returning player thoughts, PVP.

oneway123 · November 2019

PvP in this game is in bad shape, the tank meta needs to end!!! IMO just add; Battle spirit, -20% damage and sustain to ALL 5 piece heavy builds adjust % as needed. If 5 piece heavy is not fixed or toned down a bit, PVP never gets better! Cast times on ulti's is just a bad idea! Just admit its bad and revert it! I really don't wanna see this game fail but it really gets harder to continue playing these days. P.S. your not supposed to live forever in PVP. Dying is part of the game and what makes it challenging and fun!

xWarbrain · November 2019

Just walk past people that wear heavy / have over 45k health.

If they are a threat to you, you're doing it wrong.

oneway123 · November 2019

let me be clear sorry, this is not about actually tanks! its the tanky meta, there is no reason NOT to wear 5 heavy. That's what needs to change, either some better bonuses for Light and med or debuffs for heavy via Battle spirit. Everyone tanky with the ability to have great dps/healing/sustain is just bad!

mague · November 2019

I use 5 light

Blinkin8r · November 2019

The tanky meta is aids. But even worse than that is performance. "wE fIxEd MeMoRy FrAgMeNtAtIoN" they said. "It WiLl ReSuLt In An FpS iNcReAsE oN cOnSoLe" they said. Most abysmal fps drops i've seen on console to date last night.

BloodSkull_ESO · November 2019

don't even bother pvp is dying in this game

Ryanoxx · November 2019

Battle spirit -20% damage isn't a good idea since it will delete all builds that aren't building for tankability. Heavyarmor passives aren't as strong. The problem is you can still build a ton of damage in heavy. Just delete the resistance potion, it is way to easy to reach more than 40k resistances buffed while running full damage sets + bloodspawn. Bloodspawn itself is a pretty good and well balanced set but everything combined just is too much. Idk why the resistance potion stacks with the resistance buff, who had that idea? The heavyarmor passive that gives more ressources back if you heavy attack can be nerfed a little bit but the main problem are stamina classes in heavy. Most (not all!) magicka classes in heavy do not overperform. Cast times on ults are the worst idea I agree. I would vote for a health cap. Everything over 25k health will be cut in half in PvP. Instead of 40k health someone would only have 32.5k health... still a lot but players would have to sacrifice more to reach that high tankiness. Instead of nerfing heavyarmor passives bring down the resistance value of every piece just a little bit. I think there are many possible solutions and zenimax just needs to think rational, not randomly nerf everyone and everything and choose something and adjust step by step and not nerf something so much that it isn't viable anymore and then next patch buff it so much that it's overperforming and then nerf it again because it's too strong... not the way to do it!

Cirantille · November 2019

Wot
What tank
What is even the logic behind becoming a tank in pvp
What are you going to taunt
Npc s at castle doors
Lol

ChunkyCat · November 2019

5 light is tankier than 5 heavy.

Unless you potato.

Van_Winkle · November 2019

Tank meta? This unkillable guys with great damage, great sustain and great survivability live so long not because heavy armor, that was nerfed to the ground long ago.

scubasteve28 · November 2019

Problem isn't heavy armor. It's healing. They buffed heals, and buffed damage. Then they nerfed damage. I play medium on Stam dk and have an easy time out healing most damage.

NeillMcAttack · November 2019

CP PvP has been boring tank v tank fights for the longest time. What changed this patch that everyone is suddenly complaining again?

probabkyravi · November 2019

Server not good enough for competetive PvP this year, try next year.

Ryanoxx · November 2019

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

CP PvP has been boring tank v tank fights for the longest time. What changed this patch that everyone is suddenly complaining again?

5.3k more resistances through potion.

Firstmep · November 2019

The tank meta is here to stay, at least in Cyrodiil.
Why would zerg/large group players build glass cannon builds, when they can just survive through everything, sustain through everything and when its 20v1 they will win anyways.

EmEm_Oh · November 2019

By nature, pvp means some are more op than others...some not. If it's something other than this, then the person probably knows the latest metas...or needs more practice in pvp if it's just the opposite.

MyPrist · November 2019

Cirantille wrote: »

Wot
What tank
What is even the logic behind becoming a tank in pvp
What are you going to taunt
Npc s at castle doors
Lol

They will taunt the castle doors.

Mayrael · November 2019

Then die OP. I am playing LA magica NB and still refuse to die.

I think that "returning" player should first play a bit like at least 2 months to adapt to changes, test builds and skills and then come here and ask for any changes. But this attitude of people who are new to the game (yes new, because someone who had even a 1 year of break in ESO returns to completly different game) and demand immediately nerfs to things they don't like is so common these days...

You ask for nerfs, and you don't even know where to aim nerf hammer.

Kel · November 2019

scubasteve28 wrote: »

Problem isn't heavy armor. It's healing. They buffed heals, and buffed damage. Then they nerfed damage. I play medium on Stam dk and have an easy time out healing most damage.

This. It's healing.
The reason ball groups don't go down easy is they run 4 or 5 healers. The damage dealers are squishy AF if you catch them away from the healers. There was a group of 6 healers the other day, running with just 3 DD's and they were wrecking bigger groups.

It's healing....not tanks or heavy armor so much.
Damage was nerfed to hell and healing wasn't changed.

Edit: And no, I'm not asking for healing nerfs, since PvE and PvP aren't separately balanced. Damage needs to be good enough to make a difference, however, and right now that just isn't the case.

fred4 · November 2019

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Battle spirit -20% damage isn't a good idea since it will delete all builds that aren't building for tankability.

I think he was suggesting -20% damage and sustain for heavy armor builds only. In my experience magicka builds tend to prefer light anyway, for reasons such as shields and the damage loss being quite severe in heavy. What it would do is encourage stamina players to use medium armor.

Heavyarmor passives aren't as strong.

I am really unsure what makes heavy armor so strong. It's more than the resistances. It feels tankier than, say, medium pre-nerf Fortified Brass. It may have to do with the healing and the actual sets. For example Swift mundus + gold food + Seventh Legion + plain old tri pots gets you to 2K+ health regen without Troll King.

The problem is you can still build a ton of damage in heavy.

Yep. I think we're all in agreement there, you, me and the OP. Basically delete Fury, Seventh Legion and Ravager from the game. Job done ... maybe.

Just delete the resistance potion

Or make it not stack.

it is way to easy to reach more than 40k resistances buffed while running full damage sets + bloodspawn. Bloodspawn itself is a pretty good and well balanced set but everything combined just is too much.

Blood Spawn doesn't feel great as a mitigation set, due to lowish uptime. Not in the same league as Troll King or the old Pirate Skeleton or even 2x resistance pieces. That said, it is true to say additional resistance feels better when you already have a lot, probably because it's only stuff above the 15K pen a player might have that actually counts. Unless Onslaught.

Idk why the resistance potion stacks with the resistance buff, who had that idea?

Exactly.

... the main problem are stamina classes in heavy. Most (not all!) magicka classes in heavy do not overperform.

Agreed. Fury (cough), Seventh (cough), Ravager (cough).

Indoril_Nerevar · November 2019

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE RATIOS

You can deliver more damage in this game, than you can defend.

You can heal for more over time, than you can damage; because of defense.

You can heal for more than you can resist.

The Damage to Healing to Defense ratios are NOT equal.

It is a simple logic that many fail to realize. It remains evident and always will.

Ryanoxx · November 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Battle spirit -20% damage isn't a good idea since it will delete all builds that aren't building for tankability.

I think he was suggesting -20% damage and sustain for heavy armor builds only. In my experience magicka builds tend to prefer light anyway, for reasons such as shields and the damage loss being quite severe in heavy. What it would do is encourage stamina players to use medium armor.

Heavyarmor passives aren't as strong.

I am really unsure what makes heavy armor so strong. It's more than the resistances. It feels tankier than, say, medium pre-nerf Fortified Brass. It may have to do with the healing and the actual sets. For example Swift mundus + gold food + Seventh Legion + plain old tri pots gets you to 2K+ health regen without Troll King.

The problem is you can still build a ton of damage in heavy.

Yep. I think we're all in agreement there, you, me and the OP. Basically delete Fury, Seventh Legion and Ravager from the game. Job done ... maybe.

Just delete the resistance potion

Or make it not stack.

it is way to easy to reach more than 40k resistances buffed while running full damage sets + bloodspawn. Bloodspawn itself is a pretty good and well balanced set but everything combined just is too much.

Blood Spawn doesn't feel great as a mitigation set, due to lowish uptime. Not in the same league as Troll King or the old Pirate Skeleton or even 2x resistance pieces. That said, it is true to say additional resistance feels better when you already have a lot, probably because it's only stuff above the 15K pen a player might have that actually counts. Unless Onslaught.

Idk why the resistance potion stacks with the resistance buff, who had that idea?

Exactly.

... the main problem are stamina classes in heavy. Most (not all!) magicka classes in heavy do not overperform.

Agreed. Fury (cough), Seventh (cough), Ravager (cough).

Ye you're right, I didnt read that right, he was refering to heavyarmor and not battle spirit in general. With delete the potion I mean't making it not stack with the resistance Buff... which is deleting it because no one would have a reason to use it anymore. The problem with heavy is that stamina Characters have many HoTs and together with the resistances it keeps your health up. In medium thats not a problem because their resistance isn't as high and you can burst them down faster than the heals overtime can heal them so they have to rely on rally for burstheals and have to play more defensive and kite. Bloodspawn was just an example here, there are many options to stack resistances as you mentioned, I think bloodspawn is fine and actually one of the most balanced sets due to the cooldown. It's useful but does not break the game. The problem right now is that it's easy to reach 40k resistances and the average player probably has 13-15k pen or even less if they don't have breach or fracture. That way players can still be at cap after pen. I think it shouldn't be possible to go over the cap, it makes no sense.

Indoril_Nerevar · November 2019

Indeed.

I would like to highlight something mentioned above - the cap on resistences.

I own mostly Max HP Tanks. I believe they are what is the best for Tank Roles or "meta" as some put it but not Meta to its definition; more so its power.

I own Max HP Tanks on All Classes and they are all between 65k - to 85k Health Points.

These builds of mine also have 32k resistences naturally and therefore, can go higher up to about 40k.

Damage shields in PvP absorb 15k - 20k Each. I can usually put up 2 or 3 while reducing damage done, and recieved.
30k dmg shields in PvE. Some classes will grant you other damage shields but they may not be as high but still affective stacked with stronger ones.
And all those numbers go crazier on a Necromancer or a DK with Dragon Leap.

I agree with you.

But, if the resistence CAP is 32k and we can not exceed it in your newfoundcase...

This means that we can always bring it back to CAP at 32k by simply using a buff that would do so; increase your resistences. So, in the end - the equation remains the same.

It doesnt matter if it can be exceeded if the game only processes 32k resistences as the cap already. Even if we can't go above this cap, you can sure as hell know that it will go back to 32k when someone lowers it with a debuff, because we can just use the same buffs we did to get it past 32k.......

The solution to the problem is to balance the Ratios. If I can drop 80k Damage, than you and him or that guy over there should also be able to heal or defend from just as much and at the same rate. But this is not the case.

And that is why a lot of people just use the same gear as the next guy who runs past you. Thats why people run around with the same classes. It's so trendy its offendy LOL

My favourite thing in this game is to win a duel and then see the person type back to you after they lost:

"Just a sec. Swapping gear."

Kalante · November 2019

xWarbrain wrote: »

Just walk past people that wear heavy / have over 45k health.

If they are a threat to you, you're doing it wrong.

So i just skip 90% of the players ok got it. How fun.

Indoril_Nerevar · November 2019

I should also have mentioned that I own;

Nord
Templar
32k resistences
4k Spell Damage

So, I very much agree with your take on capping resistences in that sense but it would be awkward.

chrightt · November 2019

By the way you can also try no-CP like BG. IMHO much more fun than Cyrodiil atm especially cause HoT got bugged but not nerfed this patch. Screw the BG haters, they usually just not good enough to compete without CP supporting their defense or complain that people huddle up and no one dies especially in pre made groups. Reality is that unless you hit the highest MMR you won’t even see a lot of these issues and even at higher MMR people do die a lot more than they would if the teams met in cyrodiil.

Rampeal · November 2019

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Mayrael · November 2019

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

Rampeal · November 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

Actually in a way yes. I think that weapon and spell damage stats should not effect healing at all. Healing should be based purely on stamina and magicka alone.

Rampeal · November 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

5pc HA set should give you -20% damage. Remove all sets that give you Weapon/Spell Dmg, restricted HA Crafted Weapon/Spell dmg sets. This is the only way you would ever kill tank meta.

On the other hand if they did this Tanks should get a 20% dmg reduction.

Because tanks are meant to be ya know TANKS. Take on 4-5 players, yet do no damage lol

Yes and damage dealers are meant to deal damage not heal them selves, offensive stats should lower the healing done. Make healers great again. That's your logic, you're going to accept it?

Edit:
ESO is not a usual MMO with standard trinity DD/Tank/Heal. You need to balance all three, boot just "kill" tank meta, because of by that logic, tank should only tank, healers should only heal and DDs should only deal damage. But you want to remove damage from tanks, but leave a bit of tankyness on DDs and healers.

You know I retract my statements on the tanks. The perfect balance is to raise the resist cap by 10k. Which means you will have to have 42-43k for that 50% dmg resist. This would solve alot of issues.

You wanna be tanky? You have to spec more into Dmg resist. Which means less focus on dps.

Rampeal · November 2019

Cirantille wrote: »

Wot
What tank
What is even the logic behind becoming a tank in pvp
What are you going to taunt
Npc s at castle doors
Lol

Tanks used to have a purpose. Defend flags and such. But now when DPS is running around with max resist cap it is pointless. Tanks used to be able to take on 4 to 5 player with no problem and not die, but now they can't even take on one.