Magwarden...

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

I would just like to get a few things off my chest regarding the treatment of magden. Bear in mind im a level 50 G.O. pvper and most of my comments will be about that.

I was supper hyped about playing a warden at their launch.
We've had so much utility and fun skills taken away from us since its release and now all this talk of "class identity" is a bit of an insult considering.
Also a lot of the "pain points" the warden has had since release are still a present, and i'd like to share mine.

Original dive / cliff racer was delayed to time perfectly with fissure and force pulse and was undodgeable. weather this was considered OP or not is irrelevant, the way zos changed the skill has resulted in the magden loosing 2 class identifying things. an undodgeable damaging skill and a timed burst skill. Just off the top of my head why wasn't something like an increased cost applied to eveytime you spam cliff racer or a cost to health instead as the cliff racer got annoyed at you for constantly being summoned.
( i have a bit of a theory about why this skill was so overloaded when it came out, the old bait and switch comes to mind )

Deep fissure. the aoe that had a single target stun, the only aoe that had a single target stun in the game, the stun was removed and again no compensation.
How am i supposed to 1vx anyone with no stun - oh yea weapon skill lines - use clench and masters staff. Zos nerfs clench. cheers zos. guess ill use vampire drain then and try to weapon swap animation cancel the stun, cuz' that always works.

After the outcry from the warden community of "please zos let us have a stun" a year later we got the awful thing that is Arctic blast, And next patch looks like we're just getting something equally dumb that will serve to only give my enemy CC immunity before i'm ready to kill.

The warden community has been asking for an execute to be tied to Fetcher Infection instead of the 50% increase to damage every second cast.
This is real pain in any fight and cannot be used to its full potential at all as it can be dodged just like all skills. so ill take whatever i can land, if its the 50% more on or not, not to mention its impossible to keep track of, with all the other warden buffs and glowy things about my person, seeing a little fly rotating around my arms while in ice fortress rotating skills / buffs LOS and dodging my enemies attacks. if im on the 50% more or less one i don't care, its irrelevant to me as its just RNG at this stage.

Natures Embrace - so buggy its a laugh.

Tree ulti is advertised as an instant cast yet its constanlty being inturupted, so i just resto ult instead.

So many of the skills have hidden cast times as the warden has to many fancy animations it prioritises.

The bear is super cool, its just terrible for open world pvp. the summon animation is WAY TO LONG the pet vanishes mid fight and wont come back for weeks, and when you cast the ulti you will be charged for it and no damage will hit your target. This needs a teliport on it so if the bear has left fight and gone to the pub again, or is trapped behind a rock 100 meters away, or scared of the stairs inside a tower, the teleport on the ulti cast will bring it back to you.

Also no bear skinns ? WHUUUUT Common ZoS lets have some pet skins please thankyou love you cheers.

I just feel my magden has become very hard to play and enjoy solo as i lack the utility i had at the start and it appears that zos are moving the class further away from where i would like it to be.
i wonder if other classes feel this as bad, imagine if they took all stuns off the DK, maybe left you with talons. if they took fear off the magblade and the stun from cripple etc. you see where im going with this, anyway.

Thanks for reading i just had to have a vent.

Cerotonin · October 2019

Okay, but Blue Betty and Bull Netch are cute.

I’ve seen some people that are able to solo on a MagWarden. I do wish they had a better CC than the Arctic Blast. The class does really well in groups though so it isn’t all bad.

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

CeroSerotonin wrote: »

Okay, but Blue Betty and Bull Netch are cute.

I’ve seen some people that are able to solo on a MagWarden. I do wish they had a better CC than the Arctic Blast. The class does really well in groups though so it isn’t all bad.

lol yea they are, i do ok still but we lack the utility specifically regarding a stun that we need.

The class dose well in groups isnt a selling point though, as i play solo pvp.

Pauls · October 2019

At least you can easy take resources solo, meh..

MartiniDaniels · October 2019

Yeah, ZOS takes away ton of class defining things because "they are OP" or hard-counters and then rolls out Ball of Lightning on PTS with:
- aoe stun
- 3 seconds of projectile immunity
- 2 seconds of snare/immobilization immunity
- gap closer/disengage tool 2in1
All of of it for moderate cost.

OP, this game is called Elder (mag)Sorcs Online, just get used to it. Any other class may have an edge or effective combo for 1 patch and then will be hastily nerfed, this is how this game works.

max_only · October 2019

Pauls wrote: »

At least you can easy take resources solo, meh..

You can take resources solo on other classes. Those are just npcs.

The_Lex · October 2019

Pauls wrote: »

At least you can easy take resources solo, meh..

PvE and PvDoor are pretty easy regardless of class or gear.

ZarkingFrued · October 2019

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

i would just like to get a few things off my chest regarding the treatment of magden. Bear in mind im a level 50 G.O. pvper and most of my comments will be about that.

I was supper hyped about playing a warden at their launch.
We've had so much utility and fun skills taken away from us since its release and now all this talk of "class identity" is a bit of an insult considering.
Also a lot of the "pain points" the warden has had since release are still a present, and i'd like to share mine.

Original dive / cliff racer was delayed to time perfectly with fissure and force pulse and was undodgeable. weather this was considered OP or not is irrelevant, the was zos changed the skill would result in the magden loosing 2 class identifying things. an undodgeable damaging skill and a timed burst skill. Just off the top of my head why wasn't something like an increased cost applied to eveytime you spam cliff racer or a cost to health instead as the cliff racer got annoyed at you for constantly being summoned.
( i have a bit of a theory about why this skill was so overloaded when it came out, the old bait and switch comes to mind )

Deep fissure. the aoe that had a single target stun, the only aoe that had a single target stun in the game, the stun was removed and again no compensation.
How am i supposed to 1vx anyone with no stun - oh yea weapon skill lines - use clench and masters staff. Zos nerfs clench. cheers zos. guess ill use vampire drain then and try to weapon swap animation cancel the stun, cuz' thats always works.

After the outcry from the warden community of "please zos let us have a stun" a year later we got the awful thing that is Arctic blast, And next patch looks like we're just getting something equally dumb that will serve to only give my enemy CC immunity before i'm ready to kill.

The warden community has been asking for an execute to be tied to Fetcher Infection instead of the 50% increase to damage every second cast.
This is real pain in any fight and cannot be used to its full potential at all as it can be dodged just like all skills. so ill take whatever i can land, if its the 50% more on or not, not to mention its impossible to keep track of, with all the other warden buffs and glowy things about my person, seeing a little fly rotating around my arms while in ice fortress rotating skills / buffs LOS and dodging my enemies attacks. if im on the 50% more or less one i don't care, its irrelevant to me as its just RNG at this stage.

Natures Embrace - so buggy its a laugh.

Also no bear skinns ? WHUUUUT Common ZoS lets have some pet skins please thankyou love you cheers.

I just feel my magden has become very hard to play and enjkoy solo as i lack the utility i had at the start and it appears that zos are moving the class further away from where i would like it to be.
i wonder if other classes feel this as bad, imagine if they took all stuns off the DK, maybe left you with talons. if they took fear off the magblade and the stun from cripple etc. you see where im going with this, anyway.

Thanks for reading i just had to have a vent.

MagDK has no burst period unless you use flame lash which requires 3 skills prior to get any damage out of(compare this to frags proc which is up all the time) so most run powerlash as really the heal is massively needed since you have to stand and deliver melee ranged dots to kill anyone, becomes impossible to do outnumbered. Zos hates 1vx. They are doing everything they can to remove it from the game.

People are literally acting like Arctic blast is gonna be OP when it's just a garbage bomber skill. You cant rely on that. Compare arctic blast to what Toppling charge does in the tooltip, and what that procs from Templar passives just for using an already overloaded skill. No comparison period. Templar=2 ranged dots-> gap close and stun plus offbalance with toppling charge->broken Templar ulti->you really shouldn't even need jabs at this point but why not? They heal you right?

Then get on Magden, and you can throw a hard to track and dodgable dot, load beetles and watch people just move out of the way unless you slot Vamp drain for stun instead of the class spammable which is awful. Junk.

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

For solo PVP i would chose MagDK anyday over Magwarden.

SipofMaim · October 2019

No, the other classes don't feel that bad. Your class is thin on magicka damage skills, and you live or die with every change they make to them, as the destro staff can't by any stretch of the imagination fill in for whatever they take away, or didn't give you in the first place. None of the original classes' magicka DDs are that fragile. At least, not yet.

Stamden wouldn't be faring very well either if they only had bows for weapons.

But you've got the heals. And the group buffs. I guess that's their plan for magden.

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

SipofMaim wrote: »

No, the other classes don't feel that bad. Your class is thin on magicka damage skills, and you live or die with every change they make to them, as the destro staff can't by any stretch of the imagination fill in for whatever they take away, or didn't give you in the first place. None of the original classes' magicka DDs are that fragile. At least, not yet.

Stamden wouldn't be faring very well either if they only had bows for weapons.

But you've got the heals. And the group buffs. I guess that's their plan for magden.

I hear ya, Its just not really a good selling point saying "this is a group utility / support class" that's basically admitting defeat and saying, oh we cant balance it.
Also and most importantly i didn't sign up for a support class, The magden was never good for solo pvp, but it was a lot better and thats what i signed up for thinking it would only get better, but it got worse, and now people say, oh the magden only works in a group... because it has nothing but that stupid permafrost, aoe defile and minor toughness.

FrancisCrawford · October 2019

If memory serves, my PvE magblade got 5 of her top 6 skills nerfed in one patch. THAT was a gutting.

Iskiab · October 2019

I don’t think you can make a good point about asking for a buff so you can 1vX. It makes it sound like you want to be overpowered.

The goal of the devs is to make each class just as powerful. 1vX implies you’re more powerful than multiple opponents.

I’d reframe your argument with risk/reward and skilled play. Asking to have every tool in the game won’t get far.

I’ve also noticed every class has a weakness, likely by design. DKs are sustain, NBs self healing, Sorc you have to be a sorc, etc... so having everything is out of reach I think.

LeHarrt91 · October 2019

Dive was made dodgeable because it could be spammed with no consequences. The Delay was removed as the skill was crap in pve. (still should be sped up)

The stun was removed from Deep Fissue because as they didnt want hgih burst and CC, the stun was removed Frags for the same reason.... tho Javelin now ignores resistances hmm..

I agree our stun choices have basically been completely removed, 6m stun which required 3 consecutive hits wont work for MagDens.

I use Resto Ulti over Trees due to its issues casting, plus Resto is mobile so i can LoS.

Dont use bear in pvp unless in a group, its useless. Storm and Resto are better for solo.

I main a MagDen in PvP atm and yes its hard to solo but still achievable.

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

Of course i'm not asking to be over powered, i'm not actually asking for anything. my point was clear that there has been no compensation for the removal of class identifying skills, and still the same "pain points" are being ignored or over looked.

This is the same problem zos has when a skill is viewed as over performing, they either gut it or increase the cost.

Why a skill was nerfed or not is irrelevant. More care should be taken to retain the original vision and idea of the class.
we cant now.. 2 years into the the warden start saying its a support class.

LeHarrt91 · October 2019

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Of course i'm not asking to be over powered, i'm not actually asking for anything. my point was clear that there has been no compensation for the removal of class identifying skills, and still the same "pain points" are being ignored or over looked.

This is the same problem zos has when a skill is viewed as over performing, they either gut it or increase the cost.

Why a skill was nerfed or not is irrelevant. More care should be taken to retain the original vision and idea of the class.
we cant now.. 2 years into the the warden start saying its a support class.

For sure certain pain points are not being addressed, which sucks but we are finally getting some attention which is nice. There are still a couple of weeks of pts left. So hopefully we get a good stun.

Squidgaurd · October 2019

They should just un nerf shock clench. That change *** anyone that farmed a masters lightning and plus they have the other morph that they can turn into a bastatrdized aoe.

LeHarrt91 · October 2019

Yeah i would be ok with a damage nerf to Shock Clench but the stun needs to come back.

Iskiab · October 2019

Clench isn’t the best but it’s still better than other abilities like the NB fear. That vampire drain’s another option but I haven’t messed around with it much.

UrbanMonk · October 2019

As a Magden main in PvP, I'm at a absolute loss after the change to Arctic Blast.
This was the last of range stun after clench got gutted. I'd rather now use Vamp Drain instead of Arctic Blast.
Damage of Fetcher was good but that also got gutted for about 30-40% after the recent changes.
Passive loss of 8% mag adds another 3_4% damage reduction.
Birds are as awful as they were always.
For a Solo Magden, PvP was somewhat doable in 1v1 scenario and next patch it's only going to get worse.

DisgracefulMind · October 2019

Legit big reason that I quit after playing since beta was because of the treatment of magden, and it really never gets better

I don't entirely miss anything in ESO, but I do miss duo magdens with my badger

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Of course i'm not asking to be over powered, i'm not actually asking for anything. my point was clear that there has been no compensation for the removal of class identifying skills, and still the same "pain points" are being ignored or over looked.

This is the same problem zos has when a skill is viewed as over performing, they either gut it or increase the cost.

Why a skill was nerfed or not is irrelevant. More care should be taken to retain the original vision and idea of the class.
we cant now.. 2 years into the the warden start saying its a support class.

For sure certain pain points are not being addressed, which sucks but we are finally getting some attention which is nice. There are still a couple of weeks of pts left. So hopefully we get a good stun.

Highly unlikely - I used to think like this as well, watching every PTS thinking, oh next week they'll announce some great change to address that horrible issue but.. never happens. Their resource's seem to be wasted on doing nothing but TAKING YEARS! to alter the cost of the same skill 5 times.
So if anything warden related will change in the upcoming PTS note, mark my words it'll be a cost change.

Squidgaurd · October 2019

Bruh just give us that stun back on clench.

Starlight_Knight · October 2019

Squidgaurd wrote: »

Bruh just give us that stun back on clench.

Its not just about the stun, but the lack of stun is a result of the mistreatment we're having.

Squidgaurd · October 2019

Give us shock clench vamp drain is trash.

LeHarrt91 · October 2019

Squidgaurd wrote: »

Give us shock clench vamp drain is trash.

Shock Clench and a reliable class stun. All the previous Arctic Blast needed was some sort of damage (and a slightly quicker animation)

Squidgaurd · October 2019

Or just improve vamp drain and make it a decent low dmg instant long ranged - mid range stun or a mages guild skill like volcano rune. So we dont have to go vamp and acept getting fooked by mag dk's in order to have a stun.

Squidgaurd · October 2019

This way other mag classes get a universal stun like stamurna.

theyancey · October 2019

Not a PvPeep so I can't help you there. I PvE only. Of my 10 toons my magden is my favorite. Rolled a necro but found it to be less than appealing. So back to my magden. To give her something new I had her infected with vampirism. My vamp mageden is now my all time favorite ESO character.

Somber97866 · October 2019

Another problem ( pve ) is the bear should've been designed to do it's damage from like 3meters away.
Its the bane of DPS and tanks trying to target adds and failing bc you cannot target through a pet.
Plus the swipes ( the big one) CC's adds so you cannot chain them in.
To many design flaws for group play pve, in my opinion

Somber97866 · October 2019

Also, their main ulti needed a morph that would be able to cast from long range and it doesn't. Now they have totally ruined it in pve bc the only reason anyone ever ran it ( endgame) was bc of the 8% Maxx magic.
The devs really need to get with actual players and LISTEN to what they say!
Bad management, sorry if it seems harsh to say but it's true