All sales are final.

Ysbriel

For a healthier competitive market we need to setup controls, price gouging is a common practice that has been complained about in many post from people who want a new AH trading system or others that mention that they don't like the bid system. One of the things ZOS could implement is that whatever gear, motif, food, writ, collectible and non ingredient is now bound to your account and you cannot resell it or make it bound for at least make it bound for a week and a half so that way the item is not part of the weekly sales for bids. What say you?

Dusk_Coven

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

Ruinhorn

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

How about the fact you can exchange a carrot for 3 metal rubedite cuirasses?
Life in Tamriel was never easy.

Kurat

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

Hamish999

Hell no! I regularly list high value items at the low end of the TTC for the express purpose of a quick sale to the flippers . Let them take the risk and the time to sell (or not) at a mid or higher value.
(I'm sure sometimes someone that needs that motif/runebox/blueprint will get a bargain)

Ysbriel

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

Well something might not be entirely right with the system, i don't advocate for AH but something has to be done in order to make the system more competitive.

InvictusApollo

Hamish999 wrote: »

Hell no! I regularly list high value items at the low end of the TTC for the express purpose of a quick sale to the flippers . Let them take the risk and the time to sell (or not) at a mid or higher value.
(I'm sure sometimes someone that needs that motif/runebox/blueprint will get a bargain)

I got it! Thanks!

daemonios

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

"Works fine for me" does not equal "works fine". Clearly, judging from "these ppl with the AH threads", it doesn't "work fine" for everyone, not even close. Trading is very unlikely to change now, but these threads are just as legitimate as the dozens of "nerf this" threads that routinely come up.

bmnoble

No

If I want to resell something that I bought but no longer need/bought too much of, I should be able to, the only time something should be bound after buying it is when you wear it.

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.


Sure there are re-sellers but a lot of players deliberately sell low so that they can get a quick sale and let someone else take the time and risk to sell at a higher price.


And not all mats on the guild stores that are high priced are being sold by re-sellers, plenty of that stuff is put up by players that take the time to actually harvest the mats and charge a high price for their time.

But most will price according to Master merchant in their guilds or TTC, only when those turn up empty are they likely to guess a price after asking their guild mates.


If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

starkerealm

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

Carrots are a component in Jugged Rabbit in Preserves and Withered Tree Pot Roast. A single carrot will (contribute towards) making four doses. Those average around 30-40g per unit. A carrot averages 6-8g in guild stores. Realistically, both foods are common enough that you're not going to make a lot of money off them, and your profit margin will be close to break even, but you can absolutely make money selling food to other players.

Araneae6537

Absolutely not. Many furnishings I would not purchase if they were account bound. I want to be able to sell them if they don’t work how I’d envisioned.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with flipping. I don’t do it in this game because it takes far more resources than in a game with a central trading system (did quite a bit of flipping in SWTOR and GW2). It’s hardly gauging and making purchases account-bound is needlessly punitive and, I suspect, would decrease supply and thereby make things more expensive.

Araneae6537

bmnoble wrote: »

No

If I want to resell something that I bought but no longer need/bought too much of, I should be able to, the only time something should be bound after buying it is when you wear it.

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Sure there are re-sellers but a lot of players deliberately sell low so that they can get a quick sale and let someone else take the time and risk to sell at a higher price.

And not all mats on the guild stores that are high priced are being sold by re-sellers, plenty of that stuff is put up by players that take the time to actually harvest the mats and charge a high price for their time.

But most will price according to Master merchant in their guilds or TTC, only when those turn up empty are they likely to guess a price after asking their guild mates.

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

All excellent points and very well said!

xaraan

I say the market is fine as is.

I like the fact that you can bargain hunt by going around looking for something someone else might not care to do and they just buy at the first place they find it. Or being able to sell something easier b/c you are in a larger guild in a bigger city, so you can list it a bit higher making it worthwhile. I

I also think people forget about a couple things:

It would also be even easier for people to control a market on something if they wanted. You think it's easy for cornflower to get snatched up and controlled now? Imagine if it was all in one place and could be bought as soon as it was listed and then just held to drive price up. There are people with that kind of money and it would happen.

If there was an auction house and no guild traders, then you would not be taking hundreds of millions of gold out of the market every week (yes, that much). Which means the gold you have would be worth MUCH less. There would be so much gold in the market, it would make earning gold any other way but being a trader to work with large amounts of goods a waste of time. As is, there are several ways to earn 'ok' gold in the game to add up to something worthwhile after a bit of work, but it would take ten times as long if gold was devalued.

Jeremy

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

I disagree. If the system worked fine the way it is then everyone wouldn't be using addons to make the system "work" - which nearly everyone on the PC does (either that or they rely on others who do use them). So until I stop seeing people use addons to access price histories and locations (which again: everyone or nearly does) I don't see how someone can legitimately say the system works fine the way it is since it requires people to supplement it with third party programs to make it tolerable.

But anyway: I and you should be glad to be see these auction house threads resurface. That's actually a healthy sign for the game - because really all it means is that new players are coming into the game and are aghast at the guild trader system (I had a similar reaction when I was a new player myself, though the system was considerably worse off then). So take it as a good sign that the game is bringing in new players from other games. Though considering you are telling these players to go play WoW in response you may not really care about that anyway. So on second thought nevermind. ^^

Rave the Histborn

Ysbriel wrote: »

show previous quotes

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

Well something might not be entirely right with the system, i don't advocate for AH but something has to be done in order to make the system more competitive.

What is so wrong with the system? No trading system will ever be perfect so "not entirely right" is pretty vague.

Wolfpaw

I just skip over all arguments for the current system.

Global trader, or AH, worked fine/better in the mmorpg's I have played: WoW, SWTOR, GW2, BDO, Wildstar, & Archeage.

Keep making posts,...maybe someday.

starkerealm

Jeremy wrote: »

show previous quotes

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

I disagree. If the system worked fine the way it is then everyone wouldn't be using addons to make the system "work" - which nearly everyone on the PC does (either that or they rely on others who do use them). So until I stop seeing people use addons to access price histories and locations (which again: everyone or nearly does) I don't see how someone can legitimately say the system works fine the way it is since it requires people to supplement it with third party programs to make it tolerable.

That suggests that vet trial content doesn't work. That Writs don't work. That the map doesn't work.

There are a lot of ways to customize the experience on PC to your liking. It doesn't mean that the entire game is non-functional.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ysbriel wrote: »

For a healthier competitive market we need to setup controls, price gouging is a common practice that has been complained about in many post from people who want a new AH trading system or others that mention that they don't like the bid system. One of the things ZOS could implement is that whatever gear, motif, food, writ, collectible and non ingredient is now bound to your account and you cannot resell it or make it bound for at least make it bound for a week and a half so that way the item is not part of the weekly sales for bids. What say you?

I say it's unnecessarily complicated. Live and let live, play and let play.

srfrogg23

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You wanna talk price gouging?
How about we start with the NPC grocer selling us carrots at 150 gold. PER CARROT.
Maybe if some of the basic goods weren't stupidly expensive we wouldn't have to shop the Guild Stores in the first place.
When a carrot in a Guild Store at 10 gold... 20 gold... even 50 gold is "cheap" compared to the alternative. <.<
And after you cook that carrot you're lucky to sell the meal for 1 gold.

Great. This thread is now about carrots.

Emma_Overload

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

LOL, no it doesn't. It takes 2+ hours now to check every trader if you are looking for an obscure or hard-to-get item. At the very least, guild traders should be centrally searchable. If they finally implemented this search function, they should also let you put a deposit (10% or whatever) to hold the item for an hour so you have time to travel to the trader.

Jeremy

starkerealm wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jeremy wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

I disagree. If the system worked fine the way it is then everyone wouldn't be using addons to make the system "work" - which nearly everyone on the PC does (either that or they rely on others who do use them). So until I stop seeing people use addons to access price histories and locations (which again: everyone or nearly does) I don't see how someone can legitimately say the system works fine the way it is since it requires people to supplement it with third party programs to make it tolerable.

That suggests that vet trial content doesn't work. That Writs don't work. That the map doesn't work.

There are a lot of ways to customize the experience on PC to your liking. It doesn't mean that the entire game is non-functional.

I do writs just fine without addons. I have no problems using the map either. So I don't find your comparisons accurate.

The guild trader system as it is lacks basic functions such a price history or the location of items for sale - which makes using the system without addons an unreasonable chore - which is of course why nearly everyone uses these addons or relies on others who do use these addons by asking in chat for price checks etc. That's not "customizing" your experience. That's supplementing a flawed system that lacks the most basic and necessary tools to make a market accessible and usable.

I have a challenge for you: if you think the guild trader system "works fine as it is" then go disable all your market addons and don't ask others who use those addons for price histories or the locations of items for sale. Do that for a few months and then come back and tell me if the system works fine as it is. I suspect you'll have a different opinion then.

starkerealm

Jeremy wrote: »

show previous quotes

starkerealm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

I disagree. If the system worked fine the way it is then everyone wouldn't be using addons to make the system "work" - which nearly everyone on the PC does (either that or they rely on others who do use them). So until I stop seeing people use addons to access price histories and locations (which again: everyone or nearly does) I don't see how someone can legitimately say the system works fine the way it is since it requires people to supplement it with third party programs to make it tolerable.

That suggests that vet trial content doesn't work. That Writs don't work. That the map doesn't work.

There are a lot of ways to customize the experience on PC to your liking. It doesn't mean that the entire game is non-functional.

I do writs just fine without addons. I have no problems using the map either. So I don't find your comparisons accurate.

The guild trader system as it is lacks basic functions such a price history or the location of items for sale - which makes using the system without addons an unreasonable chore - which is of course why nearly everyone uses these addons or relies on others who do use these addons by asking in chat for price checks etc. That's not "customizing" your experience. That's supplementing a flawed system that lacks the most basic and necessary tools to make a market accessible and usable.

I have a challenge for you: if you think the guild trader system "works fine as it is" then go disable all your market addons and don't ask others who use those addons for price histories or the locations of items for sale. Do that for a few months and then come back and tell me if the system works fine as it is. I suspect you'll have a different opinion then.

I did that for years. TTC didn't exist before 2016, and I don't think I started using it before 2017. Master Merchant dates back to 2015, and I don't remember when I started using it, but it's always been very limited, unless you were in major trade guilds.

On top of that, try doing writs on 18 characters without addons, every day. Tell me that system works without them.

Or, you know, just track down all those skyshards you're missing on your map without resorting to looking them up on the internet... oh, right, you can't.

Addons improve the experience.

Awesome Guild Store used to be an example of an addon that was semi-mandatory. Now the base guild store UI is functional, but AGS is, well, awesome. It's a significant improvement to the UI.

I'd say the same thing about Pixel Perfect, even though few would jump around and scream about how the base UI is worthless.

Master Merchant will only pull data from guilds you're a member of. It can't access other guilds. So the data is actually pretty local.

TTC is crowd sourced, but requires an external .exe running in the background, which is a major security risk most people aren't willing to use.

Beyond that, CraftStore is a must have. It's so nice.

No Accidental Stealing, and Vampire's Woe are also amazing.

Does this mean the Justice System is broken? Well, no. Just that it's inconvenient.

You don't need TTC, and MM won't help you find stuff. You can run stall to stall searching. Hell, I do that more often than I trust the search on TTC, because the data is a couple hours old, and if something is rare and desirable, it'll be gone before I get there.

I do use AGS for that, because there are more search options. But, that's a pretty minor sin.

idk

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen. First of all, no one can price gouge you unless you let them and what is price gouging is really just an opinion. Second of all, there are players who enjoy searching for deals available at secondary trading areas then selling them at a profit at the busier areas. That is good and wise commerce. Shutting it down does not make sense.

Edit: forgot. OP's idea also prevents helping a friend with buying them some gear. It absolutely prevents that. What fool would hold onto the items for a week when the friend would have out leveled the gear.

And lets support the NPC vendor. That NPC selling carrots at such a high price has NPC children to feed. We are just not permitted to see the children for their safety.

starkerealm

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen.

Wait, what?

*Looks at the first post.*

How the snot did I miss that!?

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen.

Wait, what?

*Looks at the first post.*

How the snot did I miss that!?

The carrots? lol

InvictusApollo

bmnoble wrote: »

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Then lets just make it tradeable through personal contact - problem solved.

bmnoble wrote: »

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

What about people like me? People whose luck attribute is so low that we literally make mathematicians question the probability theory. I'm sorry but I can't farm for 100h just to get the piece that I need. I have to buy it from the store.
As for farming materials it is ridden with bots.
I think that preventing wares from being resold is a great idea that would stop millionaires from artificially increasing prices.

Jeremy

starkerealm wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jeremy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Where are these ppl coming from with the AH threads lately. Leave it alone, trading system works fine the way it is. If you dont like it go play WoW.

I disagree. If the system worked fine the way it is then everyone wouldn't be using addons to make the system "work" - which nearly everyone on the PC does (either that or they rely on others who do use them). So until I stop seeing people use addons to access price histories and locations (which again: everyone or nearly does) I don't see how someone can legitimately say the system works fine the way it is since it requires people to supplement it with third party programs to make it tolerable.

That suggests that vet trial content doesn't work. That Writs don't work. That the map doesn't work.

There are a lot of ways to customize the experience on PC to your liking. It doesn't mean that the entire game is non-functional.

I do writs just fine without addons. I have no problems using the map either. So I don't find your comparisons accurate.

The guild trader system as it is lacks basic functions such a price history or the location of items for sale - which makes using the system without addons an unreasonable chore - which is of course why nearly everyone uses these addons or relies on others who do use these addons by asking in chat for price checks etc. That's not "customizing" your experience. That's supplementing a flawed system that lacks the most basic and necessary tools to make a market accessible and usable.

I have a challenge for you: if you think the guild trader system "works fine as it is" then go disable all your market addons and don't ask others who use those addons for price histories or the locations of items for sale. Do that for a few months and then come back and tell me if the system works fine as it is. I suspect you'll have a different opinion then.

I did that for years. TTC didn't exist before 2016, and I don't think I started using it before 2017. Master Merchant dates back to 2015, and I don't remember when I started using it, but it's always been very limited, unless you were in major trade guilds.

On top of that, try doing writs on 18 characters without addons, every day. Tell me that system works without them.

Or, you know, just track down all those skyshards you're missing on your map without resorting to looking them up on the internet... oh, right, you can't.

Addons improve the experience.

Awesome Guild Store used to be an example of an addon that was semi-mandatory. Now the base guild store UI is functional, but AGS is, well, awesome. It's a significant improvement to the UI.

I'd say the same thing about Pixel Perfect, even though few would jump around and scream about how the base UI is worthless.

Master Merchant will only pull data from guilds you're a member of. It can't access other guilds. So the data is actually pretty local.

TTC is crowd sourced, but requires an external .exe running in the background, which is a major security risk most people aren't willing to use.

Beyond that, CraftStore is a must have. It's so nice.

No Accidental Stealing, and Vampire's Woe are also amazing.

Does this mean the Justice System is broken? Well, no. Just that it's inconvenient.

You don't need TTC, and MM won't help you find stuff. You can run stall to stall searching. Hell, I do that more often than I trust the search on TTC, because the data is a couple hours old, and if something is rare and desirable, it'll be gone before I get there.

I do use AGS for that, because there are more search options. But, that's a pretty minor sin.

You keep trying to change the context of my argument by suggesting I said it was "broken" or "doesn't function". I never said that. What I actually said was the system does not work fine as it is. So why if you disagree with me and believe the guild trader system actually does work fine as it is did you start using those market addons in the first place?

That looks like a contradiction to me.

So obviously you weren't content with the system as it is otherwise you would not have started using those addons in the first place.

Has the guild trader system improved over the years? Aye, it has (and I alluded to that in my post). But it still lacks some very basic functions that need to be included in the base game - such as a price history for example so players can view what items are actually selling for on the market. So it still needs some significant improvements before I would consider it "fine as is". And considering how many people use addons to improve the current guild trader system (which like I said is basically everyone) I think it's safe to say I'm not the only one. And considering you yourself use these same market addons and seem unwilling to give them up - it's safe to say you're one of them as well.

It would be amusing to watch how players would react if ESO banned all market addons. Then we could see for real if players were truly content with the current guild trader system or not. Because I am 99.9% confident they wouldn't be, including many of its defenders. The system is poorly implemented and devised and barely skates by due to addons making it tolerable as I said.

starkerealm

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is one of the worst ideas concerning guild traders I have ever seen.

Wait, what?

*Looks at the first post.*

How the snot did I miss that!?

The carrots? lol

Yep.

idk

InvictusApollo wrote: »

show previous quotes

bmnoble wrote: »

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Then lets just make it tradeable through personal contact - problem solved.

show previous quotes

bmnoble wrote: »

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

What about people like me? People whose luck attribute is so low that we literally make mathematicians question the probability theory. I'm sorry but I can't farm for 100h just to get the piece that I need. I have to buy it from the store.
As for farming materials it is ridden with bots.
I think that preventing wares from being resold is a great idea that would stop millionaires from artificially increasing prices.

1. Designing a change that would make using the in game trading system less favorable is probably not going to happen. So this whole bound for a week thing only affecting, and especially if it does not affect direct trading, is just not going to happen if you think of things logically.
2. As for your bad luck, that is a personal issue that is really not very relevant to the discussion.
3. Bots interfering with farming matts, odd since I have many places I farm matts that I do not see bots.

Araneae6537

Wolfpaw wrote: »

I just skip over all arguments for the current system.

Global trader, or AH, worked fine/better in the mmorpg's I have played: WoW, SWTOR, GW2, BDO, Wildstar, &

show previous quotes

InvictusApollo wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Not all people are buying stuff cheap to resell, a lot of the guilds I am in will buy stuff off the stores at a good price to use as raffle prizes and for auctions etc or guild members will buy stuff off traders to donate for auctions and raffle prizes its not just the guild masters and officers doing that.

Or even rich friends buying stuff for their broke mates or annoying relatives that have discovered you playing the game as well.

Then lets just make it tradeable through personal contact - problem solved.

bmnoble wrote: »

If you feel the prices of stuff on the guild traders are too high, nothing stopping you farming what you need yourself, everything on the store can be acquired, if your willing to take the time to farm it, if not earn some gold and pay the price of convenience.

What about people like me? People whose luck attribute is so low that we literally make mathematicians question the probability theory. I'm sorry but I can't farm for 100h just to get the piece that I need. I have to buy it from the store.
As for farming materials it is ridden with bots.
I think that preventing wares from being resold is a great idea that would stop millionaires from artificially increasing prices.

And you think this would make the price lower because... why? Someone could still buy cheap mats and armor to use and decon themselves (oh yes, now the system would have to keep track of bound and unbound types of the same material) and sell the materials / drops they get themselves at the prices you bemoan.

Making stuff not resaleable would hurt people who are stuck with things they no longer want, reduce availability and almost certainly increase prices, all while ZOS would have to implement extra coding to keep track of all this.

TL;DR Preventing things from being resold would help nothing and create many problems, all-in-all a terrible idea.

Goregrinder

What's with this surge of poors not wanting to put effort into not being poor anymore?