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*Looks at a Nightblade*
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nryerson1025 wrote: »Streak
*walks toward a magsorc*
Streak, dark conversion
*moves to attack a magsorc*
Streak streak streak
*walks away annoyed from a magsorc*
Put back into combat by haunting curse then, streak streak
*Chases a magsorc . . .*
. . . Streak streak failed magsorc burst streak streak
that's one of the reasons I don't play sorc, its very easy to find the coward classes with run away buttons, NB and Sorc man.
ZOS has nerfed the msorc ability to shieldfacetank and clearly made the Streaking away -mobility tactic the intended way of playing a sorc. People wanted msorc to be that with nerfs to the Msorc "brawler" if can call it that, you know the bunnyhopping shieldstacking while waiting for burst opening. Nothing cowardly about that, meant to play like that by both ZOS vision and players wanting it in that direction. So streaking sorcs play as intended.
Same goes for NB. It is supposed to hit hard and mitigate damage by avoiding it.
Or.. you want NB and Sorc just turned into another DK or Templar? Why then have more than 1 class even in the end? Since you want all to be a melee brawler that does not escape (be a coward as you say)?
I mean.. we are supposed to have different classes with different playstyles, yet some want them all to be a cloned copypaste brawler with only different color animations on buffs. Very exciting gameplay. /s
Also, do many "basic DK mains" (no idea how else to put it) forget that if you wanna remove Cloak/Streak and whatnot, then NB and Sorc need strong defensive buffs and similar passives/actives to match DK and Templar on the brawling ability on current situation.. it would end up buffing NB and Sorc, but in the process just making them just DK3000 class and all would be copy classes. How people not understand that is beyond me..7 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭there is no reason for normal build go dark cloak. if you want something like that play stam dk and press cauterize or any real face to face class.
I play a high damage dark cloak build in non CP with 0 defensive sets and do just fine, and still enjoy NB gameplay with with setting up burst damage with relentless, using our passives with crit which help with healing (vigor/dark cloak ticks) as well as damage, and actually being able to help teammates in BG's at high mmr more then any cloakblade will ever with just trying to gank one person probably with snipe and run to the opposite side of the map away anytime your health goes below 90%. It's a totally viable playstyle you just have to actually manage buffs like any good player, uses skills like vigor in advance and throughout a fight. You can still be extremely evasive and harder to kill with the NB kit with dark cloak and skills like summon shade.
I don't know, killing an enemy player before he kills your teammate is pretty helpful.0 -
Crucified4sin✭✭✭What I gather from a majority of you is that a nb that goes stealth to escape dying is a coward..
Isn't that no different then when the tanky target I'm dropping decided to tuck tail and run behind his party?
My stamblades (my only nb) resistance pales in comparison with resistance of my other toons.. I'm sorry my ASSASSIN doesn't rock a big tin can as armor (heavy armor) but he gives up most of that resistance for damage, so I need to rely on evasion to stay alive..
I don't run away if Its 1v1 or even 1v2, I'll use shadowy disguise to throw my opponent off while knocking him down. Now if I see a 4+ group headed towards little old me then you bet your bum I'll be booking out a there.. because again I play as an ASSASSIN not a tank
If I tried to stand up against that I'd be squashed in a heartbeat.
It sounds to me people are just looking for easy kills with the least amount of work..
"lets target the least defensive class in the game and crucify them for using thier single most defensive move"
Let people play the way they want to play. If the nb goes dark find another target, don't jump on forums and rag on him for not trying to stand against your 30k resistance to his 15k... That furthers my point that you antagonists are just looking for easy kills6 -
Crucified4sin✭✭✭Not to mention my magicka pool is also non existent. So I can cloak twice, three times on a good day.
At three seconds a piece I got 6 maybe 9 seconds to try to slink away in stealth at my 50% movement reduction speed.. then you use a gap closer and poof, no more magic no more stealth I'm dead..Edited by Crucified4sin on October 25, 2019 12:48PM1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Exactly, they are mad because the guy hitting them really hard that's wearing all divines and has little sustain got away because they arent good at countering them.1 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭I think stealth is fine as is, most people are just annoyed because if you get into a BG game and get 3 NB's on your team you already know it's an auto loss because 99% of NB they are just gonna be hiding in the shadow's sniping people dying the first time they get caught, only looking for those 2v1 scenarios where they can finally get a kill. So many cloakblades are bad players that are completely useless outside of open world and even there they are more annoying then anything. I do think the methods of detection should be a lot better at pulling them out and last longer than 3 seconds more like 5 seconds at least. As right now the only 100% way to get a NB out of cloak is to spam an aoe right on top of them as they take 3k-4k light attack crits because they are in full divines.
I also think the stun from stealth with anything outside of surprise attack should be removed from the game if you want to stun someone you should need to slot a hard cc like everyone else. You already get enough advantage from stealth with a 100% crit, increased damage and most likely hitting someone that's already engaged in fighting someone else not expecting it.PC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭They are amazingly fun in deathmatch. It sounds like a lot of the anti-stealth crowd dont use reveal potions. They work and if you close in on a ganker they most likely wont have the sustain to get away.
https://youtu.be/H10U9e1bv2Q 0 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭Stealth counter doesn't neccessary equal nightblade counter. I have the feeling people who claim "stealth counters don't work" expect those skills to instantly kill every nightblade within a 40m radius arround them without allowing any counterplay and are then disappointed when it doesn't work like this.
NBs who solely rely on stealth to survive are usually very easy to kill. NBs who survive cloak counters do so, because they use additional defense and they run additional defense because cloak gets countered all the time (intended and unintended).
that argument goes both ways, everyone says "use detect pots" like once you do the nightblade dies.
imagine having cloak spam on top of all the additional defenses available in game. some people are impossible to kill without also being invisible.They are amazingly fun in deathmatch. It sounds like a lot of the anti-stealth crowd dont use reveal potions. They work and if you close in on a ganker they most likely wont have the sustain to get away.https://youtu.be/H10U9e1bv2Q
Drinking a stealth potion gimps your character for 45 seconds, it’s completely unreasonable to keep bringing it forward as the premier stealth counter. Any real build should have no problem beating someone who’s just given up on 20% mag/Health/stam recovery in addition to the burst of resources. Luckily most stealthers don’t play real builds so I stock stealth pots on most of my characters just I can clean up the NB quickly and move on.Edited by Jimmy_The_Fixer on October 25, 2019 8:54PM1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Stealth counter doesn't neccessary equal nightblade counter. I have the feeling people who claim "stealth counters don't work" expect those skills to instantly kill every nightblade within a 40m radius arround them without allowing any counterplay and are then disappointed when it doesn't work like this.
NBs who solely rely on stealth to survive are usually very easy to kill. NBs who survive cloak counters do so, because they use additional defense and they run additional defense because cloak gets countered all the time (intended and unintended).
that argument goes both ways, everyone says "use detect pots" like once you do the nightblade dies.
imagine having cloak spam on top of all the additional defenses available in game. some people are impossible to kill without also being invisible.They are amazingly fun in deathmatch. It sounds like a lot of the anti-stealth crowd dont use reveal potions. They work and if you close in on a ganker they most likely wont have the sustain to get away.https://youtu.be/H10U9e1bv2Q
Drinking a stealth potion gimps your character for 45 seconds, it’s completely unreasonable to keep bringing it forward as the premier stealth counter. Any real build should have no problem beating someone who’s just given up on 20% mag/Health/stam recovery in addition to the burst of resources. Luckily most stealthers don’t play real builds so I stock stealth pots on most of my characters just I can clean up the NB quickly and move on.
Completely unreasonable to bring forward one of the best stealth counters as the premier stealth counter? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not. Also it doesnt gimo your character when you are using it to pop someone out of stealth.2 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Stealth counter doesn't neccessary equal nightblade counter. I have the feeling people who claim "stealth counters don't work" expect those skills to instantly kill every nightblade within a 40m radius arround them without allowing any counterplay and are then disappointed when it doesn't work like this.
NBs who solely rely on stealth to survive are usually very easy to kill. NBs who survive cloak counters do so, because they use additional defense and they run additional defense because cloak gets countered all the time (intended and unintended).
that argument goes both ways, everyone says "use detect pots" like once you do the nightblade dies.
imagine having cloak spam on top of all the additional defenses available in game. some people are impossible to kill without also being invisible.They are amazingly fun in deathmatch. It sounds like a lot of the anti-stealth crowd dont use reveal potions. They work and if you close in on a ganker they most likely wont have the sustain to get away.https://youtu.be/H10U9e1bv2Q
Drinking a stealth potion gimps your character for 45 seconds, it’s completely unreasonable to keep bringing it forward as the premier stealth counter. Any real build should have no problem beating someone who’s just given up on 20% mag/Health/stam recovery in addition to the burst of resources. Luckily most stealthers don’t play real builds so I stock stealth pots on most of my characters just I can clean up the NB quickly and move on.
Completely unreasonable to bring forward one of the best stealth counters as the premier stealth counter? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not. Also it doesnt gimo your character when you are using it to pop someone out of stealth.
When you have no defense against being attacked, it must feel very overwhelming to have detect pots used against you. But pvp builds with a balance of offense and defense (including nightblades!) will have a severe advantage against anyone who pops a detect pot and therefore destroys their own resource regeneration.
In real duels, even against players that use cloak, I never use detect potions. It’s just not worth it against someone who knows what they’re doing. Detect potions are for cleaning up gankers while fighting outnumbered.Edited by Jimmy_The_Fixer on October 26, 2019 4:08AM1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Stealth counter doesn't neccessary equal nightblade counter. I have the feeling people who claim "stealth counters don't work" expect those skills to instantly kill every nightblade within a 40m radius arround them without allowing any counterplay and are then disappointed when it doesn't work like this.
NBs who solely rely on stealth to survive are usually very easy to kill. NBs who survive cloak counters do so, because they use additional defense and they run additional defense because cloak gets countered all the time (intended and unintended).
that argument goes both ways, everyone says "use detect pots" like once you do the nightblade dies.
imagine having cloak spam on top of all the additional defenses available in game. some people are impossible to kill without also being invisible.They are amazingly fun in deathmatch. It sounds like a lot of the anti-stealth crowd dont use reveal potions. They work and if you close in on a ganker they most likely wont have the sustain to get away.https://youtu.be/H10U9e1bv2Q
Drinking a stealth potion gimps your character for 45 seconds, it’s completely unreasonable to keep bringing it forward as the premier stealth counter. Any real build should have no problem beating someone who’s just given up on 20% mag/Health/stam recovery in addition to the burst of resources. Luckily most stealthers don’t play real builds so I stock stealth pots on most of my characters just I can clean up the NB quickly and move on.
Completely unreasonable to bring forward one of the best stealth counters as the premier stealth counter? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not. Also it doesnt gimo your character when you are using it to pop someone out of stealth.
When you have no defense against being attacked, it must feel very overwhelming to have detect pots used against you. But pvp builds with a balance of offense and defense (including nightblades!) will have a severe advantage against anyone who pops a detect pot and therefore destroys their own resource regeneration.
In real duels, even against players that use cloak, I never use detect potions. It’s just not worth it against someone who knows what they’re doing. Detect potions are for cleaning up gankers while fighting outnumbered.
Ok so you basically want invisibility removed. Sounds reasonable.0 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Stealth counter doesn't neccessary equal nightblade counter. I have the feeling people who claim "stealth counters don't work" expect those skills to instantly kill every nightblade within a 40m radius arround them without allowing any counterplay and are then disappointed when it doesn't work like this.
NBs who solely rely on stealth to survive are usually very easy to kill. NBs who survive cloak counters do so, because they use additional defense and they run additional defense because cloak gets countered all the time (intended and unintended).
that argument goes both ways, everyone says "use detect pots" like once you do the nightblade dies.
imagine having cloak spam on top of all the additional defenses available in game. some people are impossible to kill without also being invisible.They are amazingly fun in deathmatch. It sounds like a lot of the anti-stealth crowd dont use reveal potions. They work and if you close in on a ganker they most likely wont have the sustain to get away.https://youtu.be/H10U9e1bv2Q
Drinking a stealth potion gimps your character for 45 seconds, it’s completely unreasonable to keep bringing it forward as the premier stealth counter. Any real build should have no problem beating someone who’s just given up on 20% mag/Health/stam recovery in addition to the burst of resources. Luckily most stealthers don’t play real builds so I stock stealth pots on most of my characters just I can clean up the NB quickly and move on.
Completely unreasonable to bring forward one of the best stealth counters as the premier stealth counter? I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not. Also it doesnt gimo your character when you are using it to pop someone out of stealth.
When you have no defense against being attacked, it must feel very overwhelming to have detect pots used against you. But pvp builds with a balance of offense and defense (including nightblades!) will have a severe advantage against anyone who pops a detect pot and therefore destroys their own resource regeneration.
In real duels, even against players that use cloak, I never use detect potions. It’s just not worth it against someone who knows what they’re doing. Detect potions are for cleaning up gankers while fighting outnumbered.
Ok so you basically want invisibility removed. Sounds reasonable.
Umm... what?
I was saying that the opportunity cost of detection potions is too high for it to be a viable stealth counter against skilled opponents. I never said anything about removing it from the game. Am I being trolled?Edited by Jimmy_The_Fixer on October 26, 2019 2:25PM1 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lots of “professional experts” here.
There is a huge difference in fighting a noob and a good player. A good player wont ever let you cloak.
I’m not a great Magsorc but even I will immediately streak towards an NB if they cloak.
I’m much better with my DK and I immediately use breath or other AoE (depending on setup at the time or bar I’m on) or pop a detect pot when I’m ready to setup leap and whip to finish them while they cloak and cling to their last bit of life.
When I’m on my NB I barely use cloak BECAUSE it’s so easy to break fighting good players and I’m not concerned with noobs so I don’t run more than 500 magicka recovery. But to say cloak is easy mode either means you don’t play an NB or you’ve been tower farming so much you’ve become too comfortable fighting noobs, which is why this latter type is the one that always is first to send hate tells when they lose a 1v1 because their so used to being spoon fed bad players and they think they’re the cream of the crop.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!4 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol, I love how the response to making a silly post about a dumb ability is immediately hyper defensive and full of "omg L2P GEEEZ look at the RAGE! without this skill we would be NOTHING carry detect pots!!1!"
wow
calm down
I also want to call out the smug nightblade players whom act like they do anything other then play a nightblade
"bwah? its easy to counter you just, I don't know, use a potion guy, I mean c'mon, its easy, heh, cause like, that's what I do right? you know because like, I never play a nightblade. . .and if I did I CERTAINLY would not use cloak, cause its like. . .a crutch. . .cough."
but the only real argument I actually see is "carry a detect pot" cause even its defenders know that the skill based detection methods are pretty much a meme.
I must admit I am still surprised be the amount of angry dismissive responses that pop up as soon as you mention cloak.
I guess I hope for everyone sake ZOS never touched the skill, because man oh man if nightblades all of a sudden cannot crutch on being invisible on demand the bodies will be hitting the floor.
You do realize that people playing as NBs come up against NBs that use cloak just as often as you do, correct? We tell you that pots work because we have to use them too. You act as if NBs are somehow immune to other NBs' cloak. Spoiler: we're not.
Pretty much every class has an ability that is super annoying — if you tell me the class you play, I'm sure I could tell you yours. The only difference is that I can't pop a potion to disable it for a quarter of a f*cking minute.Edited by Langeston on November 3, 2019 12:33AM6 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lol, I love how the response to making a silly post about a dumb ability is immediately hyper defensive and full of "omg L2P GEEEZ look at the RAGE! without this skill we would be NOTHING carry detect pots!!1!"
wow
calm down
I also want to call out the smug nightblade players whom act like they do anything other then play a nightblade
"bwah? its easy to counter you just, I don't know, use a potion guy, I mean c'mon, its easy, heh, cause like, that's what I do right? you know because like, I never play a nightblade. . .and if I did I CERTAINLY would not use cloak, cause its like. . .a crutch. . .cough."
but the only real argument I actually see is "carry a detect pot" cause even its defenders know that the skill based detection methods are pretty much a meme.
I must admit I am still surprised be the amount of angry dismissive responses that pop up as soon as you mention cloak.
I guess I hope for everyone sake ZOS never touched the skill, because man oh man if nightblades all of a sudden cannot crutch on being invisible on demand the bodies will be hitting the floor.
You do realize that people playing as NBs come up against NBs that use cloak just as often as you do, correct? We tell you that pots work because we have to use them too. You act as if NBs are somehow immune to other NBs' cloak. Spoiler: we're not.
Pretty much every class has an ability that is super annoying — if you tell me the class you play, I'm sure I could tell you yours. The only difference is that I can't pop a potion to disable it for a quarter of a f*cking minute.
This
Somehow NBs in most of the cases are the easiest prey for me, burn them to 50-60% hp, then potion, further pressure, cc, finish of. Usually NB is dead long before potion effect end. If he's not then he was good and deserved to survive, because hitting potion shouldn't be "I win button".
I dare any of those who claim cloak is OP to jump on magblade (because you want to prove that it's cloak, not dodge and cloak on stamblade) and fight against my magblade or even better magplar, CP or no-CP I don't care, PC EU.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2