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Werewolf in PvP

Dark_Shady
Dark_Shady
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Werewolf in PvP now can certainly feel strong as far as damage goes, even with the howl damage nerf and the increased cost of the skills it still works in PvP but my problem comes with the heal... the heal cost 5700 magicka so without a second set that gives magicka you can generally only cast the heal once, and it’s even worse in no cp.

I agree it should be a high costing skill but I think it shouldn’t cost more than 4500-5k range tops. 5700 magicka is just too much
  • Szende
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    How about somekind of... healing monster set on WW? Personally i really see Pariah and... troll king maybe the good way on WW or even Earthgore? DMG wise WW's good but survivalitiby is weak. Not just beacuse the expensive healing. But also the weakness agianst snares.
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Qbiken
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    Dark_Shady wrote: »
    Werewolf in PvP now can certainly feel strong as far as damage goes, even with the howl damage nerf and the increased cost of the skills it still works in PvP but my problem comes with the heal... the heal cost 5700 magicka so without a second set that gives magicka you can generally only cast the heal once, and it’s even worse in no cp.

    I agree it should be a high costing skill but I think it shouldn’t cost more than 4500-5k range tops. 5700 magicka is just too much

    The biggest problem in pvp atm as a werewolf isn't the increased cost of the heal (it's painful and the person who thought that cost increase was a good idea should reconsider why they work with combat balance), but the fact that ww damage output is utterly pathetic. Only time I've died to a werewolf this patch is if I'm already severely outnumbered (and that ww wouldn't have made a difference anyway).

    Werewolfs needs some significant damage buffs in order to be viable in pvp again.

    Edit: and the heal shouldn't cost more than 5k, agree on you there.
    Edited by Qbiken on October 2, 2019 9:31AM
  • SosRuvaak
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    the heal in ww form is soo bad, its the number one reason i stay out of ww form and just keep it on my hotbar for 15% stam regen
    For the Pact!
    ~Sump Scales~
    Lusty Argonian Nightblade
    ~Baron Humbert von Gikkingen~
    Smokes-His-Greens
    ~Ruvaak~
  • geonsocal
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    lots of hybrid type sets out in the market now...

    if you're going to slot ww, you need to build for it...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • Qbiken
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    lots of hybrid type sets out in the market now...

    if you're going to slot ww, you need to build for it...

    And even if you do, you'll notice that it simple doesn't work..... :disappointed:
  • SosRuvaak
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    lots of hybrid type sets out in the market now...

    if you're going to slot ww, you need to build for it...

    And even if you do, you'll notice that it simple doesn't work..... :disappointed:

    most people see a werewolf and target the werewolf regardless, soo having a weak heal really hurts.
    For the Pact!
    ~Sump Scales~
    Lusty Argonian Nightblade
    ~Baron Humbert von Gikkingen~
    Smokes-His-Greens
    ~Ruvaak~
  • Goregrinder
    Goregrinder
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    WW in this patch just does not perform well especially in no-CP. I ran an ultra tanky build that worked well pre-elswyer but the dots got buffed, our heal got nerfed, and DS+Execute+Onslought makes any form of tankiness null. You can try to build for damage instead but you will be squishy.

    I would suggest that if you play WW, you HAVE to build around it, otherwise...why take extra fire damage and waste a slot? You should also have at least one buddy play with you for pocket heals. I would say that multiple WW in a group is still good, and focus firing (in general) as WW will shred people down, and distribute incoming damage, but going solo WW just sucks right now.
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    If you're running your WW solo, @Szende , I would DEFINITELY give Troll King a shot, then go all in on Health Recovery as your build allows.

    Both Claws of Life and either morph of Hircine's Bounty should do a good job of keeping TK's proc running.
  • Szende
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    Yes, in my plan is the Troll King with Pariah.
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • stredd
    stredd
    Soul Shriven
    geonsocal wrote: »
    lots of hybrid type sets out in the market now...

    if you're going to slot ww, you need to build for it...

    What sets did you have in mind? More importantly, are you thinking 1 offensive and 1 defensive set, or 2 offensive sets?

    Really curious what builds people are trying on their WWs because honestly I'm open to anything at this point.
  • Goregrinder
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    stredd wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    lots of hybrid type sets out in the market now...

    if you're going to slot ww, you need to build for it...

    What sets did you have in mind? More importantly, are you thinking 1 offensive and 1 defensive set, or 2 offensive sets?

    Really curious what builds people are trying on their WWs because honestly I'm open to anything at this point.

    So what I was running up until Scalebreaker was:

    5 heavy, 2 Med
    Dual Wield Front
    2H Back/Bow
    Alessian's Order + Fortified Brass + Zaan.
    Steed mundus, Infused Jewelry with +Health Recovery.

    Sort of a Health recovery build, but focused on getting high resists in WW form, at least 10k over the 33k soft cap. The reason why is that anything over 33k does not help normal damage, BUT will create a buffer for any penetration debuffs, AND Alessian's Order health recovery does not care about the 33k resist cap. If you had 70k resis it would give you an additional 1400 recovery.

    You are super tanky, can outheal most normal damage even when you are being trained. When you are stunned the health recovery and resists work for you. You CAN still be bursted down but it takes a group doing their combo to kill you, but that is 4 people focused on one dude.

    The killing potential is slow, as you don't have any real burst damage, BUT that is what Zaan is for. Skoria also works for this, but I only had Zaan. It is your single target DD when it procs. You just hit EVERYONE, get EVERYONE on you, let your team pick who to focus on, bleed everyone, and when Zaan procs, do your burst combo (Fear + Heavy Attack + WW DD). They literally have to have so much healing up, or have to move out of the fight to avoid the incoming 30k damage.

    You pick people off one by one, rather than burst multiple people down as fast as possible. It could work with Fury or 7th legion but you lose out on resists, and I felt staying in the fight long enough for Zaan to do it's thing was more effective. But now, with all the dots and Onslaught erasing all resists you have, it is hard to make it work imo.

  • stredd
    stredd
    Soul Shriven
    Thanks for taking the time to type that up. Going to give this setup a whirl once I acquire the pieces.

    I know this is just semantics because for one particular build it doesn't matter but: are you running Alessian armor with brass weapons/jewelry or brass armor with Alessian weapons/jewelry? I'm thinking about future flexibility of the build and which set you are most likely to swap out.
    Edited by stredd on October 9, 2019 8:29PM
  • Koensol
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    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.
  • Szende
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    Well now im thinking about Pariah, Alessian and Troll King... :D just wondering how to get some damage
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Qbiken
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
  • Koensol
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
    Even without that bug it was borderline broken. In a decent team nothing was as scary as a WW. The ease at which they put out damage, even with just light attack spamming, was just stupid. Werewolf has always been strong, I never got the complaints about them being weak. Bleeds in combination with unmitigatable damage from torugs and *** monsterhelmets like zaan only inflated this. They deserved to be toned down.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    Paraphrasing the title of this thread...

    Werewolves in PvP ?! What ? Where ?! : :D:D:joy:
  • zDan
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    Give werewolfs a snare removal?? no snare removal makes them kinda useless in xv1 scenarios
    zDan - Xbox EU/NA

    I specialize in solo PvP on every class in the game,
    be sure to check out my YouTube for several 1vX and build videos!
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXkrJ3K68GHLn2-HgHjITsA
  • cmvet
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    stredd wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    lots of hybrid type sets out in the market now...

    if you're going to slot ww, you need to build for it...

    What sets did you have in mind? More importantly, are you thinking 1 offensive and 1 defensive set, or 2 offensive sets?

    Really curious what builds people are trying on their WWs because honestly I'm open to anything at this point.

    So a fun build I was playing in BG's a few weeks ago on my orc, sorc, ww..... Steadfast hero + curse eater + Zaan. Works well against dot builds. Run tri-sat food so you have around 17-18k magicka. You can cast quite a few heals in a row if needed.

    I'm currently testing another fun build on my orc sorc ww, but need more BG time with it. I'm currently wearing Pelinals + elf bane + zaan. It is amazing how many kills you get. Not quite as tanky as my previous build, but fun as hell. And does a lot of damage outside of ww.
    Edited by cmvet on October 15, 2019 4:16AM
  • EnOeZ
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
    Even without that bug it was borderline broken. In a decent team nothing was as scary as a WW. The ease at which they put out damage, even with just light attack spamming, was just stupid. Werewolf has always been strong, I never got the complaints about them being weak. Bleeds in combination with unmitigatable damage from torugs and *** monsterhelmets like zaan only inflated this. They deserved to be toned down.

    You réalise it is a 300 points ultimates that deprives you of:
    -All your passives (or almost)
    -10 skills
    -2 ultimates
    -ultimate generation

    With a huge hit box flagged "kill me fast" with fighters guild vulnerability and poison vulnerability

    With now no outstanding damage and one and only super hyper expensive heal and no snare removal?

    I am sorry you have been traumatised by one of us, but other players seem just to enjoy killing us, so easy nowadays.

    You realise the op werewolf you are talking about does not exist anymore since patches...
  • Skoomah
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
    Even without that bug it was borderline broken. In a decent team nothing was as scary as a WW. The ease at which they put out damage, even with just light attack spamming, was just stupid. Werewolf has always been strong, I never got the complaints about them being weak. Bleeds in combination with unmitigatable damage from torugs and *** monsterhelmets like zaan only inflated this. They deserved to be toned down.

    How many times did I poke you?
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
    Even without that bug it was borderline broken. In a decent team nothing was as scary as a WW. The ease at which they put out damage, even with just light attack spamming, was just stupid. Werewolf has always been strong, I never got the complaints about them being weak. Bleeds in combination with unmitigatable damage from torugs and *** monsterhelmets like zaan only inflated this. They deserved to be toned down.

    Lmao. I've fought werewolves with torugsand zaan,(when it was broke) I was on a 2h/resto Medium stamsorc and he was trying to kill me for 20min(unsuccessful)
    If you died to that I'm lost for words.
    Light attacks? That's literally the worst way possible of killing someone as a ww if you died to a la spamming ww im even more amazed.
    Ww is probably the most predictable play style ever how do you die to that?
    How do you die to someone with bad heals a highly predictable burst bad Constant damage, Terrible mobility?
    And if they are so strong how many wws do you see in pvp? Compared to other builds? They are good at potato mashing. Nothing more. If you consider yourself a somewhat competent player you shouldn't die to a ww unless severely outnumbered. Period. The last time I would say the ww was strong was back when pelinals was the měta and you could get 20k heal on a regular basis.
    What platform do you play on and what class /spec do you play?
    Edited by IlCanis_LupuslI on November 5, 2019 8:39AM
    Cp 1490
    Xbox-EU-AD
    Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.
  • Raudgrani
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    Used to LOVE playing WW. And I was pretty good at it too. Then WW were changed quite considerably, and according to some it was "mega buffed", I however didn't really like the changes and started playing other builds instead.

    Now we've had a tirade of nerfs over and over again on werewolf, and last time I tried it, the class was completely broke. The howl knockdown was a big issue for me, damage nerf after damage nerf took away like all power, now healing is total junk too. You can either build a useless glass cannon build who can howl twice and die from dots, or you can build a zero damage werewolf that can howl (heal) a few times more. There's like no middle ground afaik.

    With a group of like 4 good werewolves, you used to be able of taking on a huge number of enemies. Now you'd need a huge number of werewolves to take on a couple of good enemies.
  • Koensol
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
    Even without that bug it was borderline broken. In a decent team nothing was as scary as a WW. The ease at which they put out damage, even with just light attack spamming, was just stupid. Werewolf has always been strong, I never got the complaints about them being weak. Bleeds in combination with unmitigatable damage from torugs and *** monsterhelmets like zaan only inflated this. They deserved to be toned down.

    Lmao. I've fought werewolves with torugsand zaan,(when it was broke) I was on a 2h/resto Medium stamsorc and he was trying to kill me for 20min(unsuccessful)
    If you died to that I'm lost for words.
    Stopped reading at this point. One word: LMAO.
  • Qbiken
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    .
    Koensol wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Werwolfs were broken for too long back when torugs was meta. Good to see them in a more balanced place these days.

    Ye, lets balance something due to a confirmed bug (enchants procing from single target dots, which was usable on non werewolf setups before it got fixed)....sounds like a great way to balance the game.
    Even without that bug it was borderline broken. In a decent team nothing was as scary as a WW. The ease at which they put out damage, even with just light attack spamming, was just stupid. Werewolf has always been strong, I never got the complaints about them being weak. Bleeds in combination with unmitigatable damage from torugs and *** monsterhelmets like zaan only inflated this. They deserved to be toned down.

    Lmao. I've fought werewolves with torugsand zaan,(when it was broke) I was on a 2h/resto Medium stamsorc and he was trying to kill me for 20min(unsuccessful)
    If you died to that I'm lost for words.
    Stopped reading at this point. One word: LMAO.

    Ye I'm with koensol on this one. While I'm/was a werewolf enthusiast, there's no logical reason to defend the bugged ww bleed + torug combo in Murkmire. There wasn't a single specc in the game that could survive that (aside from cloaking away i guess), and it was just broken.

    Zaan doesn't really have anything to do with werewolf, and they're better of using other monsters sets imo, but that's another topic.
  • Qbiken
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    But then again @IlCanis_LupuslI ,the main reason people wanted ww nerfed was because it was one of the few things that was a threat against the "pvp elite" and 3-4 man premades (where I see people who wanted ww nerfed quite often in such contexts) im battlegrounds. Werewolf was annoying to adapt to because it had never been encountered before, hence why the so called "elite" hated it.

    Now we've a meta where people get carried by blackrose weapons and barely dies. Imagine if there was a tool that could've dealt with such things......ohh ye........
    Edited by Qbiken on November 9, 2019 11:49PM
  • Jimmy_The_Fixer
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    But then again @IlCanis_LupuslI ,the main reason people wanted ww nerfed was because it was one of the few things that was a threat against the "pvp elite" and 3-4 man premades (where I see people who wanted ww nerfed quite often in such contexts) im battlegrounds. Werewolf was annoying to adapt to because it had never been encountered before, hence why the so called "elite" hated it.

    Now we've a meta where people get carried by blackrose weapons and barely dies. Imagine if there was a tool that could've dealt with such things......ohh ye........

    People hated old WW because it had zero resource management, low skill ceiling, and the most popular and powerful builds were built around pure tankiness while spamming light attacks forever.

    New direction for werewolf is the right direction, 25% more powerful abilities with 25% increased cost, balanced. WW “mains” don’t want balance, they want an I-win button.
    Edited by Jimmy_The_Fixer on November 10, 2019 12:47AM
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    But then again @IlCanis_LupuslI ,the main reason people wanted ww nerfed was because it was one of the few things that was a threat against the "pvp elite" and 3-4 man premades (where I see people who wanted ww nerfed quite often in such contexts) im battlegrounds. Werewolf was annoying to adapt to because it had never been encountered before, hence why the so called "elite" hated it.

    Now we've a meta where people get carried by blackrose weapons and barely dies. Imagine if there was a tool that could've dealt with such things......ohh ye........

    People hated old WW because it had zero resource management, low skill ceiling, and the most popular and powerful builds were built around pure tankiness while spamming light attacks forever.

    New direction for werewolf is the right direction, 25% more powerful abilities with 25% increased cost, balanced. WW “mains” don’t want balance, they want an I-win button.
    WW ulti was never "I-win button". It was "Oh, s**t button" at best... :#
    Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on November 10, 2019 12:59AM
  • Chrlynsch
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    But then again @IlCanis_LupuslI ,the main reason people wanted ww nerfed was because it was one of the few things that was a threat against the "pvp elite" and 3-4 man premades (where I see people who wanted ww nerfed quite often in such contexts) im battlegrounds. Werewolf was annoying to adapt to because it had never been encountered before, hence why the so called "elite" hated it.

    Now we've a meta where people get carried by blackrose weapons and barely dies. Imagine if there was a tool that could've dealt with such things......ohh ye........

    People hated old WW because it had zero resource management, low skill ceiling, and the most popular and powerful builds were built around pure tankiness while spamming light attacks forever.

    New direction for werewolf is the right direction, 25% more powerful abilities with 25% increased cost, balanced. WW “mains” don’t want balance, they want an I-win button.

    I'd say we want a heal that is usable without dropping our offensive capabilities in order to maintain. (Dropping 25% of the power of our abilities in order to survive (aka equipping magic sustain sets or magic recovery glyphs), thus making the direction, 0% more powerful abilities, with 25% increase cost, not balanced

    I'd say we want a pack leader morph that is worth taking.

    But what do I know, I am just a Werewolf main with thousands of hours of Werewolf gamplay and theorycrafting under my pelt.
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • Jimmy_The_Fixer
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    Chrlynsch wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    But then again @IlCanis_LupuslI ,the main reason people wanted ww nerfed was because it was one of the few things that was a threat against the "pvp elite" and 3-4 man premades (where I see people who wanted ww nerfed quite often in such contexts) im battlegrounds. Werewolf was annoying to adapt to because it had never been encountered before, hence why the so called "elite" hated it.

    Now we've a meta where people get carried by blackrose weapons and barely dies. Imagine if there was a tool that could've dealt with such things......ohh ye........

    People hated old WW because it had zero resource management, low skill ceiling, and the most popular and powerful builds were built around pure tankiness while spamming light attacks forever.

    New direction for werewolf is the right direction, 25% more powerful abilities with 25% increased cost, balanced. WW “mains” don’t want balance, they want an I-win button.

    I'd say we want a heal that is usable without dropping our offensive capabilities in order to maintain. (Dropping 25% of the power of our abilities in order to survive (aka equipping magic sustain sets or magic recovery glyphs), thus making the direction, 0% more powerful abilities, with 25% increase cost, not balanced

    I'd say we want a pack leader morph that is worth taking.

    But what do I know, I am just a Werewolf main with thousands of hours of Werewolf gamplay and theorycrafting under my pelt.

    So you’d give WW heal a stamina cost instead of a magicka cost and scale it off offensive stats instead of HP? I’d agree with that change,. It would leave WW without a good way to spend mag, but that can probs be offloaded onto fear.

    Just happy to see someone who isn’t looking to make WW flatly more powerful than other setups.
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