Rampeal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

b95fister wrote: »

Just becuause there is a lot of content doesn’t mean it’s good content.

I do not think content has anything to do with it. Heck, Zos has provided the best quality new PvE content over the past few years compared to the current major MMORPGs active today. Granted, that does not mean it meets everyone's interest but is has been better than what WoW and FF have provided by far.

With playing ESO there has been a high degree of change in combat each year because Zos has not been able to make up their mind. This past year Zos has been pushing the limits of the amount of change player can handle and it has caused heavy change fatigue. As someone who has played this game for almost 6 years I can say I am tired of all these changes.

I do not Blame ZoS as much as I blame the Meta. When these streamers and youtubers come out and say that only these X,Y,Z sets are Viable and Only these X,Y,Z skills are Viable and their fan base follow the cookie cutter builds.

Soon everyone starts running the same sets and skills not only dominating pvp with them in PvP, But also PvE. And in this lies the problem. The community starts to demand you run these builds and shame you for playing your own build. It starts to alienate a majority of the community, because many don't like to be told how to play.

So ZoS comes in tries to Balance it with other skills, but they over do it so have to adjust and we get forums like this with the Cookie Cutter players complaining and it starts all over again.

It has been going this way since the first patch and will continue until the end of the game. No different than any other MMO. If you really don't like it than maybe MMOs are not for you. Because this is the nature of the beast.

Every MMORPG has meta. Every MMORPG has theorycrafters that figure out how to push playing the game to it's limits and figure out much more than the devs could even begin to imagine.

In respect to this, the only difference between ESO and every other MMORPG out there is that ESO has many more variables. Just like other major MMORPGs, players know the game better than the developers at Zos.

So the players are not the start of the problem, or any part of the problem. It is wrong to blame the theorycrafters or pawn the problem on whatever "cookie cutter" players are. The issue is Zos created a very complex game and they have yet to figure out how to mange combat. The problem has always lied at the feet of Zos devs and most specifically Matt Firor for their vision of combat in this game or lack thereof.

Rampeal wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

ESO has so much potential. So much unrealized potential. I’ve had so much love for this game since launch. In 2014, even with all the flaws, bugs, and performance issues, I thought ESO could truly be something great if it was given time as well as the proper care that an elder scrolls title deserves.

The sad truth is that the devs seem to be happy delivering 1 meager chapter and 1 small dlc story content that can be completed in a few hours by someone playing casually.

In my opinion, and I know it’s subjective, the storytelling isn’t even that good anymore. Especially if you compare it a recent expansion from a different mmo.

Two dungeons released as our quarterly “content” is laughable to me. Those dungeons should be included with a chapter or dlc zone.

Maybe my standards are to high or maybe I expect to much... but as a paying customer I do expect ZOS to at least try to hold themselves to higher standard. I really feel like ZOS just does the bare minimum. This includes story, game performance and combat balance. They’re killing it all right.

ESO: 2014

Imperial City: 2015
Orsinium: 2015

Dark Brotherhood: 2016
Thieves Guild: 2016
Shadows of the Hist: 2016

Morrowind: 2017
Clockwork City: 2017
Horns of the reach: 2017

Summerset: 2018
Murkmire: 2018
Dragon Bones: 2018
Wolf hunter: 2018

Elsweyr: 2019
Wrathstone: 2019
Scalebreaker: 2019
Dragonhold: 2019

Seems like a steady pace from 2016 to present. I just think players got spoiled with a extra dlc in 2018. Just my opinion though.

Fixed it for you. Although forgetting Scalebreaker’s existence speaks volumes about its sameness, even down to the unimaginative naming, Scalecaller, Scalebreaker?? Dragon Bones...Dragonhold? Aren’t they just the same thing?

It also reflects both the speed at which players/people get used to things and the paucity of ZOS’s imagination that what stands out this year is not 4 decent, adequately put together releases containing a single overarching storyline that is quite engaging, but the fact that to long term players it just feels like more of the same.

Has it provided me with lots of entertainment? Yes I’ve played ESO a lot this year.

Has it provided my ‘best ESO’ moment? No, that’s probably the first time 3 hour assault on vet BRF before they diminished Golbachaar,.

Is it some of my favourite content? Wrathstone is OK, but buggy as hell, Scalebreaker is fun but a return to the long run/short action dungeons, which is not a great look, Elsweyr is OK but not as fun as Summerset and I’ve had almost no time to do Dragonhold as it’s got lost in the Witches Festival.

A familiar (albeit ambitious) release schedule featuring similar globs of content ends up feeling a bit anticlimactic for long time players. I’m feeling ambition in the storylines, but nothing in terms of gaming or performance ambition overall.

It feels a bit like Apple and the iPhone, a ridiculously great idea that I love, well realised, where all the heavy lifting has been done and now we’re just talking about how fantastic it is that it’s out in 3 new colours. Meanwhile people who are getting it for the first time feel like I did a few years ago.

apri wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

And yet there are so many players the servers can’t cope.

That's true but we don't know if it's actually the amount of players that causes our daily trouble. Somehow the server infrastructure did not age with grace, did not grow with the game in the correct pace. Who knows, it could as well be all the mounts, costumes and motifs that were added that are rendered somewhere in the background. Unlike our inventory, there's no limit to mounts or costumes we own because well... it's a cash sink. That's merely speculation obviously but we won't see ZOS restrict mounts, motifs or costumes to test the impact on performance. However the nerf of abilities in desperate hope it might help does not cost anything. Unless subbed players or otherwise high spenders get upset and retire.

Turnover of players is inevitable in a long running game.

You are very true with that as well and it's needed to have fresh blood in a game. However, it looks like this is not the case on my preferred server (PS4/EU). If you observe typical hotspots like towns, trading guilds or Cyrodiil, it is quite obvious that the numbers are no more where they have been before Morrowind anymore.

Yes, at some point you get tired of a game and go on. But what about the players who like ESO and would like to keep on playing but cannot because what they want to do is not possible anymore? What about those who crash in PVP? What about those who cannot do no death dungeons/trials because lag, invisible AOE, bugs of sorts or client crashes terminate their progress and end in grand frustration? That's questions that should bother ZOS but won't. The way ESO is treated for a long while now does not look like there is much care for happy players. Happy on the pure basic level like having a game that "just works". Btw. happy players may happily spend on what they enjoy.

I don’t know that many people who are unhappy about Dragonhold. To be honest, with Witches Festival, I don’t know anyone who is actually doing anything there other than dragons. But it seems exactly what people expected in size, content type etc... basically Murkmire with cats. I haven’t done much of it, but I already like it more than Elsweyr.

That's probably a matter of perspective and expectation. The problem with Murkmire and Dragonhold is basically the same. ZOS promotes them as story DLCs but actually they are just lackluster cash cows. They offer little to no replayability in the context of this very game which is a MMO.

Once done, there's basically no reason to come back to play Murkmire or Dragonhold. No dungeons, no trials, no pvp content, basically nothing that makes a MMO a MMO. That's why I see Dragonhold's place as an update to Elsweyr, in particular because it is supposed to conclude its storyline. For a DLC of its own it offers too little for what it is charged for unless you are subbed already. But is the DLC on its own reason enough to return to the game, to reroll ESO+ or to pay 2000 crowns? The answer is highly subjective, of course. Story DLCs will have their fans and rightly so, each to their own. But the unrepresentative feedback I gather is rather negative.

And I would suggest that more people will play through Dragonhold than will play through the two associated dungeon DLC combined.

Can’t say whether they will enjoy it or not as I’ve barely scratched the surface. But you can’t say that it’s not a story DLC.

I know that a year after its release, I have probably spent more time in Murkmire than I have in SCP, Fang Lair, Moonhunter and March of Sacrifices combined. I’ve just started playing Blackrose Prison, which is fun and challenging. There seems to be a lot of replayability here.

Quickly about new content, the vast majority of which is questing content (especially with Dragonhold, since it's only questing content), I'm sorry but, when I have to have a video/show/movie running on my other monitor to keep myself engaged, because the quests are so god damn easy, they're not good. Sorry, but that's just how I feel.

The actual quests themselves are fine. Writing is good, dialogue is great, "cutscenes" are alright. But the gameplay behind these quests, and, by extension, the difficulty behind them, is so god damn braindead, that it actually causes me to just zone out while playing. When your gameplay is so unengaging, that I have to watch something else on my other monitor to keep myself awake and engaged, there's something wrong.

In the other MMO I play, GW2, I don't have this problem, because the gameplay actually requires me to pay attention to what I'm doing. I don't almost one-shot most trash mobs, I don't two-shot harder trash, I don't kill vets/elites/champions in under 10 seconds. All mobs have unique mechanics, and are threats in their own ways. Often, I'm so focused on the game, that I actually miss out what's going on in the video/show/movie/whatever, leading me to pause it to actually play. Which is how it should be.

So long as overland and questing content in ESO is this braindead, there is no good content to me, beyond the new dungeons/trials/arenas/battlegrounds. And when overland and questing content makes up the majority of a patch (or the entire game), there is a distinct lack of good content to me in these patches. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Rampeal wrote: »

StrykerGaming wrote: »

TragedyOA wrote: »

Some streamers are moving on to other games.

Well, I'm not moving on to other games. ESO is one of my favorite games I enjoy streaming. It's superior to the other fantasy games like 'Neverwinter' or 'Dungeon and Dragons Online.'

^This^

No other MMO gives you more lore than ESO. No other MMO let's you play as a werewolf or Vampire. No other MMO looks nearly as good or has better combat mechanics as ESO.

The all screaming "The End is Nigh!" Will be the first to preorder the next expansion

Lore, you've got me there. TES has a lot of lore that ESO can incorporate into new content, and, more importantly, there's room in that lore to expand. But everything else, eh. I've moved over to GW2 as my MMO of choice, and, IMO, it *** all over ESO.

Rampeal wrote: »

No other MMO let's you play as a werewolf or Vampire.

GW2 doesn't, but it does allow certain classes to transform into other forms. Necromancer is built around transforming into the personification of death, the Soulbeast elite spec of the Ranger class allows you to meld with your pets which gives you access to new abilities and allows traits/passives that would normally affect your pet to affect you, the Druid elite spec of the Ranger class allows you to transform into a celestial form giving you access to a new set of weapon skills, and more.

Rampeal wrote: »

No other MMO looks nearly as good

IMHO, GW2 beats ESO in terms of looks. Technically, ESO has the edge since GW2 is on an older graphics API that limits what it can do (DX9 for GW2 vs DX11 for ESO), but artistically, GW2 takes the cake, IMO. I get ESO's whole artistic schtick is it's trying to stay away from the typical fantasy art style of fantasy MMORPG's, but I do personally prefer the fantasy style, and GW2 has its fair share of more grounded zones and areas.

Rampeal wrote: »

has better combat mechanics as ESO.

GW2 wins easily here. While I do prefer ESO's core combat system better (action > cooldown/tab, IMO), GW2 is just in a much better place right now, combat-wise.

First and foremost, GW2 includes a few options to make it function more like an action MMO, similar to ESO, so you can take a lot of the tab targeting flavour out of it. You're still stuck with cooldowns, but most of your common attacks have fairly short cooldowns, so it's not as bad.

Secondly, GW2 has actual class identity. Each class plays completely different, with their own selection of weapon options that offer skills unique to each class (greatsword on Guardian is different to greatsword on Warrior, which is different to greatsword on Mesmer), as well as their own unique class mechanics. Class identity is so strong, that most friends who I got to try out GW2, coming from ESO, legitimately couldn't choose a class to stick with, because they were each so strong, fun and engaging in their own way.

Thirdly, GW2 is very combo focused, even more so than ESO. Not only do you have "soft" combos, where certain skills have secondary effects that make them more optimal earlier in your combo, but you also have "hard" combos, where skills will outright change their functionality based on which skill they're following. Ranger greatsword 2 can be used for heavy burst, then you can use greatsword 5 to reset your 2, allowing you to burst with your 2 again. Certain AoE's will also place down a so called combo field, where if you use a particular kind of skill (such as a projectile, or a whirl, etc), it will cause the combo field to perform an additional effect in response to the used skill.

Fourth, balance is much better in GW2, because it makes an active effort to separating stats. Direct damage uses different stats to DoT damage, which uses different stats to healing, which uses different stats to mitigation, which uses different stats to max health. You have to actually dedicate your stats towards one particular thing and be strong in that thing and weaker everywhere else, or split your stats between two or more things and be individually weaker in those things. There is no "tank that takes no damage, can heal to full in 1 button press, while also being able to 2-shot me". The closest thing is just people who play well and can actively prevent you from fighting back, but if you do, you have an actual chance against them, unlike here in ESO.

Vapirko wrote: »

I left to play Destiny 2 about a month ago and even though it lacks the community, large scale PvP and depth of ESO in terms of story line, I cannot muster the patience to boot up ESO again. I’ve tried a few times and have been immediately turned off by PvP performance, outdated graphics and sluggish combat.

Honestly feel like this can apply to any game you use to leave ESO behind. Exact same story with me and GW2. Left to try out other games, tried a few out (Albion, ArcheAge, Destiny 2, GW2, a few more), stuck with GW2 (and D2 on the side), immediately realised how much better it was than ESO, and how cheaply ESO really had been made.

Also tried to come back a few times, just like you, immediately left because I just got frustrated right out of the gate. Between performance, bugs (skills not firing is a massive one I have problems with), gameplay going in a garbage direction, content options dwindling over time (PCNA Sotha is dead which leaves me with Vivec, which I get extreme lag on, BGs are also dead between bugs and horrible meta after horrible meta), shitcans constantly being empowered, etc.

Aurielle wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I stopped believing people saying “this game is going to die” as I am a SWTOR player and have been hearing similar quotes since 2012 - present. ESO’s playerbase is fine right now.

ESO’s playerbase is “fine” because the developers and powers that be are quite clearly catering to the casual crowd that plays the game for a month or two, only to be replaced by more casuals. They’re no longer interested in long-term player retention. ESO is a great game if solo questing and cosmetics is all you care about.

I miss what this game once was. Some of my most enjoyable PVP moments over 29 years of gaming occurred in Cyrodiil circa about two years ago. When performance problems make your preferred game mode completely unplayable, it’s hard to justify logging in and spending money on this game.

Yep, honestly feel that once the game leaves the spotlight (it has been under the spotlight for a while now, even since before Elsweyr's launch, though Elsweyr also opened the floodgates even wider), a lot of these people saying that the playerbase is "fine" will suddenly go "where'd everyone go?"

The playerbase seems "fine" because of exactly what you said. The game is currently in the spotlight, the issues it has are currently only really applicable to vets and people just getting into end game content (though if they remain unaddressed, it can definitely affect casuals, all the same), and between these two, casuals keep coming in, staying for a few months, and either moving on, or committing until they realise the horrible state the game is in for vets.