ZOS, nobody wants to play a TURD for years while you "figure it out"

Jeremy · October 2019

Wing wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

and recent events have thrown into very clear view that you cannot even fall back on "we need to test it on live server" buffing dots by 50%+ then next patch going "oh crap!" and throwing the lever the other way by 60%+ to the point that they just don't function proves that your not testing this internally.

and we get promises of "hey don't worry will get it all figured out in a couple years, just play till then" . . .

um, no.

how about you spend some time internally and just figure it out there and then we get a SINGLE patch that is the big class overhaul, you bring it to the PTS, ACTUALLY USE THE FEEDBACK from the PTS, and we get a full view of:

-oh okay so the DK heals with group bubbles and has strong dots but no execute and is focused more on a close range aoe playstyle and is resistant to ranged damage got it.

-oh so templar is focused on direct healing and channeled damage and is not very mobile but can strike out over great distance

-etc.

this mentality of "hey you suck now, and will for the foreseeable future, but stick around and in about a year you might have some fun, unless we get caught up on this +/- 100% lever again, that things kind of tricky, it just wants to fling itself all over the place LOL. . .oh, there it goes again, looks like direct damage spamables just got a 100% buff, crazy!"

no

quit it

finish the classes in house, show us on the pts, use the feedback, come back and show us, reiterate till we all like it. de couple balance and DLC updates, the two don't have to be hand in hand.

its not as hard as your making it on yourself (and on us with your boobery)

Did direct damage "spamables" actually just get a 100% damage increase or was you exaggerating to make a point?

KappaKid83 · October 2019

Wing wrote: »

KappaKid83 wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly here. Hit the reset button, start from the bottom up and go from there. Unfortunately the business model is quarterly DLC with yearly chapters and the money speaks to them so they will not change in the short term. Maybe in the long term but at what cost? At that point a lot of us will be onto something else and not around to see the improvements and then maybe the server actually does die and the game goes extinct(highly unlikely I know but still could be worst case scenario)

quarterly DLC and balance changes don't have to go hand in hand (nor should they)

because they have tied the two together a lot of the time DLC is overshadowed by complaints of whatever mechanic they have screwed up that update.

all of shacklebreaker NOBODY was talking about the content, they were talking about dots, and that balance change cast the entire DLC in a negative light.

if ZOS adopted the mentality of constant incremental patches, or used the PTS to test them. or if they were going to do something big, once again use the PTS and iterate on it for as long as is necessary with community feedback then launch when its ready, we would probably not have this issue.

however they do these big changes, and than only have the DLC launch point as a window, they CANNOT iterate or respond correctly to feedback because they have chosen to box themselves into tiny windows.

so instead of good changes, or little adjustments we literally get text that is:

"we will continue working on this ability’s visual and gameplay elements for a future update"

so its not done, not finished, but F it no time, launch it.

I agree with you here, and I also agreed with your original post. I have been really outspoken on the how bad ESO has been for a while so nothing you are saying am I going to disagree with. What I was trying to get across was that unless we the player base start taking our money elsewhere ZOS will keep pounding quarterly DLC and yearly chapters. We don't need that stuff, we need tangible changes to performance and gameplay. The community within these forums speaks out against some of these really stupid changes(dot buff/nerf, stonefist/poo fling thing) but they seem to fall on deaf ears and a team who is choosing to do things their way without listening. We as a player base deserve better than what we are getting and I would love to see a shakeup in the team from the top down, hell starting at the top.

jaklang · October 2019

ZOS nerf my account, i can't play in cyrodiil anymore. Each time im in cyrodiil i get massive lags. And everytime i get kicked out of server... i tried changing DNS, doesn't help, power cycling doesn't help tooo. I cant do any PVP now. Thank you ZOS

Veinblood1965 · October 2019

DK tanks using Staves, that was the last straw for me. They CAN use them but it should not be a preferred method, they are WARRIORS for crying out loud.

xaraan · October 2019

Balancing the game isn't easy, but zos seems to find ways to make it a lot harder than it needs to be.

CleymenZero · October 2019

Don't know if it's been said but, if you want to get creative in the punishment system without having to constantly rely on one-shot mechanics, just make it that your progression is heavily delayed if you ignore mechanics or ignore incoming damage.

You could be pushed off a platform and have to make your way back. You could get teleported away, the boss could teleport at the furthest end of the combat zone if you effectively eliminating your AOE dots. All that because you didn't follow the mechanics and tried to stack and burn.

That could take a significant amount of time to come back from that situation so instead of rigging the system so you make the no death achievement difficult to attain, why not introduce delay mechanisms in order to make the speed run achievement difficult to attain if you don't follow mechanics?

Bottom-line is we want to play ESO not Dark Souls.

Austinseph1 · October 2019

I’m sure most of the community has lost faith in the combat team by now, most of the people who stay were RPing anyway. People making content for this game can’t even get good views because nobody really cares anymore. Kevduit was the coolest content creator and he moved on to fallout 76... if that isn’t the worst kick in the butt in the world I don’t know what is. Even dottz has said he is going to be covering other games, can’t really blame him.

Moonsorrow · October 2019

Big problem for the audit of classes and skills in my opinion has been that they have not done them all at once in a complete package.

Problems come when do just like "okay we are now focusing on these 1-3 classes, and others will be done in future.." and when that happens it is 100% gonna create even stronger FOTM classes for both pvp and pvp.

And then comes the nerf demands, when people not know they got equally strong skills/changes coming to other classes too, but planned to go out next year. So by then, the strong skills been nerfed already, and new strong skills come out, and they then have nerf demands because balance is again poor between classes.

And when weapon/world/guild skill lines get adjustments, then the strongest class with best kit to use those with their class passives and sustain gimmicks become pretty much permanent FOTM because you build and play that class with universal skills better than others.

Power fantasy, identity, being viable but maybe not optimal. All sounds good, but stability is what we players want now. If something is not broken (like we been having fun playing before all the back and forth big changes, if performance would just get fixed) no need to "fix" it, and if there is a vision change, then please:

.. do it all at once, all classes and skills in a chapter update so things feel fresh, or atleast people needs to act all dramatic only once a year. Thank you!

Odovacar · October 2019

Frustrations are real OP...so is a therapeutic break away. I think it's beneficial for us all to take a step back from time to time, imo.

Wing · October 2019

Odovacar wrote: »

Frustrations are real OP...so is a therapeutic break away. I think it's beneficial for us all to take a step back from time to time, imo.

its funny im actually not angry and really don't get very emotional at all, I tend to eat anger because anger just compounds on itself and creates feedback loops so its best to just let it go.

that said my posts about mechanics and the devs being dumb do come across as hecka angry. I do casually swear a lot in real life but we tend to use it in casual conversation and don't really mean anything by it.

maybe if I unclude more smile emoji's?

Tandor · October 2019

Austinseph1 wrote: »

I’m sure most of the community has lost faith in the combat team by now, most of the people who stay were RPing anyway. People making content for this game can’t even get good views because nobody really cares anymore. Kevduit was the coolest content creator and he moved on to fallout 76... if that isn’t the worst kick in the butt in the world I don’t know what is. Even dottz has said he is going to be covering other games, can’t really blame him.

That is just so wrong...

There are as few role-players in ESO as there are obsessive elitists. By far and away most of the community are just playing the game, and doing so perfectly happily.

Austinseph1 · October 2019

Tandor wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

I’m sure most of the community has lost faith in the combat team by now, most of the people who stay were RPing anyway. People making content for this game can’t even get good views because nobody really cares anymore. Kevduit was the coolest content creator and he moved on to fallout 76... if that isn’t the worst kick in the butt in the world I don’t know what is. Even dottz has said he is going to be covering other games, can’t really blame him.

That is just so wrong...

There are as few role-players in ESO as there are obsessive elitists. By far and away most of the community are just playing the game, and doing so perfectly happily.

The game has gone from horizontal progression to now backwards progression, who is going to feel good about content players can no longer clear because they are doing 20% less damage with many skills doubled the cost, back stepping your characters will feel like a big letdown. When the patch goes live it’s not going to be a good experience. How can you be perfectly happy with combat being returned to beta stages 5 years into a game. It’s disrespectful to the playerbase and the people trying to build content around it. People spent years building up their content channels and have gone from view counts of 50k+ to maybe 2-3k because so much of the crowd has been pushed away by the new teams inexperience. 5k mag for a wall of elements 1k tooltip.. who comes up with this stuff

Moloch1514 · October 2019

Tandor wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

I’m sure most of the community has lost faith in the combat team by now, most of the people who stay were RPing anyway. People making content for this game can’t even get good views because nobody really cares anymore. Kevduit was the coolest content creator and he moved on to fallout 76... if that isn’t the worst kick in the butt in the world I don’t know what is. Even dottz has said he is going to be covering other games, can’t really blame him.

That is just so wrong...

There are as few role-players in ESO as there are obsessive elitists. By far and away most of the community are just playing the game, and doing so perfectly happily.

Which is the problem, IMO. If most of the community is just "logging in to kill a dragon" as @ZOS_Gilliam said on ESO Live, then by his implication, the combat devs don't think most folks care about this stuff.

Posts like that help them reaffirm that no one is that upset, since we can still quest and kill dragons with our brooms and buckets.

khajiitNPC · October 2019

You made a lot of good points — but they are extremely hyperbolic. People have been and will continue to play this “turd” of a game. Remember nerfmire? One Tamriel? Nerf to sustains. People lost their mind, specifically forum posters, which is a minuscule (and I do mean minuscule) data pool of the population. Again good points but off base. Most of us who have played since beta will continue to play. We’ll just adapt. Many of us are old school MMO players so we know there will be constant change. About the only thing I agree with here, is that they should really listen more to those testing on PTS.

But I disagree with the assumption no one is doing internal testing. Completely ludicrous and presumptuous. Also I would go as far as to say were it not for the previous dev team we wouldn’t be getting such heavy handed changes.

Unfortunately, a thing to consider, is that you can have as much internal and PTS testing until you’re blue in the face — but it never compensates for what can happen on live servers.

I think those who are frustrated the most are the people who have never hit the big numbers. Who have a difficulty pressing buttons. Who don’t understand the mechanics of the game.

Remember when the qualifications for VMoL was between 25k-30k? Now people are demanding higher dps for a quick burn. Anyhow I’m sure people will disagree with me and call me a white knight or whatever. I’m still enjoying the game! Love most of the changes so far.

P.S. Get rid of cast times on offensive ults or make all offensive ults have a cast time.

Lumenn · October 2019

I've said it in another thread but I believe they are just throwing ANYTHING out there testing "balance" for another game. No one is that...(let's be nice and say "unaware "
) unaware that 180 buffs/nerfs from update to update, or total random nerfs at times, doesn't make sense. While I FIRMLY believe people will never cease to prove their.....(i WON'T say IQ level, how about inability to understand cause and effect? Reasoning skills? Common sense? Pick a nice phrase) we have a team of people being paid, with access to not just closed room ideas, but our feedback as well. ESO isn't dead, but we're just research to see what will/won't work for another MMO. Just my opinion though.

Kalante · October 2019

oh but the loss of players in steam charts for the past 5 months is just people "migrating" to another launcher because steam is "broken". Yea broken for 5 months which coincidentally happened to be during the worst patches in eso history. The loss of people's interest has nothing to do with the fact that this patch scalebreaker was complete hot garbage. Next patch doesn't give out any hopes either.

Wing · October 2019

Kalante wrote: »

oh but the loss of players in steam charts for the past 5 months is just people "migrating" to another launcher because steam is "broken". Yea broken for 5 months which coincidentally happened to be during the worst patches in eso history. The loss of people's interest has nothing to do with the fact that this patch scalebreaker was complete hot garbage. Next patch doesn't give out any hopes either.

the content has been *okay* but the balance changes have been crap. im actually thinking this will lead to some changes as the combat team is now effecting their bottom line.

Jaraal · October 2019

Austinseph1 wrote: »

The game has gone from horizontal progression to now backwards progression, who is going to feel good about content players can no longer clear because they are doing 20% less damage with many skills doubled the cost, back stepping your characters will feel like a big letdown. When the patch goes live it’s not going to be a good experience. How can you be perfectly happy with combat being returned to beta stages 5 years into a game. It’s disrespectful to the playerbase and the people trying to build content around it.

Exactly!

A couple of years ago, we were looking forward to the CP cap being raised again, so we could get stronger and meet the challenge of the more difficult DLC content being offered. Today, they want to release harder content, with not only zero progression for our characters, but rather a huge nerf in ability across the board for all classes and werewolves.

Who actually thought that players would enjoy getting weaker and less able as they play? Show me one other video game where your character "loses" levels and gets weaker as he/she goes along? Is anybody really surprised that players are leaving in droves?

Rave the Histborn · October 2019

Jaraal wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

The game has gone from horizontal progression to now backwards progression, who is going to feel good about content players can no longer clear because they are doing 20% less damage with many skills doubled the cost, back stepping your characters will feel like a big letdown. When the patch goes live it’s not going to be a good experience. How can you be perfectly happy with combat being returned to beta stages 5 years into a game. It’s disrespectful to the playerbase and the people trying to build content around it.

Exactly!

A couple of years ago, we were looking forward to the CP cap being raised again, so we could get stronger and meet the challenge of the more difficult DLC content being offered. Today, they want to release harder content, with not only zero progression for our characters, but rather a huge nerf in ability across the board for all classes and werewolves.

Who actually thought that players would enjoy getting weaker and less able as they play? Show me one other video game where your character "loses" levels and gets weaker as he/she goes along? Is anybody really surprised that players are leaving in droves?

Players are getting weaker because the damage output of players is already insane enough. You dont keep progressing your characters when they are already over progressed.

Show me another game where the player base just absolutely blows through the content as fast as it does in ESO. Show me another game where entire combat phases are just skipped entirely.

You don't lose levels in ESO either, before you post in hysterics understand the definition of balance. The lower your level means the more you're scaled, you don't lose anything st all. In reality they're boosts you shouldn't even have to begin with.

Gnortranermara · October 2019

We're never going to see a professional, polished product again because the combat dev team has the competence of a typical amateur modder. This is a five year old game seeing wild >60% changes. Adjustments of this magnitude, this long after beta, are a sign that it's time to move on to something else.

Rave the Histborn · October 2019

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

We're never going to see a professional, polished product again because the combat dev team has the competence of a typical amateur modder. This is a five year old game seeing wild >60% changes. Adjustments of this magnitude, this long after beta, are a sign that it's time to move on to something else.

The changes aren't 60% they were only in the pts and because changing it 1% isnt going to give you helpful data. I agree though, if you can't deal with adjustments of a minimal magnitude then it is time to move on.

Jaraal · October 2019

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The changes aren't 60% they were only in the pts and because changing it 1% isnt going to give you helpful data. I agree though, if you can't deal with adjustments of a minimal magnitude then it is time to move on.

The nerfs to werewolves since Wolfhunter (especially the Pack Leader morph) are easily a 60% loss, when you combine the total damage lost with the insane cost increases of the skills.