Cyrodiil - It just isn't fun anymore

Fur_like_snow

Just end the three banner war and move onto the next arena five years later it’s time to move on. Clearly they can’t fix the lag issues in Cyrodiil so let’s try things on a new map with low pop caps and see that works. PvP deserves a DLC and it’ll make new players interested in that kind of content again and the story can finally move forward.

Koensol

Katahdin wrote: »

RedGirl41 wrote: »

All pvp is is siege now. Even when ur defending a keep people of the opposite alliance will sprint upstairs and pour oils over us while we defend (and it ticks on you for 17k+) everyone is way too afraid to fight and they just run away to siege more. It does way too much damage ( cold stone treb does 20k one shot)

If people aren’t sieging they are just tanks or ganks. Usually sprinting away to get a new o tic. Once they changed the ap gains to be 6k per keep and 1.5k per resource that really ruined pvp. Made ranks irrelevant and nobody wants to fight.

Disclaimer Idc if you use siege and like to play the campaign and defend the map etc. you go be ur best self. Just know there’s a time and a place and it is a player vs player zone. Fight for ap.

It has nothing to do with AP gain from taking keeps and resources. You win the campaign by taking and holding territory. Its designed to be an objective based game and that's how it is played. You fight other groups all the time in the process.

People don't want to fight the tank meta and the troll groups that spend an hour playing ring around the tower or keep wall boring everyone to death with their stupidity.

If all you want is a deathmatch game, go play that on battle grounds or find another game that does it better.

Maybe if you didn't want deathmatch pvp, you should stop chasing these players. But no, of course your playstyle is the only way the game is intended to be played. How could we people who enjoy fighting players in stead of doors ever be so bold as to play how we like.

gepe87

1)Bring back Summerset siege dots, and tune down a bit.
2)Remove Vicious Death;
3)Rework/Remove Prox Detonation

Mayrael

All is just a matter of perception. I still enjoy Cyrodiil a lot. I run without group, but often I join others to help them. Sometimes I get some resources to wait for players who want to take it back. Sometimes I will camp towns. Other day I'll be trolling enemy keeps to distract as many players as possible and help this way to take other keeps. There is so many options. Fighting is ofcourse still the most entertaining thing to do and it can be found anywhere.

Enkil

PvP been sucking past few months. There are plenty of threads and post about the issues: Hammer, OP DoTs, zerg favoring in design, dumbing down and standardizing/homogenizing skills into oblivion, no midyear meyhem, on and on...

Got my horses all to 60 so no reason to even log in anymore. Maybe yet another team will take over and fix all these issues by next year.

Davadin

still kinda fun for me. i login at least 5x a week and been doing it for years.

kinda got quiet when new content is released, but it all picks up again. what's refreshing is to see all the new people joining in. low ranks, never seem them before, low CP. of course, zone chat is still choked full of the old farts.

DC was winning, but heeeey EP is back on top again. I like faction lock, but for those who don't, aren't we getting a new lock-free campaign soon?

if anything, personally for me, it's a little demotivating when there seems to be no glaring objective when i log in. there's no "goal" that i look forward to. getting some transmute stones, crappy jewelries, a bit of extra cash after hundreds of hours in the 30-day campaign seems.... dull.........

Voltranox

I agree Davadin. The rewards are not inspiring. Although the little gold from it is my only source of gold in the game. I spend it all on crafting materials for new builds.

The transmute stones are very good for that too. With all 19 of my characters doing pvp, there's always lots of transmutations going on.

There are 2 things bugging me about pvp at the moment.
One is all the tanky characters who just bog down the fighting. Okay, okay, no one can dent your health, well done for you. Yawn.
Second thing is the map. Increasingly I've been getting bored with the same layout and terrain. I know it is difficult to make a balanced map for a 3-way war...but triangular? Might be fun to fight on something more realistic. Or at least different.

NBrookus

Davadin wrote: »

I like faction lock, but for those who don't, aren't we getting a new lock-free campaign soon?

We have it already. It's like 7 day was. No one goes there because no one goes there. Players or groups that try it have no one to fight so they go back to Kaal.

We just don't have enough PVP pop left to support two campaigns, and we absolutely won't until the performance issues get resolved. (If ever.)

Voltranox

It seems that attention spans are getting shorter with people. If a game/series/website doesn't quickly provide what they want, they blithely drop it and move on. This may be what's happening in ESO PVP's declining population.

Lag, bugs (like the horrible graphic flickering at keeps), ballgroups, one map, almost-unkillable-builds, cheating and constantly fluctuating skills may all be contributing to it. I don't have to scroll down my friends list very far to see people that haven't logged in for weeks or several months.

There are new players trying out PVP which is good...but how long will they stay. There are so many sources of entertainment and games out there. Increasingly I'm asking myself why I am stubbornly persisting with it. Habit? Familiarity? Bah, pfft.

Delphinia

Voltranox wrote: »

It seems that attention spans are getting shorter with people. If a game/series/website doesn't quickly provide what they want, they blithely drop it and move on. This may be what's happening in ESO PVP's declining population.

Lag, bugs (like the horrible graphic flickering at keeps), ballgroups, one map, almost-unkillable-builds, cheating and constantly fluctuating skills may all be contributing to it. I don't have to scroll down my friends list very far to see people that haven't logged in for weeks or several months.

There are new players trying out PVP which is good...but how long will they stay. There are so many sources of entertainment and games out there. Increasingly I'm asking myself why I am stubbornly persisting with it. Habit? Familiarity? Bah, pfft.

Agreed, one thing I'd like to add regarding "short attention spans"..., my husband and I have been playing since 2014 and 5 years in pvp, seems like a fair amount of time to give them to improve. We have not completely left, but do log in less.

I know it happens on all factions, but it gets old when you see two factions standing side by side not fighting (especially when you're in last place, no scrolls, no emp)....

I have friends on other factions as well, so I understand not wanting to fight friends, but then the 3 faction war really isn't 3 factions at that point. Also, old grudges die hard... it's clear that no matter who comes or goes, some players will always have a "hatred" towards one particular faction, while helping out the other.

It's not that I don't understand it, but it does make for very stale gaming.. it's like having deja vu

It would make sense if, let's say one faction had, I don't know, a lead of like 20k? Then, the other two factions would try and work together to help balance the playing field a bit... unfortunately, I've been seeing the opposite during the years I've played. This is obviously just my personal experience, and I'm sure other players have their own. I haven't completely given up on the pvp in this game, but you are correct in all of the other reasons you have listed..

GhostofDatthaw

Delphinia wrote: »

Voltranox wrote: »

It seems that attention spans are getting shorter with people. If a game/series/website doesn't quickly provide what they want, they blithely drop it and move on. This may be what's happening in ESO PVP's declining population.

Lag, bugs (like the horrible graphic flickering at keeps), ballgroups, one map, almost-unkillable-builds, cheating and constantly fluctuating skills may all be contributing to it. I don't have to scroll down my friends list very far to see people that haven't logged in for weeks or several months.

There are new players trying out PVP which is good...but how long will they stay. There are so many sources of entertainment and games out there. Increasingly I'm asking myself why I am stubbornly persisting with it. Habit? Familiarity? Bah, pfft.

Agreed, one thing I'd like to add regarding "short attention spans"..., my husband and I have been playing since 2014 and 5 years in pvp, seems like a fair amount of time to give them to improve. We have not completely left, but do log in less.

I know it happens on all factions, but it gets old when you see two factions standing side by side not fighting (especially when you're in last place, no scrolls, no emp)....

I have friends on other factions as well, so I understand not wanting to fight friends, but then the 3 faction war really isn't 3 factions at that point. Also, old grudges die hard... it's clear that no matter who comes or goes, some players will always have a "hatred" towards one particular faction, while helping out the other.

It's not that I don't understand it, but it does make for very stale gaming.. it's like having deja vu

It would make sense if, let's say one faction had, I don't know, a lead of like 20k? Then, the other two factions would try and work together to help balance the playing field a bit... unfortunately, I've been seeing the opposite during the years I've played. This is obviously just my personal experience, and I'm sure other players have their own. I haven't completely given up on the pvp in this game, but you are correct in all of the other reasons you have listed..

This is the problem with the game just getting stale, all the guilds that played the map left now it's ap farming

Curious_Death

adirondack wrote: »

I've been PvP'ing since launch. I've seen metas come and go. I've been there and done that. I even collected t-shirts.

But PvP just isn't fun anymore. Two reasons: mechanics and motivation


Point #1: Mechanics
I take my immovable potion and I roll dodge like a good little soldier. And then immediately get rooted, stunned, knocked back, immobilized, feared, and snared. Ridiculous unbreakable fears, bombard spam (which still isn't fixed why?), more fears, all this happening whilst I'm supposed to have immunity. Yeah right.

These things above have turned PvP in this game into a match of who can immobilize first. That's it. Doesn't matter if you like playing solo, small-man, or in a larger group - the core mechanic of PvP now is snares, fears, and immobilization. If this is your idea of fun, hey, great. To me it sure isn't. Personally I long for the days of a 45 second immovable potion.


Point #2: Motivation
Faction locks having pretty much ruined the PvP spirit - right now DC leads the PC/NA campaign with a 2x margin in campaign score. Hey, great job ZOS... you didn't think that people would flock to the winning faction and then be stuck there until the end of the campaign? You were told this would happen, it did, and now the DC zerglings ruin a campaign. (no offense to the DC hardcore groups, you guys are fun to fight)


Change Fatigue
Now to their credit, ZOS obviously recognizes that the locks were having unintended consequences are are opening a new unlocked campaign. It's yet ANOTHER change. People are making comments about change whiplash - yeah no kidding. I love changing my builds but I'd like to play them for more than a few weeks before they are rendered useless by another massive swing of the pendulum.

Don't the developers spend time evaluating decisions before they are made? Isn't a Failure-Mode Effects Analysis part of design any more? Aren't behavioral analysis studies still part of the required toolbox when making sweeping changes? Just simple fishbone diagrams would have easily predicted the impacts of the fears within the PvP environment. (this is all a project manager's way of saying, DUH!!!)


Impact to me personally
So I guess I'll go do PVE on my 13 characters. I'll PvP with my raid group for 4 hours a week. Maybe ZOS will recognize there is a problem in PvP. After all, they are selling a service that we may or may not use. Honestly I believe most people have lost a lot of faith in the developers - it seems like ideas are cooked up on a napkin at the lunch table and implemented without understanding the cause/effect on the user community, whether it be PvP or PvE.

I'm quite certain others feel much the same.

I highly recommend ZOS focus on some basic predictive analytics and work on making this game, all its aspects, fun to play. I'll do PVE for a while, but the repetition doesn't really appeal. Maybe when I'm bored with that PvP will be 'better'.

Maybe.

Ray

At least u can fight - versus zergs - but still
We have in EU - AD who's using that in EARLY morning/night no1s play and doing PVDoors all the time 5 days in a week (coz in wekend their ass got kicked again and again), they start with maxed scrolls buffs + emp whos mostly afk around main cities. - also when every1 sleeps- they score is growing... so this score is stolen - coz unlike in NA - we have hours - when srsly NO1 is online. (only loosers who wake up EARLY for PvDoor)

RMerlin

Maybe a crazy idea, but just throwing it out there:

To help against nightcapping, how about increasing NPC power if a faction is underpopulated? How about having NPCs start using sieges when underpopulated?

Might be hard to properly balance, but might as well consider coming up with some new ideas, since ZOS seems un able to resolve the issues with the existing ideas... Magicka Detonation for instance was initially supposed to be a zerg killer, and it turned instead into a zerg weapon.

Taking out that stupid hammer would certainly help reduce the zerging by a bit. I initially liked the idea of an artifact until I saw how unbalanced it was, and how much zerging it encouraged (because being so OP).

Regarding faction lock... Remember a year or two ago when we had a 30-days camp on NA that was decided during the very last weekend? On Friday night, any of the three faction still had a shot to win it. First and second place were only decided on the very last day (Sunday if I remember correctly). We were able to have good balance then without faction locking. So, I'm not sure which problem locking resolved - seems to me that it created new problems instead.

Personally, I still think that 30-days is part of the problem. The last three campaigns were largely won after only one week (twice by DC, once by EP). Last two-three weeks were just a boring grind because you had no hope of winning at that point. IMHO, we need to either have main camps reduced to two weeks, or introduce some new win condition that may end campaign prematurely (once it becomes impossible to turn the campaign around, particularly since people are now faction-locked and can't switch to the other faction to rebalance things).

RMerlin

Re. change fatigue evoked by the initial poster: I agree 1000%. I'm tired of having to redo my build every patch because of major changes to either skills or gear. Existing gear should NEVER have their abilities completely changed - replace them with new gear instead. I'm thinking for instance about 7th Legion which doesn't do anything like it used to. Or that Cyro set that increased movement speed, and was turned into something completely different.

My former main that I used to play since launch is mostly retired because I have to switch to a completely different play style for it to still be competitive (and such radical changes happened at least twice over the past 3-4 years). The necro I built at Elsweyr's launch had to be redesigned twice already because of changes made by ZOS to both gear and skills. Kinda hard to get attached to your character when you don't know if that character will remotely still be the same when the next patch comes in three months.

And by change, I'm not referring to just lowering this stat or increasing that stat, but to the fact that skills are majorly changed, gear have their five piece bonus radically changed, etc...

Katahdin

Koensol wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

RedGirl41 wrote: »

All pvp is is siege now. Even when ur defending a keep people of the opposite alliance will sprint upstairs and pour oils over us while we defend (and it ticks on you for 17k+) everyone is way too afraid to fight and they just run away to siege more. It does way too much damage ( cold stone treb does 20k one shot)

If people aren’t sieging they are just tanks or ganks. Usually sprinting away to get a new o tic. Once they changed the ap gains to be 6k per keep and 1.5k per resource that really ruined pvp. Made ranks irrelevant and nobody wants to fight.

Disclaimer Idc if you use siege and like to play the campaign and defend the map etc. you go be ur best self. Just know there’s a time and a place and it is a player vs player zone. Fight for ap.

It has nothing to do with AP gain from taking keeps and resources. You win the campaign by taking and holding territory. Its designed to be an objective based game and that's how it is played. You fight other groups all the time in the process.

People don't want to fight the tank meta and the troll groups that spend an hour playing ring around the tower or keep wall boring everyone to death with their stupidity.

If all you want is a deathmatch game, go play that on battle grounds or find another game that does it better.

Maybe if you didn't want deathmatch pvp, you should stop chasing these players. But no, of course your playstyle is the only way the game is intended to be played. How could we people who enjoy fighting players in stead of doors ever be so bold as to play how we like.

I don't chase them, I go somewhere else and let them play ring around the rosie by themselves. They don't actually fight, they just run around and around and around getting dizzy.

I get plenty of player on player fights taking and defend keeps as well as some open field.

Katahdin

SilverPaws wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

RedGirl41 wrote: »

All pvp is is siege now. Even when ur defending a keep people of the opposite alliance will sprint upstairs and pour oils over us while we defend (and it ticks on you for 17k+) everyone is way too afraid to fight and they just run away to siege more. It does way too much damage ( cold stone treb does 20k one shot)

If people aren’t sieging they are just tanks or ganks. Usually sprinting away to get a new o tic. Once they changed the ap gains to be 6k per keep and 1.5k per resource that really ruined pvp. Made ranks irrelevant and nobody wants to fight.

Disclaimer Idc if you use siege and like to play the campaign and defend the map etc. you go be ur best self. Just know there’s a time and a place and it is a player vs player zone. Fight for ap.

It has nothing to do with AP gain from taking keeps and resources. You win the campaign by taking and holding territory. Its designed to be an objective based game and that's how it is played. You fight other groups all the time in the process.

People don't want to fight the tank meta and the troll groups that spend an hour playing ring around the tower or keep wall boring everyone to death with their stupidity.

If all you want is a deathmatch game, go play that on battle grounds or find another game that does it better.

Zergling that gets farmed by small scallers detected.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

As I stated, I leave those circle jerking groups to play ring around the rosie by themselves.

Iskiab

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

People don't want to fight the tank meta and the troll groups that spend an hour playing ring around the tower or keep wall boring everyone to death with their stupidity.

Oh, god yes. The whole "let's kite around the tower for 20 minutes" is so boring as soon as I see they're doing it now I usually just run off. I don't even see the point of the builds, they're generally pretty useless.

This. Most of the small scalers are mad people aren’t wasting their time chasing them anymore, are grouping up and taking them out instead.

antihero727

Every few months I read the forums. After I see that the lag, balance and general health of the game hasn’t changed or got worse I go back to a better game. Looks like it’s going to be another few months till checking in again. Have fun beating your heads against the wall for devs that can’t fulfill launch promises or even have a fully functioning game.

SilverPaws

Zerglings mentality is always so funny.. Salty, because you can't kill few players even when you outnumber them 20v4 sad.
Maybe if your pvp wasn't just siegeing empty keeps and fighting guards then you would know how to kill those players

BRogueNZ

Id say four meta synthesizers could deal to 20 scrubs non meta un grouped randoms without being too surprised.

Nevidyra

SilverPaws wrote: »

Zerglings mentality is always so funny.. Salty, because you can't kill few players even when you outnumber them 20v4 sad.
Maybe if your pvp wasn't just siegeing empty keeps and fighting guards then you would know how to kill those players

Funny how I can whip most of these players asses in duels at Stormhaven but can't take out a coordinated group of six on my own.

It's almost like Discord and group-builds specifically made for taking out large numbers of players are effective when fighting larger groups. Golly gee, who would've known.

Now, get off your high horse and tone back your ego. You've zerged. You probably zerg serf on a daily basis. It's a valid playstyle, just like how small-scale, 1vX/2vX, and Ball Groups are also valid playstyles. I'm willing to bet you spend 90% of your day dying to people with maybe 1-2 successful fights and you think you're some kind of 1vX god compared to the zerglings. Stop pretending you're better than everyone else. It's bloody annoying.

Bewdu

Only thing that i find is breaking pvp is just the constant unbalance of the class i understand one will always have some kind of advantage but in ESO they always make one way stronger than the others. Flavor of the month is so strong in this game over any other game its crazy!

SilverPaws

Nevidyra wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Zerglings mentality is always so funny.. Salty, because you can't kill few players even when you outnumber them 20v4 sad.
Maybe if your pvp wasn't just siegeing empty keeps and fighting guards then you would know how to kill those players

Funny how I can whip most of these players asses in duels at Stormhaven but can't take out a coordinated group of six on my own.

It's almost like Discord and group-builds specifically made for taking out large numbers of players are effective when fighting larger groups. Golly gee, who would've known.

Now, get off your high horse and tone back your ego. You've zerged. You probably zerg serf on a daily basis. It's a valid playstyle, just like how small-scale, 1vX/2vX, and Ball Groups are also valid playstyles. I'm willing to bet you spend 90% of your day dying to people with maybe 1-2 successful fights and you think you're some kind of 1vX god compared to the zerglings. Stop pretending you're better than everyone else. It's bloody annoying.

I have nothing against zerglings I am just saying that it's funny how they are hating on small scallers, but nice try

usmguy1234

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

People don't want to fight the tank meta and the troll groups that spend an hour playing ring around the tower or keep wall boring everyone to death with their stupidity.

Oh, god yes. The whole "let's kite around the tower for 20 minutes" is so boring as soon as I see they're doing it now I usually just run off. I don't even see the point of the builds, they're generally pretty useless.

Yes people run around a tower farming pugs just for the heck of it... it has nothing to do with the absurd amounts of ap you can make doing it.

Mr_Walker

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

People don't want to fight the tank meta and the troll groups that spend an hour playing ring around the tower or keep wall boring everyone to death with their stupidity.

Oh, god yes. The whole "let's kite around the tower for 20 minutes" is so boring as soon as I see they're doing it now I usually just run off. I don't even see the point of the builds, they're generally pretty useless.

Yes people run around a tower farming pugs just for the heck of it... it has nothing to do with the absurd amounts of ap you can make doing it.

1) Anyone who plays PvP regularly has more AP than they know what to do with.

2) Most of the ones I come across are hard-pressed to kill anyone. Useless builds. Worse than useless, they're boring builds. Is it really an achievement to be so boring people would sooner run away from you?

3) To the farm groups that sit in a resource tower and farm opposing players, I love you guys. Unless you're playing for my faction. Take your ball group and do something useful FFS. Of course, if you're not my faction, bravo to you for denying that valuable 1 point on the scoreboard to X faction.

Jabbs_Giggity

stephbay123 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Yes, Cyrodil NA main campaign is dead.

The Zergling faction moved from AD to DC this campaign. Now every day they take all the scrolls and keeps when there is no one on AD or EP to defend.

This is not PvP, it's PvDoor, as everyone knows.

What I don't understand, is they continue to do it, day after day-- DC has a 13,000 point lead. It must be boring? Or is the point to get Emp for as many undeserving zerglings as possible?

This has been discussed ad nauseum, there is no solution.

Same has happened on ps4 eu- it amazes me though that for months it was ep and then ad then back to ep taking the map during the night, but when dc do it folk start complaining

There is obviously a clear distinction in systems for whom players advocate allegiance to in PVP. I play Xbox NA and can say this. EP Always had an extremely strong presence in Cyrodiil Main Camps, but (before faction lock) it was always "Team Green" that would swap back and forth between AD and DC.
Can't remember which patch it was with the heavy bans from exploiting one of the new DLC Dungeons, but A LOT of HC EP PVPers were banned from ESO and it really diminished the leadership presence for EP at that time. Ever since, EP has been an underdog always fighting on two fronts with the smallest group composition and population.

I don't mind "zerg" fights every now and then, but lately it's been maybe 20-30 EP defending a keep (at full pop-lock, by the way) against either 70+ AD or 70+ DC, or sometimes both . This to me isn't fun.

The Tank Meta is the worst experience in PVP to play against, 10x worse going up against 24-man groups all with 30K+ Health and a moderately average WD of 6K+ on those "Tank" setups...

I still feel that group composition should be limited to 12-man, instead of 24-man in Cyrodiil.

Jabbs_Giggity

Joy_Division wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Naive questions:

• Which campaign is it on PC/NA that the DC is dominating?
• How are the other campaigns going?
• When do these campaigns end?
• Is there anyway to check this oneself other than by joining the campaigns and hence (in some cases) triggering faction lock?

• Kaal
• empty
• 2 days
• following my guild to WoW

For Xbox it's the same...DC dominating Kaal - last I checked scores was 4 days ago. DC was winning at over 100K score. AD was second with 85K and EP was way under at like 60K.
All other Camps are completely empty.
Ends in a few days.
I honestly think that ZOS should remove factions from characters and tie the factions to Cyrodiil directly. Instead of "Faction Locking" by who you enter Cyro with, when you enter a campaign the first time you choose which faction you want to play for and locks all characters on account for duration of campaign.

Character selection (in terms of factions) would purely only determine your starting region and main quest region.

ZarkingFrued

Faction locks need removed, and I hit snare removal dk wings 4 times in a row on Mdk last night only to continue to remain extremely snared the entire time

idk

NBrookus wrote: »

WTB decent root immunity. Spamming ranged CCs and roots is FAR too effective.

Also, I'd like to be able to log in at 2 in the afternoon for from less laggy PVP and not find the faction I'm locked to at pop lock versus 2 bars grabbing the last keep and scroll on the map.

You mean you WTB a game that performs properly.

Saepio

Just get rid of that F'n ridiculous hammer, totally ruins the game during low pop time frames.