All sales are final.

VaranisArano · October 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Considering the player saying that is Nestor, I have no trouble beliving them.

Neither do I, but that is not really the point, is it?

No subject is ever "settled", or "closed".

Everyone has a right to their opinion and a right to express that opinion, on here.

I know that is annoying, if you want to sit it out, but feel you have to come on here and defend your position, yet again, but still.

Perhaps try to see it from both sides?

It's not like it's one of those situations where one group is trying to take away something, from another group, just out of spite.

There are valid points to be made, here and pros and cons on both sides.

The reason we come here to defend our opinions (on both sides) again and again is because until the Devs say it publicly in a nice sound bite, its not settled. (And even that won't settle it - they've said they arent doing Faction Change Tokens, and folks still ask for that on a regular basis.)

You remember how we got faction locks? Its because the no-faction-lock side stopped arguing, and the pro-faction-lock side kept asking for it. So just walking away (on either side) is a bad idea.

Hence the irritation, on both sides, at rehashing the same arguments again and again.

So no, I don't expect anything to settle this argument. Not even the Devs themselves, judging by how this forums reacts by asking even for things they've clearly said they aren't doing. So until then, its completely worthwhile to argue in support of our sides, even though its the same arguments we make on a monthly basis.

I mostly spoke up because I was the one who asked Nestor for the quote on the other thread, and I felt that referring to him as "someone" claiming the devs said it was eliding a lot of his credibility as a source, whether deliberately or by accident. I wanted to clarify that particular matter.

MLGProPlayer · October 2019

This could actually help combat bots as they would be forced to sell their own wares in guild stores, versus selling them to resellers. That would make them much easier to catch as the player listing the 2000 gold tempers a week is clearly not farming them legitimately.

But unfortunately, this would also completely kill the concept of flipping, which is the endgame for a lot of people. So that won't work.

VaranisArano · October 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Personally, what would really make the current system better is requiring the servers to track every item I buy and keep a running 10 or 11 day countdown on when I can resell it.

Especially the hundred intricate items I bought to decon, the mats I bought for my own use in future writs, and those super cheap motifs I bought during the Anniversary festival figuring prices will go up slightly in another 6 months.

Oh, and it won't even cut down on the overall profit margin, just the immediate profits of the reseller. Any reseller patient enough to wait two weeks can carry on business like usual.

Yes, this will definitely make the trading system better. All the wasted effort is 100% worth it, since players can't be expected to check average prices for certain items in their guilds before selling it. Its dedinitely won't have any harmful inpact on the servers whatsoever.
(No, I don't currently use addons for selling or buying on PC.)

At best, this would only have a measurable effect during the times you see obvious price gouging, like during the first hours of an event or newly released content. Even then, everyone sensible knows that prices will plummet if you wait a couple days to a couple of weeks. Impatient players always pay more.

it sounds like it would be an effective measure to combat what some coin as "market manipulation" when a player buys low and then sells high. So it's an interesting idea that would likely be effective. Therefore I wouldn't oppose it, since this seems to be a concern for so many players even if I myself am indifferent on the matter.

HOw do you check average prices without addons by the way? Do you really run around checking dozens and dozens of guild stores till you find enough of them selling a rare motif and then average out the price?

Since you asked, I check the average prices at my guild stores, which is pretty easy to do when I'm at the bank to sell my items. I did that before the new item search existed, but that made it quicker. Motifs are pretty easy since certain sets tend to cluster at certain price points. I find that rare gear is harder to price, and there I might check prices at the various capital guilds in between shopping there for other items I want, but even there I usually only sell a couple sets and once I've done the research, the average price is easy to track without much effort based on how quick my pieces are selling.

Its not as precise as checking dozens of stores or as quick using add-ons, but I don't need to be precise or eke out every bit of profit. I just need my items to sell in a reasonable amount of time from my guild stores, without taking a huge amount of time to price my items.

It works for me. Checking my guild stores is a good way to set a good price to sell, or check for bargains to buy from my guildies and keep the profit "in-house" as it were, while not taking me too long.

If you prefer a super quick sell time, want to eke out every bit of profit, or don't like spending at least some time shopping, I don't expect it to work well for you. Oh well, you asked how I check prices without add-ons on PC - that's how, and I sell enough that I'm happy.

Jeremy · October 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Personally, what would really make the current system better is requiring the servers to track every item I buy and keep a running 10 or 11 day countdown on when I can resell it.

Especially the hundred intricate items I bought to decon, the mats I bought for my own use in future writs, and those super cheap motifs I bought during the Anniversary festival figuring prices will go up slightly in another 6 months.

Oh, and it won't even cut down on the overall profit margin, just the immediate profits of the reseller. Any reseller patient enough to wait two weeks can carry on business like usual.

Yes, this will definitely make the trading system better. All the wasted effort is 100% worth it, since players can't be expected to check average prices for certain items in their guilds before selling it. Its dedinitely won't have any harmful inpact on the servers whatsoever.
(No, I don't currently use addons for selling or buying on PC.)

At best, this would only have a measurable effect during the times you see obvious price gouging, like during the first hours of an event or newly released content. Even then, everyone sensible knows that prices will plummet if you wait a couple days to a couple of weeks. Impatient players always pay more.

it sounds like it would be an effective measure to combat what some coin as "market manipulation" when a player buys low and then sells high. So it's an interesting idea that would likely be effective. Therefore I wouldn't oppose it, since this seems to be a concern for so many players even if I myself am indifferent on the matter.

HOw do you check average prices without addons by the way? Do you really run around checking dozens and dozens of guild stores till you find enough of them selling a rare motif and then average out the price?

Since you asked, I check the average prices at my guild stores, which is pretty easy to do when I'm at the bank to sell my items. I did that before the new item search existed, but that made it quicker. Motifs are pretty easy since certain sets tend to cluster at certain price points. I find that rare gear is harder to price, and there I might check prices at the various capital guilds in between shopping there for other items I want, but even there I usually only sell a couple sets and once I've done the research, the average price is easy to track without much effort based on how quick my pieces are selling.

Its not as precise as checking dozens of stores or as quick using add-ons, but I don't need to be precise or eke out every bit of profit. I just need my items to sell in a reasonable amount of time from my guild stores, without taking a huge amount of time to price my items.

It works for me. Checking my guild stores is a good way to set a good price to sell, or check for bargains to buy from my guildies and keep the profit "in-house" as it were, while not taking me too long.

If you prefer a super quick sell time, want to eke out every bit of profit, or don't like spending at least some time shopping, I don't expect it to work well for you. Oh well, you asked how I check prices without add-ons on PC - that's how, and I sell enough that I'm happy.

So you use your guild stores as a reference. I see.

I suppose that could work if you belong to enough guilds with lively markets that actually have the motifs or gear you are trying to sell up to use as a guide. But that's a big if for a lot of us, including myself.

wolfie1.0. · October 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

LOL, no it doesn't. It takes 2+ hours now to check every trader if you are looking for an obscure or hard-to-get item. At the very least, guild traders should be centrally searchable. If they finally implemented this search function, they should also let you put a deposit (10% or whatever) to hold the item for an hour so you have time to travel to the trader.

That would circumvent one of the protections that the current system offers the players. If you could search centrally and lock the items, one could simply search for all the cornflower, put their deposit down, and stop anyone who was 2 minutes behind them from acquiring any at all.

daemonios wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

"Works fine for me" does not equal "works fine". Clearly, judging from "these ppl with the AH threads", it doesn't "work fine" for everyone, not even close. Trading is very unlikely to change now, but these threads are just as legitimate as the dozens of "nerf this" threads that routinely come up.

That's an incredibly low standard to measure something by.

Who could afford to lose 10% of the selling price of all Cornflower in the guild stores just to troll?

To answer your question, I likely could, and if I couldn't then I might try and it wouldn't be to troll it would be an attempt to corner the market and I wouldn't be the only one.

idk · October 2019

.

Tigerseye wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Considering the player saying that is Nestor, I have no trouble beliving them.

Neither do I, but that is not really the point, is it?

No subject is ever "settled", or "closed".

Everyone has a right to their opinion and a right to express that opinion, on here.

I know that is annoying, if you want to sit it out, but feel you have to come on here and defend your position, yet again, but still.

Perhaps try to see it from both sides?

It's not like it's one of those situations where one group is trying to take away something, from another group, just out of spite.

There are valid points to be made, here and pros and cons on both sides.

Yes but some get a little sensitive when someone does not agree with their opinion. Heck, I have had people argue with statements that are nothing more than pointing out what Zos has indicated previously. It is funny.

VaranisArano · October 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Personally, what would really make the current system better is requiring the servers to track every item I buy and keep a running 10 or 11 day countdown on when I can resell it.

Especially the hundred intricate items I bought to decon, the mats I bought for my own use in future writs, and those super cheap motifs I bought during the Anniversary festival figuring prices will go up slightly in another 6 months.

Oh, and it won't even cut down on the overall profit margin, just the immediate profits of the reseller. Any reseller patient enough to wait two weeks can carry on business like usual.

Yes, this will definitely make the trading system better. All the wasted effort is 100% worth it, since players can't be expected to check average prices for certain items in their guilds before selling it. Its dedinitely won't have any harmful inpact on the servers whatsoever.
(No, I don't currently use addons for selling or buying on PC.)

At best, this would only have a measurable effect during the times you see obvious price gouging, like during the first hours of an event or newly released content. Even then, everyone sensible knows that prices will plummet if you wait a couple days to a couple of weeks. Impatient players always pay more.

it sounds like it would be an effective measure to combat what some coin as "market manipulation" when a player buys low and then sells high. So it's an interesting idea that would likely be effective. Therefore I wouldn't oppose it, since this seems to be a concern for so many players even if I myself am indifferent on the matter.

HOw do you check average prices without addons by the way? Do you really run around checking dozens and dozens of guild stores till you find enough of them selling a rare motif and then average out the price?

Since you asked, I check the average prices at my guild stores, which is pretty easy to do when I'm at the bank to sell my items. I did that before the new item search existed, but that made it quicker. Motifs are pretty easy since certain sets tend to cluster at certain price points. I find that rare gear is harder to price, and there I might check prices at the various capital guilds in between shopping there for other items I want, but even there I usually only sell a couple sets and once I've done the research, the average price is easy to track without much effort based on how quick my pieces are selling.

Its not as precise as checking dozens of stores or as quick using add-ons, but I don't need to be precise or eke out every bit of profit. I just need my items to sell in a reasonable amount of time from my guild stores, without taking a huge amount of time to price my items.

It works for me. Checking my guild stores is a good way to set a good price to sell, or check for bargains to buy from my guildies and keep the profit "in-house" as it were, while not taking me too long.

If you prefer a super quick sell time, want to eke out every bit of profit, or don't like spending at least some time shopping, I don't expect it to work well for you. Oh well, you asked how I check prices without add-ons on PC - that's how, and I sell enough that I'm happy.

So you use your guild stores as a reference. I see.

I suppose that could work if you belong to enough guilds with lively markets that actually have the motifs or gear you are trying to sell up to use as a guide. But that's a big if for a lot of us, including myself.

At the height of my trading, I was in three active trading guilds. The key thing is, I never view myself as competing with everyone else in the game - in large part because I never used TTC, ever. I'm competing with my guildmates, and what most people look at is how my prices stack up with my guildmates.

If you can't compare yourself to your guildmates for a decent price, I'd recommend going to a larger city and checking out prices in a couple of the larger guilds, then pricing accordingly. It'll take about the same time. I mostly sell mats, so those are commonly available for comparison in most guilds. As I said, I'll check capital city guilds for gear or motifs if needed.

One of the reasons I learned to look at what my guildmates or other guilds were pricing items is that when I started to trade, I didnt bother with add-ons or with checking out other prices. I was selling Columbine for 20 gold each.

Some kind guildie told me the actual selling price and started me off on the path to my current fortune.

As designed, it takes a little time to play the market. I don't regard Add-ons as necessary, but I see why PC players might struggle with not using the advantages that Add-ons give. Once you get used to the speed and precision of Addons, its hard to go back to actually doing your own quick research and making your own pricing decisions. I do fine, largely because I learned to do it without addons first.

If ZOS can get a handle on the server issues, I think making something like MM into a base game function while removing other trading add-ons like TTC would be a good way to handle it. MM preserves the "guild-central" focus of ESO's trading system and doesn't allow for the same level of "sniping" or price gouging that TTC does. It just wouldn't satisfy the Auction House crowd, who really want TTC turned up to 11.

wolfie1.0. · October 2019

InvictusApollo wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Then lets just make it tradeable through personal contact - problem solved.

bmnoble wrote: »

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

What about people like me? People whose luck attribute is so low that we literally make mathematicians question the probability theory. I'm sorry but I can't farm for 100h just to get the piece that I need. I have to buy it from the store.
As for farming materials it is ridden with bots.
I think that preventing wares from being resold is a great idea that would stop millionaires from artificially increasing prices.

It wont stop people from relisting items. And not only that it would have the opposite effect than intended. It just means that it will take longer for the market to recover from a buyout and there will be long periods over which some mats will be scarce. I mean if this were implemented I would buy all corn flower I could find on a Thursday and then list all of the cornflower existing in my craft bag at a higher price. Oh ya you see you forgot about the craft bag, ya know that infinite bag of material holding. All this would do is put mat sales on a schedule and allow more market manipulation. It would also penalize players that dont use craft bags because they cant resell the mats they buy and dont use.

VaranisArano · October 2019

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Then lets just make it tradeable through personal contact - problem solved.

bmnoble wrote: »

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

What about people like me? People whose luck attribute is so low that we literally make mathematicians question the probability theory. I'm sorry but I can't farm for 100h just to get the piece that I need. I have to buy it from the store.
As for farming materials it is ridden with bots.
I think that preventing wares from being resold is a great idea that would stop millionaires from artificially increasing prices.

It wont stop people from relisting items. And not only that it would have the opposite effect than intended. It just means that it will take longer for the market to recover from a buyout and there will be long periods over which some mats will be scarce. I mean if this were implemented I would buy all corn flower I could find on a Thursday and then list all of the cornflower existing in my craft bag at a higher price. Oh ya you see you forgot about the craft bag, ya know that infinite bag of material holding. All this would do is put mat sales on a schedule and allow more market manipulation. It would also penalize players that dont use craft bags because they cant resell the mats they buy and dont use.

Its an interesting thought.

This suggestion would prevent sudden bursts of market manipulation, like what happened last year after Summerfall when ZOS gave everyone the new Psijic House. Demand surged, and housing mat prices surged sky-high. Reselling was very profitable. So this suggestion would help with that sort of opportunistic reselling.

What it wouldnt help with is the more run of the mill price gouging we see with rare items.
For example, on PC/NA we briefly had someone buying up all the Minotuar chest motofs and reselling for 150k. This wouldnt stop that, only delay their profit. It wouldnt stop them at all if they thought ahead - I know a number of sellers bought housing mats cheap well in advance of the Summerfall house who made an absolute killing on reselling afterwards.

It also wouldnt help in the hypothetical case of the Cornflower. As you say, the system allows for the seller to create artificial shortages for an even longer period of time, as long as they have money to keep picking up Cornflower as fast as possible. The lessening supply drives up demand, and so the profiteer (or consortium of profiteers, depending on how conspiracy minded you want to be) actually benefits from the no-resell period. Some players would be able to avoid the price hike going of their own reserves, but new players would either suffer or have to farm it themselves.

Basically, once we move beyond opportunistic reselling and into the "deliberately playing the market" type reselling, a 10-day delay just becomes part of the market and can be used to create even more market manipulation. Especially when it impacts pretty much everything that can be sold.

So I'm really struggling to see the benefit of slapping pretty much everything sold on the server with a 10-day resell counter. The servers already struggle with guild store queries as it is.

Darkenarlol · October 2019

the trading system is fine as it is

l2t (learn to trade) and gitrich

bmnoble · October 2019

InvictusApollo wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Then lets just make it tradeable through personal contact - problem solved.

bmnoble wrote: »

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

What about people like me? People whose luck attribute is so low that we literally make mathematicians question the probability theory. I'm sorry but I can't farm for 100h just to get the piece that I need. I have to buy it from the store.
As for farming materials it is ridden with bots.
I think that preventing wares from being resold is a great idea that would stop millionaires from artificially increasing prices.

Problem with that theory is its not re-sellers inflating gear prices, certain gear sells for a high price, people just copy what the MM sales price is in their guilds, or look up what the online guides are saying is the next must have gear set and setting high prices.

The only time someone prices something stupidly low is if they have not bothered to look into the price, or is after a quick sale, it does not take millionaires to beat you to that item, more often than not its someone looking on TTC to buy that set piece than a re-seller.

Ysbriel · October 2019

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

That also would make the price each vendor sells their items, their opinion but then again. The practice of flipping the practice also screws over the customer who agreed with the better priced opinion. The is no control established whatsoever and the same time you might consider it to be foolish to hold on to items for someone else might be the same time another person’s burden as well to get an item at a good price. There is a difference in between wholesale and retail price. Flipping prices do not fall into that unless you want to tell me your local grocery store buys retail grocery items from the competition to sell it at a higher price. The way the traders work you are also already a supplier for that particular trading guild. If you put it into a trader perspective as well you will have another trader screwing over your business since how acquiring the stall works your guild might had sales but will also require lots of gold in “donations” to make the bid. The lack of set trading controls is unhealthy for the marketplace.

SirDopey · October 2019

Ruinhorn wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

How about the fact you can exchange a carrot for 3 metal rubedite cuirasses?
Life in Tamriel was never easy.

Hooowwwwww?????

But I agree, amount of times you see something listed on TTC for a reasonable price and its gone in a few minutes because some gold seller is buying and relisting things to drive up the pirce is pretty frustrating.

Ysbriel · October 2019

For some of you confused about the intentions is in fact NOT about nerfing and replacing the system with an Auction House.
Its about creating a real competitive market place with the tools and system we have been given fill the gaps of what might be missing. IMO there is no real competitive market because there are no set market rules. Its just sell it, buy it, flip it before someone gets it at a good price and this practice puts other guild traders out of business.

Naftal · October 2019

SirDopey wrote: »

Ruinhorn wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

How about the fact you can exchange a carrot for 3 metal rubedite cuirasses?
Life in Tamriel was never easy.

Hooowwwwww?????

But I agree, amount of times you see something listed on TTC for a reasonable price and its gone in a few minutes because some gold seller is buying and relisting things to drive up the pirce is pretty frustrating.

How do you know it's "some gold seller" instead of someone like you who wanted something at a reasonable price?

idk · October 2019

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

LOL. It is rather absurd to bring in real world laws concerning price gouging since the purpose of those laws are not relevant in ESO.

Just in case you are serious, price gouging laws relate to people raising prices on essential goods and services as a result of a civil emergency. ESO lacks civil emergencies which should be pretty obvious.

I edited out the rest of the comment I quoted since I felt no reason to continue reading after this first sentence.

MLGProPlayer · October 2019

SirDopey wrote: »

Ruinhorn wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

How about the fact you can exchange a carrot for 3 metal rubedite cuirasses?
Life in Tamriel was never easy.

Hooowwwwww?????

But I agree, amount of times you see something listed on TTC for a reasonable price and its gone in a few minutes because some gold seller is buying and relisting things to drive up the pirce is pretty frustrating.

Flipping =/= gold selling

And more often than not, that item was gone because someone bought it who needed it. Flippers don't shop guild stores. That is an extremely ineffective way of making gold. They scour zone chats for sellers and then offer significantly lower than market value on bulk orders and big ticket items.

yRaven · October 2019

Pls, the only thing i could possibly want is that i could sell items even though i bound it to me by using it

So if like, i made a Training Gear for leveling my toon, i could sell it after using, for the rest leave it as it's

starkerealm · October 2019

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

starkerealm · October 2019

yRaven wrote: »

Pls, the only thing i could possibly want is that i could sell items even though i bound it to me by using it

So if like, i made a Training Gear for leveling my toon, i could sell it after using, for the rest leave it as it's

If it's not part of a set, you can resell used gear. So, you can make training gear for yourself, wear it, then sell it later. Though, dying the armor may bind it, I forget. Back when the transmute system was still a thing, converting an armor piece to Imperial or Morag Tong would also bind it.

That said, there's not really much secondary market value for training gear.

daemonios · October 2019

idk wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

LOL. It is rather absurd to bring in real world laws concerning price gouging since the purpose of those laws are not relevant in ESO.

Just in case you are serious, price gouging laws relate to people raising prices on essential goods and services as a result of a civil emergency. ESO lacks civil emergencies which should be pretty obvious.

I edited out the rest of the comment I quoted since I felt no reason to continue reading after this first sentence.

I'm sorry, but an in-game economy is still an economy. If real laws were irrelevant, the game wouldn't need gold sinks to prevent inflation, or secure trading to prevent fraud. What "laws" you choose to implement is of course a matter of where the devs want to take their in-game economy, but to dismiss anti-gouging measures just like that because "it's just a game" doesn't seem like a sound argument to me.

ESO has to have one of the shallowest economies I've experienced in an MMO due to several factors, including price gouging, but also the relative ease of farming for items/mats yourself, and the fact that most rare stuff can't be traded. Price gouging in game affects newer and more casual players. It makes them not participate in the economy, and potentially the game. Fewer players means an emptier game, longer queues, etc. A case can definitely be made for anti price gouging measures in ESO.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn · October 2019

Ruinhorn wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

How about the fact you can exchange a carrot for 3 metal rubedite cuirasses?
Life in Tamriel was never easy.

Life in Tamriel is definitely not easy.

Children are sacrificed to the Daedric princes at birth.

Ysbriel · October 2019

idk wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

LOL. It is rather absurd to bring in real world laws concerning price gouging since the purpose of those laws are not relevant in ESO.

Just in case you are serious, price gouging laws relate to people raising prices on essential goods and services as a result of a civil emergency. ESO lacks civil emergencies which should be pretty obvious.

I edited out the rest of the comment I quoted since I felt no reason to continue reading after this first sentence.

By your logic then, receiving a bounty for committing a crime should be removed from the game, the concept of trespassing during heists, murdering the innocent is also and absurd worldly thing etc.

And what do you mean that there are no civil emergencies? There is a Daedric Prince trying to take over Nirn. The Celestials have gone crazy in Craglorn, Another Daedric Prince is trying to destroy the members of the Tribunal, Dragons are flying all around Tamriel, all of this while one of the biggest wars is taking place among other dangers. nope no civil emergencies there.

starkerealm · October 2019

daemonios wrote: »

If real laws were irrelevant, the game wouldn't need gold sinks to prevent inflation, or secure trading to prevent fraud.

redlink1979 · October 2019

AH? No, once again...
Pricing is too high, you think? What about "wasting" some time farming the items/resources?!

bmnoble · October 2019

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

That also would make the price each vendor sells their items, their opinion but then again. The practice of flipping the practice also screws over the customer who agreed with the better priced opinion. The is no control established whatsoever and the same time you might consider it to be foolish to hold on to items for someone else might be the same time another person’s burden as well to get an item at a good price. There is a difference in between wholesale and retail price. Flipping prices do not fall into that unless you want to tell me your local grocery store buys retail grocery items from the competition to sell it at a higher price. The way the traders work you are also already a supplier for that particular trading guild. If you put it into a trader perspective as well you will have another trader screwing over your business since how acquiring the stall works your guild might had sales but will also require lots of gold in “donations” to make the bid. The lack of set trading controls is unhealthy for the marketplace.

daemonios wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

LOL. It is rather absurd to bring in real world laws concerning price gouging since the purpose of those laws are not relevant in ESO.

Just in case you are serious, price gouging laws relate to people raising prices on essential goods and services as a result of a civil emergency. ESO lacks civil emergencies which should be pretty obvious.

I edited out the rest of the comment I quoted since I felt no reason to continue reading after this first sentence.

I'm sorry, but an in-game economy is still an economy. If real laws were irrelevant, the game wouldn't need gold sinks to prevent inflation, or secure trading to prevent fraud. What "laws" you choose to implement is of course a matter of where the devs want to take their in-game economy, but to dismiss anti-gouging measures just like that because "it's just a game" doesn't seem like a sound argument to me.

ESO has to have one of the shallowest economies I've experienced in an MMO due to several factors, including price gouging, but also the relative ease of farming for items/mats yourself, and the fact that most rare stuff can't be traded. Price gouging in game affects newer and more casual players. It makes them not participate in the economy, and potentially the game. Fewer players means an emptier game, longer queues, etc. A case can definitely be made for anti price gouging measures in ESO.

There is nothing forcing players to buy items from a guild store, if one store sells something at a stupid price, customers can just walk to the next trader or try a different zones traders/browse TTC etc.. take a little while to find a fair deal on most mats, consumables etc..

You just have to be patient, new mats are constantly going up on the guild stores undercutting the higher prices, if you don't want to pay the high prices for mats, do what others do buy when you don't need the mats at good prices, build up a stockpile so you can wait out the price hikes.

For example in the 5 trade guilds I am in once every few days I will go through the category's for every type of mat I use in daily writs, I will buy every single thing that is listed at a good price and it stays in my craft bag, never goes back on the store. (and I mean everything, sometimes I will fill my mail box up with stacks of mats after I do my shopping but only in the guilds I am in unless they don't have something I need)

My guild mates move their stock at a good price and are able to put up new stock at a fair price they know will sell, they up their prices I don't buy, provided they pay attention they figure out at what rates I am willing to buy and list their stock at those prices, unless they want to wait weeks to sell stuff. (and to clarify its almost always at the master merchant rate that I buy stuff or around the mid range for TTC that I tend to buy stuff)

If you pay the higher prices you encourage people to keep the prices higher, if you ignore the prices you believe are unfair and it takes longer for the items to sell or in some cases they expire, that seller will drop their prices, its not going to be instant, those sellers are among the most patient in the game, many will let an item sit for a week or more before even considering dropping their prices to get the items to sell.

In a few of the trade guilds I am in, the guilds leadership discourages stupidly high prices on stuff, since if reflects poorly on the guilds reputation/image, a lot of guilds get repeat customers buying large quantities of mats, if a customer comes to your guild trader and sees most of the stock is poorly priced they are less likely to visit that trader again, for some time.

When it comes to gear, if your at the point where your buying the current in demand sets and not willing to go out and farm them yourself, you have to be prepared to spend a decent amount of gold, people spend a lot of time farming that gear, if they want to charge a high price that's up to them, more than a few make a large amount of their income doing this, if all the sets are worth next to nothing, they won't bother doing it and you will have to end up farming the stuff anyway.

Simple fact is those items are selling at those prices, until they stop selling at those prices it won't change.

Casuals and new players are not the target customers for in demand gear sets and more often than not they can get those sets at bargain basement prices if they are willing to settle for off trait pieces, unless your trying for that extra few % points of damage in a build you don't need perfect traits.

I buy a lot of set gear off the stores, I and a lot of other players, pay the high gold prices to avoid having to waste transmute stones, since I play primarily PVE I don't get a lot so I save them for changing traits on dungeon gear, overland gear I buy the traits I want.

For me making gold is easier than farming the gear or earning the transmute stones, you make your gold to spend on stuff, you can always make more and you don't need much gold day to day playing the game, its only when you want to buy an expensive item that you need a lot, even then just take the time to save up, popular gear will always end up on the guild stores again you don't have to buy the current listings if you feel they are unfair.

The reality is implementing rules won't work in the guild traders, for example if they implemented a max price for items, people would just sell in zone, via COD or direct trade.

If they put temporary bound periods for items, the re sellers will still buy them, remember these are people who will maximize their storage space, on their account and have stock from the golden vendor, motifs from events etc.. sitting in storage for a few months to get the best price, a 24hr bound period or 1 month bound period would be nothing to them, it would probably hurt players more since the relisted items would not be on the stores and the re sellers would be able to hold onto a large amount of the stock.

Making the items bound after being sold through the guild traders, would just result in people selling through zone chat.

Trade guilds leader ship have a role to play in setting basic guide lines to their guild members but beyond that nothing stopping anyone putting up anything at any price they feel like, it all comes down to whether the customers are willing to pay those prices.

If your broke you have less to worry about the high prices are out of your reach/beyond temptation and you won't be able to buy the item to feel ripped off afterwards, if you have the gold to spend, its up to your common sense as to whether you feel the price is ok But for some people the high prices people like to complain about are a drop in the bucket, if they want something they will pay.

But at the end of it all, its only play money, there is no point hoarding it, spend it on what you want, you can always make more.

kathandira · October 2019

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

One reason i'd love to see centralized Auction Houses is because it really wastes my time having to go from Trader to Trader all around Tamriel to find an item I am looking for. Price Gouging and what have you is annoying, but not nearly as annoying as having to waste time with tons of loading screens hopping zone to zone to check different traders.

Let me make a correction to your argument. Which is that you want a GAH so that you can save additional time. I make that correction because I want people on both sides acknowledge at the very least that the current system is used in an effort to save time and offer a convenience. Because the alternative is for you to farm whatever it is you are trying to buy. A GAH just makes it more convenient.

So I have an honest question for you and everyone else on here: How much of a premium would you pay for increased convenience? Both as a seller and a buyer?

I currently pay higher prices when I buy from Traders in major cities. I'm not sure i'm understanding the direction of your question. Are you asking how much more i'd be willing to pay for a Global Auction House?

kargen27 · October 2019

"This suggestion would prevent sudden bursts of market manipulation, like what happened last year after Summerfall when ZOS gave everyone the new Psijic House. Demand surged, and housing mat prices surged sky-high. Reselling was very profitable. So this suggestion would help with that sort of opportunistic reselling."

What you are describing is the market working like any market should work. There was an increase in demand leading to a natural increase in price. Once the demand ebbed the prices adjusted accordingly. Those who wanted to decorate their homes first were willing to pay extra. The more patient players were able to get the materials they wanted at a lower price.

I have seen price gouging and laws preventing price gouging mentioned and that doesn't apply to anything in this game. Price gouging prevents profiting on necessary items. An example being charging outrageous prices for water after a hurricane. People need water to live. There is nothing in the game that is a need. Price gouging doesn't prevent a price increase it prevents huge price increases during times of emergency.

If there were a point in the game where your account would be deleted if you don't have 200 columbine in the bank and people started raising the price of columbine by 300% then the gouging argument might apply in the game. Other than that or some similar scenario price gouging can't happen in the game because there is a difference between wanting something and needing something.

idk · October 2019

daemonios wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

If price gouging is just an opinion then why do laws exist that prohibit the practice?

LOL. It is rather absurd to bring in real world laws concerning price gouging since the purpose of those laws are not relevant in ESO.

Just in case you are serious, price gouging laws relate to people raising prices on essential goods and services as a result of a civil emergency. ESO lacks civil emergencies which should be pretty obvious.

I edited out the rest of the comment I quoted since I felt no reason to continue reading after this first sentence.

I'm sorry, but an in-game economy is still an economy. If real laws were irrelevant, the game wouldn't need gold sinks to prevent inflation, or secure trading to prevent fraud

The economic laws of supply and demand do apply in game, but that is not what this line of conversation stepped into. This conversation stated because someone stated if there was no price gouging then why are there laws on the subject.

It is absurd to suggest a real world law dealing the civil emergencies relates to a game where that situation never occurs. So your information is inaccurate in relation to the game. I removed what came after this because it seemed pointless to read past what I quoted.

kathandira · October 2019

Anyone else feel like Traders are like Economic PvP? Those who buy and flip items, and hold a tight grip on item pricing are basically enjoying the game by making it more difficult for others who are looking to obtain items from Traders. In a way, it is almost like minor griefing. I say it that way because a player can always just go out and get the items they need by good ol farming, so it isn't really griefing as no one is truly prevented from getting what they need. But it is a bit annoying that it is permitted to allow such economic manipulation.

/rambling