Another difficulty post

seipher09 · October 2019

So I'm an ex member who actually kinda misses the game. I've made another post about this in the past and wanted to get more opinions about this as I was talking to a friend from work who also quit the game for the same reasons.

The game is simply to easy. 0 challenge at all. World bosses can be soloed. A lot of dungeons can be soloed. That alone means the easy content can be done by a new born baby smacking a keyboard. And yes once you get high cp realistically a new born baby can take on tons of mobs smacking a keyboard. A sorcerer geared corrctly for example using one single storm skill can heal them and do enough damage to kill about 8 mob groups in one single button.

Eso.....please make a shrine or something we can use that increases difficulty. Put a symbol next to our name so others know we used the shrine. When used enemies deal x% more damage and we deal x% less damage or something! Give the fights an actual meaning. Of course make this I optional for those who don't want it.

I do not even care about extra rewards for using an option like this but please make something a little itty bitty challenge.

To those who say don't use cp ? You are simply wrong because that kills character progression completely. New players I understand may struggle with, again is why this should be optional. Help players who find this very easy game to easy but don't punish others.

Side quest. This horrible demon is so strong they overran our entire village and killed many. I face them they die in a half second????

Please make this game enjoyable for everyone!

Canned_Apples · October 2019

YES. OVERLAND PVE IN THIS GAME IS SO BORING. I WANT TO QUEST, BUT I DON'T BECAUSE NOTHING POSES ANY CHALLENGE. I SIMPLY KILL EVERYTHING IN TWO HITS OR JUST RUN PAST ALL THE MOBS.

They did the same thing in other mmos, like swtor and rift.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, with all its flaws, was one of the few games that posed a challenge. I miss those days.

Pvp is now the only thing I enjoy in this game.

The_Old_Goat · October 2019

Gross exaggerations aside(realistic new born baby reference), it seems the tools to make the game more challenging are already here. Willfully choosing not to reset your cp is on you.

Girl_Number8 · October 2019

Why would Zos listen to people who quit the game? If you haven't completed all the endgame achievements then this is moot point. If you have, then you wouldn't care about basic overland difficulty. We are losing enough players as it is.

They really should only allow active game accounts to have forum access imo.

I have been in a vet trials raid group and guild for years and we simply don't quit, if we did then we wouldn't ever achieve anything.

Jeremy · October 2019

seipher09 wrote: »

So I'm an ex member who actually kinda misses the game. I've made another post about this in the past and wanted to get more opinions about this as I was talking to a friend from work who also quit the game for the same reasons.

The game is simply to easy. 0 challenge at all. World bosses can be soloed. A lot of dungeons can be soloed. That alone means the easy content can be done by a new born baby smacking a keyboard. And yes once you get high cp realistically a new born baby can take on tons of mobs smacking a keyboard. A sorcerer geared corrctly for example using one single storm skill can heal them and do enough damage to kill about 8 mob groups in one single button.

Eso.....please make a shrine or something we can use that increases difficulty. Put a symbol next to our name so others know we used the shrine. When used enemies deal x% more damage and we deal x% less damage or something! Give the fights an actual meaning. Of course make this I optional for those who don't want it.

I do not even care about extra rewards for using an option like this but please make something a little itty bitty challenge.

To those who say don't use cp ? You are simply wrong because that kills character progression completely. New players I understand may struggle with, again is why this should be optional. Help players who find this very easy game to easy but don't punish others.

Side quest. This horrible demon is so strong they overran our entire village and killed many. I face them they die in a half second????

Please make this game enjoyable for everyone!

I agree with much of what you say. They need to introduce a veteran version of each zone (like they already do with dungeons) so players like you, I and others can quest/explore in more challenging zones. Because you're right, much of the landscape content is brain dead easy, especially for high level players, and it makes questing and exploring a lot less fun than it could be.

That being said: at least they are starting to move in the right direction because Dragons are actually challenging and represent what world bosses should be.

I also agree with you that expecting players to remove their CP or strip down naked for challenge is idiotic. I'll quit the game long before I ever entertain such a stupid solution.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2019

seipher09 wrote: »

The game is simply to easy. 0 challenge at all. World bosses can be soloed...

...by some people. With some builds.

A lot of dungeons can be soloed.

...by some people. With some builds.

That alone means the easy content can be done by a new born baby smacking a keyboard.

I still remember, back right before Summerset came out (before the various nerfs, and while there were also "omg, too easy!" threads), starting a new character in Morrowind and listening to the people in general chat talking about how the overland mobs were killing them, and having other folks chime in to agree.

So....

edit: and as I ask whenever one of these threads pops up - can any of you name me a modern, mainstream MMO where the overland & quest content (as opposed to elite dungeons, raids, and pvp) is any challenge to top-end players? I'm honestly curious.

Taleof2Cities · October 2019

Still don't understand why players want more challenging content ... when they don't want to do the existing challenging content already in the game.

There are a handful of 37k+ achievement players who have cleared pretty much all the content.

But I'm guessing any forum goer who has posted in this thread is not near that threshhold.

Canned_Apples · October 2019

So, basically run around naked with zero cp light attacking everything...? yes, that's quite the solution.

Not everyone likes raiding, or spending 2+ hours in vdsa or dungeons with pugs.

phaneub17_ESO · October 2019

What they want is "solo" hard content they can run away from if it gets too dicey, dungeons and trials require other players and they can't do the chicken dance in them if the hard they are looking for is too hard for them to deal with. Outdoor bosses for example are the good kind of hard content because if they feel its too difficult, they just leave or move to a safe distance and let someone else do it. More hard outdoor content is basically optional, a challenge they can tackle at a whim or completely avoid if its too much.

idk · October 2019

Such is the life of an MMORPG that is attempting to cater to a larger audience. The open world area for PvE questing is designed to be less challenging to cater to larger audiences. They design different areas of the game with a tiered difficulty to provide challenges for all areas. That is where we get dungeons, vet dungeons. arena and more so those that want a greater challenge.

When it comes to adding a means to provide a greater difficulty in the general questing areas these same major MMORPGs seem to avoid providing the means for a reason. idk what that reason is but I am pretty sure that the shrine or any other means will be added to the game but the reasoning is probably what I already spoke to above.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Still don't understand why players want more challenging content ... when they don't want to do the existing challenging content already in the game.

There are a handful of 37k+ achievement players who have cleared pretty much all the content.

But I'm guessing any forum goer who has posted in this thread is not near that threshhold.

I usually have similar questions on the matter. What is odd is I usually get excuses like how hard it is to form a group or get on a team to do the more challenging content.

Hapexamendios · October 2019

Well I’m max level and I expect to overland quests and such to be easy. If they weren’t, I’d be doing something wrong. Now I want to do more vet dungeons, trials, Malestrom etc.

Respect4Elders · October 2019

No one's making you keep your pants on. Feel free to unequip some armor. Take off that fancy shoulder pad so you dont proc anymore. Stop drinking so much witchmothers and dubious. Craft some chiddy armor to make it more challenging. Those with PTS know that when you load up a new 810 cp character if you don't take time to put on some good stuff you get your butt whipped just as bad.

MisterBigglesworth · October 2019

That's basically Cadwell's Gold in 2014, pre-nerf.
They had that. Barely anyone participated in it and ZOS made it easy to solo.

Shantu · October 2019

Go solo a vet dungeon or run vet vMoL and tell me how easy the game is.

idk · October 2019

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

That's basically Cadwell's Gold in 2014, pre-nerf.
They had that. Barely anyone participated in it and ZOS made it easy to solo.

Plus Craglorn vet zone that was nerfed due to request after request.

wolfie1.0. · October 2019

I have seen max characters who solo dungeons get slaughtered by dragons in NE and SE.. just saying

Malthorne · October 2019

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

That's basically Cadwell's Gold in 2014, pre-nerf.
They had that. Barely anyone participated in it and ZOS made it easy to solo.

This. I did prefer the 2014 pre-nerf difficulty myself but there is no denying that the vet 1-10 zones were dead. During that time the forums were inundated with cries and complaints about the difficulty. ZOS listened and they made the right decision at the time. .

At least on the Daggerfall Covenant side of the equation those zones rarely had any player activity that I noticed from 2014 all way up to One Tamriel. So even after the nerfs the DC vet level zones remained inactive for the most part.

I would like to see the veteran zone difficulty return as an option. Having a little danger in the Overland can be fun for some people.

Cireous · October 2019

I am kind of sad that I never got to experience the veteran versions of overland content. Instead, I spent all that time leveling all 4 classes simultaneously, which took forever. Reading all the dialogue, not missing a quest, objective, boss, or dungeon in each zone. By the time I got a single character to vet levels, vet levels were gone. :'(

I also want optional humorously dangerous overland content.

Do it, guys? Please?

With added companions for us to run around with.

Everstorm · October 2019

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Gross exaggerations aside(realistic new born baby reference), it seems the tools to make the game more challenging are already here. Willfully choosing not to reset your cp is on you.

If I could turn CP off and on with a single click and for free I probably would. But having to pay for it and having to manually redo 810 points when wanting to do more challenging content gets kindda tedious.

I once again see a bunch of people here who are unable to comprehend that people have different tastes. I have been playing TES games for one thing: quest. It's the very foundation of this franchise. Making a game were if you have half a brain you automatically vastly outgrow this quest content in terms of power, even for the newest DLC, is just bad design.
And no, I do not do grouping. I have done 54-72 people raids in Everquest for a decade. Nowadays I like to do stuff quietly, on my own, without drama.

jcm2606 · October 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Still don't understand why players want more challenging content ... when they don't want to do the existing challenging content already in the game.

There are a handful of 37k+ achievement players who have cleared pretty much all the content.

But I'm guessing any forum goer who has posted in this thread is not near that threshhold.

It's not that we don't want to, it's that we've already done them ad nauseam. You can only do the same dozen or so vet dungeons, half dozen or so vet trials, arenas, etc a few times before you're so bored that you want to shoot yourself in the foot just to wake yourself up doing them.

Overland and questing easily makes up the vast majority of the game, and yet they're so god damn easy that they force players to undo their own progression, just to have some semblance of challenge. Compared to, say, GW2 (which is another MMO I've been sinking time into), where end game overland and questing ranges from "okay this is pretty challenging", to "I need a full raid group here to complete this world event".

Sure, that super challenging content can be annoying if you just want to lay back and quest for a bit, but the fact that you still need to have your brain switched on to merely quest in, say, any of the Path of Fire, or especially any of the Heart of Thorns maps, makes it so much better as an end game player. All the while, I'm doing so in a full damage build that's intended for raiding.

ESO won't ever get to that point, I get that. But it can at least make some steps towards that point, to make the experience better for a vet player, while still offering an easy experience for newer players. As I've explained in other threads, IMO, a difficulty setting that makes some stat changes for the player (such as damage done, damage taken, healing received, etc), in tandem with a complete mechanical overhaul of all kinds of mobs (so you're actually punished for not following mechanics), would go a long way.

Under a system like that, vets can turn their difficulty up a tad, and enjoy a questing experience where you don't kill mobs by just sneezing, but at the same time, mobs aren't just damage sponges that stand there and take damage. On the flip side, newer players who find the game a little challenging, since they don't have a proper build together and they don't know how to play, may turn their difficulty down a tad, while still needing to follow mechanics. All of which can be done without affecting other players, and without undoing all of your progression just to have some semblance of fun in the other 70% of the game.

Bryath · October 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

seipher09 wrote: »

The game is simply to easy. 0 challenge at all. World bosses can be soloed...

...by some people. With some builds.

A lot of dungeons can be soloed.

...by some people. With some builds.

That alone means the easy content can be done by a new born baby smacking a keyboard.

I still remember, back right before Summerset came out (before the various nerfs, and while there were also "omg, too easy!" threads), starting a new character in Morrowind and listening to the people in general chat talking about how the overland mobs were killing them, and having other folks chime in to agree.

So....

edit: and as I ask whenever one of these threads pops up - can any of you name me a modern, mainstream MMO where the overland & quest content (as opposed to elite dungeons, raids, and pvp) is any challenge to top-end players? I'm honestly curious.

My 12-16k potato self can solo most world bosses and base game dungeons, overland gives no resistance at all. It's not just the vet trials folks that questing is too easy for, far from it.

Cirantille · October 2019

No.

NO.

and

n O

rpa · October 2019

My casual tankish fake dps can solo some WB (very slowly) and keep attention of some other WB so the other casual not at all tankish fake dps wandering by can kill em assuming they know to not stand in red. Judging from some fights, no its not too easy for casual riffraff.

If I used few hours to make a reasonable build and rotation it would be easy but then game performance would annoy me even more. A WB fight w. 1-2 other players already makes skills, bar swap, block, interrupt and dodge randomly lag or not happen. Why bother.

PCEU

Sarousse · October 2019

Even with 0 champions points and green stuff, it's too easy.

I was so disappointed when during the Dragonhold quest, I had to fight against the champions of the arena.

So sad. No challenge at all. They died like creeps.

jircris11 · October 2019

If you follow a meta build that you didnt make then yes this game can be easy. Try playing something unique that ppl would call suboptimal. I found it fun and challenging.

redlink1979 · October 2019

seipher09 wrote: »

The game is simply to easy. 0 challenge at all. World bosses can be soloed. A lot of dungeons can be soloed.... Please make this game enjoyable for everyone!

Well... You are complaining from the content that's meant to be accessible to anyone: casual player or not...

Have you done the real end game content? If so, how many HM vet trials have you cleared (speed run and no death included)?

Sarousse · October 2019

Well... You are complaining from the content that's meant to be accessible to anyone: casual player or not...

It has become too easy, even for casual, new, stuffless players. My 9 years son has just started the game, and has quitted 3 days after because he was destroying everything and got bored.

We're not asking for release-like veteran difficulty in open world (even I loved it), but just for monsters to hit harder than your self regen.

Kagukan · October 2019

You can make the game as challenging as you wish. Remove all your CP for example. Think outside the box.

Ysbriel · October 2019

Quit saying the overland is easy, ZoS will read it and like a the Djiin from “The Wishmaster” it will grant you your wish but bit in the way you thought

Hanokihs · October 2019

Sarousse wrote: »

Well... You are complaining from the content that's meant to be accessible to anyone: casual player or not...

It has become too easy, even for casual, new, stuffless players. My 9 years son has just started the game, and has quitted 3 days after because he was destroying everything and got bored.

We're not asking for release-like veteran difficulty in open world (even I loved it), but just for monsters to hit harder than your self regen.

Difficulty is subjective. I know players who've been here for years that still struggle with WBs and some quest enemies if nobody else is there to help. I watched a player die twice soloing a dolmen just yesterday (I would've helped, but I didn't wanna ruin their sense of accomplishment, so I just waited and cheer-clapped when they finished).

A toggle would be neat if it was actually possible. Maybe a collectible like daedric wrist shackles or something that, when activated, handicaps your character by making them physically weaker and less magically inclined. A scroll you can read or portal to use at the harborage that switches on a separate hardmode overland instance. (And similarly, I'd like a weaksauce mode for dungeons and trials, allowing teams to use fewer players to complete the content, at the cost of only receiving green loot and blue jewelry).

Hallothiel · October 2019

Bryath wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

seipher09 wrote: »

The game is simply to easy. 0 challenge at all. World bosses can be soloed...

...by some people. With some builds.

A lot of dungeons can be soloed.

...by some people. With some builds.

That alone means the easy content can be done by a new born baby smacking a keyboard.

I still remember, back right before Summerset came out (before the various nerfs, and while there were also "omg, too easy!" threads), starting a new character in Morrowind and listening to the people in general chat talking about how the overland mobs were killing them, and having other folks chime in to agree.

So....

edit: and as I ask whenever one of these threads pops up - can any of you name me a modern, mainstream MMO where the overland & quest content (as opposed to elite dungeons, raids, and pvp) is any challenge to top-end players? I'm honestly curious.

My 12-16k potato self can solo most world bosses and base game dungeons, overland gives no resistance at all. It's not just the vet trials folks that questing is too easy for, far from it.

Really? Truly?
12-16k - what class / armour / cp?

Its just that it gets said A LOT on the forums and yet don’t know many who can.

I know that my main nb would struggle; my warden or sorc or templar would fair better. Tho nb can hold his own in vet trials so not completely useless.

But try without cp - made character on NA server for dragon event and was in no ways as easy as people say.

And started when Vet levels was a thing & Craglorn wasps hit like a truck. Was not really much fun & vet zones were deserted.

Overland is what most players have as their introduction to the game, and so it should reflect that.

This game can’t be all things to all people. So if you want something overland/quest based that is harder, maybe play a different game?