danara wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

NB :

I play my NB healer as a buffer/debuffer and heal a bit (no need alot when dps are good).

- Chudan/Symphony of Blade (I love chudan since it give easy access to the lack of M. resolve on NB)
- Olorime
- Master Architect
- Double resto precise
- Thief mundus


1st bar :
- Healing Ward (I don't like Offering, can put you in very dangerous situation sometime)
- Sap Ess
- Prayer (the other morph is amazing if you need more healing)
- Spring (for olo)
- Inner light (flex)
- Soul Harvest

2sd bar :
- Phantasmal escape
- Siphon / path (sustain, utility : flex)
- Mystic Orb
- Lotus Fan / path (flex)
- Inner light (flex)
- Soul Harvest (best uptime for MA, can be flex)

Amazing result in all 4 man content including all vet arena/hm.

For Raid I switch MA for Hollowfang gonna help magicka alot with the lower sustain they got this patch.
I'll of replace both Soul Harvest for Bolstering Darkness + War Horn.
And ofc adjust the skill bar a bit and it work fine.

I m not a big fan of your build, as a healer in pve you dont need :

Chudan (why do you need major ward/resolve? it s useless for a heal)
Phantsmal escape : unless you kite on CR or AS i dont see the point on this one
Spring : after the last patch i prefer the other morph, heal for 12sec instead of 8 and heal more, since we cant spam springs and orbs anymore the regen is now completely useless

I think for a trial spec i would go something like that :


monster set : right know i think that Bogdan is the king, but on some fight where you need a lot of purge (first vHoF boss for example, Hearthgore is always an option)
5 Pieces of Martial Knowledge (you will understand why after) -> give +8% damage and it stacks with minor vulnerability
3 Perfected Olorime Pieces

Main bar : Master Resto Staff
1 > Healthy offering (+8% healing for a little dot on you is ok considering how strong your hots ticks)
2 > Illustrous Healing (still a decent aoe)
3 > Combat Prayer
4 > Radiant Regen (one of the strongest hot in the game right now, usually on my build i heal for 25k with this on 10 sec)
5 > Debilitate (dot + 8% magicka passive + Magicka steal = you dont need Elemental Drain
Ult > If you dont need Veil Of Blades from the shadow tree then go for Incapaciting Strike for passive magicka critic AND for this "While slotted you gain Reave, which restores XX Magicka and Stamina when you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack on an enemy with a negative effect active on them." (and i dont care because i ll absolutely never drop this ult)

Off bar : Perfected Olorime shock staff
1 > Siphonning Attacks, i dont know how good i can sustain on this build, if it is enough i think i would remove this for sap essence, and i need purge i ll put it here
2 > wall of element for the off balance proc then minor vuln, i think that if i have a tank or a nb dd it will be his job to put minor vuln with Lotus Fan/Ambush or even with the fly of the warden
3 > Path : one of strongest healing aoe on the game in terme of HPS, maybe i would switch Healthy Offering and Path to have all my hot on the same bar
4 > orb
5 > Bone Surge in order to proc Martial Knowledge, it also give what nb lack of : Synnergie. Plus it give Major Vitality to 6 people for 6 seconds, wonderfull burst heal tool
Ult > Warhorn

The NB build I've share is for 4man content.

Like I said, I use Chudan AND Symphony depend on content I run.
Some run requiert it to be saffer.
A dead healer is useless, same for a healer who have to worry to much about his own life.
With chudan and phantasme (25% aoe dmg reduction is insane) you're tanky af and can walk in dragon breath to cross in VSS if needed and not worry about wasting stam dodging (just an exemple). I hate squishy healer.
The less the team need to care about me, the better it is.
I don't need bogdan who is another overhealing set. Good for beginner, not for end-game imo.
Was using sentinel, buf with the nerf...
Healer need some new monster set imo, most of them are bad or to weak or useless (no need more heal).

Spring : I use the same morph as you, just still calling it spring because to me the morph is obvious.
Offering : I don't need the minor mending and like I said don't want DoT on me, most of the time it's fine, but some time is difference between life and death, especially with pug.

Radiant regen is overkill imo, was using it since rework and figured out that in fact I don't need it.
Never feel the need to put it back, especialy with healing ward who offer me a 360° emergency if needed.
Debilitate : nop. to costly, don't care about the week dot, have other option for passive, and siphon is 10 time better for free, long duration magi and life steal.

WoE is totaly optional since charged trait change + uptime nerf.
Go on a dummie, put your wall, switch back to resto until he goes off and do it again 15+ time w/o stop.
Check the uptime, you gonna be disapointed by how low it is.
If you wanna play like this then use charged main bar + infused with shock on back bar.
For me the trad is not worth, your choice.
Lotus is amazing, even more since it got buff.
I rarely see NB DD anymore so it's fine.

Path is weak, area is tiny, expedition gimmick and the heal is weaker than radian or spring, use it only for utility.
Orb is a no brainer, both morph are good, I don't need more heal so I'm fine with the dmg morph.

Horn is useless outside of raid, especialy when I use MA.
In raid I use it with Hollowfang to help magika sustain who take a big it this patch.
Not a big fan of martial knowledge, love to have my stam to survive.

I don't need incapaciting, I've way enough sustain with 2300.
Better to have harvest to spam MA in 4man where there is plenty of add anywhere.

Most of the healer I see overheal way to much imo.
I've done most of the vtrial + some hm just with 1 emergency + 1 general heal.
If you wanna be lazy you can just go with Blessing instead of prayer and it will be enough to heal anything you encounter.
To many healer live in the past thinking they need all the heal they can stack.
You don't.
Prayer + illustrous + burst, is enough.

Hell I've even heal most 4 man hm and some trial with only blessing slotted after a challenge from a friend and it worked just fine x)
Maybe I should give Martial another try, but I don't really like how it work.
And my team is happy to have hollow to help them to not worry about sustain.


That said, not claming your build is wrong or so, just not my taste ^^
Thx for sharing your though, it's always nice to ear other people pov !

Iskiab wrote: »

danara wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

danara wrote: »

I used to play dk healer to try it but i was very disapointed by the facts that it has too much problem like :
- his regen
- cauterize which was completely useless in 90% of the case
- cinder storm that heals nothing on a really small aoe for what it cost for exemple...
- Fragmented shield is cool because major mending is a unique feature for DK (by that i mean easy to access, i know every one can have it with resto staves HA), but the shield is too tiny in my opinion, i would prefer 1000 times a spell that give you major mending for 2.5 sec instead of 5 but give your mates a shield any sec like Illustrous Healing if you see what i mean)

Can't talk about nb because i never played them, just theory crafting (in my opinion that should have major life steal for class identity and be more relevant but if someone disagree pls explain ! )

SO, did someone here try hard dunjeons or trials content on the PTS ? and if so, can you gave me your build (set and bars) plus a feedback? in order to let me think about it !

Do you think it is possible to play DK with shields ?

Thanks everyone !

I did have a DK 2 years ago in PS4. I remmeber i used to use trinimace valor when it has a chance to proc since used opaidion shield a lots as when as combat physician with nightflame. Lots of shields and heals.

DK cautirize and f|$ting heals were most wilcomed changes back then when they were first inturduced.

i used to play them like that, but now i dont think this is really possible i mean you cant be as effective as a templar/warden

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

i really dont think that is a solution, it s already hard for most groups to do their job correctly, do not nerf them to the ground, instead, better address the problems of this classes (people enumerate them if you look at the answer i got on this thread ).
We shouldnt ask (sometimes yes) "why those one are so strong", but "one those one are so weak". This mentality would help to solve the problem of helping beginner without affecting the elite.

Iskiab wrote: »

I started as a magblade dps in trials, went magblade healer, got my templar to 50 and preferred PvE healing on my templar, switched to PvP NB healing. That’s how I’ve played the game so my experience is outdated and pre-resto staff ability changes.

Yeah the nb healer in pvp is a monster but never tried it, i should cause i have one ready, just waiting for his stuff ! How do you run it? i would imagine something like transmutation, earthgore (this set still rule pvp no?) and my vbrp resto staff ? (but i dont know how good the staff is know that the shield have been change...). And for the last set spot maybe something like shacklebreaker?

Thanks every one for the answer, it s good to have your thought about the problem!

Depends on the context. NB healing in BGs will be the weakest healers if you know what you’re doing because they’ll be prone to being bursted, so I wouldn’t recommend it. Even with the dizzy change.

Small - Large scale Cyro you can do okay. This might sound totally conceited but I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs look at metrics and are intentionally keeping NB healers weaker then others. I mean, no matter what the tooltips say why buff a class that's putting out 15k HPS in cyrodiil (excluding overhealing) when other classes aren't even coming close to that? Problem is most other classes have put next to 0 thought into their builds, so I'm just going to change classes and break the game on another class instead. Most older players seem content to never change their builds and fall behind meta, and do very little if any theorycrafting. Maybe just lazy IDK, either way the difference between what people are playing and what they can on other classes is pretty big.

This is the build I'm going to change to for the patch until I'm finished gearing my alts:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=182580

I'm actually running a pretty similar thing now pre-patch. Meritorious Service instead of treasure hunter though, which means I need to put Inner Light on my front bar, put phantasmal escape on my back bar, and I don't use merciless.

ur build isnt loading, says error, failed to load character

buttaface wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Chudan

Never on a NB who can simply wear two heavy and get 9 second uptime via Shadow Barrier and sac 2% resources in undaunted mettle as the tradeoff. One of the worst possible monster choices on any NB that uses path, dark cloak, bolstering darkness ult, fear. If one isn't using any of those regularly, should probably be healing on a different class.

If you want more safety, but for some reason think Nightflame is overhealing when it is actually a healer SUSTAIN/DPS augmenting set for a healer, use Troll King or... hell almost ANYTHING would be better on a NB.

Aznarb wrote: »

not worry about wasting stam dodging

Apparently you like saving stam... but call the major expedition on Path a "gimmick." Seems inconsistent.

Aznarb wrote: »

Offering : I don't need the minor mending and like I said don't want DoT on me, most of the time it's fine, but some time is difference between life and death, especially with pug.

Again, minor mending and Offering are SUSTAIN/DPS augmenting tools for a healer, and especially sustain in this patch.If you used Path to give the whole team major expedition (and the HOT on you and them), together with a good monster set like Nightflame, the drain is negligible even when multicast, but Combat Prayer should be the main spot heal anyway with the big heal in reserve. You want to keep at least one drain up on yourself to keep Nightflame up on CD when the team isn't taking much damage... so you can do MORE DPS.

As much as you go on about overhealing as a reason for nixing common SUSTAIN/DPS tools for healers, you are looking more and more like one of those healers who "just heals." Sorry to say that role is superfluous in many teams these days. Apologize if wrong and you are pulling 15k dps while healing as all healers should be able to swing at baseline.

Aznarb wrote: »

WoE is totaly optional since charged trait change + uptime nerf.

Destro passives help your dps over resto on both bars. Plus the utility is immense. Can't imagine ever using resto/resto actually. Lightning augments concussion and OB for the team (making Lotus Fan superfluous), Ice snare can make many packs and boss add packs easy with the snare and AOE chill. Combine with the "gimmick" of major expedition on path and avoiding melee attacks is a breeze. Just don't heavy with it.

Aznarb wrote: »

Lotus is amazing, even more since it got buff.
I rarely see NB DD anymore so it's fine.

What about sorcs, ever see those? They tend to do plenty of concussion. So do many tanks with Lightning Staff... or Templars, Wardens, Necros, DKs with a lightning staff. Ever see any of those?

Aznarb wrote: »

Path is weak, area is tiny, expedition gimmick and the heal is weaker than radian or spring, use it only for utility.

Path is not "weak," its area is not "tiny" (7x17... blockade is 8x12 and haven't heard anyone call that tiny) but adequately wide and very LONG, expedition is not a "gimmick" but extremely useful to the team in both augmenting dps and sustain. While out of aggro range, you can lay path right through to the mobs in the back, then lay a LONG path through the boss that gets everyone. When tanking on a NB, what I hear most from PUGS at the end is "wow so smooth, so fast" and a lot of that is because of Path.

I wonder why you even use a NB if not using path or offering? If just for hemorrhage alone?

Still trying to decide whether to crank up NB or Templar healer, so that's why all the prodding, but leaning NB, and my build will be similar to danara's.

I've already answer most of the thing you quote so I'll not write it again, just scroll back ^^
I've play many version of all healer in all content the game as to offer.
My NB build work very well for me and my team and yes I do 15k+ dps even in resto/resto.

It's fine if you don't agree my choice, everyone have his one play-style.
For WoE and Path, that my experience, they're not as much needed than they was before the nerf.
Any mag play with double infernal staff since few patch ago and most of tank I encounter seem to prefer ice staff instead of lightning (and in my raid team they don't like staff at all and keep the old double-shield, we're not a scoring team so it doesn't matter since we're able to do all content).

I and my team, don't need M. exp, I've yet to encounter a trial/DG where I've to sprint, If you know the strat you don't have too, you just adapt your placement.
I said gimmick but not in bad way, M. Exp is more convenience than true utility, I slot it when we do speedrun.
And with the last patch who drastically reduce sprint cost, I need path even less.
For boring DG like Maarselok I have path in 1 alphagear save and just switch between fight with 1 button.

I know how nightflame work and how good it is, but for me it's a beginner set.
Chudan is a personal choice, and like I said I don't use it in all content, also, major resolution is never useless, especially when I don't use any shadow skill.
Sentinel (rip) and now Symphony are way more useful than any other healing set.

And like I said the build is more for 4 man content and I change skill/gear for vtrial+.

Last, I don't see how I can overheal with max 3 healing skill on my bar, well, 2, I've remove ward today since I rarely need it.


I know I don't play common build and some people have hard time imagine them work, but it's ok, I don't try to convince them, I just love to read people who share they though, you can always get some good idea than you've missed before ^^

Have a nice day !

Edit : that said I'm not closed minded and will soon give more try to path ^^

rabid64 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

danara wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

danara wrote: »

I used to play dk healer to try it but i was very disapointed by the facts that it has too much problem like :
- his regen
- cauterize which was completely useless in 90% of the case
- cinder storm that heals nothing on a really small aoe for what it cost for exemple...
- Fragmented shield is cool because major mending is a unique feature for DK (by that i mean easy to access, i know every one can have it with resto staves HA), but the shield is too tiny in my opinion, i would prefer 1000 times a spell that give you major mending for 2.5 sec instead of 5 but give your mates a shield any sec like Illustrous Healing if you see what i mean)

Can't talk about nb because i never played them, just theory crafting (in my opinion that should have major life steal for class identity and be more relevant but if someone disagree pls explain ! )

SO, did someone here try hard dunjeons or trials content on the PTS ? and if so, can you gave me your build (set and bars) plus a feedback? in order to let me think about it !

Do you think it is possible to play DK with shields ?

Thanks everyone !

I did have a DK 2 years ago in PS4. I remmeber i used to use trinimace valor when it has a chance to proc since used opaidion shield a lots as when as combat physician with nightflame. Lots of shields and heals.

DK cautirize and f|$ting heals were most wilcomed changes back then when they were first inturduced.

i used to play them like that, but now i dont think this is really possible i mean you cant be as effective as a templar/warden

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

i really dont think that is a solution, it s already hard for most groups to do their job correctly, do not nerf them to the ground, instead, better address the problems of this classes (people enumerate them if you look at the answer i got on this thread ).
We shouldnt ask (sometimes yes) "why those one are so strong", but "one those one are so weak". This mentality would help to solve the problem of helping beginner without affecting the elite.

Iskiab wrote: »

I started as a magblade dps in trials, went magblade healer, got my templar to 50 and preferred PvE healing on my templar, switched to PvP NB healing. That’s how I’ve played the game so my experience is outdated and pre-resto staff ability changes.

Yeah the nb healer in pvp is a monster but never tried it, i should cause i have one ready, just waiting for his stuff ! How do you run it? i would imagine something like transmutation, earthgore (this set still rule pvp no?) and my vbrp resto staff ? (but i dont know how good the staff is know that the shield have been change...). And for the last set spot maybe something like shacklebreaker?

Thanks every one for the answer, it s good to have your thought about the problem!

Depends on the context. NB healing in BGs will be the weakest healers if you know what you’re doing because they’ll be prone to being bursted, so I wouldn’t recommend it. Even with the dizzy change.

Small - Large scale Cyro you can do okay. This might sound totally conceited but I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs look at metrics and are intentionally keeping NB healers weaker then others. I mean, no matter what the tooltips say why buff a class that's putting out 15k HPS in cyrodiil (excluding overhealing) when other classes aren't even coming close to that? Problem is most other classes have put next to 0 thought into their builds, so I'm just going to change classes and break the game on another class instead. Most older players seem content to never change their builds and fall behind meta, and do very little if any theorycrafting. Maybe just lazy IDK, either way the difference between what people are playing and what they can on other classes is pretty big.

This is the build I'm going to change to for the patch until I'm finished gearing my alts:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=182580

I'm actually running a pretty similar thing now pre-patch. Meritorious Service instead of treasure hunter though, which means I need to put Inner Light on my front bar, put phantasmal escape on my back bar, and I don't use merciless.

ur build isnt loading, says error, failed to load character

Oups, yea I deleted it. When I checked PTS cleanse was nerfed more then on live now (it didn't have +healing modifier scaling) but cleanse went live with the healing modifiers working.

Mind you this is only for large scale Cyrodiil:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=182400

I haven't hit 15k post patch, top out at around 12k which is still decent. Resists seem more important so I ended up sticking with meritorious. If you're more in the action I'd use bloodspawn, if you hang back the uptime isn't very good.

Front bar DW is for the highest tooltips, back bar DW is because DW healing looks amazing.

If you can afford better pots for major prophesy drop inner light, move phantasmal escape or siphoning strikes front bar, dark cloak back bar.

buttaface wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re wrong about Path though.

The wiki I checked said it was a foot narrower and several feet longer than blockade, and ingame, my experiences with it are similar. It is very easy to hit the whole team with it. If the fight moves, press the button again.

If they aren't braindead, they figure out fairly quickly that it speeds them up and heals them to be on it. They -love- the speed, the stam it allows them to save getting out of stuff, and the dps it improves getting them back. That's on a tank, but have no reason to believe it will be different on a healer.

Yea, refreshing path is solid for pve trial healing. Ritual has been buffed a ton so it’s closer to Path then it was, because before Path was double the HPS, but the size is a limitation.

I found some engagements easier on a NB then a Templar for example vHoF back when I did them. The issue is moreso in places like Asylum you’ll struggle big time. That also includes dungeons with spread out mechanics.

I haven’t done the later trials to know how it performs there. The issue with NB healing is whenever people spread out, if people are directly in front of you it’s fine.