can we have less layers in cities?

Kagukan · October 2019

Hmmm. I rarely see the popular cities without tons of players. The game feels very much alive to me.

redlink1979 · October 2019

DeathPK wrote: »

For PC NA at least whenever i'm in major cities like deshan there are 6-10 people in the main area next to the guild trader and cities just look dead. eso isn't as popular as it was so remove some of the layers.

I don't know how long you are playing but the active population depends on: time of day, day of the week, game instance and if there's an event or not.

Also during events the majority of players moves to the region where the event is taking place.

SeaGtGruff · October 2019

I thought maybe it was a typo, that a letter got left out:

can we have less players in cities?

Or maybe

can we have less lawyers in cities?

Tiff_ar15 · October 2019

Tbh I had no idea there were different instances/layers until the dragon rise event. First time I realized it... I fought a dragon, game froze, I got kicked. When I re-logged less than a minute later... I was back to a new dragon with new players.

zaria · October 2019

susmitds wrote: »

It is intentional. In cities that are closely stacked structurally like Rawlkha or Vivec City, most shards can get super crowded during prime times.

Yes, its an issue with potato pc's during prime time, events are obviously much worse.
Rawl'kha got more shards two years ago because of this.

I assume ESO can not remove shards easy, it would require all to leave so some players hanging around would be very lonely if they hang around in an zone.

Veinblood1965 · October 2019

Watch out for the bears, they are feeding right now before they hibernate in their layers.

D0PAMINE · October 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Layers are people who Lay things for a living.

Doesn’t pay much, but it’s honest work.

Hell yeah

peacenote · October 2019

Possibly related to this discussion--

I too had been getting very frustrated when I was repeatedly not ending up in the same shard/layer/channel as my grouped friends. Had nothing to do with this event. I figured out (I think) what was occurring, although feel free to tell me if my guess was wrong!

Situation: I group up with two friends for a dungeon. Use Dungeon Finder, find a fourth. Dungeon is over. Those of us that know each other stay grouped and travel back to our home city (usually Mournhold) to empty bags. There we further trade gear from the dungeon or other items. Except, although we were grouped we could not see each other. Happened. Every. Time.

The issue was that I was leveraging the "travel to player" feature to bypass travel fees. I frequently do this. If I want Mournhold, I choose a guild mate in Deshaan and cross my fingers. (If I'm unlucky, traveling within the zone map is pretty fast and then free.) However, when you travel TO someone, the game thinks you are traveling to interact with them, and you go to their shard. This overrides the grouping priority, so if your group members are traveling to others simultaneously in the same zone, for expediency (instead of having one person travel and then everyone travels to them), then you often end up in different shards even though you are grouped.

In my mind, I'm just leveraging someone because they are in the zone that I am in, but the game doesn't know this.

Ever do the "I'll travel" "oops, I'm already traveling" dance and both end up in the opposite shards?

Reverb · October 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

DeathPK wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

DeathPK wrote: »

For PC NA at least whenever i'm in major cities like deshan there are 6-10 people in the main area next to the guild trader and cities just look dead. eso isn't as popular as it was so remove some of the layers.

Deshaan isn't a city.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

DeathPK wrote: »

For PC NA at least whenever i'm in major cities like deshan there are 6-10 people in the main area next to the guild trader and cities just look dead. eso isn't as popular as it was so remove some of the layers.

Deshaan isn't a city.

ok? what was the point of this comment?

Deshaan is a whole map zone. Not a city. What you do not understand?
If you mean Mournhold is backwater literally and figuratively because facilities aren't all together.

Try Auridon, Elden Root, Craglorn and tell me if you just see 6-10 people.

When someone talks about a city and makes a reference to Deshaan, they are talking about Mournhold. That is a popular trading hub on PC NA and it always has tons of people in view around the wayshrine when I pass through there. Possibly with the exception of 2am server time, but then I am not there, either.

Mournhold is not as backwater as you make it sound, either.

That’s not as true as it used to be. The last few months the population of Deshaan instances is (by my estimation based on guild chatter and what I see when doing surveys) 20% in Mournhold and 80% farming Mother’s Sorrow.

Hapexamendios · October 2019

The cities are cold and it’s almost winter. You want then to get sick?

starkerealm · October 2019

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

I have only seen that refered to as "shards", not layers.

"Shards," "phases," and "instances." I've never seen "layers," either.

Nova Sky · October 2019

Tiff_ar15 wrote: »

Tbh I had no idea there were different instances/layers until the dragon rise event. First time I realized it... I fought a dragon, game froze, I got kicked. When I re-logged less than a minute later... I was back to a new dragon with new players.

It's a parallel timeline/reality to the one you originally started in. There's no going back to where you were before.

Elsonso · October 2019

.

starkerealm wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

I have only seen that refered to as "shards", not layers.

"Shards," "phases," and "instances." I've never seen "layers," either.

I only refer to them as "channels" because that is how Konkle referred to them in an interview.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

I have only seen that refered to as "shards", not layers.

"Shards," "phases," and "instances." I've never seen "layers," either.

I have heard the devs mentioning "layers", it's actually a concept, but it doesn't mean the same as "instance" or "shards".
A "layer" in their tongue means, for instance, whether your encounters are friendly or hostile depending on your quest progression (like, for instance, in the Grahtwood public dungeon). Another example is Orsinium being completely destroyed/halfway rebuilt/completely rebuilt depending on your character's quest stages. Or the differences in dialogue with NPCs in Summerset, if you're an Altmer .
That's what "layers" are in the context of ESO. That's all the things that can be different between you and your groupmates, even if you're grouped and even if you're in the same shard.

InvictusApollo · October 2019

DeathPK wrote: »

craybest wrote: »

what do you mean layers? like servers? so there's more people in each city?

yes pretty much, you know sometimes when you and your mate in the same group try to meet up in a city and you can't see him that means you're in a different "layer" if there weren't layers would be hard for the servers to run because cities would be flooded with people.

This isn't Photoshop! This is a game. Those are called: "instances".

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2019

DeathPK wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

New shards of zones don't get spun up ig there aren't enough people. Perhaps you were just in a dying instance

no lol this is legit every time i'm in a city, eso has less people then it did but the same amount of layers remained

1.) The game isn't producing shards where only 6-10 people are in them unless they are the overflow. Which means there are other filled shards.
2.) Just because you can't see filled shards doesn't mean they aren't there.
3.) If you are playing during the low traffic times of course the game is going to be less populated. Everyones sleeping or has an actual real life.
4.) Players now have more cities to choose from as their hub so the alliance capitals aren't necessarily going to be teeming with people standing around firing off fifteen million BoLs and mudballing like the old days.

Donny_Vito · October 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

DeathPK wrote: »

For PC NA at least whenever i'm in major cities like deshan there are 6-10 people in the main area next to the guild trader and cities just look dead. eso isn't as popular as it was so remove some of the layers.

I don't know how long you are playing but the active population depends on: time of day, day of the week, game instance and if there's an event or not.

Also during events the majority of players moves to the region where the event is taking place.

I think your comment touches on one of the problems that the OP brings up. He calls them "layers" (you call them "instances" and other people call them "shards"). When trying to identify if a population is active you mention that you have to take into consideration game instances, and that is what the OP is wanting to limit in order to make the game feel more populated.

I don't necessarily agree, as I would like less people in my area, but I do think there is an RNG-aspect to how populated the game feels for players. I've gone into Deshaan during prime time and seen dozens of people, and then I've also went into town and only seen a handful of people during these same time periods. You'll see a similar occurrence in Craglorn on consoles (as this is typically a hub for endgame PvE'ers to find trial and DLC groups), as sometimes the zone is packed with people and other times it feels like a ghost zone. There is a sense of RNG for which instance you will get put it, and that inevitably has a factor on how populated the game feels.

Donny_Vito · October 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

I have only seen that refered to as "shards", not layers.

"Shards," "phases," and "instances." I've never seen "layers," either.

I have heard the devs mentioning "layers", it's actually a concept, but it doesn't mean the same as "instance" or "shards".
A "layer" in their tongue means, for instance, whether your encounters are friendly or hostile depending on your quest progression (like, for instance, in the Grahtwood public dungeon). Another example is Orsinium being completely destroyed/halfway rebuilt/completely rebuilt depending on your character's quest stages. Or the differences in dialogue with NPCs in Summerset, if you're an Altmer .
That's what "layers" are in the context of ESO. That's all the things that can be different between you and your groupmates, even if you're grouped and even if you're in the same shard.

Interesting. Never heard it described that way, but that makes sense. Good examples.

idk · October 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I would imagine a new instance doesn't get generated until the previous one fills up. The instances aren't very large though, so you'll never see a ton of players on-screen.

And when the additional instance is no longer needed it still takes time for it to depopulated. However, since instances cover the entire zone, not just a city, the population is spread out so how many players it can handle is not easily judged. However, we do see plenty of players in popular cities demonstrating the size seems to be a decent size.

Elsonso · October 2019

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I would imagine a new instance doesn't get generated until the previous one fills up. The instances aren't very large though, so you'll never see a ton of players on-screen.

And when the additional instance is no longer needed it still takes time for it to depopulated. However, since instances cover the entire zone, not just a city, the population is spread out so how many players it can handle is not easily judged. However, we do see plenty of players in popular cities demonstrating the size seems to be a decent size.

Whether they actively do it or not, they can merge them together. They have already proven this capability. They don't have to wait until the last person leaves to turn off the lights, and I doubt they do.

barney2525 · October 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

I always put on extra layers when it gets cold outside.

I thought we were talking about cake.

Zephard · October 2019

Raideen wrote: »

My GF and I have been running the heck out of dragons lately. Yesterday, every single time one of us logged to get onto another character (even if both characters were already in Rimmen) and even though we logged into the game at the same time roughly, it ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL put us into different layers.

Me and My wife play in pairs, we have 6 pairs. If we both log in to "already partied" pair at the same time, it's a 50/50 we are in same or different layers.

But if we log in staggered, one arrives then the other actual starts to log in, we are always in the same layer.
If we are not "partied" as in we are just moving an item off (style pages), then it again is 50/50 same/different but feels like about 90 percent different layers.

The only time our "pair" don't arrive in the same instance, is when we don't allow one to "arrive" before the other starts to log in, or we are unpartied, like after an update.

Having said that, we prefer not to feel like we are standing "in people" just to get to the crafting station, that the whole stairway is covered in people. We don't like running through people so we try to go around people, crowded is not as pleasant. We are not overly RP players, but there is some loss of immersion if you are constantly ghosting through lots of people just to get from point a to point b. Yes there will always be a crowd at certain places like the banker.

idk · October 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I would imagine a new instance doesn't get generated until the previous one fills up. The instances aren't very large though, so you'll never see a ton of players on-screen.

And when the additional instance is no longer needed it still takes time for it to depopulated. However, since instances cover the entire zone, not just a city, the population is spread out so how many players it can handle is not easily judged. However, we do see plenty of players in popular cities demonstrating the size seems to be a decent size.

Whether they actively do it or not, they can merge them together. They have already proven this capability. They don't have to wait until the last person leaves to turn off the lights, and I doubt they do.

While I am sure it can be done I doubt "they have already proven this capability" and if "they" have it probably demonstrated itself to be a poor idea for something so petty as this. We already complain about load screens and we get them constantly in Cyrodiil. This idea would most certainly add more load screens for us to complain about.

Another great point, in the middle of fighting a WB, or a dolmen, etcetera, we get put into a load screen and end up in an instance where that WB has not spawned or the dolmen is not active. See how poor that idea is. So yea, not such a great idea after all.

Number_51 · October 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

DeathPK wrote: »

craybest wrote: »

what do you mean layers? like servers? so there's more people in each city?

yes pretty much, you know sometimes when you and your mate in the same group try to meet up in a city and you can't see him that means you're in a different "layer" if there weren't layers would be hard for the servers to run because cities would be flooded with people.

If your mate is in your friends list, or in a common guild, I believe that the game prioritizes that channel (layer) that you are placed in so that you can interact. If not, grouping with them and using a wayshrine will do the trick.

(Channels is how Nick Konkle referred to them in an interview a few years back. Whether that is still the current term, I have no idea)

What I have been able to determine from in-game observation, and various interviews, is that these channels are dynamic. They can apparently use more, or fewer, of them at any time. They can even merge them together while players are active in them. I have witnessed this last one in-game, but I do not know how much that feature is used. A SWAG from in-game observation is that they seem to hold around 500 players, each. I speculate that each time you transition from one zone to another, or otherwise enter a zone, the game finds a channel for you based on ZOS criteria, like friends and guild members who are already in the zone. It may filter on other things, since some interviews state that they intended for this filtering to be quite extensive. I also speculate that they have complicated load balancing to help with over-populated and under-populated channels.

So, back to you and your mate, what my feeling is that the zone was actually more busy than you think. This is simply based on the fact that there needed to be at least two channels, and you were not placed in the same channel. The game placed you in your channel for reasons having to do with it being the top match for you as you entered the zone. Your mate was placed in the other channel for the same reasons.

Group up and have one of you move the the party leader. That will take them to the closest wayshrine in the same channel.

This. Exactly. Every time a thread comes up about the game feeling dead I want to provide this information and let them know it's because they've not been active for the past three months or whatever so the game isn't putting them in instances (channels) with people they've been playing with, friends, guildies, etc. But, while I know I've read or heard the information somewhere, I can never seem to find the source for it.

I think it includes more then just your friends list and guilds you're a member of. I know, at least on console, there is a record of "players met" that includes people you've grouped with, sent or received in-game mail from, and maybe even whispers in chat. It's the reason people that are more social tend to see the same players over and over again.

Still would like the source if anyone can provide it.

Raideen wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

But that has not always been the case as far as both of us logging out and in. In some cases I remain on a character and she logs in, the end result is the same. We are always placed into different shards/instances/layers.

This has been exasperated with the dragon event for sure. Its just annoying. Partied players should always be in the same shard.

No argument from me. That is how it should work. Seems to me that is how it used to work.

Agreed, I am not arguing, just trying to convey that it does not work like it used to and in our (my GF and I) experience has been putting us into separate shards almost without fail. In fact yesterday one time only we were in the same shard and she kinda screamed it out...because it has been that rare.

today though, back to being in different shards regardless of who we are on or when we log in or how long we have been in game.

Go figure....

This has happened to my GF and I as well. My thought is that it's because the member that remains is in a very busy/full zone because of the event, and the group member just logging in gets put in a less filled instance. If either of the grouped players travels to the other you'll be in the same instance. At times it seemed (but could be a biased perception) the load screen would be long, at least during the event. I'm guessing it depends on the number of people coming and going from the zone and waiting for a space to free up in the busy/full zone. Again this could be all in my head, but we'd try to determine which of us was in the busier zone and that person would travel to the other with what seemed like noticeably short load screens.

Elsonso · October 2019

idk wrote: »

While I am sure it can be done I doubt "they have already proven this capability" and if "they" have it probably demonstrated itself to be a poor idea for something so petty as this. We already complain about load screens and we get them constantly in Cyrodiil. This idea would most certainly add more load screens for us to complain about.

Actually, what happened was that people would suddenly appear around you, behaving as if they had always been there. They exercised this during the beta weekends. That is why I say I don't know if they still practice this, or if it was some manner of diagnostic ability that they do not put into practice. All I know is that the capability exists.