OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

5 classes are fighting among themselves another kind of balance. 6 classes is a new kind of balance. Apparently you want to fight between 4 classes.

Never said i dislike new classes. But there has been problems with how they were introduced. When Warden came, it did get a collection of its skills sort of taken from others and some others adjusted (nerfed) to make it valid. Necro while the theme and many things on it is cool is buggy class(Blastbones still not work reliably at pvp most times) that seems is now forgotten after money was already collected with it. Yes stamcro is strong at pve, but at pvp necro been average to meh -tier, sadly.. because i wanto like it so bad, but its often really frustrating to play. Not want it to be "op" or fotm, just for the skills to work.

What i meant is that too many people nowadays are special snowflakes that seem to have issues on being killed at pvp or that if they cannot kill someone with button smash level skill they go on forums and ask for nerfs to change the game into their own level. Hard to explain. Usually they have a main and see balance only from limited view. They should play all classes and get rid of the biased view and just getting better at the game instead of trying to change it to something else.

And many been liking what we used to have.. strong class flavor, more rock, paper & scissors.. but the nerflings want their own character to be able to fight any class on any spec without them having to change any skill on bar or any sets or their own playstyle at all. And in the end, changes that go into that way makes all classes and sets feel like the same, and suddenly all cry about lost class identity, even the ones who been asking for nerfs for years and they do not even understand that it was them who been causing it all to happen. No idea why i sometimes try to explain this, since it feels like empty letters on screen.. people are blinded by selfishness. It can be hard to see the big picture in a game like this for many i guess.

ZOS has done many good quality of life changes during all the years, like 2h weapons counting as 2 parts of set and so on, lots of good things like that, they do not get thanks for those often, i guess because they too often simultaneously make nerfs that go into the "no one wanted this or needed this" cathegory. Would be naive if one could not see that they have to sort of create some form of unbalanced by choice fotm back and forth changes, so people keep rerolling new characters and so on. But still, they also do some right changes so not like us hardcore pvpers (eww, sounds elitist lol) are 100% unhappy, never said that also. Just that so many good skills and sets been destroyed to uselessness, enough with already. Because when people ask for "small nerf", have they not seen already that the set/skill always gets totally destroyed at 95% of cases?

Moonsorrow wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

5 classes are fighting among themselves another kind of balance. 6 classes is a new kind of balance. Apparently you want to fight between 4 classes.

Never said i dislike new classes. But there has been problems with how they were introduced. When Warden came, it did get a collection of its skills sort of taken from others and some others adjusted (nerfed) to make it valid. Necro while the theme and many things on it is cool is buggy class(Blastbones still not work reliably at pvp most times) that seems is now forgotten after money was already collected with it. Yes stamcro is strong at pve, but at pvp necro been average to meh -tier, sadly.. because i wanto like it so bad, but its often really frustrating to play. Not want it to be "op" or fotm, just for the skills to work.

What i meant is that too many people nowadays are special snowflakes that seem to have issues on being killed at pvp or that if they cannot kill someone with button smash level skill they go on forums and ask for nerfs to change the game into their own level. Hard to explain. Usually they have a main and see balance only from limited view. They should play all classes and get rid of the biased view and just getting better at the game instead of trying to change it to something else.

And many been liking what we used to have.. strong class flavor, more rock, paper & scissors.. but the nerflings want their own character to be able to fight any class on any spec without them having to change any skill on bar or any sets or their own playstyle at all. And in the end, changes that go into that way makes all classes and sets feel like the same, and suddenly all cry about lost class identity, even the ones who been asking for nerfs for years and they do not even understand that it was them who been causing it all to happen. No idea why i sometimes try to explain this, since it feels like empty letters on screen.. people are blinded by selfishness. It can be hard to see the big picture in a game like this for many i guess.

ZOS has done many good quality of life changes during all the years, like 2h weapons counting as 2 parts of set and so on, lots of good things like that, they do not get thanks for those often, i guess because they too often simultaneously make nerfs that go into the "no one wanted this or needed this" cathegory. Would be naive if one could not see that they have to sort of create some form of unbalanced by choice fotm back and forth changes, so people keep rerolling new characters and so on. But still, they also do some right changes so not like us hardcore pvpers (eww, sounds elitist lol) are 100% unhappy, never said that also. Just that so many good skills and sets been destroyed to uselessness, enough with already. Because when people ask for "small nerf", have they not seen already that the set/skill always gets totally destroyed at 95% of cases?

I have nothing to add here. You're right. I take my words back about Blood Spawn but only due to the fact that people like this set. I do not change my opinion about the big ult reg. I realized how important this set is for people. He embodies a reminder of the old. I have no problems with him, I just wanted to share an unbiased assessment.

maxjapank wrote: »

Same players here who asked for the Pirate Skelly nerf are vehemently defending their precious Blood Spawn. Fact still remains, the amount of utli regen could definitely be toned down some.

Thanks for the support. In any case, Dev will decide for themselves.

maxjapank wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Same players here who asked for the Pirate Skelly nerf are vehemently defending their precious Blood Spawn. Fact still remains, the amount of utli regen could definitely be toned down some.

Because the mitigation from Pirate Skele's 2pc is 3x greater than the mitigation from Bloodspawn's 2pc (30% mitigation is roughly equal to 19.8k resists), despite having a slightly higher proc chance, and, at the time, minimal downtime (2s downtime) and next to no drawbacks for those 20k resists, on top of the constant almost 3k resists on the 1pc bonus. All at the cost of just not using a damage shield, as it only procs when you take damage to your health.

With the 2pc bonus up, Pirate Skele gave 34.5% damage mitigation (30% of which was through flat mitigation, which is both more effective than resists due to where it sits in the damage formula, and harder to counter due to no the lack of a penetration-like mechanic for flat mitigation), while Bloodspawn only gives 9.8% damage mitigation (which can be countered through pen), for virtually no cost except wearing the set.

That aside, ult gen alone isn't even that strong. It just gives you the ability the cast ults more often, but you still need damage behind those ults so they actually hurt, and you still need to know how to use the ults effectively. Bloodspawn is very well balanced in that regard, because it gives you the tools necessary to perform well, but you still need to know how to use them effectively.

Only on DK does Bloodspawn's ult gen get really strong, since it doubles as sustain, but are we really going to flatten class identity by nerfing a set that maybe overperforms on one class in the area that class is meant to excel in?

The Ulti return is too much. Face it.

How much would you suggest for it to be balanced? Its always been a strong set but it doesn't even feel close to being OP especially compared to the old Pirate Skeleton. Without Bloodspawn I probably wouldn't even bother using a 2 piece monster set.

How is bloodspawn op ? It's one of the best balanced sets in the game. I think people just need a new thing to nerf each time because some of the requests are getting crazy.

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Let's just talk without bias not about the word nerf. Someone may not understand what is happening but just hears the words nerf and he begins to panic. Someone says that there are a lot of bad sets.
Now about the data. BS can generate 28 points of ultimate ability in 15 seconds. Take Shalk Exoskeleton Set and Champion of the Hist as an example. These two sets provide Minor Heroism in battle all the time i.e. in 15 seconds it will generate 10 points of ultimate ability. We won't be able to buff these sets, Minor heroism is the mechanics of the game. These are good sets, but people will not look at these sets when they can simply increase their damage using other sets in conjunction with the BS and have a frantic regeneration of Ult points.

P. S. I just shared my outlook on things. I don’t want anyone to feel bad about it. It's just a game. My suggestion was to reduce ult points to 7. In any case, you will get an advantage in front of these two sets, you can generate 14 ult points for about 15 seconds + -.
P. P. S. I don’t want to argue anymore, and I don’t want to prove anything. I was just trying to reason with justice. Let this topic be closed.

You can't try to balance a good set by comparing it to totally useless sets though. Even if bloodspawn had it's ult gen removed no one would still use sets like shalks because they just suck. Just like nerfing resists didn't make anyone start using dunerippers scales.

Didn’t they already nerf this set? More nerfs?

What do you run OP? Let’s nerf your stuff too... TO BE FAIR.

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Let's just talk without bias not about the word nerf. Someone may not understand what is happening but just hears the words nerf and he begins to panic. Someone says that there are a lot of bad sets.
Now about the data. BS can generate 28 points of ultimate ability in 15 seconds. Take Shalk Exoskeleton Set and Champion of the Hist as an example. These two sets provide Minor Heroism in battle all the time i.e. in 15 seconds it will generate 10 points of ultimate ability. We won't be able to buff these sets, Minor heroism is the mechanics of the game. These are good sets, but people will not look at these sets when they can simply increase their damage using other sets in conjunction with the BS and have a frantic regeneration of Ult points.

P. S. I just shared my outlook on things. I don’t want anyone to feel bad about it. It's just a game. My suggestion was to reduce ult points to 7. In any case, you will get an advantage in front of these two sets, you can generate 14 ult points in about 15 seconds + -.
P. P. S. I don’t want to argue anymore, and I don’t want to prove anything. I was just trying to reason with justice. Let this topic be closed.

So your argument for why its too strong is that when you compare it to bad sets that nobody uses it works out stronger. Okay then.

@NoodleESO

I was hesitant to even drop that set's name in this thread.

Then again you see my above illustration of how Shalk's / Hist Champ compare to BS, followed by multiple posts saying those sets are trash.

@NoodleESO

I agree. I tend to see that there are (or were) monster sets that are more powerful than most 5 piece bonuses, sets which are roughly equal to several 5 piece bonuses, and sets which are weaker than most 5 piece bonuses.

In my opinion nearly all of the monster sets which see frequent use in PvP fit comfortably in that second category, including Bloodspawn.

Probably old Earthgore was in that first category, but I would still have its nerf reverted, mostly because I liked how the animation looked and I don't see it much anymore.

PVE tanks use this set, don't nerf it, PVE tanks have already been overnerfed

Replace tweet with post and you get the idea.

If bloodspawn gets nerfed, cp cap should be removed

Weisstag wrote: »

it has 6% chance...honestly shut up

What could happen, you bite me with your keyboard? Rejoice that you can talk this way on the Internet.