returning player thoughts, PVP.

Urzigurumash · November 2019

A summary of all these nerf heavy posts:

People who have never played with more than 400 hp regen didn't realize how great the change to 7th was.

BRogueNZ · November 2019

so a subtle stamina buff?

Urzigurumash · November 2019

Firstmep wrote: »

The tank meta is here to stay, at least in Cyrodiil.
Why would zerg/large group players build glass cannon builds, when they can just survive through everything, sustain through everything and when its 20v1 they will win anyways.

Yep. Nerf heavy, we'll add more healers. Nerf healers, we'll add more heavy back in. Round and round

You want instant results, flip a coin

Urzigurumash · November 2019

To be clear I'm all for a dimuntion of TTK. I say do away with Battle Spirit altogether and we can catch people with their shields down and one shot them. Do all these nerf demanders really think the 12% healing received and additional resistances of Heavy are the sole reasonsof obnoxiously long TTKs?

Why would a heavily armored warrior not be the meta for a mode centered around sieging castles? Heavy armor offense is practically an invalid idea in any other content in this game

Mayrael · November 2019

Rampeal wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

You know I retract my statements on the tanks. The perfect balance is to raise the resist cap by 10k. Which means you will have to have 42-43k for that 50% dmg resist. This would solve alot of issues.

You wanna be tanky? You have to spec more into Dmg resist. Which means less focus on dps.

Then I have another idea.

1. Each 1% of damage mitigation reduces your damage done by 1%.
2. Each 1% more damage (doesn't matter is it comes from pure damage stat or from max mag/stam) reduces your healing done and health regen.
3. Introduce new stat healing power. It increases potency of your heals but each 1% increase reduces your damage and mitigation by 0,5% stam and magicka recovery by 1%.

(1% increase from pure base stats, no gear, no attribute points, nothing)

Boom your problems are solved, you don't need to track 200 sets combinations, CPs, potions, skills.

ku5h · November 2019

Cirantille wrote: »

Wot
What tank
What is even the logic behind becoming a tank in pvp
What are you going to taunt
Npc s at castle doors
Lol

Tank playstyle got it's name due to ability to absorb "tank" *** ton of incoming damage, not because you taunt stuff.
In PvP ability to absorb *** ton of damage is very beneficial. Especially when trough specific sets you have the ability to turn around and dish out huge burst with your ult combo. Thus tank meta.
Don't lol at stuff you don't understand.

Urzigurumash · November 2019

Rampeal wrote: »

Tanks used to have a purpose. Defend flags and such. But now when DPS is running around with max resist cap it is pointless. Tanks used to be able to take on 4 to 5 player with no problem and not die, but now they can't even take on one.

You are quite right. If you're willing to suggest that Medium and Light self-healing should be reduced as much as Heavy damage should be reduced, you're being reasonable and don't appear to be as biased as others calling for nerfs to Heavy and buffs to Medium and Light.

When "DDs" have almost as much resistance and often better healing than "tanks" (not just due to higher weapon/spell damage but also sustain for heals and shields), what's the point of tanking? There is no incentive to try and draw damage towards me and away from my teammates when they can handle the damage almost as well as I can. Vanguard's Challenge just doesn't cut it.

Despite this, it seems like a simplification of combat, doesn't it? Reducing all of PvP to the 3 dungeon finder roles? Surely you understand how oppressively narrow the meta is for PvE. You really want that for Cyro?

I understand this is an MMO, but the terms Tank / DD / Healer, to my knowledge, didn't exist in Tamriel from 1994-2014.

Mayrael · November 2019

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

Tanks used to have a purpose. Defend flags and such. But now when DPS is running around with max resist cap it is pointless. Tanks used to be able to take on 4 to 5 player with no problem and not die, but now they can't even take on one.

You are quite right. If you're willing to suggest that Medium and Light self-healing should be reduced as much as Heavy damage should be reduced, you're being reasonable and don't appear to be as biased as others calling for nerfs to Heavy and buffs to Medium and Light.

When "DDs" have almost as much resistance and often better healing than "tanks" (not just due to higher weapon/spell damage but also sustain for heals and shields), what's the point of tanking? There is no incentive to try and draw damage towards me and away from my teammates when they can handle the damage almost as well as I can. Vanguard's Challenge just doesn't cut it.

Despite this, it seems like a simplification of combat, doesn't it? Reducing all of PvP to the 3 dungeon finder roles? Surely you understand how oppressively narrow the meta is for PvE. You really want that for Cyro?

I understand this is an MMO, but the terms Tank / DD / Healer, to my knowledge, didn't exist in Tamriel from 1994-2014.

This guy gets it. My last build using 5LA/1H/1M has 3% less mitigation than full Heavy armor at cap and have 8500 effective spell damage. Yeah, definitely HA needs nerf lol.

Qbiken · November 2019

As long as you can have the same survivability + damage in light/medium as in heavy, heavy armor doesn't need any nerfs. And we definitely don't need debuffs for wearing certain types of armor, that is top 5 most *** suggestion I've heard.

The amount of excuses people come up with these days in the forum are unreal....

Urzigurumash · November 2019

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

This guy gets it. My last build using 5LA/1H/1M has 3% less mitigation than full Heavy armor at cap and have 8500 effective spell damage. Yeah, definitely HA needs nerf lol.

I can sympathize with their frustration. I suspect many of them have quite a bit of fun in things other than CP Cyro wearing medium or light, they come to CP Cyro and get melted and are advised by those who live in Cyro to try wearing heavy.

They leave with the impression that the reason they are unsuccessful in Medium or Light is that Heavy is overpowered in Cyro, neglecting to consider that perhaps their playstyle is simply not accommodated by Medium or Light in CP Cyro.

What do you want to be, an archer (lightly armored ranged) or a warrior (heavily armored melee)? Few and far between are skilled enough to cut it as a ninja (ie lightly-armored melee).

Urzigurumash · November 2019

But those skilled ninjas do exist, and they outheal, outrun, and outdamage "tanks" quite easily.

I'm sure others have different experiences, but my ability in 5 heavy to successfully duel a ninja or wizard has never been lower than in the last few patches.

Granted I'm on console so I may be speaking from an outdated perspective.

Urzigurumash · November 2019

I also suspect many of these posters have not tried a 7 Heavy run of VMA.

Urzigurumash · November 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

The amount of excuses people come up with these days in the forum are unreal....

Not to mention them trying to force these Geneva Convention like standards about what's virtuous and not in PvP. I guess they never played that old tabletop miniature game that reminded its players:

"Victory needs no excuse, and defeat allows none"

Darkenarlol · November 2019

even if one day it will happen

we'll have all sort of threads like

"dd meta toxic cancer shoud go"

P.S. l2p

Sarousse · November 2019

Single target heals were severely upped in scalebreaker, as dots were too.

Dragonhold came out, dots were nerfed, not heals.

At to this the new 5k armor pots stacking with everything and you've got the worse situation ever in Cyrodiil.

Mayrael · November 2019

Sarousse wrote: »

Single target heals were severely upped in scalebreaker, as dots were too.

Dragonhold came out, dots were nerfed, not heals.

At to this the new 5k armor pots stacking with everything and you've got the worse situation ever in Cyrodiil.

Exactly, then why blame HA?

Edit:
Just to make sure, I don't care if HA gets nerfed, its just dumb to blame things that have nothing to do with actual issue, as it will lead to creating imbalance while the problem will still be here. If some of you want to nerf tanks ability to do damage, then we should also nerf DDs ability to heal. Just saying.

Huyen · November 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

You know I retract my statements on the tanks. The perfect balance is to raise the resist cap by 10k. Which means you will have to have 42-43k for that 50% dmg resist. This would solve alot of issues.

You wanna be tanky? You have to spec more into Dmg resist. Which means less focus on dps.

Then I have another idea.

1. Each 1% of damage mitigation reduces your damage done by 1%.
2. Each 1% more damage (doesn't matter is it comes from pure damage stat or from max mag/stam) reduces your healing done and health regen.
3. Introduce new stat healing power. It increases potency of your heals but each 1% increase reduces your damage and mitigation by 0,5% stam and magicka recovery by 1%.

(1% increase from pure base stats, no gear, no attribute points, nothing)

Boom your problems are solved, you don't need to track 200 sets combinations, CPs, potions, skills.

They tried this system you are proposing in WoW. Didnt work very well...

Mayrael · November 2019

Huyen wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

You know I retract my statements on the tanks. The perfect balance is to raise the resist cap by 10k. Which means you will have to have 42-43k for that 50% dmg resist. This would solve alot of issues.

You wanna be tanky? You have to spec more into Dmg resist. Which means less focus on dps.

Then I have another idea.

1. Each 1% of damage mitigation reduces your damage done by 1%.
2. Each 1% more damage (doesn't matter is it comes from pure damage stat or from max mag/stam) reduces your healing done and health regen.
3. Introduce new stat healing power. It increases potency of your heals but each 1% increase reduces your damage and mitigation by 0,5% stam and magicka recovery by 1%.

(1% increase from pure base stats, no gear, no attribute points, nothing)

Boom your problems are solved, you don't need to track 200 sets combinations, CPs, potions, skills.

They tried this system you are proposing in WoW. Didnt work very well...

ESO =/= WoW - completly different gameplay, combat mechanics, build options etc. etc. Just because rocket engine doesn't work well in cars you can't asume it won't work in plane.

redlink1979 · November 2019

oneway123 wrote: »

...the tank meta needs to end!!!...

Everyone plays the same because no one likes/wants to loose/die...

Mayrael · November 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

oneway123 wrote: »

...the tank meta needs to end!!!...

Everyone plays the same because no one likes/wants to loose/die...

No, just the people who know how to make efficient builds. You know what will change after nerfing HA? Completly nothing. Because even now many of those "tanky" builds are in real Light or Medium based. And even if some of them is based on HA, those people will still be able to find best edge between resistances/damage and sustain.

Till this day, I have seen just ONE video made by a well known streamer that contained one of those builds... And you know what? Most people in coments said it's trash build. You know why? Because we have tons of "theory crafters" and just few people who actually test those things in combat - forum warriors including.

People are simply copy/pasting builds from YT, and then they wonder why it doesn't work? Because most of those builds is trash, or things that have limited usage.

Edit:
Example from my experience. Ive made two builds that were almost the same in build editor. One had a bit more damage and sustain, second one was a bit more tanky. Difference was like 3-4% in resistances and 500 effective spell damage. Guess what? When I took both of them into the field, the difference was so stunning that I wasn't sure whats happening. I thought it was some bug, but no, the way some builds work are not just about pure stats, but about how they synergize with your skills and sets you use.

Rampeal · November 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

You know I retract my statements on the tanks. The perfect balance is to raise the resist cap by 10k. Which means you will have to have 42-43k for that 50% dmg resist. This would solve alot of issues.

You wanna be tanky? You have to spec more into Dmg resist. Which means less focus on dps.

Then I have another idea.

1. Each 1% of damage mitigation reduces your damage done by 1%.
2. Each 1% more damage (doesn't matter is it comes from pure damage stat or from max mag/stam) reduces your healing done and health regen.
3. Introduce new stat healing power. It increases potency of your heals but each 1% increase reduces your damage and mitigation by 0,5% stam and magicka recovery by 1%.

(1% increase from pure base stats, no gear, no attribute points, nothing)

Boom your problems are solved, you don't need to track 200 sets combinations, CPs, potions, skills.

I Agree, I always thought healing based off of weapon/ Spell damage was stupid. It is called Damage for a Reason.

Although if they did do that I would suggest raising the resist cap to 70%. Then those that want to be that unmovable tank can be at the cost of 70% of their DPS

Raudgrani · November 2019

"Tanks" are there to... Tank you. If you fall for that, they will THANK you.

Don't wear down your controller and waste your time trying to get to their juicy health bar. Focus on the ones they are trying to draw your attention away from. If you have problems with tankY players, well pick easier targets or figure out a way to snap them down.

I've had some success with Graveyard, Entropy, Soultrap and vamp drain (yes, I have only been playing magcro recently). Just drain them as soon as CC immunity is gone, and they will eventually mess up. Combined with petty bursts from tossing skulls, it sort of works - even on a supposedly worthless class as magicka necromancer. Yes, those dot's are useless now since a couple of days (40% nerf...), and I haven't even tried to play after this. But just as an example.

NeillMcAttack · November 2019

CP is, and always was, the problem. They broke PvP a long time ago and the devs have been firefighting ever since.

It’s not a heavy armor meta, some specs can utilize it well, but the problem in CP PvP is the insane sustain, bigger stats, increased healing received/done etc. they all lead to having tank like stats with little to no effect on damage. This then means that to have just a minimal amount of extra damage, because of how CP trees are structured (where they are and how top heavy they are), you give up tons of sustain and survivability.

Any fixes lay in addressing the CP system as a whole.

My suggestion would be to make it so that the ‘increase physical damage’ star is in the same tree as the ‘ reduce physical damage’ stars. Make people choose between increase healing done and received, and make those that are counter to each other have scaling effects on each other. For example, remove or reduce the massive scaling drop off and have it so that only stars counter to each other make the opposing counter have a scaling effect. At least I hope that is where they will go with this CP overhaul they are eluding to often.

TequilaFire · November 2019

Here we go again wah, wah, wah from players that don't know how to counter mitigation and want to kill instantly by pressing one button.

Darsaga · November 2019

Heavy armor isn’t the problem. It’s %protection builds and NOT the uptime, for some reason they are nerfing uptime and gutting sets. They just need to reduce the max obtainable percent. Also performance is so bad even zergs that spam one button are complaining.

Mayrael · November 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Here we go again wah, wah, wah from players that don't know how to counter mitigation and want to kill instantly by pressing one button.

Yeah... Because it doesn't look cool on your stream/vid if you need to fight someone 2 minutes to win. Its more fun to kill someone with things that have no counter play like dizzy into onslaught, executioner or 4 dots with 25k tooltip each.

This is the biggest part that have changed in this patch. ZOS has nerfed most abused skills and suddenly population of "pro" PvPers dropped.

NBrookus · November 2019

Darkenarlol wrote: »

even if one day it will happen

we'll have all sort of threads like

"dd meta toxic cancer shoud go"

P.S. l2p

We've had them. Several times, as the meta waxes and wanes. And then when TTC drops so that people even in good builds are getting 1 shot (by combo, I mean), people complain about gankers.

Of course we could make siege scale with spell and weapon damage.

Kadoin · November 2019

scubasteve28 wrote: »

Problem isn't heavy armor. It's healing. They buffed heals, and buffed damage. Then they nerfed damage. I play medium on Stam dk and have an easy time out healing most damage.

Only HoTs, and only vigor and regeneration need nerfing if any. The other ones should have received a cost increase and/or been nerfed already (healing springs). Weren't ground HoTs cost also increased because almost all of them have base skills that do damage?.