Cyrodiil - It just isn't fun anymore

adirondack · October 2019

I've been PvP'ing since launch. I've seen metas come and go. I've been there and done that. I even collected t-shirts.

But PvP just isn't fun anymore. Two reasons: mechanics and motivation

Point #1: Mechanics
I take my immovable potion and I roll dodge like a good little soldier. And then immediately get rooted, stunned, knocked back, immobilized, feared, and snared. Ridiculous unbreakable fears, bombard spam (which still isn't fixed why?), more fears, all this happening whilst I'm supposed to have immunity. Yeah right.

These things above have turned PvP in this game into a match of who can immobilize first. That's it. Doesn't matter if you like playing solo, small-man, or in a larger group - the core mechanic of PvP now is snares, fears, and immobilization. If this is your idea of fun, hey, great. To me it sure isn't. Personally I long for the days of a 45 second immovable potion.

Point #2: Motivation
Faction locks having pretty much ruined the PvP spirit - right now DC leads the PC/NA campaign with a 2x margin in campaign score. Hey, great job ZOS... you didn't think that people would flock to the winning faction and then be stuck there until the end of the campaign? You were told this would happen, it did, and now the DC zerglings ruin a campaign. (no offense to the DC hardcore groups, you guys are fun to fight)

Change Fatigue
Now to their credit, ZOS obviously recognizes that the locks were having unintended consequences are are opening a new unlocked campaign. It's yet ANOTHER change. People are making comments about change whiplash - yeah no kidding. I love changing my builds but I'd like to play them for more than a few weeks before they are rendered useless by another massive swing of the pendulum.

Don't the developers spend time evaluating decisions before they are made? Isn't a Failure-Mode Effects Analysis part of design any more? Aren't behavioral analysis studies still part of the required toolbox when making sweeping changes? Just simple fishbone diagrams would have easily predicted the impacts of the fears within the PvP environment. (this is all a project manager's way of saying, DUH!!!)

Impact to me personally
So I guess I'll go do PVE on my 13 characters. I'll PvP with my raid group for 4 hours a week. Maybe ZOS will recognize there is a problem in PvP. After all, they are selling a service that we may or may not use. Honestly I believe most people have lost a lot of faith in the developers - it seems like ideas are cooked up on a napkin at the lunch table and implemented without understanding the cause/effect on the user community, whether it be PvP or PvE.

I'm quite certain others feel much the same.

I highly recommend ZOS focus on some basic predictive analytics and work on making this game, all its aspects, fun to play. I'll do PVE for a while, but the repetition doesn't really appeal. Maybe when I'm bored with that PvP will be 'better'.

Maybe.

Ray

adirondack · October 2019

Basically, it's kinda like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBthBQ-cKJA[url][/url]

Hashtag_ · October 2019

It’s basically just faction stacks these days

NBrookus · October 2019

WTB decent root immunity. Spamming ranged CCs and roots is FAR too effective.

Also, I'd like to be able to log in at 2 in the afternoon for from less laggy PVP and not find the faction I'm locked to at pop lock versus 2 bars grabbing the last keep and scroll on the map.

Mr_Walker · October 2019

NBrookus wrote: »

WTB decent root immunity. Spamming ranged CCs and roots is FAR too effective.

Also, I'd like to be able to log in at 2 in the afternoon for from less laggy PVP and not find the faction I'm locked to at pop lock versus 2 bars grabbing the last keep and scroll on the map.

Lately I've been on the other end of that, and it's less fun for us

Sadly, there's always nitwits who want to gate camp too, which just kills the game for an hour or so.

NBrookus · October 2019

Mr_Walker wrote: »

show previous quotes

NBrookus wrote: »

WTB decent root immunity. Spamming ranged CCs and roots is FAR too effective.

Also, I'd like to be able to log in at 2 in the afternoon for from less laggy PVP and not find the faction I'm locked to at pop lock versus 2 bars grabbing the last keep and scroll on the map.

Lately I've been on the other end of that, and it's less fun for us

Sadly, there's always nitwits who want to gate camp too, which just kills the game for an hour or so.

No doubt, because I just don't play then. But I've been there, and gate ticks are bae.

Theignson · October 2019

Yes, Cyrodil NA main campaign is dead.

The Zergling faction moved from AD to DC this campaign. Now every day they take all the scrolls and keeps when there is no one on AD or EP to defend.

This is not PvP, it's PvDoor, as everyone knows.

What I don't understand, is they continue to do it, day after day-- DC has a 13,000 point lead. It must be boring? Or is the point to get Emp for as many undeserving zerglings as possible?

This has been discussed ad nauseum, there is no solution.

Xarc · October 2019

adirondack wrote: »

I'm quite certain others feel much the same.

Totally.

Heatnix90 · October 2019

Theignson wrote: »

This has been discussed ad nauseum, there is no solution.

The solution is to remove faction locks, but Lambert and Wheels are too entrenched in the "FACTIONS MUST MATTER" mindset that it's not going to happen anytime soon.

They may be introducing a lock-free campaign next patch, but it's basically been designed to fail from the get-go. There won't be any campaign resets, there won't be any unhoming for everyone involved, and the patch notes literally only have 2 sentences regarding the introduction of the campaign. The players who would normally jump at the chance at some good PvP are already gone, given how ridiculously dumb these past few patches have been.

[Edit to remove bashing]

Alienoutlaw · October 2019

PvP is only getting better by the day Faction lock was the best thing to happen as far as im concerned

casparian · October 2019

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

PvP is only getting better by the day Faction lock was the best thing to happen as far as im concerned

Can you specify which tangible changes faction lock introduced that have changed the way Cyrodiil works? The only specific change I’ve seen anyone point out that’s a clear positive is “no spies”. But spies were never a major factor in how the campaign worked, and never impacted scoring much. What exactly is better now?

Xarc · October 2019

casparian wrote: »

show previous quotes

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

PvP is only getting better by the day Faction lock was the best thing to happen as far as im concerned

Can you specify which tangible changes faction lock introduced that have changed the way Cyrodiil works? The only specific change I’ve seen anyone point out that’s a clear positive is “no spies”. But spies were never a major factor in how the campaign worked, and never impacted scoring much. What exactly is better now?

This is not really a thread about faction lock: yes or not.
But well:
My faction is losing keeps and the population is decreasing ? well, I 'll switch to the one with the bigger zerg ".

Faction lock ended that.

stephbay123 · October 2019

Theignson wrote: »

Yes, Cyrodil NA main campaign is dead.

The Zergling faction moved from AD to DC this campaign. Now every day they take all the scrolls and keeps when there is no one on AD or EP to defend.

This is not PvP, it's PvDoor, as everyone knows.

What I don't understand, is they continue to do it, day after day-- DC has a 13,000 point lead. It must be boring? Or is the point to get Emp for as many undeserving zerglings as possible?

This has been discussed ad nauseum, there is no solution.

Same has happened on ps4 eu- it amazes me though that for months it was ep and then ad then back to ep taking the map during the night, but when dc do it folk start complaining

stephbay123 · October 2019

stephbay123 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Theignson wrote: »

Yes, Cyrodil NA main campaign is dead.

The Zergling faction moved from AD to DC this campaign. Now every day they take all the scrolls and keeps when there is no one on AD or EP to defend.

This is not PvP, it's PvDoor, as everyone knows.

What I don't understand, is they continue to do it, day after day-- DC has a 13,000 point lead. It must be boring? Or is the point to get Emp for as many undeserving zerglings as possible?

This has been discussed ad nauseum, there is no solution.

Same has happened on ps4 eu- it amazes me though that for months it was ep and then ad then back to ep taking the map during the night, but when dc do it folk start complaining

And just to say I’m ad but get annoyed when the in game text is full of moans about dc taking the map when we done it for months

Jayelf · October 2019

Agreed Ray.

Delphinia · October 2019

@adirondack , very well said.. over 20k point spread is just slightly comical...

not much of a "healthy" competition if you're one who does enjoy map play. Really not sure the last time I saw such a point difference. What's funny is, players in this "winning" faction always used to send hate tells and some would say how we "should know better" and "how is this fun?" and we're "zerging".. guess it was their way to try and justify their behavior...all I could do was just laugh and wonder if they really didn't see the mass amount of players on their faction outnumbering the other two factions in that immediate area....

I only play maybe one or two nights a week now, but everywhere I go lately, it's like 40+ that come blobbing in every time. And then ofc, patting each other on the back and tbagging ...

Even when AD won a few camps ago and had some players from other factions come over to help, the scoring was still very much competitive. Sometimes even until the last day or two, no one really knew who would come in first. I don't know what the thought process was for the last couple of months, but this is an excellent way to kill a camp... maybe that's what the end goal is ...

on a brighter note, been playing less and less this summer/fall and enjoying a ton more time with family and friends.. so, maybe not entirely a bad thing..

Minnesinger · October 2019

Delphinia wrote: »

@adirondack , very well said.. over 20k point spread is just slightly comical...

not much of a "healthy" competition if you're one who does enjoy map play. Really not sure the last time I saw such a point difference. What's funny is, players in this faction always used to say how we "should know better" and "how is this fun?" and we're "zerging".. I only play maybe one or two nights a week now, but everywhere I go lately, it's like 40+ that come blobbing in every time. And then ofc, patting each other on the back and tbagging ...

Even when AD won a few camps ago and had some players from other factions come over to help, the scoring was still very much competitive. Sometimes even until the last day or two, no one really knew who would come in first. I don't know what the thought process was, but this is an excellent way to kill a camp... maybe that's what the end goal is ...

on a brighter note, been playing less and less this summer/fall and enjoying a ton more time with family and friends.. so, maybe not entirely a bad thing..

Yea the current pvp has lost all that was important in the beginning. The competition- Gone, balanced fights-Gone, guilds vs guilds-Gone for the big part just faction stacks, good group leaders-Gone just a bunch of zerglings. You can realize the loss of the solid pvp players just by reading these forums. For a big part there are no good topics about the tactics and fair fights. The golden age has surely passed ESO but they are still in mind. RIP No Mercy, DiE, Alacrity, Venatus, Havoc and many many more fun guilds.

That being said it is really bad pr for this game that players go for one faction to destroy the pvp. Not one faction should have such a upperhand that Dc has now on PC NA. Their faction has always the bigger numbers. They seem to be reluctant to change that. Some guilds are even proud of their bad reputation and add more salt by doing the pvdoor offhours daily. Good job zerglings. DC is on the top when it comes to dirty job. AD used to have the same issue and so EP but the population imbalance has never been so big in the main campaign. My respect for the 2 factions EP and AD has grown. They go through this mess every day. DC, on the other hand, gets no sympathy from me.

Delsskia · October 2019

Lopsided campaign scores brought to you by faction lock. Just another nail in Cyrodiil's coffin.

Heimpai · October 2019

I sign in to get my daily and mount skills on alts then go back to destiny 2...Been that way for like 2 weeks now..

Get off work having no scrolls or keeps and sometimes being gate camped just isn’t worth the time anymore..

Vlad9425 · October 2019

Everyone just stacks to one faction now and the lag and loading screens are just awful. This is without even discussing the awful cast times and crap balance. I only log on nowadays to do a couple of daylies but aside from that I can't see myself being in Cyrodiil for long.

goldCoaster · October 2019

Faction lock is awesome.

And DC has always been the best. Even when we were perpetually down and out.

DC fo’ life.

Minnesinger · October 2019

goldCoaster wrote: »

Faction lock is working well for my faction and thus for me.

And DC has always been lacking quality guilds but just a handful and they quit. Even when we were perpetually down and out.

DC fo’ life.

There you go. No need to thank me.

josh.lackey_ESO · October 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

show previous quotes

casparian wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

PvP is only getting better by the day Faction lock was the best thing to happen as far as im concerned

Can you specify which tangible changes faction lock introduced that have changed the way Cyrodiil works? The only specific change I’ve seen anyone point out that’s a clear positive is “no spies”. But spies were never a major factor in how the campaign worked, and never impacted scoring much. What exactly is better now?

This is not really a thread about faction lock: yes or not.
But well:
My faction is losing keeps and the population is decreasing ? well, I 'll switch to the one with the bigger zerg ".

Faction lock ended that.

Except it was almost always the other way around. People moved from the zerging faction to the lower population faction. It's more fun to pick off people in the zerg and to be one of the people in the zerg.

One of the worst changes, perhaps even more than faction lock, was destructible bridges and gates. It basically just ruins the map for anything but zerging keeps. If I could revert any change to Cyro, it wouldn't be faction lock. I'd go back to the old map with indestructible gates and bridges.

NBrookus · October 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

show previous quotes

casparian wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

PvP is only getting better by the day Faction lock was the best thing to happen as far as im concerned

Can you specify which tangible changes faction lock introduced that have changed the way Cyrodiil works? The only specific change I’ve seen anyone point out that’s a clear positive is “no spies”. But spies were never a major factor in how the campaign worked, and never impacted scoring much. What exactly is better now?

This is not really a thread about faction lock: yes or not.
But well:
My faction is losing keeps and the population is decreasing ? well, I 'll switch to the one with the bigger zerg ".

Faction lock ended that.

No, it didn't. If you have @ names turned on you'll see the players who like to stand behind 60 other people switch to whomever is dominant. Isn't it astonishing how all of the sudden long time underdog DC can sport a faction lock nearly 24/7 as soon as they pull off a win?

The guilds and groups most able to counter this, and who most WANT to counter this and look for outnumbered fights, are also locked, even if it means they get little or no actual pvp.

Mr_Walker · October 2019

This game could have 50% less CC and it would still have too much CC.

josh.lackey_ESO · October 2019

This game has effectively no CC since you can immediately break free and then be immune for 7 seconds.

Heatnix90 · October 2019

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One of the worst changes, perhaps even more than faction lock, was destructible bridges and gates. It basically just ruins the map for anything but zerging keeps. If I could revert any change to Cyro, it wouldn't be faction lock. I'd go back to the old map with indestructible gates and bridges.

What I find most curious is that ZOS disabled the destruction of cathedral-style keeps and resource towers in the name of "performance" but not milegates and bridges. Seems to me like they should have done so if they really cared about performance.

Mr_Walker · October 2019

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

This game has effectively no CC since you can immediately break free and then be immune for 7 seconds.

In theory. In practice, that's different....

FrancisCrawford · October 2019

Naive questions:

Which campaign is it on PC/NA that the DC is dominating?
How are the other campaigns going?
When do these campaigns end?
Is there anyway to check this oneself other than by joining the campaigns and hence (in some cases) triggering faction lock?

Joy_Division · October 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Naive questions:
Which campaign is it on PC/NA that the DC is dominating?

How are the other campaigns going?

When do these campaigns end?

Is there anyway to check this oneself other than by joining the campaigns and hence (in some cases) triggering faction lock?

Kaal
empty
2 days
following my guild to WoW

adirondack · October 2019

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

This game has effectively no CC since you can immediately break free and then be immune for 7 seconds.

CC immunity. Yeah that would be nice. It doesn’t actually happen. Mechanics simply become non-responsive in lag. Honestly I’d be a lot happier if this elusive CC immunity actually worked and wasn’t bypassed by certain abilities.

Oh well. At least PVE works perfectly. /sarcasm.