ESO dealing with Impatience and Intolerance from players caused by other MMOs

Rosiveil · April 2014

I found myself less tolerant of down times and problems than I should be because of how fed up I am with other games. I think these guys are really getting the short end of the stick when it comes to understanding and patience from the players as a whole. We have been jerked around by so many different games that any little inconvenience feels massive and we vent our compiled frustrations from years of abuse (lol) into these forums aimed at undeserving people. I for one am glad to be free of some of the industry chokers like WoW and such...but the anger lingers on. And as much as I try to be aware of that and address it, I think ESO should be taking that into consideration as well. This game is dominant in so many ways to what else is available but that doesnt make me more tolerant of mishaps and what-not. We need to meet in the middle here. More information would cool my jets a little for sure. Not asking for much;)

george.smithb16_ESO · April 2014

Although the game has more bugs than we would like, and some of them whoppers, the actual angst expressed by players when the server goes down, is a reflection of just how much fun they are having, in spite of all the issues.

Downtime sucks, but relatively speaking, it has been fairly minimal given that we are still just in the first couple of weeks. I expected that it could have been much worse and am thankful it was not.

Perhaps if people could find a way to celebrate downtime, in that each time it happens, hopefully a few more things get fixed, they would be able to be a little more Zen(imax).

dbennett707cub18_ESO · April 2014

The issue really stems from a comment from the Lead Dev who set the bar really high. I love this game but sometimes I wonder what they were thinking to promise such a "polished and lag-free experience." And more recently the last MMO I played was Guild Wars 2, which is essentially down never, even the patches are done live, all you need to do is restart your client.

Glurin · April 2014

True enough. I would add that people have also gotten used to these polished games and put an unreasonable expectation of having the same level of polish in ESO at this early stage of it's life, forgetting that these other MMOs had some rough starts themselves.

dbennett707cub18_ESO · April 2014

The thing is, these game exist in polished states and are already out there. WoW could get away with it because most MMO's weren't polished at the time. When you release a game, you need to compete with what is already out there currently, not how the current games were when they were released. There is a very high barrier to entry, and sometimes it feels like almost nobody is even taking notes from other launches.

kingsley2000_ESO · April 2014

I am happy that most of the time when I want to log in, I am able to. The maintenance is to be expected. I'm just glad to be able to play the game with few issues. For a launch, this isn't going to bad. The last MMO launch I played was FFXIV ARR. Being able to log in within the first month was almost impossible. But then if you did manage to log in most of the servers were full and you wouldn't be able to create a character. Even still there are quite a few servers on FFXIV that are locked and cant create a character.

Maxium · April 2014

The bottom line is this is 2014. Not 1999, not 2002, not 2006. Everyone keeps using the "it's just released" excuse to justifiy tons of bugs, maintenance and lack of communication from the support team.

The first 30 days of an MMO set the tone. It's their chance to shine and make an impression. So far, in two weeks, that hasn't gone so well. The actual game play itself is fun and creative (until you hit a quest that blocks your main story progression). The features of the game and the servers are awful. Everything from the Guild Store (which is a complete joke) to my 30 second delay in guild chat is pushing me more and more to just wait until Wildstar or the next WoW installment.

And if those 2 games can't get it right, then I'll move on to the Everquest Next. Eventually a game is going to do it right and LISTEN to the damn beta testers. That game will earn about $1800 from me for the next decade.

dbennett707cub18_ESO · April 2014

Alot of people myself included, have lost skillpoints, mounts, and every item on their character and from their banks, some people have lost their bank multiple times, and it is quite a lot of us. I wouldn't really call data integrity issues a smooth launch, I'd rather not be able to login than have all my progression deleted.

SonaBuvelle · April 2014

I mock it up to the fact all these people don't think have anything else to do. So they spend the down time complaining about it, instead of you know.. reading a book? You're already reading endless complaint posts why not read something exciting?

lfseeney_ESO · April 2014

Also buying servers from the lowest bidder is not a great idea.

Reevster · April 2014

And if those 2 games can't get it right, then I'll move on to the Everquest Next.

Ugh more cartoonish crap like WoW, looks more like a Disney cartoon movie then a good realistic MMO like ESO is.

Wolfster · April 2014

The impatience and intolerance would be solved if Zenimax were simply more communicative. They should implement even the most basic service level agreement: half-hourly updates and at least a high-level brief on the cause of the problem.

Customer service surrounding downtimes should simply be far better than it is, and it's a shame because their customer support service otherwise has been excellent for me.

Jankstar · April 2014

I think it is dangerous to grow complacent like this. They should push for the best experience, because they already have the biggest edge of best content. If they could pair that with best technical support, then they would create an amazing product, which means more TES games for me in the future.

That being said, some peoples expectations are just not in line with what they are doing. This just isn't wow, it is a different game and I don't think they should try am emulate it or any other MMO. Take components that are fun and work and fit, sure, but we don't need a copy of any existing MMO cause we already have that MMO.

LoneWalker · April 2014

A lot of truth in what you said OP, nobody enjoys downtimes but I don't see how they could be screwing with us! I'm glad there are maintenances and patch fixes and all that, means someone is actually taking care of the game I've come to love.

And about all this people complaining all the time? I take it for the SUCCESS this game is having.

AngryNord · April 2014

northernwolfb16_ESO wrote: »

The impatience and intolerance would be solved if Zenimax were simply more communicative. They should implement even the most basic service level agreement: half-hourly updates and at least a high-level brief on the cause of the problem.

Customer service surrounding downtimes should simply be far better than it is, and it's a shame because their customer support service otherwise has been excellent for me.

This

Negative39 · April 2014

Also, consider that the people that post here are a tiny vocal minority. The vast majority of people have never and will never use these forums so you have no idea how the 'player base' is reacting to downtime. The vast majority of people may well just smile, grab a coke and go outside for a few hours.

These forums can be so utterly ridiculous that I have seen that people have been arguing here about the game being available when the server has been up for half and hour but they've been so embroiled that they haven't noticed.

Also there are really only two main types of people that post here in general, and both of them scare me equally:

A) Those people that log on just to blow rose-scented air up the backsides of the devs, those who praise them and call on their fellow players to 'give the devs a break' because they are 'hard working men and women' etc. It's like they consider themselves the defenders of Devs' honour and virtue and just press ahead with their sycophantic, patronising regardless of its irrelevance.

Those people who do not understand that in the real world things do not always work as people plan and that 'sh*t happens'. They let unbelievable anger and bitterness pervade them. They feel like they simply have to let the world know just how much they are suffering because the availability of not of a computer game apparently stirs the same sort of rage in their soul as someone who had kidnapped their first born. Regardless of how irrelevant he issue actually is in the grand scheme of things.

dbennett707cub18_ESO · April 2014

I honestly don't even think customer support is to blame, they are probably twiddling their thumbs waiting for more information to pass on. Thing about this kind of nonsense is that the chain of information is only as strong as its weakest link. To this day I've never seen any level of transparency that compared with Sanya and the DAoC days, the server could lag for .0001 seconds and there would be a post about it on the herald within seconds.

kingsley2000_ESO · April 2014

When has their been a smooth launch in an MMO? Even past MMOs that were extremely popular had terrible starts. If you play a MMO at launch expect bugs, glitches, and downtime for maintenance. If you don't want any of that just wait a few months after release when a lot of it has been ironed out.

Maxium · April 2014

The reason people don't want to go "do something else" is because they shouldn't have to. They paid money for a completed product very recently. The product isn't complete. Calling people out, saying they should get a life and do something else, is kind of childish. They want what they have been waiting for, what they pre-ordered for and what they paid for.

Or maybe I should go buy a book that has chapters 2, 5, 8 and 12 missing? I shouldn't complain about that either right?

Glurin · April 2014

Maxium wrote: »

The bottom line is this is 2014. Not 1999, not 2002, not 2006. Everyone keeps using the "it's just released" excuse to justifiy tons of bugs, maintenance and lack of communication from the support team.

Nobody said that bugs or downtime isn't a bad thing. It's just unreasonable to expect a perfectly polished, maintenance free game from day one. Yes, even in 2014.

Wrekkoning · April 2014

Server should have gone down.. 14 god damn days ago. Then there would have been alot less bitching.

Randazzo · April 2014

northernwolfb16_ESO wrote: »

The impatience and intolerance would be solved if Zenimax were simply more communicative. They should implement even the most basic service level agreement: half-hourly updates and at least a high-level brief on the cause of the problem.

Customer service surrounding downtimes should simply be far better than it is, and it's a shame because their customer support service otherwise has been excellent for me.

They actually started communicate pretty well after being called out on it, and responded several times in a thread regarding this issue before. Turns out you can find the following in the Dev Tracker which addresses several issues:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ll be pushing a new patch during our regularly scheduled maintenance time tomorrow. The full patch notes will be available during the maintenance period, but we wanted to share the highlights with you now since they were a direct result of your feedback:
We have fixed issues with several quests that were blocking main quest progression. Those include Crossing the Chasm, Castle of the Worm, and The Army of Meridia.

We have fixed the issue with Liberation of Northpoint. The quest is now completable.

We have fixed several issues with Banished Cells that were making it uncompletable.

We have made many other quest fixes.

We have implemented many new things to thwart gold farmers, spammers, and botters.

In-Progress Updates
In addition to the fixes going live tomorrow, we want to give you a status update on some of the other hot issues we’re working on.

Missing Bank Slots, Stored Bank Items, and Skill Points – We're continuing to investigate the issue, and are working on a fix now. As soon as the fix is ready, we will push it out to the live megaservers. Please note: This may result in a second maintenance this week and when we do push the fix, it will not be retroactive. Know that we want to make this right for all impacted—we’re still exploring options to help those who have stored items/gold, and bank slots go missing.

Long Loading Times/Social Lag – Some people have been experiencing long loading times, guild chat lag, and other social systems lag, especially during peak times. We are aware of this and are actively investigating it. As soon as we have a fix, we will push it live.

Dungeon Treasure Chests – Based on feedback, we are changing treasure chests in instanced dungeons so that everyone gets a piece of loot regardless of who opens the chest. This change is currently being implemented and tested internally and will be released in a future patch as soon as it’s ready. Watch the patch notes for the news.

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.

Thank you for continuing to share your feedback and concerns with us. We’ll continue to read and listen, and update you on known issues and their status.

helgekhb16_ESO · April 2014

The game itself is great and probably the greatest that have been made even if there is some annoying bugs with it.
The big problem is is how slow the reactions have been towards those that are doing their best to ruin the game for other aka goldspammers and bots. Some of the replies from customer service that indicates they havnt even read the original message is also something that can make people very furious including me.
On a sidenote would also bee nice when people report harrasment from guilds or other players to actually send them a notice that it will be dealt with or not instead of the standard greeting message

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO · April 2014

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

The issue really stems from a comment from the Lead Dev who set the bar really high. What were they thinking to promise such a "polished and lag-free experience."

On top of that, they are charging big money for this game. So it better be polished. It's too easy to find reasons not to pay money for a game. So in order to keep people hooked they are going to have to improve their service.

Waiter! Waiter!

Nurse!

hexrune_ESO · April 2014

The problem is, video games have this unwritten clause allowing them to be crappy out of the gate and on for the first few months. People seem to accept basically paying for a beta AFTER release.

Alphashado · April 2014

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

The issue really stems from a comment from the Lead Dev who set the bar really high. I love this game but sometimes I wonder what they were thinking to promise such a "polished and lag-free experience." And more recently the last MMO I played was Guild Wars 2, which is essentially down never, even the patches are done live, all you need to do is restart your client.

GW2 was TERRIBLE at launch. It was absolutely loaded with bugs, bots, gold spammers, you name it. You couldn't get into rvr w/o 6 hour que times, Some of the main storyline quests were bugged and you couldn't progress the storyline at all for a couple weeks with some races. Box program farming bots were running around in packs of 6-10 farming mobs in droves. Chat channels were cluttered with gold spam. The auction house didn't work at all the first week after launch, and was often down for hours at a time in the weeks following launch, etc, etc. The forums were exploding with people yelling, screaming, ranting, raving, and threatening to quit.

So the fact that GW2 runs so smooth today is the exact reason why all of you guys are overreacting. It is a perfect example of what a normal MMO goes through at launch. In time all of these bugs and issue will be addressed, so just have some patience, relax, and enjoy the game.

Wolfster · April 2014

Randazzo wrote: »

northernwolfb16_ESO wrote: »

The impatience and intolerance would be solved if Zenimax were simply more communicative. They should implement even the most basic service level agreement: half-hourly updates and at least a high-level brief on the cause of the problem.

Customer service surrounding downtimes should simply be far better than it is, and it's a shame because their customer support service otherwise has been excellent for me.

They actually started communicate pretty well after being called out on it, and responded several times in a thread regarding this issue before. Turns out you can find the following in the Dev Tracker which addresses several issues:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ll be pushing a new patch during our regularly scheduled maintenance time tomorrow. The full patch notes will be available during the maintenance period, but we wanted to share the highlights with you now since they were a direct result of your feedback:
We have fixed issues with several quests that were blocking main quest progression. Those include Crossing the Chasm, Castle of the Worm, and The Army of Meridia.

We have fixed the issue with Liberation of Northpoint. The quest is now completable.

We have fixed several issues with Banished Cells that were making it uncompletable.

We have made many other quest fixes.

We have implemented many new things to thwart gold farmers, spammers, and botters.

In-Progress Updates
In addition to the fixes going live tomorrow, we want to give you a status update on some of the other hot issues we’re working on.

Missing Bank Slots, Stored Bank Items, and Skill Points – We're continuing to investigate the issue, and are working on a fix now. As soon as the fix is ready, we will push it out to the live megaservers. Please note: This may result in a second maintenance this week and when we do push the fix, it will not be retroactive. Know that we want to make this right for all impacted—we’re still exploring options to help those who have stored items/gold, and bank slots go missing.

Long Loading Times/Social Lag – Some people have been experiencing long loading times, guild chat lag, and other social systems lag, especially during peak times. We are aware of this and are actively investigating it. As soon as we have a fix, we will push it live.

Dungeon Treasure Chests – Based on feedback, we are changing treasure chests in instanced dungeons so that everyone gets a piece of loot regardless of who opens the chest. This change is currently being implemented and tested internally and will be released in a future patch as soon as it’s ready. Watch the patch notes for the news.

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.

Thank you for continuing to share your feedback and concerns with us. We’ll continue to read and listen, and update you on known issues and their status.

That's dandy and all, but it's not where they specifically instructed us to look for updates and information.

It also does not address the concerns in my post.

nickroc · April 2014

i didnt read this *** fest.

Oblongship · April 2014

Oh no its totally a smart idea to make posts like this...

You are no better than them and are just trying to start a fight.

Alphashado · April 2014

Negative39 wrote: »

Also, consider that the people that post here are a tiny vocal minority. The vast majority of people have never and will never use these forums so you have no idea how the 'player base' is reacting to downtime. The vast majority of people may well just smile, grab a coke and go outside for a few hours.

These forums can be so utterly ridiculous that I have seen that people have been arguing here about the game being available when the server has been up for half and hour but they've been so embroiled that they haven't noticed.

Also there are really only two main types of people that post here in general, and both of them scare me equally:

A) Those people that log on just to blow rose-scented air up the backsides of the devs, those who praise them and call on their fellow players to 'give the devs a break' because they are 'hard working men and women' etc. It's like they consider themselves the defenders of Devs' honour and virtue and just press ahead with their sycophantic, patronising regardless of its irrelevance.

Those people who do not understand that in the real world things do not always work as people plan and that 'sh*t happens'. They let unbelievable anger and bitterness pervade them. They feel like they simply have to let the world know just how much they are suffering because the availability of not of a computer game apparently stirs the same sort of rage in their soul as someone who had kidnapped their first born. Regardless of how irrelevant he issue actually is in the grand scheme of things.

So which of the two are you then?

Randazzo · April 2014

"northernwolfb16_ESO wrote: »

That's dandy and all, but it's not where they specifically instructed us to look for updates and information.

It also does not address the concerns in my post.

Yes, it actually does if you add a dose of reality to your demands. No company is going to give you half-hourly updates or high-level technical briefs on issues.

You're just choosing to continue to pout.