In NO CP shields aren't worth much at all as you've pointed out.

They're curving to stats lower than heals and no longer have any advantage over a heal/HoT

In No CP the investment to get a mediocre shield is high, too high imo.

I agree with the above comments

Even on cloak (shadowy disguise) spamming builds healing ward is very underwhelming currently, because it often disappears within a single gcd between casting the ward and cloak and before the healing actually starts ticking, so it is better to just cast rr followed by cloak - saves bar space and magicka and is a lot more reliable - as long there aren't other players nearby ...

Except that 40k magicka dampen is actually ~8k i totally agree with everything

It's weird, cuz the bonus from light armor isnt shown in skill tooltip, even after using skill (which have place with mag return from harness, after casting it shows actual magicka return)

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

You all know healing ward/ward Ally also scales with spell damage right? So I am not really sure what no cp has to do with it.

Bastion?

so in CP is very useful, and in no CP is useless. Why do you think this? because Bastion CP?

if yes, a solution will be to nerf Bastion and buff the base skill. Enough math to keep the same value in CP but have higher value in no CP

As a magblade I agree. I am really struggling to defend, even with Blackrose resto, when Cloak is not working. Templar is IMO ridiculously overtuned vs magblade. It's fine that there should be counters to cloak and it's fine that Sweeps / Jabs should have high damage due to how clunky the skill is. I've played templar and know it is not (as) OP against other classes. Still, I have an issue with a spammable (Sweeps) that has a 12K unbuffed tooltip in any middle of the road build, that is also an AOE, that also heals, that frequently crits me (in CP) for 2K+ per hit and that procs Burning Light on top.

(A cloaking) magblade has not had good defenses for a very long time outside of mobility. What bugs me about this is that Toppling Charge and one to two Sweeps can kill me and it's not an ultimate combo, it's just a gap closer and a spammable. You might say "build tankier", but it's not really an option, if you want to do damage. Magblades, tell me you can get Swallow Soul or Concealed to 12K, like Sweeps, and what it took to get there. If that includes Soul Harvest, let me remind you that templars have an equally cheap ultimate that deals additional damage at the same time as their other skills.

When people were crying about shield-stacking sorcs, magblades were just getting by. A long time ago magblades were the kings of attacking while healing. That was when cloak made everything crit, when Funnel Health could double-crit and so on. Sometimes ZOS consciously balance things. Somtimes they fix bugs, seemingly without a second thought, even though that results in huge balance changes. Those crit changes nerfed magblade healing and they relied on Healing Ward ever since. There is still a healing while attacking theme with Siphoning Attacks. It's just not very strong. Other classes seem to do it better, particularly magden.

Sergykid wrote: »

so in CP is very useful, and in no CP is useless. Why do you think this? because Bastion CP?

if yes, a solution will be to nerf Bastion and buff the base skill. Enough math to keep the same value in CP but have higher value in no CP

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

You all know healing ward/ward Ally also scales with spell damage right? So I am not really sure what no cp has to do with it.

Bastion?

Bastion has always been a bad way to lower damage taken, considering that the cp nodes that lower damage, also lower damage on shields, no idea why people use bastion at all. Healing Taken is better in that tree.

It wasn't my point saying shields are fine in CP or anything, I just said I am speaking from a no cp perspective, as that is what I play most of the time and have most experience in.

Maulkin wrote: »

It's a tricky subject. I agree, the skill alone is currently rubbish. But that was their way of balancing not only the BRP resto effect, but also the Sorc triple shield stack. If they are to significantly buff the skill, something else will have to change and I don't think there's much willingness to experiment there from ZOS' part.

Imo they should revert the shield size increase to up to 300% in low health, while considerably nerfing the heal to 11% of the shield strength per sec. With the BRP resto reducing the skill’s cost and buffing the heal to 22%. But not granting blanket Major Vitality that makes all the heals you take from all sources start to tick redonkulously high.

Additionally, they should finally introduce a total shield cap at 100% of HP to avoid the triple or quadruple shield stacking (along with Iceheart or Psijic Passive etc.). You put on a new shield that brings your total shield size higher than 100% HP? It should chip away from your oldest shield to keep the total on par with your HP. That would rarely affect other classes than triple-stacking magSorcs, keeping them in line.

Though like I said, I'm not sure they want to nerf BRP weapons yet or start messing again with shield caps. I have little faith in them having the will to do that.

I like your suggestion tbh. The exact percentages of that heal could be debated, and maybe they should just make it a flat hot added to the shield for a short duration, that is increased in strength by a certain % when using blackrose resto. This would prevent the healing component to become useless when being under heavy pressure as it is now.

All I know is that they cannot remain in their current state. It just doesn't make sense when compared to other defensive mechanics. Heal ward, and especially ward ally serve absolutely no purpose at all in their current state. They are simply too weak to act as a 'life saver' on allies. Like, I try hard to make my magblade useful to a small group (as non-healer spec) and bring utility with things like refreshing path, fear and lotus fan, but if I can't stay in the fight or if I can't get out of execute range when pressured without help from a group mate, I wonder why am I even trying?

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Except that 40k magicka dampen is actually ~8k i totally agree with everything

healing ward's size is also determined by spell damage so just using a max magicka build won't mitigate any issues with healing ward

Healing Ward was FINE on the PTS, by the way, until a bunch of crybabies got it nerfed.

Resto staff shield is terrible skill. It is equal to other heals when target have %1 hp. There is only 1 use for this useless skill: procing BRP resto. You give your ally the buff and cast 2-3 breath of lights to heal.

I have no idea how can it be fixed without breaking BRP resto.

Anyron wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

As a magblade I agree. I am really struggling to defend, even with Blackrose resto, when Cloak is not working. Templar is IMO ridiculously overtuned vs magblade. It's fine that there should be counters to cloak and it's fine that Sweeps / Jabs should have high damage due to how clunky the skill is. I've played templar and know it is not (as) OP against other classes. Still, I have an issue with a spammable (Sweeps) that has a 12K unbuffed tooltip in any middle of the road build, that is also an AOE, that also heals, that frequently crits me (in CP) for 2K+ per hit and that procs Burning Light on top.

(A cloaking) magblade has not had good defenses for a very long time outside of mobility. What bugs me about this is that Toppling Charge and one to two Sweeps can kill me and it's not an ultimate combo, it's just a gap closer and a spammable. You might say "build tankier", but it's not really an option, if you want to do damage. Magblades, tell me you can get Swallow Soul or Concealed to 12K, like Sweeps, and what it took to get there. If that includes Soul Harvest, let me remind you that templars have an equally cheap ultimate that deals additional damage at the same time as their other skills.

When people were crying about shield-stacking sorcs, magblades were just getting by. A long time ago magblades were the kings of attacking while healing. That was when cloak made everything crit, when Funnel Health could double-crit and so on. Sometimes ZOS consciously balance things. Somtimes they fix bugs, seemingly without a second thought, even though that results in huge balance changes. Those crit changes nerfed magblade healing and they relied on Healing Ward ever since. There is still a healing while attacking theme with Siphoning Attacks. It's just not very strong. Other classes seem to do it better, particularly magden.

Well, you can go for dampen magic with cloak. Dampen is just as strong as hardened ward - so you can now be sorc with cloak.

My hardened ward is at 8,3k with 39k magicka in no-cp and dampen at 8,1k (with 5x light. Its bigger than hardened ward if you wear 7x light.)
Sometimes it just vanishes instantly. But if it is used with cloak it can help a lot.

I've played pretty much every variation in CP. I used Dampen + Healing Ward together in the past.

Problem number one is that it more or less forces you into one particular type of a build, e.g. a mag-stacking build. No procs, not a lot of spell damage (if you want sustain), no speed. I do this on my magden.

Problem number two is that you underestimate the power of (a) Streak relative to Cloak (b) shield stacking and/or (c) the burst heal from the Twilight. Streak stuns AND repositions in one skill. I've tried magsorc. It's great. A purely cloaking nightblade that gets into melee range has to build heavily into speed to make Cloak work. Magblade has no one skill that combines a stun with the distance Streak creates in a single GCD. Choosing between RAT, Fear and Healing Ward on a melee magblade in a defensive situation is a real struggle. You're frequently doomed whatever you do. Going straight into Cloak under someone's nose, who knows what they're doing, is not an option.

You may point out that NB has the shade. To that I say: You have to plan it, you're on a timer and you have a range limitation. It pales to Streak. Streak is always available and, while the shade can port you through walls, Streak goes through NPCs and creates LoS that way.

I ended up with a low stat proc build on magblade, because I invest heavily into speed and sustain, including stam sustain. I find this ultimately as effective as having better shields, but more fun. However the binary nature of Cloak is stark. It either works, or it doesn't. When someone, a sorc, a templar with a gap closer, another nightblade, uses a detect potion, you cannot outtank them. I've had builds with closer to 40K magicka, before shields could be crit, and even then Dampen + Healing Ward was not good enough against the best, most aggressive stamblades and magsorcs. Perhaps it shouldn't be. If you could outtank everyone just like that (and sustain it) that would be broken. It is however frustrating just how bad Healing Ward is these days, yet how dependent nightblade is on it. Magden, for example, doesn't have this problem. I use Dampen, Living Trellis and Radiating Regen on that class. Never even had a reason to use Healing Ward. Trellis is better.