I've investigated why even the "casual players who kill dragons" are considering quitting now.

Demra · October 2019

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've played a sorc as my main for pretty much the past 3 years. I guess I really don't see what's so awful? Through each of the past class changes I've still been able to melt the faces off mobs using essentially the same skills and attacks; Lay down blockade of storms for off balance, lightning flood, and heavy attacks while keeping up surge and boundless storm, and throwing frags whenever they proc. I think the only major changes I've made in the past year or so is switching out armor sets for newer more effective ones, focusing more on increasing max magicka (rather than fixation on purely spell damage), and tweaking champ points.

In pvpland (breaks not withstanding; I'm about 70% PvP/30% PvE) it's been the same. I've made minor adjustments to take advantage of class skill changes, but as a whole I'd say I feel I've just been doing what I do. I haven't really felt much impact at all, and what I have I feel it's been for the better. It's more I've become a smarter pvp'er over time. That has little to do with changes to in game skills.

I dunno, opinions vary of course. I personally like the changes and like the direction ZOS is moving with them. I also don't see people mass quitting, based off what I'm seeing in game it seem like more people are joining. Of course, [sarcastic tone] when Camelot Unchained is (finally) released I'm sure there will be a mass exodus and it will be teh deth of ESOs. [/sarcastic tone] #eyeroll #vaporware #abazillionFPSyeahsure

Mag sorcs were always in a good spot with minor adjustment compare to most.. I think if you would've played stam dk, stamplar, mag nb or some others you would've had more opinions about certain patches. But that's my perspective.

zaria · October 2019

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I agree. These constant changes have a horrible impact on average players that do not have time, resources or willingness to "adapt" every time. I suspect that this approach to balance is what makes the gap between "average" and "elite" bigger and bigger every patch. It's mind-boggling that ZOS combat team fails to see it.
And it's a shame that any new content and QoL changes get completely overshadowed by doom and gloom caused by more random nerfs. ZOS should stop trying to rebalance the game every patch, they should focus on small changes instead, to slightly (!!!) buff underperforming stuff, etc.

Yes, the player who is progressing trough vet dungeons. Suddenly his build don't work anymore.
Note that Morrowind kind of worked out, however Dragonhold I think its named is not Morrowind, later was an huge fan service zone with an new class to level up.
Dragonhold is murkmire with Khajiits. It hold the attention for an week.
And yes we know that happen next: accounting go trough management with the bad news management then goes Darth Wader on the combat team who then buffs everything through the roof to keep their positions.

You are in CoA2, all three all ball on boss and all roll towards the exit, repeat, none respond to chat, emotes, not accepting res. Only option is eject.
CoA2 is probably easier in vet than normal because of this

Jaraal · October 2019

All I need to do is get one hit in on a dragon and let the l33t players do the rest, so there. My Bosmer is worthless as a thief now, but he can sure light attack from range with the best of them!

croninjoshua · October 2019

Not exactly true, you can actually hit 20k+ on a lot of builds, even the ones made to be thematic rather than numerically strong. With this patch it’s definitely harder mostly because of sustain nerfs, but for the most part you can clear a lot of content with that level of dps. And if it balances resources, health, and sustain, you could probably have a decent time solo’ing harder dungeons.[/quote]

What are you talking about? If you try doing veteran dungeons and trails with that kind of dps you are going to end up getting kicked or spend much longer than necessary trying to get past certain parts in dungeons. Sustain wasn't helped at all.Unless you like to spend 30 seconds just dealing with a trash mob, 20k is super low. Might as well just que as a templar healer with spears.

Mettaricana · October 2019

Im in the middle of hardcore softcore player i dont care about achievements much less skins but want to complete bare min vet of everything. As of this entire god forsaken year of the dragons every single shred of fun is gone content keeps getting harder we keep getting weaker with each dlc 10% here 33% there changed from multiplicative to additive lowered base value of this passive nerf passive nerf passive nerf skill knee jerk nerf. This game is through i honestly no longer care about future skills feature classes maps dungeons trials because the game at its core suffers so badly.. i been here since pc beta and honestly beta was probably the most fun had on eso i stopped having fun the day they started any dlc past wrothgar because of how many stupid pointless nerfs and changes they made. Then the lack of transparency from anyone in the dev team telling us why they did it is a joke its like ima nerf this by 500% then not offer the reason why for 2 years when you decide to temporary buff somethif else to balance it out just when we find a lil stability you go and turn the nerf hammer to 11 and destroy anything you get right... im tired and bored there is nothing worth it anymore..

eklhaftb16_ESO · October 2019

I never ever complained about skill changes. Most of my characters still use the same builds I found on the internet back in 2017 or so; half the skills have changed since and I don't even know what they do, because I can't care less; I'm here to relax and unwind, not to study tiny letters in tooltips and do math. As long as things die and I don't, the game works for me.

You know what I *will* complain about, though? Running out of resources in the middle of the fight. It interrupts the flow and directly interferes with my relaxing and unwinding. I came here to enjoy the world, not to struggle with changing game mechanics.

"Adapt"? To what? To rules that keep changing every time someone at ZOS gets out of bed on the wrong side? Can't be arsed, really. I have enough of that in real life.

Somber97866 · October 2019

Tbh you can't make this kinda stuff up. If the OP did then he is the most down to earth nutty person I've ever seen.
My gut ( and what I hear from zone chats ) are in the same line as the OP describes ( at least on console).
OP , I feel ya! And your right. It's going to go back to the days of ppl being kicked from random dailies bc they aren't pulling enough Deeps ,or not being able to sustain properly ,to complete the content.
Dark days for the average Joe ahead. In my opinion at least.

Commancho · October 2019

Everything has been nerfed except most overpowered DLC sets...
Because everyone knows that liqud lightning was so much gamebreaking!

What a coincidence! Next in the order to nerf - healing, CPs - remember my words!

Somber97866 · October 2019

Yeah right! All passives and cp nerf is coming soon, haha.

Lord-Otto · October 2019

Interesting read. Explains why ESO is so unpopular. Twitch numbers are really lacking, too.

Vahrokh · October 2019

Somber97866 wrote: »

Tbh you can't make this kinda stuff up. If the OP did then he is the most down to earth nutty person I've ever seen.
My gut ( and what I hear from zone chats ) are in the same line as the OP describes ( at least on console).
OP , I feel ya! And your right. It's going to go back to the days of ppl being kicked from random dailies bc they aren't pulling enough Deeps ,or not being able to sustain properly ,to complete the content.
Dark days for the average Joe ahead. In my opinion at least.

Sadly I did not make stuff up. I say "sadly", because to be honest I am beyond caring about an AoE being nerfed (even a class defining one) or having to buy / grind some pieces of gear. ZOS has teached us this is just going to happen.

What is really breaking the camel's back is this "Morrowind 2 - the return", where sustain has been emasculated again.

This directly hits medium and low "status" players the most.

Sure, I can still do my trials. I have absurd amounts of gold and access to latest trial perfected gear:

so why should I care?

Well, first of all I am still "old school" (and fairly old IRL) so I don't feel good leaving the others behind.
But even being a selfish prat, I really care that since Scalebreaker there's been a persistent loss of players, to the point we have to cancel trials or do the "easy version" because not enough new players join any more (and the old ones slowly quit).

We end up like today, where we had people from other guilds joining our trial. It's not the same. They cannot be as effective as people who raid with us since months.

And even these guys, who are still good enough to join a trial from another guild (they are not randoms), are not so happy about this patch:

And here are some random people about this patch. Sadly I had few minutes to record them. Then we got 700ms ping in our trial, attempted to restart in a new instance and we had people disconnect and being unable to log back. Me included, after I got stuck in endless loading screen (yay they are back!) and could not play again.

LadyNalcarya · October 2019

I'll just leave it here...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/498638/what-the-hell-is-up-with-dps

Jhalin · October 2019

mayasunrising wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

and if you read the forum and try to at least somewhat optimizing you will end up running around like everyone other doing that - same skills, same build, same gear

so either you can be non functional or the same as everyone...zos basically managed to create the worst possible outcome with regards to builds, skills, gear variety...congratulations

Not exactly true, you can actually hit 20k+ on a lot of builds, even the ones made to be thematic rather than numerically strong. With this patch it’s definitely harder mostly because of sustain nerfs, but for the most part you can clear a lot of content with that level of dps. And if it balances resources, health, and sustain, you could probably have a decent time solo’ing harder dungeons.

I agree but would also say that sustain wise I don't see to be experiencing any issues. As a matter of fact until I read the bit about sustain nerfs I didn't even know they did any. I guess because heavy attacks are just part of my rotation? I rarely run out of magicka and if I do it's usually because I'll respec as a healer to help friends in dungeons. So, that's more a matter of me just butchering my skillset temporarily but being too lazy to rework champ points. :P

It depends on your class, as some had ground AoEs cost increased by 60%. Thankfully the durations were at least slightly extended so you only feel it hard if you end up with a tank that doesn’t know the meaning of standing still

Jhalin · October 2019

croninjoshua wrote: »

Not exactly true, you can actually hit 20k+ on a lot of builds, even the ones made to be thematic rather than numerically strong. With this patch it’s definitely harder mostly because of sustain nerfs, but for the most part you can clear a lot of content with that level of dps. And if it balances resources, health, and sustain, you could probably have a decent time solo’ing harder dungeons.

What are you talking about? If you try doing veteran dungeons and trials with that kind of dps you are going to end up getting kicked or spend much longer than necessary trying to get past certain parts in dungeons. Sustain wasn't helped at all.Unless you like to spend 30 seconds just dealing with a trash mob, 20k is super low. Might as well just que as a templar healer with spears.

I didn’t say 20k is “good” dps, but it is actually sufficient for the majority of older content (I assume you do realize vMoL was cleared in the days of 30k dps being considered godly), provided you aren’t attempting to ignore mechanics. I promise you the people who are solo’ing vet DLC dungeons aren’t doing it with a glass cannon 50k dps setup.

JanTanhide · October 2019

Been in game five years and this patch has done a lot of damage to the Player base in my opinion. So many in the guilds I am in just don't play anymore.

I too am playing ESO very little now and playing other games with most of my time now spent in No Man's Sky.

Just sick of all the Yo-Yo nerfs and buffs and changing skills.

Good luck everyone.

LadyNalcarya · October 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

croninjoshua wrote: »

Not exactly true, you can actually hit 20k+ on a lot of builds, even the ones made to be thematic rather than numerically strong. With this patch it’s definitely harder mostly because of sustain nerfs, but for the most part you can clear a lot of content with that level of dps. And if it balances resources, health, and sustain, you could probably have a decent time solo’ing harder dungeons.

What are you talking about? If you try doing veteran dungeons and trials with that kind of dps you are going to end up getting kicked or spend much longer than necessary trying to get past certain parts in dungeons. Sustain wasn't helped at all.Unless you like to spend 30 seconds just dealing with a trash mob, 20k is super low. Might as well just que as a templar healer with spears.

I didn’t say 20k is “good” dps, but it is actually sufficient for the majority of older content (I assume you do realize vMoL was cleared in the days of 30k dps being considered godly), provided you aren’t attempting to ignore mechanics. I promise you the people who are solo’ing vet DLC dungeons aren’t doing it with a glass cannon 50k dps setup.

I often see this argument, but actually it's not 100% true. I mean, 30k was goldlike at some point, but back then it required the same level of skill as 80+k nowadays. So a 30k dd in the current patch does not actually possess the same level of skill as people who cleared vMoL in 2016.
After all, getting dps number is not enough to be a good player. There's also things like situational awareness, being a team player etc.

srfrogg23 · October 2019

Sorry OP, not buying it. People have been getting kicked since way before the DoT nerfs. I think it's kind of lame, but I don't think it will be a "mass exodus of players" level of lame. It's a nerf across the board. Most people probably won't even notice for a few weeks.

JumpmanLane · October 2019

And they haven’t done their CP pass yet...more doom on the horizon...

buttaface · October 2019

Great thread for flushing out the ZOS affiliates and FB friendsnfamily in disguise here, kudos OP. Very smooth, though I doubt that was your intent.

But I haven't seen evidence of newer or casual Skyrim type players getting annoyed yet personally. ESO is a really great game for the $20 it costs for a few months, maybe one of the best ever, and most gamers don't play games longer than that these days I find. They piddle around from game to game, and must admit, that's probably a healthier way to do these games than lots of the rest of us play them.

The problems come in its trying to shape itself into something it's not and will never be, some kind of top end competitive Esports type game. Ain't happening. And I think the mistaken efforts to somehow convert it into that explain most of the paint shaker that intermediate players are annoyed by.

mongoLC · October 2019

Its time someone paid with their job for these stupid changes.

Ysbriel · October 2019

LuxLunae wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I've played the game and read my 5 guilds chats. 3 of them are for trading, 1 is a social PvE guild, one is "dedicated" PvE.

Well, for the first time I have seen "randoms" (those that the balance devs consider spending their happy time randomly killing dragons and stuff) complaining so much.
Usually, you see "activist" forum posters, PvPers, Youtubers and similar to complain about nerfs and similar.

Average Random Joes do not read the forums, do not read the ESO blog, do not watch videos. They just login, queue for some normal and vet keys and so on.
Well, for the first time even Random Joes are frustrated. Especially magicka players.
Now their class is just non functional any more. It's not enough to flip a couple of skills, re - re - re - re - re "adapt" the 1000th gear set and rotation.

This time basic gameplay blocks have just ceased to function. In my personal case I have used liquid lightning (or splash) since beta. It's even a more foundation class identiy skill than crystal fragments. And... voilà... it's gone. Fi-ni-shed. If you are so stupid to still use it, you are just a waste, you really want to place <generic faceless skill xyz> in its place.
But it's not just that. For the first time in 5 years I had to trash everything (including Maelstrom weapon) and grind a fire set. Because either you go all out NO AoE NO Dot fire spec, or you are just a piece of unmitigated garbage to your team. It's a 180° gameplay change enforced on you.

Sustain? Even worse. I completely hate fire specs, I adapted to heavy attack builds long ago. But now, even an heavy attack at every rotation is not enough any more!

This is not just "felt" by me. I actually run trials 80% of the time, so I am going to use potions, foods and have full healers support on that.

But this weighs heavily on those who do not run trials like me. The Random Jones. Until yesterday they could solo some stuff, now they ceased to.
2 rotations and they are out of magicka and die. Are people meant to buy tripots, golden food and maybe have an healbot follow them to just do random stuff outside of a trial?

The sustain nerf has been way too harsh.

"But you can slot regen enchants blah blah blah". Hell yeah! If only everybody had to. But no, classes that were already prevalent at top DPS, mainly stamina based, don't need any sacrifice. They parsed 100k 2 days ago and they'll parse top DPS tomorrow.
The others, who were behind to begin with (despite having to use melee Zaan set and sit at melee range to get healers buffs), now will be even more behind.

But this matters little to Random Joe.

What matters Random Joe is that now he gets kicked out of veteran dungeons (especially DLC) because now he just passed the thresold between "he's average but OK enough" and "no way, his DPS is way too low".

Actually, this whole post has been created because I precisely read on guild chat of a couple of guys experiencing exactly this.

Random Joe does not have the time or money to always get "no compromise" gold food, so he goes purple and his health (regen food) is too low now.

Meanwhile, the rich raider, goes all out golded, has full healers support everywhere and his DPS is still vastly enough to finish any kind of content (bar vSS timed run).

ZOS has landed low blows to a lot of people in the last 2 years, but this time they are hard hitting the majority, not just the "min-maxers-who-cry-at-losing-100-DPS".

It's like they have two teams:
content production developers, constantly working hard to deliver better and more gorgeous looking new regions, quests etc.

game balance developers, paid to discourage everyone, to remove fun (who finds fun to double heavy attack at each rotation?), remove class identity, remove flavour.

It's absurd.

screens or it didn't happen...it all is a product or your mind...random casual players... random joe...

The fact you call em random joes.. make me think this is a product of your mind... your dislike... not a general base...

Screen or it didn’t happen? i wonder if he had posted a screen the counter argument would be? that was obviously a staged chat? why the whole attempt delegitimize him? it’s not like it’s an elephant in the room situation. are you also one of those ZOS loyalists that immediately come around telling people everything is all right and better, spend more money? because i know about 200 people who are not happy at all with all the changes and the whole ending to a chapter being sold separate as DLC . they just so happen to be Spanish speakers and don’t come here to post.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · October 2019

It's certainly unprofessional and bad business to be implementing such sweeping changes so frequently. The combat team in particular needs additional people involved that can vet ideas before implementation; people that have a larger picture of how an ability works in a real combat scenario, not just numbers & formulas.

I was already annoyed with some of these changes when I came across a no name NPC in the new DLC area that was using Bruce Lee moves on me. It seems while actual players get bird dung dumped on them, the NPCs get the fun stuff. Great stuff ZOS.

thorwyn · October 2019

This "patch hits average player more than pro's" is an overused narrative these days. I say narrative not because it is wrong, but because it is used as some sort of one-size-fits-all argument that the combat team has done a bad job. However, identifying a symptom is not the end of the therapy, it's the beginning! So instead of talking about "random Joe's" who are quitting the game, how about coming up with possible solutions?

It is the general consensus that there was too much damage in the game, enabling the people to skip game mechanics, making healer classes redundant and all that stuff. That's the status quo (the situation, not the rock band for those of you who're old enough to remember

). Whatever you do to address this problem, you will always "splash damage" those people who are not the ones causing the problem. And the top people will alwyas adapt a lot faster and easier because they have the time to do so. It's impossible to fix free time. Whatever you do to address this problem, there will always be a group of "random Joe's", who are caught in the segment between casual players and top players and who are getting set back a few steps in their progression.

The usual reply here is "but all those pendulum swings and lack of general direction" etc. And yes, that's partly true. I really don't like the current state, I am tired of all these 180 degree meta changes as well. But I fail to see a solution for the overall situation and try to adapt until I reach a point where it's getting too boring. If people want to quit for whatever reason, let them go.

RouDeR · October 2019

Is this a GiT GuT thread or a Nerf Sorc ? I don't get it..

amir412 · October 2019

If youre casual and not willing to progress and learn, that's your own freaking problem.

BlueRaven · October 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

This "patch hits average player more than pro's" is an overused narrative these days. I say narrative not because it is wrong, but because it is used as some sort of one-size-fits-all argument that the combat team has done a bad job. However, identifying a symptom is not the end of the therapy, it's the beginning! So instead of talking about "random Joe's" who are quitting the game, how about coming up with possible solutions?

It is the general consensus that there was too much damage in the game, enabling the people to skip game mechanics, making healer classes redundant and all that stuff. That's the status quo (the situation, not the rock band for those of you who're old enough to remember ). Whatever you do to address this problem, you will always "splash damage" those people who are not the ones causing the problem. And the top people will alwyas adapt a lot faster and easier because they have the time to do so. It's impossible to fix free time. Whatever you do to address this problem, there will always be a group of "random Joe's", who are caught in the segment between casual players and top players and who are getting set back a few steps in their progression.

The usual reply here is "but all those pendulum swings and lack of general direction" etc. And yes, that's partly true. I really don't like the current state, I am tired of all these 180 degree meta changes as well. But I fail to see a solution for the overall situation and try to adapt until I reach a point where it's getting too boring. If people want to quit for whatever reason, let them go.

If Zos wanted to nerf top end players without affecting the common player, the obvious answer is, well, obvious.

If someone can think of a better way of curbing high end dps without affecting the common player, please share.

Mathius_Mordred · October 2019

LuxLunae wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I've played the game and read my 5 guilds chats. 3 of them are for trading, 1 is a social PvE guild, one is "dedicated" PvE.

Well, for the first time I have seen "randoms" (those that the balance devs consider spending their happy time randomly killing dragons and stuff) complaining so much.
Usually, you see "activist" forum posters, PvPers, Youtubers and similar to complain about nerfs and similar.

Average Random Joes do not read the forums, do not read the ESO blog, do not watch videos. They just login, queue for some normal and vet keys and so on.
Well, for the first time even Random Joes are frustrated. Especially magicka players.
Now their class is just non functional any more. It's not enough to flip a couple of skills, re - re - re - re - re "adapt" the 1000th gear set and rotation.

This time basic gameplay blocks have just ceased to function. In my personal case I have used liquid lightning (or splash) since beta. It's even a more foundation class identiy skill than crystal fragments. And... voilà... it's gone. Fi-ni-shed. If you are so stupid to still use it, you are just a waste, you really want to place <generic faceless skill xyz> in its place.
But it's not just that. For the first time in 5 years I had to trash everything (including Maelstrom weapon) and grind a fire set. Because either you go all out NO AoE NO Dot fire spec, or you are just a piece of unmitigated garbage to your team. It's a 180° gameplay change enforced on you.

Sustain? Even worse. I completely hate fire specs, I adapted to heavy attack builds long ago. But now, even an heavy attack at every rotation is not enough any more!

This is not just "felt" by me. I actually run trials 80% of the time, so I am going to use potions, foods and have full healers support on that.

But this weighs heavily on those who do not run trials like me. The Random Jones. Until yesterday they could solo some stuff, now they ceased to.
2 rotations and they are out of magicka and die. Are people meant to buy tripots, golden food and maybe have an healbot follow them to just do random stuff outside of a trial?

The sustain nerf has been way too harsh.

"But you can slot regen enchants blah blah blah". Hell yeah! If only everybody had to. But no, classes that were already prevalent at top DPS, mainly stamina based, don't need any sacrifice. They parsed 100k 2 days ago and they'll parse top DPS tomorrow.
The others, who were behind to begin with (despite having to use melee Zaan set and sit at melee range to get healers buffs), now will be even more behind.

But this matters little to Random Joe.

What matters Random Joe is that now he gets kicked out of veteran dungeons (especially DLC) because now he just passed the thresold between "he's average but OK enough" and "no way, his DPS is way too low".

Actually, this whole post has been created because I precisely read on guild chat of a couple of guys experiencing exactly this.

Random Joe does not have the time or money to always get "no compromise" gold food, so he goes purple and his health (regen food) is too low now.

Meanwhile, the rich raider, goes all out golded, has full healers support everywhere and his DPS is still vastly enough to finish any kind of content (bar vSS timed run).

ZOS has landed low blows to a lot of people in the last 2 years, but this time they are hard hitting the majority, not just the "min-maxers-who-cry-at-losing-100-DPS".

It's like they have two teams:
content production developers, constantly working hard to deliver better and more gorgeous looking new regions, quests etc.

game balance developers, paid to discourage everyone, to remove fun (who finds fun to double heavy attack at each rotation?), remove class identity, remove flavour.

It's absurd.

screens or it didn't happen...it all is a product or your mind...random casual players... random joe...

The fact you call em random joes.. make me think this is a product of your mind... your dislike... not a general base...

It seems you are able to read ok, so go read the patch notes, anyone with a brain and the most trivial understanding of ESO mechanics can see that this is the nerf of all nerfs.

It's also the constant swinging meta pendulum, you know what this isn't even meta, it's basic gameplay skills that are being torn up and thrown out of the window on every other patch, and in the intervening patch they buff something stupidly only to nerf it again a few weeks later.

The game is being run by people who clearly haven't got a clue what they are doing. You don't make wild swings in damage abilities every three months in a game that's been established for 5 years, this is the kind of BS we would expect to see in a game that's still in Beta. I don't need his screenshots, I can verify that our guild members too, the average Joes, are stating the exact same thing.

kargen27 · October 2019

I didn't see any evidence of an investigation. Maybe an anecdote or two.

JinMori · October 2019

The fact is that slow rotations in what is essentially a fast pased game does not feel good.

Having to drop damage for sustain does not feel good, end of story.

Cloudless · October 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

This "patch hits average player more than pro's" is an overused narrative these days. I say narrative not because it is wrong, but because it is used as some sort of one-size-fits-all argument that the combat team has done a bad job. However, identifying a symptom is not the end of the therapy, it's the beginning! So instead of talking about "random Joe's" who are quitting the game, how about coming up with possible solutions?

It is the general consensus that there was too much damage in the game, enabling the people to skip game mechanics, making healer classes redundant and all that stuff. That's the status quo (the situation, not the rock band for those of you who're old enough to remember ). Whatever you do to address this problem, you will always "splash damage" those people who are not the ones causing the problem. And the top people will alwyas adapt a lot faster and easier because they have the time to do so. It's impossible to fix free time. Whatever you do to address this problem, there will always be a group of "random Joe's", who are caught in the segment between casual players and top players and who are getting set back a few steps in their progression.

The usual reply here is "but all those pendulum swings and lack of general direction" etc. And yes, that's partly true. I really don't like the current state, I am tired of all these 180 degree meta changes as well. But I fail to see a solution for the overall situation and try to adapt until I reach a point where it's getting too boring. If people want to quit for whatever reason, let them go.

If Zos wanted to nerf top end players without affecting the common player, the obvious answer is, well, obvious.

If someone can think of a better way of curbing high end dps without affecting the common player, please share.

Fix animation canceling?