Anyone tried DK/NB healer for high level content (Hard dunjeons or Trials)?

danara

I used to play dk healer to try it but i was very disapointed by the facts that it has too much problem like :
- his regen
- cauterize which was completely useless in 90% of the case
- cinder storm that heals nothing on a really small aoe for what it cost for exemple...
- Fragmented shield is cool because major mending is a unique feature for DK (by that i mean easy to access, i know every one can have it with resto staves HA), but the shield is too tiny in my opinion, i would prefer 1000 times a spell that give you major mending for 2.5 sec instead of 5 but give your mates a shield any sec like Illustrous Healing if you see what i mean)

Can't talk about nb because i never played them, just theory crafting (in my opinion that should have major life steal for class identity and be more relevant but if someone disagree pls explain ! )

SO, did someone here try hard dunjeons or trials content on the PTS ? and if so, can you gave me your build (set and bars) plus a feedback? in order to let me think about it !

Do you think it is possible to play DK with shields ?

Thanks everyone !

Iskiab

Yea, I’ve done all vet dungeons enough to get all the monster sets in each weight (except the most recent one) as a NB. I’ve also healed all the vet craglorn trials and vHoF.

I did them all before the healing springs nerf so things have changed since then. I went from PvE to PvP focused and didn’t see a point in doing more trials because I couldn’t devote myself to a raid schedule.

Mending/IA + Orloirme + Iceheart

Healthy Offering, Healing Springs, Combat Prayer, Refreshing Path, Sap Essence - Ult Soul Siphon

Debilitate, Blockade, Orbs, X, X - Ult Warhorn

The X’s are for abilities I can’t remember. You don’t need elemental drain because the tank will do major breach so the debuff is redundant. Iceheart because sap draws crazy aggro on trash and you’ll die without it. Sap spam on trash mobs is really good. For trials I went Nightflame.

Where NB performed well is with melee groups. When everyone’s stacked in front of you the HPS is really strong so performed really well in vHoF. The runs I did people actually said it was their smoothest runs.

Where it doesn’t perform well is spread out mechanics . Performed poorly in those settings.

This is all from before the resto and Templar buffs. These days the disparity would be worse.

I started as a magblade dps in trials, went magblade healer, got my templar to 50 and preferred PvE healing on my templar, switched to PvP NB healing. That’s how I’ve played the game so my experience is outdated and pre-resto staff ability changes.

I would not suggest NB healing in PvE anymore. With game changes I’m pretty sure they will be the weakest healers. There’s a sustain advantage but it’s not enough to make them worthwhile.

FakeFox

Healer builds are based on demand and demand does not change based on your class, so you end up with very similar setups on all classes. Templar, Warden and Necromancer fit into this specification better then other classes, but every class can heal all content in the game decently well, with the primary difference being the unique support provided.
This also means that you aren't going to see shield based DK healers having a lot of success. The shield can not replace AOE-HOTs and using it in addition isn't effective as it's not needed and the slots and GCDs are better used for support or DPS. Apart from that you have boneshield, which is not only numerically stronger, but also a support skill. DK healer for sure can have a unique playstyle but it's not going to be effective. Additionally we have DKs in the tank as well as DPS meta and you don't need a second DK.
The same thing goes for NB. It provides no unique benefits at all, except the class passives. But that is usually already covered by a tank or DPS. NB does not even offer anything good in terms of playstyle, it's kit mostly revolves around stacking percent modifiers to healing and survivability, which is amazing for tanking and PvP, but completely works against a support focused PvE healer.

the1andonlyskwex

They're both better than most people give them credit for. That said, both also have significant limitations compared to the classes with dedicated healing skill lines (Templar, Warden, Necromancer).

While there are certainly abilities that could use improvement (Cinder Storm, Fragmented Shield, Refreshing Path, Malevolent Offering), the biggest problem is that their best utility can also be provided by tanks or DPS of the same class (this is less true for the classes with dedicated healing skill lines because those classes have to equip healing skills to get some of their group utility).

Furthermore, much of the current meta for tanks and DPS assumes the presence of a Templar or Warden healer and the specific utility those classes provide. A group with a DK or NB healer will do significantly better if everyone builds with that healer in mind (mostly to avoid redundant effects, although there may also need to be some tradeoffs relating to sustain and/or survivability), but almost nobody actually does that because the meta is so entrenched.

the1andonlyskwex

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

FakeFox

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

Or they just start giving role specific buffs to other classes then Warden. Even Templar does technically provide nothing he can't simply do as a damage dealer, it's place in the meta is more down to group compositions then anything else. Warden on the other hand provides so many buffs with specific conditions that any role other then a healer and to some extend a offtank can't conveniently do it and is receiving even more buffs/debuffs. If this would be true for other classes as well, groups would need to choose what support they want, making different classes relevant, instead of having one Warden and pushing whatever class is least favorable for DPS or tanking to the second healer spot.

Kesstryl

My DK Healer was fun to play before the heal nerfs (healing springs, etc) and I ran him through dungeons all the time. Ever since the heal nerfs, he's just a crafting alt. Unfortunately his class heals sucked in comparison to Templars, and he relied healily on the previous heal meta with healing springs and combat prayer, but I did still use his class based heals in my rotations because they added fun. Now he's just not worth playing at all. It sucks because he was more fun to heal with than my templar, but now I only run my templar healer in dungeons and trials.

Iskiab

I don’t think NB or DKs will be the meta healer without substantial buffs, even if the entire raid builds for it.

NBs also have just as many healing abilities as Templars. The issue moreso is that most suck.

NBs:
Funnel Health - terrible
Refreshing Path - okay but small area
Healthy Offering - okay
Soul Siphon - 1 second cast time on a healing ultimate makes it bad as an emergency heal, Warhorn required for group buffs
Sap - melee range and not great outside trash packs
No group synergy hurting the group

DKs:
Shard - great after the PTS buff
Cinder Storm - area too small to be effective if spreading out is ever required
Cauterize - okay
Group Shield - okay for Major mending
Sustain - terrible
Has synergy for the group

They’ve played with values which has nothing to do with the heart of the issue. The issue is most of the abilities are ineffective as a healer because of size, requiring penetration, etc... which is a failure in core ability concepts.

If I had to choose one for this patch it would undoubtedly be a DK. Skip cinder storm and you’ll crush dungeons pretty easily. Just don’t expect to have success in trials. A MagDK is probably strong enough to tank and heal a dungeon this patch, but sustain will catch up in a trial.

universal_wrath

danara wrote: »

I used to play dk healer to try it but i was very disapointed by the facts that it has too much problem like :
- his regen
- cauterize which was completely useless in 90% of the case
- cinder storm that heals nothing on a really small aoe for what it cost for exemple...
- Fragmented shield is cool because major mending is a unique feature for DK (by that i mean easy to access, i know every one can have it with resto staves HA), but the shield is too tiny in my opinion, i would prefer 1000 times a spell that give you major mending for 2.5 sec instead of 5 but give your mates a shield any sec like Illustrous Healing if you see what i mean)

Can't talk about nb because i never played them, just theory crafting (in my opinion that should have major life steal for class identity and be more relevant but if someone disagree pls explain ! )

SO, did someone here try hard dunjeons or trials content on the PTS ? and if so, can you gave me your build (set and bars) plus a feedback? in order to let me think about it !

Do you think it is possible to play DK with shields ?

Thanks everyone !

I did have a DK 2 years ago in PS4. I remmeber i used to use trinimace valor when it has a chance to proc since used opaidion shield a lots as when as combat physician with nightflame. Lots of shields and heals.

DK cautirize and f|$ting heals were most wilcomed changes back then when they were first inturduced.

Integral1900

Personally I see them as viable but hard work... sometimes very hard work 😓

Under the right conditions they can be surprisingly powerful

They can both bring solid healing, the problem though is that they are often set up to be far too complex. For example, if a fight is getting messy, the rng/glitch has disrupted your normal flow, I don’t want a healer that has to think a lot. I want a healer to go eeeeekk! and spam breath of life or some such

In high pressure situations simple is always best

xeha_arwen11

I am a healer main and have healed with both nightblades and dks. I really enjoy the style of healing for both, but they just don't work very well for super hard situations in my opinion. Most people don't stay in the heals when panic sets in, especially when some of them are tiny aoes or hard to see. If you are a skilled healer, a templar healer can fix almost any idiot's mistakes. They have an advanced healing toolset like wardens, and I use my templar healer main for the hardest content. That and I just have always enjoyed the templar's way of dpsing and healing.

Nightblades and dks struggle big time when all your teammates are running around like headless chickens, avoiding your heals like they are the enemy's attacks. They just can't measure up to templars and wardens when it comes to heals. I really like healing with them though.

It also irritates me when people think templars and wardens are "easy mode". Healing with them also takes a lot of thought. Standing there spamming BoL will get you a wipe and nothing else in extremely hard content. It's about placement, timing, strategy, careful resource management, and lots of thought when it comes to templar healing and all healing in this game.

And if you have a very talented team that doesn't need much heals, then it's about adding to the dps while keeping a sharp eye out for issues and being there to save them if they get in trouble.

danara

universal_wrath wrote: »

danara wrote: »

I used to play dk healer to try it but i was very disapointed by the facts that it has too much problem like :
- his regen
- cauterize which was completely useless in 90% of the case
- cinder storm that heals nothing on a really small aoe for what it cost for exemple...
- Fragmented shield is cool because major mending is a unique feature for DK (by that i mean easy to access, i know every one can have it with resto staves HA), but the shield is too tiny in my opinion, i would prefer 1000 times a spell that give you major mending for 2.5 sec instead of 5 but give your mates a shield any sec like Illustrous Healing if you see what i mean)

Can't talk about nb because i never played them, just theory crafting (in my opinion that should have major life steal for class identity and be more relevant but if someone disagree pls explain ! )

SO, did someone here try hard dunjeons or trials content on the PTS ? and if so, can you gave me your build (set and bars) plus a feedback? in order to let me think about it !

Do you think it is possible to play DK with shields ?

Thanks everyone !

I did have a DK 2 years ago in PS4. I remmeber i used to use trinimace valor when it has a chance to proc since used opaidion shield a lots as when as combat physician with nightflame. Lots of shields and heals.

DK cautirize and f|$ting heals were most wilcomed changes back then when they were first inturduced.

i used to play them like that, but now i dont think this is really possible i mean you cant be as effective as a templar/warden

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

i really dont think that is a solution, it s already hard for most groups to do their job correctly, do not nerf them to the ground, instead, better address the problems of this classes (people enumerate them if you look at the answer i got on this thread ).
We shouldnt ask (sometimes yes) "why those one are so strong", but "one those one are so weak". This mentality would help to solve the problem of helping beginner without affecting the elite.

Iskiab wrote: »

I started as a magblade dps in trials, went magblade healer, got my templar to 50 and preferred PvE healing on my templar, switched to PvP NB healing. That’s how I’ve played the game so my experience is outdated and pre-resto staff ability changes.

Yeah the nb healer in pvp is a monster but never tried it, i should cause i have one ready, just waiting for his stuff ! How do you run it? i would imagine something like transmutation, earthgore (this set still rule pvp no?) and my vbrp resto staff ? (but i dont know how good the staff is know that the shield have been change...). And for the last set spot maybe something like shacklebreaker?

Thanks every one for the answer, it s good to have your thought about the problem!

WrathOfInnos

Nightblade healer is fun in dungeons, I used to do vet DLC’s on it all the time. Funnel Health and Refreshing Path cover most of the healing, and you have a burst heal if needed. Debilitate means you don’t need to use Ele Drain like other healers, and Veil of Blades is a powerful tool to keep your team alive while doing damage. You can put out enough damage to make a difference, especially with random groups.

I don’t really think it scales up well in trials though. You won’t be able to keep Funnel on everyone, and single target heals are less useful. You might kill yourself if you spam offering on too many people. Path is also a little narrow for hitting everyone unless it is a very coordinated stack. And in a larger trial group the amount of damage you add is negligible. That leaves only Veil, which you’ll likely be replacing with Warhorn in any organized trial.

I can’t speak to DK healer at all.

the1andonlyskwex

danara wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

i really dont think that is a solution, it s already hard for most groups to do their job correctly, do not nerf them to the ground, instead, better address the problems of this classes (people enumerate them if you look at the answer i got on this thread ).
We shouldnt ask (sometimes yes) "why those one are so strong", but "one those one are so weak". This mentality would help to solve the problem of helping beginner without affecting the elite.

I think you missed my point. Even if DK and NB healers are buffed to be competitive (and I would argue they're already pretty close), that won't change the meta because everyone else has characters built around the strengths and weaknesses of Templar (and to a lesser extent Warden) healers.

The only solution to this problem is to get people to try off-meta healing. This can be achieved in two ways, but only one is (part of) a long-term solution.

Option 1: Buff off-meta healers so they're significantly better than the current meta healers. This will get people to switch, but you'll have a bunch of overpowered healers running around. This will eventually lead to nerfs and everyone switching back to Templars and Wardens.

Option 2: Nerf the current meta. People will then switch to NB and DK healers and realize they're not nearly as bad as people think. Then, when Templars and Wardens are eventually buffed back up, some people will stick with their DKs and NBs because they like the playstyle and know (from experience) that they perform more than adequately already.

buttaface

Have not healed in a while in this game, did lots in the past, but don't see how permanent major expedition on the team, the health based spot heal with permanent minor mending and bolstering darkness, with this patch AOE minor vulnerability, don't make NBs at least competitive with all other classes for that role, especially in four man where there may not be another NB for hemorrhage.

Healing in ESO is essentially two HOTs (usually one resto, one class, but can be two resto), Combat Prayer, Orb and a Spot Heal, then debuffs and buffs from skills, ults, passives and gear. Not really that complicated, and it doesn't seem any class has "winner winner" skills, passives and ults over any other. Far more important are resource management and map awareness/familiarity. The player, not the class, determines both of those.

Someone please spell out to me -specifically- how ANY class does that better than ANY other class at healing as the game exists currently. Please don't blithely toss out the "X class simply has better tools for healing," as that's nebulous and IMO not true. It seems that healing with this or that class is merely tradeoff selection, "you either get this for the team or this for the team," with no hierarchy at all, unlike the past.

idk

Pretty much any dungeon can be healed by any class. Of course healer skill and group coordination go a long way regardless of what class you are healing on.

I remember early in the game a guild member was standing behind me. I asked them to move forward. A couple days later they told me they finally understood why I asked them to move foreword. Easier to heal someone in front of you and some range players think they have to use all that range (lol).

WrathOfInnos

buttaface wrote: »

Have not healed in a while in this game, did lots in the past, but don't see how permanent major expedition on the team, the health based spot heal with permanent minor mending and bolstering darkness, with this patch AOE minor vulnerability, don't make NBs at least competitive with all other classes for that role, especially in four man where there may not be another NB for hemorrhage.

Healing in ESO is essentially two HOTs (usually one resto, one class, but can be two resto), Combat Prayer, Orb and a Spot Heal, then debuffs and buffs from skills, ults, passives and gear. Not really that complicated, and it doesn't seem any class has "winner winner" skills, passives and ults over any other. Far more important are resource management and map awareness/familiarity. The player, not the class, determines both of those.

Someone please spell out to me -specifically- how ANY class does that better than ANY other class at healing as the game exists currently. Please don't blithely toss out the "X class simply has better tools for healing," as that's nebulous and IMO not true. It seems that healing with this or that class is merely tradeoff selection, "you either get this for the team or this for the team," with no hierarchy at all, unlike the past.

Templar is an easy one. Ritual of Retribution is much better than Refreshing Path because it has a larger area, a heal/purge synergy and deals damage (like Refreshing Path used to before it was butchered). Breath of Life hits 2 other players instead of Offering’s 1, and can be controlled better since it is a frontal smart heal. Power of the Light is an important debuff (Minor Breach and Fracture) that only a Templar can provide with good uptime. And Shards can be a nice alternative to Orbs to give both resources to a tank, especially from a long distance. They also provide Minor Sorcery to the group, but this is balanced with Nightblade’s Minor Savagery.

The AoE Minor Vuln will be nice on Nightblade, but this has never really been a problem with IA. After the patch, I would bet that Wardens will be taking care of Minor Vuln with Swarm. Speaking of Wardens, they bring some nice utility as healers too: Minor Toughness, Major Ward/Resolve, Minor Intellect and Endurance, the Harvest synergy, and easy access to Major Mending.

PullaStormy

I've done vet dungeons as healblade ever since I was around 300 CP. Works like a dream, and you can also boost your team mates with siphon skill 5 (forgot its name). No idea how dragonknight works since I've never tried it for healing, but surely when you know it inside out!

IMO if you know what you're doing, anything can work.

Iskiab

danara wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

danara wrote: »

I used to play dk healer to try it but i was very disapointed by the facts that it has too much problem like :
- his regen
- cauterize which was completely useless in 90% of the case
- cinder storm that heals nothing on a really small aoe for what it cost for exemple...
- Fragmented shield is cool because major mending is a unique feature for DK (by that i mean easy to access, i know every one can have it with resto staves HA), but the shield is too tiny in my opinion, i would prefer 1000 times a spell that give you major mending for 2.5 sec instead of 5 but give your mates a shield any sec like Illustrous Healing if you see what i mean)

Can't talk about nb because i never played them, just theory crafting (in my opinion that should have major life steal for class identity and be more relevant but if someone disagree pls explain ! )

SO, did someone here try hard dunjeons or trials content on the PTS ? and if so, can you gave me your build (set and bars) plus a feedback? in order to let me think about it !

Do you think it is possible to play DK with shields ?

Thanks everyone !

I did have a DK 2 years ago in PS4. I remmeber i used to use trinimace valor when it has a chance to proc since used opaidion shield a lots as when as combat physician with nightflame. Lots of shields and heals.

DK cautirize and f|$ting heals were most wilcomed changes back then when they were first inturduced.

i used to play them like that, but now i dont think this is really possible i mean you cant be as effective as a templar/warden

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

By the way, one way (possibly the only way) to fix the problem with the meta is to nerf Templar and Warden healers into the ground for one patch. Then people will adjust their builds and realize that other healers aren't so bad. After a few months of that, ZOS could then buff Templars and Wardens back up (without nerfing other healers in the process) and maybe you'd see a more balanced distribution of healer classes going forward.

i really dont think that is a solution, it s already hard for most groups to do their job correctly, do not nerf them to the ground, instead, better address the problems of this classes (people enumerate them if you look at the answer i got on this thread ).
We shouldnt ask (sometimes yes) "why those one are so strong", but "one those one are so weak". This mentality would help to solve the problem of helping beginner without affecting the elite.

Iskiab wrote: »

I started as a magblade dps in trials, went magblade healer, got my templar to 50 and preferred PvE healing on my templar, switched to PvP NB healing. That’s how I’ve played the game so my experience is outdated and pre-resto staff ability changes.

Yeah the nb healer in pvp is a monster but never tried it, i should cause i have one ready, just waiting for his stuff ! How do you run it? i would imagine something like transmutation, earthgore (this set still rule pvp no?) and my vbrp resto staff ? (but i dont know how good the staff is know that the shield have been change...). And for the last set spot maybe something like shacklebreaker?

Thanks every one for the answer, it s good to have your thought about the problem!

Depends on the context. NB healing in BGs will be the weakest healers if you know what you’re doing because they’ll be prone to being bursted, so I wouldn’t recommend it. Even with the dizzy change.

Small - Large scale Cyro you can do okay. This might sound totally conceited but I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs look at metrics and are intentionally keeping NB healers weaker then others. I mean, no matter what the tooltips say why buff a class that's putting out 15k HPS in cyrodiil (excluding overhealing) when other classes aren't even coming close to that? Problem is most other classes have put next to 0 thought into their builds, so I'm just going to change classes and break the game on another class instead. Most older players seem content to never change their builds and fall behind meta, and do very little if any theorycrafting. Maybe just lazy IDK, either way the difference between what people are playing and what they can on other classes is pretty big.

This is the build I'm going to change to for the patch until I'm finished gearing my alts:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=182580

I'm actually running a pretty similar thing now pre-patch. Meritorious Service instead of treasure hunter though, which means I need to put Inner Light on my front bar, put phantasmal escape on my back bar, and I don't use merciless.

idk

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

Have not healed in a while in this game, did lots in the past, but don't see how permanent major expedition on the team, the health based spot heal with permanent minor mending and bolstering darkness, with this patch AOE minor vulnerability, don't make NBs at least competitive with all other classes for that role, especially in four man where there may not be another NB for hemorrhage.

Healing in ESO is essentially two HOTs (usually one resto, one class, but can be two resto), Combat Prayer, Orb and a Spot Heal, then debuffs and buffs from skills, ults, passives and gear. Not really that complicated, and it doesn't seem any class has "winner winner" skills, passives and ults over any other. Far more important are resource management and map awareness/familiarity. The player, not the class, determines both of those.

Someone please spell out to me -specifically- how ANY class does that better than ANY other class at healing as the game exists currently. Please don't blithely toss out the "X class simply has better tools for healing," as that's nebulous and IMO not true. It seems that healing with this or that class is merely tradeoff selection, "you either get this for the team or this for the team," with no hierarchy at all, unlike the past.

Templar is an easy one. Ritual of Retribution is much better than Refreshing Path because it has a larger area, a heal/purge synergy and deals damage (like Refreshing Path used to before it was butchered). Breath of Life hits 2 other players instead of Offering’s 1, and can be controlled better since it is a frontal smart heal. Power of the Light is an important debuff (Minor Breach and Fracture) that only a Templar can provide with good uptime. And Shards can be a nice alternative to Orbs to give both resources to a tank, especially from a long distance. They also provide Minor Sorcery to the group, but this is balanced with Nightblade’s Minor Savagery.

The AoE Minor Vuln will be nice on Nightblade, but this has never really been a problem with IA. After the patch, I would bet that Wardens will be taking care of Minor Vuln with Swarm. Speaking of Wardens, they bring some nice utility as healers too: Minor Toughness, Major Ward/Resolve, Minor Intellect and Endurance, the Harvest synergy, and easy access to Major Mending.

+1 here. Templar was by far the top healer in raids since the game launched and Wardens quickly became a close second when they are added to the game. The various reasons you point out are very solid.

ShadowKyuubi

The main reason NB and DK healers are not that common isn't because of their healing capabilities. It is because of a lack of synergies in their abilities. NB litreally have no base skills (if I remember correctly) that can be synergized with, only ultimates. DK have talons...which is not typically run on a healer. Templars have shards and ritual. Wardens have that one heal I can't remember....

buttaface

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Templar is an easy one. Ritual of Retribution is much better than Refreshing Path because it has a larger area, a heal/purge synergy and deals damage (like Refreshing Path used to before it was butchered).

Not really what I asked. I'm well aware of what Templar skills and passives do, when I did heal this game, it was on a Templar. And I'm looking for objective, not opinions with some deck-stacking by not properly giving NB its due in the comparison.

Path is about the same size as ROR actually, which heals for less, can draw unwanted aggro, and doesn't give major expedition, so it comes down to major expedition and better heal or another synergy/purge. If a purge is required, NB can slot Purge and use some of that saved magicka over BOL to cast it when/if needed. RE synergies, have never had anyone complain about the amount of synergies in the team when orb is always cast on CD. What I find mostly as a tank is that the ROR synergy is a hindrance overlaying another synergy I want more. But I don't tank many trials. When I have, there's usually way too many synergies to pick them all up and I never have any sustain problems. IIRC, everyone can hit orb on its way through now. If there's some cutting edge trial team that needs a synergy every three seconds, I won't ever be on it, been there, done that for years, never again. YMMV.

POTL is nice for minor breach/fracture, so in a group, it's nice to have -one- Templar somewhere in some role using it. Just like it's nice to have a NB for hemorrhage in the team too. Lots of folks running Shadow mundus and esp in 4 man, there is often not another NB in the team. You didn't mention hemorrhage at all, if no NB in team, and it happens, it's at least as good as minor b/f.

The reason I asked originally is I'm going to do some more healing in ESO, but probably on a NB this time, and built for fast ult, bolstering dark on one bar and WH on the other. I have a fast ult generation Templar build for major maim via solar disturbance, but it's not as fast as the NB at getting the mitigation ult back up due mostly to the 25% higher cost of the ult. If I can heal just fine with orbs, combat prayer, springs (or whatever mutagen is now) and a health based spot heal, while speeding the team up and dropping major protection every 20 seconds or so in tougher content, why not do that?

Iskiab

buttaface wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Templar is an easy one. Ritual of Retribution is much better than Refreshing Path because it has a larger area, a heal/purge synergy and deals damage (like Refreshing Path used to before it was butchered).

Not really what I asked. I'm well aware of what Templar skills and passives do, when I did heal this game, it was on a Templar. And I'm looking for objective, not opinions with some deck-stacking by not properly giving NB its due in the comparison.

Path is about the same size as ROR actually, which heals for less, can draw unwanted aggro, and doesn't give major expedition, so it comes down to major expedition and better heal or another synergy/purge. If a purge is required, NB can slot Purge and use some of that saved magicka over BOL to cast it when/if needed. RE synergies, have never had anyone complain about the amount of synergies in the team when orb is always cast on CD. What I find mostly as a tank is that the ROR synergy is a hindrance overlaying another synergy I want more. But I don't tank many trials. When I have, there's usually way too many synergies to pick them all up and I never have any sustain problems. IIRC, everyone can hit orb on its way through now. If there's some cutting edge trial team that needs a synergy every three seconds, I won't ever be on it, been there, done that for years, never again. YMMV.

POTL is nice for minor breach/fracture, so in a group, it's nice to have -one- Templar somewhere in some role using it. Just like it's nice to have a NB for hemorrhage in the team too. Lots of folks running Shadow mundus and esp in 4 man, there is often not another NB in the team. You didn't mention hemorrhage at all, if no NB in team, and it happens, it's at least as good as minor b/f.

The reason I asked originally is I'm going to do some more healing in ESO, but probably on a NB this time, and built for fast ult, bolstering dark on one bar and WH on the other. I have a fast ult generation Templar build for major maim via solar disturbance, but it's not as fast as the NB at getting the mitigation ult back up due mostly to the 25% higher cost of the ult. If I can heal just fine with orbs, combat prayer, springs (or whatever mutagen is now) and a health based spot heal, while speeding the team up and dropping major protection every 20 seconds or so in tougher content, why not do that?

For vet dungeon no worries. Every healer type can do all vet dungeons HM including DLCs no issue.

Coming from a templar it’ll be easy to adjust. Use the same setup as you do on a templar basicly, it’s easier to say in point form so...
- debilitate instead of elemental drain (optional)
- no shards and only orbs
- Instead of shards spam on trash use sap spam (use Iceheart if you use sap)
- You can throw in the execute too (impale) if you feel like it, but I personally didn’t like it after trying it. I didn’t like being caught in a GCD when you could potentially have saved a dps with healthy Offering if they get caught in a mechanic
- You’ll notice the dps is lower on a NB them a templar. Usually I hit 10k ST and 30k aoe but ST is a little lower on a NB
- All your healing is frontal so I didn’t like lotus fan as a healer, it puts dps behind you. Maybe with the lotus fan aoe minor vulnerability it’ll be better (lotus and then sap spam on trash)

One thing, refreshing path is considerably smaller then RoR. It’s still necessary to give yourself more reaction time for healthy Offering.

If you’ve healed dungeons as a templar you’ll have no issues doing it on a NB. Just don’t use funnel health, ever. It’s the ability that make people think NBs aren’t good healers.

danara

PullaStormy wrote: »

One thing, refreshing path is considerably smaller then RoR. It’s still necessary to give yourself more reaction time for healthy Offering.

If you’ve healed dungeons as a templar you’ll have no issues doing it on a NB. Just don’t use funnel health, ever. It’s the ability that make people think NBs aren’t good healers.

Refreshing Path is still a very decent aoe, it is not as good as ROR because it doesnt have a synnergy for ally, but in my memories in terms of hps this patch it s higher than ROR cause ROR heal every 2 sec.

Funnel health is kind of sad, that is the kind of unique ability NB healer need to have rework + a unique debuff (Major Life Stealing looks perfect for them). Imagine if Funnel Health could heal let s say 6 person any second but the healing output is based on a smaller %of your damage, it could be great really, like if it s a new hot but only for NB....

The new aoe minor vuln has to be take into account now, do we want to have a nb healer in the group for this? or do we accept that we have less uptime of minor vuln with the common healer and wall of element? And we still need to run wall for the off balance effect!

buttaface

Iskiab wrote: »

- You’ll notice the dps is lower on a NB them a templar. Usually I hit 10k ST and 30k aoe but ST is a little lower on a NB.

Thanks for the tips. The above is what I'm more worried about on a NB healer in non elite content. Ironic that the "healing class" can so easily out dps the "rogue class" in this game. And yes, unlike other classes' executes, the NB's seems clunky in comparison and even inferior. Again, irony in the rogue class, which is usually the king of ST dmg in these games.

Iskiab

danara wrote: »

PullaStormy wrote: »

One thing, refreshing path is considerably smaller then RoR. It’s still necessary to give yourself more reaction time for healthy Offering.

If you’ve healed dungeons as a templar you’ll have no issues doing it on a NB. Just don’t use funnel health, ever. It’s the ability that make people think NBs aren’t good healers.

Refreshing Path is still a very decent aoe, it is not as good as ROR because it doesnt have a synnergy for ally, but in my memories in terms of hps this patch it s higher than ROR cause ROR heal every 2 sec.

Funnel health is kind of sad, that is the kind of unique ability NB healer need to have rework + a unique debuff (Major Life Stealing looks perfect for them). Imagine if Funnel Health could heal let s say 6 person any second but the healing output is based on a smaller %of your damage, it could be great really, like if it s a new hot but only for NB....

The new aoe minor vuln has to be take into account now, do we want to have a nb healer in the group for this? or do we accept that we have less uptime of minor vuln with the common healer and wall of element? And we still need to run wall for the off balance effect!

Actually RoR was buffed a lot since I last checked it. The difference in HPS is minimal, maybe 20% higher tops for refreshing path but RoR does a lot of damage.

buttaface wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

- You’ll notice the dps is lower on a NB them a templar. Usually I hit 10k ST and 30k aoe but ST is a little lower on a NB.

Thanks for the tips. The above is what I'm more worried about on a NB healer in non elite content. Ironic that the "healing class" can so easily out dps the "rogue class" in this game. And yes, unlike other classes' executes, the NB's seems clunky in comparison and even inferior. Again, irony in the rogue class, which is usually the king of ST dmg in these games.

Yea it is. Templars have had their damage buffed a lot.

Thinking about it you could try to weave in merciless for more damage but you’ll get sick of it if you use springs. Looking up and looking down all the time is a pain, I prefer to fire light attacks no matter what abilities I use and then not care much about whether they hit.

Focusing too much on damage is a no go, you need to focus on mechanics and health levels.

Healer dps is important though, too many healers focus purely on healing which is why groups prefer 1 tank and 3 dps.

danara

Iskiab wrote: »

danara wrote: »

PullaStormy wrote: »

Healer dps is important though, too many healers focus purely on healing which is why groups prefer 1 tank and 3 dps.

99% of the time they just dont take a healer beacause the tank can self sustain and if the dd are not stupid then can take care of them selves, and the damage produce by a healer (his own damage and the damage produce when his mates are boosted) is lower than when you take a new dd

Iskiab

danara wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

danara wrote: »

PullaStormy wrote: »

Healer dps is important though, too many healers focus purely on healing which is why groups prefer 1 tank and 3 dps.

99% of the time they just dont take a healer beacause the tank can self sustain and if the dd are not stupid then can take care of them selves, and the damage produce by a healer (his own damage and the damage produce when his mates are boosted) is lower than when you take a new dd

Yup, but that shouldn’t be possible with a good healer.

By good healer I mean adapting to the situation. If there’s nothing to heal doing some damage makes sense.

In the same way solo specs are different from trial specs, dungeons specs should be different from solo or trial specs. My go to set for doing more damage in dungeons is mother’s sorrow.

Aznarb

NB :

I play my NB healer as a buffer/debuffer and heal a bit (no need alot when dps are good).

- Chudan/Symphony of Blade (I love chudan since it give easy access to the lack of M. resolve on NB)
- Olorime
- Master Architect
- Double resto precise
- Thief mundus


1st bar :
- Healing Ward (I don't like Offering, can put you in very dangerous situation sometime)
- Sap Ess
- Prayer (the other morph is amazing if you need more healing)
- Spring (for olo)
- Inner light (flex)
- Soul Harvest

2sd bar :
- Phantasmal escape
- Siphon / path (sustain, utility : flex)
- Mystic Orb
- Lotus Fan / path (flex)
- Inner light (flex)
- Soul Harvest (best uptime for MA, can be flex)

Amazing result in all 4 man content including all vet arena/hm.

For Raid I switch MA for Hollowfang gonna help magicka alot with the lower sustain they got this patch.
I'll of replace both Soul Harvest for Bolstering Darkness + War Horn.
And ofc adjust the skill bar a bit and it work fine.

DK :

I don't have play my DK healer since a lot of time, but mostly because I don't like it (same for necro).
But it's pretty easy to make DK work too. The biggest problem of DK is sustain imo.
If you wanna abuse major mending you gonna need a set like Bright-Throat (julianos can be good but you gonna have low magicka pool = less healing), Add Olo, 1 monster set you like (blade, chudan, bogdan, earthgore, sentinel (rip)..)
Don't be afraid to reach 2k8 magika regen on DK.

For the skill it's pretty common, DK don't have that much good skill.
Stone is to slow for emergency, aoe heal is tiny and way to costly, so cauterize seem to be the only good DK healing spell.
Magma armor + horn seem fine as ult.
Then something like :
1 - heal ward + frag shield + muta + prayer/blessing + cauterize + Magma armor
2 - armor + ele drain + WE + Orb + Molten + War Horn
Atro mundus

Hope it help, have fun ^^

danara

Aznarb wrote: »

NB :

I play my NB healer as a buffer/debuffer and heal a bit (no need alot when dps are good).

- Chudan/Symphony of Blade (I love chudan since it give easy access to the lack of M. resolve on NB)
- Olorime
- Master Architect
- Double resto precise
- Thief mundus


1st bar :
- Healing Ward (I don't like Offering, can put you in very dangerous situation sometime)
- Sap Ess
- Prayer (the other morph is amazing if you need more healing)
- Spring (for olo)
- Inner light (flex)
- Soul Harvest

2sd bar :
- Phantasmal escape
- Siphon / path (sustain, utility : flex)
- Mystic Orb
- Lotus Fan / path (flex)
- Inner light (flex)
- Soul Harvest (best uptime for MA, can be flex)

Amazing result in all 4 man content including all vet arena/hm.

For Raid I switch MA for Hollowfang gonna help magicka alot with the lower sustain they got this patch.
I'll of replace both Soul Harvest for Bolstering Darkness + War Horn.
And ofc adjust the skill bar a bit and it work fine.

I m not a big fan of your build, as a healer in pve you dont need :

Chudan (why do you need major ward/resolve? it s useless for a heal)
Phantsmal escape : unless you kite on CR or AS i dont see the point on this one
Spring : after the last patch i prefer the other morph, heal for 12sec instead of 8 and heal more, since we cant spam springs and orbs anymore the regen is now completely useless

I think for a trial spec i would go something like that :


monster set : right know i think that Bogdan is the king, but on some fight where you need a lot of purge (first vHoF boss for example, Hearthgore is always an option)
5 Pieces of Martial Knowledge (you will understand why after) -> give +8% damage and it stacks with minor vulnerability
3 Perfected Olorime Pieces

Main bar : Master Resto Staff
1 > Healthy offering (+8% healing for a little dot on you is ok considering how strong your hots ticks)
2 > Illustrous Healing (still a decent aoe)
3 > Combat Prayer
4 > Radiant Regen (one of the strongest hot in the game right now, usually on my build i heal for 25k with this on 10 sec)
5 > Debilitate (dot + 8% magicka passive + Magicka steal = you dont need Elemental Drain
Ult > If you dont need Veil Of Blades from the shadow tree then go for Incapaciting Strike for passive magicka critic AND for this "While slotted you gain Reave, which restores XX Magicka and Stamina when you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack on an enemy with a negative effect active on them." (and i dont care because i ll absolutely never drop this ult)

Off bar : Perfected Olorime shock staff
1 > Siphonning Attacks, i dont know how good i can sustain on this build, if it is enough i think i would remove this for sap essence, and i need purge i ll put it here
2 > wall of element for the off balance proc then minor vuln, i think that if i have a tank or a nb dd it will be his job to put minor vuln with Lotus Fan/Ambush or even with the fly of the warden
3 > Path : one of strongest healing aoe on the game in terme of HPS, maybe i would switch Healthy Offering and Path to have all my hot on the same bar
4 > orb
5 > Bone Surge in order to proc Martial Knowledge, it also give what nb lack of : Synnergie. Plus it give Major Vitality to 6 people for 6 seconds, wonderfull burst heal tool
Ult > Warhorn

Urzigurumash

With the improvement to Trinimac's Valor DK healers have never been so pleasing to the senses