It would be nice to see mechanical and skill based counter play to dots. Fixing the purge system would go a long way. I think moving all movement de-buffs into a separate category only purged by skills like forward momentum, shuffle and race against time would both improve the value of those skills and movement debuffs while simultaneously removing purge clutter.

You could further clean up the system by having root source purges. Sometimes when an affect goes off it can cause 3 or 4 debuffs to happen. Root purging would ensure that you purge action sources not individual debuffs. They have already done this with mark target by consolidating and linking the affects.

An example of this system in action. A Dk uses light atk into a burning embers which puts a burn, a fire dot, and 30% snare on the target and their double dot poison triggers. The target casts purge and 1 of the 3 cleanses is used up to remove the burn and the fire dot since they both originated from the burning embers on cast. The second purge is used to clear out the double dot poison but the slow is a movement debuff and therefore is not removed by cleanse.

Mechanically, I think dots should be blockable but cause more fatigue to block cost. This way the 2 systems counter each other. You can block to stop the pressure of a dot build up at a crucial time. Dots are less of an immediate threat to tanky builds. But dots are also the go to tool for stripping out the longevity of a block tank. DoT stacks into Fear style CC into burst becomes the valued build for ripping out heavy block tanks while the rest of the game has viable counterplay available to load against that oppressive reaver playstyle.

[quote="Nerhesi;c-6391962"You can't have DoTs being sub-par choices in the game. We have to accept the fact that there needs to be other options that are as good as just spammable DD.

Not "Give me dots but give access to something that totally clears them and make it affordable..." Sigh. You may as well not have dots[/quote]

Single target melee direct damage, aoe direct damage, and ranged projectiles all have heavy counter play options available for the opposition. You are saying that dots only have value as long as there is no counter play options. It is kind of a ridiculous sentiment to make.

iCaliban wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Instead of gutting dots across the board and increasing costs, which absolutely nobody wants. How about you gives us actual counterplay to dots and make purge more worthwhile?

Suggestion: cost of efficient purge cut in half, and increase the number of effects purged slightly.

No. Dot meta was bad. It was a failed experiment. Let it go. Let it slide into oblivion.

Im not necessarily arguing for the supposed dot meta to return (dots arent actually meta right now, but this echo chamber wouldnt know it, in pvp at least). A slight nerf would be fine, not 40-50% nerfs compounded with cost increases.

Giving players counterplay is more interesting than just reducing 7-8 skills to garbage tier again IMO

Yea I agree, but it’s difficult. Right now small scale players are pretty ineffective because so many are in dot specs. Larger groups will always have at least 1 person cleansing or purging because of cc.

Where dots didn’t work well in pvp is because it became a noob trap. Looks great on paper, terrible in practice because all dots were cleansed before they could do any harm against groups. Against other small scale players they were effective so people lost out there if they didn’t use them.

Ended up a situation where small scalers couldn’t scratch groups and large group dominance.

I mean cleanse right now on live is 2-4k heal per effect removed, x6 people effected per cast. Against multiple dot specs one cleanse cast is a 40k heal if everyone has 3 negative effects, trying to use them against a group actually helps heal the group and gets turned around on the dotter.

I’m also primarily mid to large scale in Cyro so what I’m saying is against my own interests, just clarifying the situation so to speak. I don’t think there’s an easy fix, cleanse is already nerfed in PTS so that will help, but dots shouldn’t be useless.

Juhasow wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Instead of gutting dots across the board and increasing costs, which absolutely nobody wants. How about you gives us actual counterplay to dots and make purge more worthwhile?

Suggestion: cost of efficient purge cut in half, and increase the number of effects purged slightly.

Actually lot of people never wanted for DoTs buffs in scalebreaker to come on live server.

As for purge it cleanses only 2 negative effects. That is nothing considering that many builds can keep up to around 10 negative effects on You these days.

It’s 3 effects, or at least cleanse is.

Juhasow wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Instead of gutting dots across the board and increasing costs, which absolutely nobody wants. How about you gives us actual counterplay to dots and make purge more worthwhile?

Suggestion: cost of efficient purge cut in half, and increase the number of effects purged slightly.

Actually lot of people never wanted for DoTs buffs in scalebreaker to come on live server.

As for purge it cleanses only 2 negative effects. That is nothing considering that many builds can keep up to around 10 negative effects on You these days.

It’s 3 effects, or at least cleanse is.

Well yeah I've forgot they've changed it to 3 effects. Still not much.

Solo yea you’re right. It has a 6 target cap though per cast and 15m range I think it is. Cleanse is the good morph, as a healer you can get up to a 15% heal per effect with % healing modifiers and it can crit. Effect is 18 effects removed per cast, each effect healing from 2-4k per effect (after battle spirit) so a 40k heal per cast. It’s being nerfed, but live it’s easily the best heal in the game. With a spec designed to take advantage of it you can cast it almost every GCD, sometimes every second or third GCD.

That’s why I called dots a noob trap and cleanse a small scale killer.

I have only BG experience. But cleanse in its actually implementation is not that helpfull.
Its cost and range and the sheer number of dots players have on them in matter of seconds makes impossible to use it with any sort of usefull result

I hope that what I wrote makes any sense