dyeing
- Double Transmutation Crystals
- Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals
Haw about this ^ Why no one is talking about this ?
But the moment ZOS introduces a +5 inventory upgrade, people lose their mind and start debating about P2W aspects of the game. To me it looks like this moment when Sony announced that Bloodborn will be released on PC, and then they got huge backlash from PS4 fanboys, so they did not published on PC. It is almost the same situation here. ESO+ users are afraid that part of their "uniqueness" will be gone.
Small tip: If some one consider this to be P2W or is afraid that game will be made on purpose to be more grindy and force you to buy "time-savers" or "convince" to un-screw you up, then it already happened the moment game went for ESO+ bank slots & craft bag.
Look at It. ZOS is developer of this game. The are the one who is designing it. And NOTHING is accidental. [snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 22, 2023 5:29PM3 -
onemoredragon✭✭✭NoDusk_Coven wrote: »Of course it is. Marketing is manipulation (just as a lot of things are if you frame it in a certain way).
But specifically focussing on marketing -- it's basically a necessity because often people aren't just going to hand over money even to support something they are using.
Furthermore, people who DO hand over money to support the game -- they get stigmatized in various ways for the amount of real money they spend. This, for example:In other games people show their cosmetics acquired by achievements here in eso people show how much they threw their money
Sure thing, I'm not saying that marketing is an absolute evil and game developers should create their products without thinking of how to profit from it.
There were times when subscriptions, in-game shops, paid in-game services were not a thing, and in my opinion, this is where the whole argument between ''payers'' and ''non-payers'' arise. The market evolves, and so do we, customers; some adapt to the changing realities, some don't. Here you'll have all kinds of attitudes, from accusing people of ''throwing their money'' and refusing to pay for the created products just out of the principle; to folks who'd happily buy anything under the ''supporting my fav game'' banner, not caring if it's p2w, p4c or just an overpriced product of low quality, for example.
PC EU @OneMoreDragon
Rakshasi Raijina, khajiit sorceror, adventurer and crafter
Keel-Neesha, argonian dragonknight tank
Asharlys, orc templar tank
Wanheda Praimfaya, nord necromancer tank
Alessia Whitegold, redguard templar 2h/bow DD
Mitsuro Naztharune, khajiit dragonknight dw/bow DD
Viannereth, bosmer warden bow/bow DD
Moraelyn of Ra'athim, dunmer necromancer magicka DD
So long as the dragonfires shall burn, to you, and to all generations, I swear that my Heart’s blood shall hold fast the Gates of Oblivion.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »[snip]
A lot of people can't imagine trying to play this game without their eso+ subscription but at the same time don't consider that a paid advantage over someone else. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I bet a lot of the complaints are coming from plus subscribers who are mad they have to make an additional purchase.
Honestly this pig is more fair to unpaid members than the crafting bag. It requires less money, and can be gifted. Which means you can get it without spending a dime of your own money. That's how I got mine. I can't use coins to get eso plus though.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 22, 2023 5:30PM2 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭onemoredragon wrote: »There were times when subscriptions, in-game shops, paid in-game services were not a thing, and in my opinion, this is where the whole argument between ''payers'' and ''non-payers'' arise.
And prior to that was rampant software piracy prior to DRM -- and which still continues despite DRM, but probably (?) having less of an impact. So players who wanted something for nothing are a part of what led to where we are. And obviously they still are.
Of course during the software piracy hey-day, non-payers didn't have a holier-than-thou attitude because they were basically criminals.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onemoredragon wrote: »For all the "it's just Pay for Convenience" folks, I have a few words. Yes, we all choose what to do with our time and money. It might even seems like an actual and proud choice of ours, eh?
To make a player use a P2W advantage (which is not present in ESO as of now), the game company has to break through peoples' resistance to this model, even contempt in some cases. There's a hard paywall that stands in front of the player - am I to pay real money and make my character stronger, or am I to wallow in misery and remain weak and unviable?
If you are suggesting Zos is trying to wear us down so we will eventually submit to P2W practices in this game I would suggest that would be incorrect. Zos is aware that if they were to cross that line into P2W the game would immediately be considered unworthy trash by serous gamers.
While I think Zos has been poorly managing this game since well before it launched this is one area I am pretty sure they have a firm understanding that if they cross it the company would forever be known for creating P2W games and the serious gaming community would become weary of playing any MMORPG they created going forward and maybe even other games. It is a very negative stigma.1 -
onemoredragon✭✭✭NoTommy_The_Gun wrote: »But the moment ZOS introduces a +5 inventory upgrade, people lose their mind and start debating about P2W aspects of the game.
I think it's kind of expected to see backlash from players when things like this are introduced to the game, so the little +5 piglet is just another scapegoat. Talking about this is actually good, some might get their reality checks out of these discussions..Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Small tip: If some one consider this to be P2W or is afraid that game will be made on purpose to be more grindy and force you to buy "time-savers" or "convince" to un-screw you up, then it already happened the moment game went for ESO+ bank slots & craft bag.
Look at It. ZOS is developer of this game. The are the one who is designing it. And NOTHING is accidental. Inventory management is deliberately designed like this to screw you over and charge you money to un-screw you. It goes like this:
"Introduce a problem and then sell a solution for it".
Cannot agree more on this, well said.
PC EU @OneMoreDragon
Rakshasi Raijina, khajiit sorceror, adventurer and crafter
Keel-Neesha, argonian dragonknight tank
Asharlys, orc templar tank
Wanheda Praimfaya, nord necromancer tank
Alessia Whitegold, redguard templar 2h/bow DD
Mitsuro Naztharune, khajiit dragonknight dw/bow DD
Viannereth, bosmer warden bow/bow DD
Moraelyn of Ra'athim, dunmer necromancer magicka DD
So long as the dragonfires shall burn, to you, and to all generations, I swear that my Heart’s blood shall hold fast the Gates of Oblivion.1 -
onemoredragon✭✭✭No
While I think Zos has been poorly managing this game since well before it launched this is one area I am pretty sure they have a firm understanding that if they cross it the company would forever be known for creating P2W games and the serious gaming community would become weary of playing any MMORPG they created going forward and maybe even other games.
I honestly cannot tell what Zos will or will not do, but I believe that things that borderline on P2W are already a wearing down factor. The closer to the line they get, the more doubt and confusion it sows in players' minds (some of them at least). I'm glad there's someone who is convinced this won't happen
PC EU @OneMoreDragon
Rakshasi Raijina, khajiit sorceror, adventurer and crafter
Keel-Neesha, argonian dragonknight tank
Asharlys, orc templar tank
Wanheda Praimfaya, nord necromancer tank
Alessia Whitegold, redguard templar 2h/bow DD
Mitsuro Naztharune, khajiit dragonknight dw/bow DD
Viannereth, bosmer warden bow/bow DD
Moraelyn of Ra'athim, dunmer necromancer magicka DD
So long as the dragonfires shall burn, to you, and to all generations, I swear that my Heart’s blood shall hold fast the Gates of Oblivion.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoTbh ive been saying this since bag space / bank space add was giving to eso+ sub then when housing came more home space then skyshards then skill lines now this new pig. Eso will sale ANYTHING for an buck and once they cant get it from the lil cut and dry lines that dont add to power of your toons they WILL add in 2% 5% 10% hell even 20% power adds why because they have an life style they now HAVE to keep getting money to feed but at every turn the white knights say oh no they wouldn't do that its just your thoughts and unjust due to something so small but the whole time missing to see the trend taking place right in front of their face with every newly added item to the store but im over it tbh im over ESO and supporting an game thats main focus is their STORE NOT performance of the game so as of 12/5/2019 subs renewing date it will be my 1st month showing that i dont support this game as i will not be added anymore time to my sub nor to the 13000+ game time hours that i have been over the last 5 years ESO is dead to me as my words are to them but in an few years when the 5% 10% power items hit the store remember this post and all the times you said it wouldn't happen 😆 😆 😆 because IT WILL.
BYE NOW ENJOY YOUR LAG AND BLUESCREENS. As ive already moved on to an game that WORKS2 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »5 more slots in your inventory isnt winning. Anything.
Its pay 4 convenience.
@ArchMikem do you honestly believe that this is going to stop at a single item that grants only 5 slots?
[snip]
No. But then I'm not weighing in on the P2W aspect, am I?
I asked a question. Does the poster in question think it will stop at one item of this type? And only of 5 slots?
Because ZOS's track history in that regard suggests that the answer should be a resounding "no".
That isn't thinking every shadow is a boogeyman. That is considering ZOS's past behaviour as a guide to new events rather than choosing to intentionally blind yourself.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 22, 2023 5:27PM1 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭I think that if ZOS had at least minimum respect to customers, then they would **** with their crownstore ideas considering a state of their game and servers. At this point purcharsing a game and ESO+ should be sufficient to maintanace a game which is not being maintanaced lol2
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Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »5 more slots in your inventory isnt winning. Anything.
Its pay 4 convenience.
@ArchMikem do you honestly believe that this is going to stop at a single item that grants only 5 slots?
Of course not. Next they will offer you a subscription in exchange for an unlimited Crafting Bag and double Bank space.
What do you mean next?
We started with a subscription. Anything that was added to the subscription was to keep people from abandoning it after ZOS showed their true colours.2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭it's not pay to win
5 extra items in your inventory gives zero advantage in battles both pve and pvp are not affected by these extra item slots.Edited by Gilvoth on November 10, 2019 3:09PM0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Woodoochill wrote: »Subject of poll: New crownstore pet which increases inventory space by 5 slots accountwide for 1200 crowns.
I am not going do discuss with anyone whether it is or it is not P2W since it clearly follows the basic idea of advantage over regular players because they are unable to acquire it without spending crowns for it (I might be mistaken but can't find in under "not collected" pets where ingame obtainable pets are but if so, this poll is meaningless).
So far the crownstore items were only affecting the appearence of characters and fastening progress on alts (sky shards completion, skill lines, etc.) because you had to complete given achievement on any char. Upgrades like Bank space and inventory space could be bought but not exceed amount of inventory available by ingame methods, same for riding lessons.
Edit: Please notice that it got its own new category of "Inventory pets" so we can expect more of them coming which means how far will it go? 10 slots? 50 slots? 100slots?
How is 5 extra slots gonna make me win? Just, how? To be pay to win, YOU NEED TO WIN. Having 5 slots do more damage? Having 5 slots protect you more? Or heal you better?
No.
No.
No.
Ok, so how is this p2w?
I only have one toon with Max bag, other have 160 only. I have the gold to expand, I just don't. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S IRRELEVANT! If 5 slots were so p2w, I think I would feel hard pressed to get my alts and babies to 200... I don't feel absolutely any difference whatsoever in gameplay between a 160 and a 200 bag. Why would 205 or 500 make a difference for that matter?
Your post is bad, arrogant ("I'm not gonna discuss how this is p2w, clearly it is" argument you made), and ultimately pointless.
I would honestly delete this and make a new one about being able to buy skill points and all lines that actually make a difference in under 50 BG and cyrodiil. Those are p2w. Ish.1 -
MagicalLija✭✭✭✭✭YesIt's pay for an easier life... for 5 slots.
Just like ESO plus. until they start making mounts which teleport and instakill people you walk into then i don't care0 -
dagrdagaz_5912✭✭✭Yes'are-you-okay-with-eso-getting-on-path-of-p2w-model'
One can argue that with ESO+ they already did.
Do i consider the pack boar pet P2W, no.
(what do i win with it?!)
Were, or how far, Zo$ is on the path to P2W with this boar pet now, i have no issue with.
It is however a tricky path.
Will Zo$ continue down this path, continuing testing (our) limits, yes probably.
Until they reach a point that i do consider Pay2Win, then i will have issue with it.0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »[snip] We gave in to these tactics and participated with our wallets by purchasing containers so we could have more item slots. But this is not P2W.
Those containers for houses could also be purchased with writ vouchers and telvar. If you spent crowns...well, I don't know what to tell you.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 22, 2023 5:26PMPC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS1 -
FakeFox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoI'm personally not okay with the crown store in general. No full price game with paid DLC should have microtransactions, but we are way past that anyway, since even single player games have microtransactions nowadays. Especially as ESO is additionally subscription based.EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thesoundofwolf wrote: »Someone had to spend money still to do the gold crown exchange lol.
Its like you are missing the point.
"Someone had to pay the money for it" doesn't make it "pay 2 win". It just makes it "pay".
(The existence of Crown Gifting greatly reduced the chances for "pay 2 win" to ever exist in this game, because it lets cash shop things be obtained by people for farmed-in-game resources. And therefore not restricted to cash spenders.)Some people need to learn what pay to win is.
This.Edited by Kiralyn2000 on November 10, 2019 4:10PM1 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pay2win: If they sell mehrunez razor in the CS, 1 light attack is instakill. If they sell a complete set of armor in the CS, gives u 500k max hp+stam+mag, 500k hp+stam+mag regen.... u get it
Not pay2win: If they sell a ugly pig as pet that gives u 5 extra inv slots where u can stash all that extra furniture u never seem to know where to place.
If you are still confused about what p2w is, go play final fantasy online, or wow or any other mmo, then u get it0 -
Delpi✭✭✭✭✭NoIt begins with a 5 slot pet (Insignificant and testing the waters) it ends with a 100-200 slot pet. What would you think then?"I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee..."0 -
Konstant_Tel_Necris✭✭✭✭✭Can we have Pay to Lose stuff back? I missed Bucket of Immortality and Broom of Doom.3 -
drkfrontiers✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesI will pay for anything that improves the comfort of my experience."One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche1
