the combination of zaan + onslaught OR ZAAN + soul harvest isn't a combo

zaan is strong but its not "definitely over preforming"

pls stop making nerf post

tossop wrote: »

Maybe not with CP because you can block it but in nocp u left without stamina after blocking 5sec of Zaan proc+defiled + 20% damage. Nerf it! Counter is shade or streak, not everyone using it.

Or you could stun and walk away.

The range is really short... just move further away... your mistake is standing there and blocking.

Here's an idea: let's just nerf everything. But if we did that, what would we talk about on the forums, where 75% of posts are pvpers asking for nerfs to whatever killed them most recently?

It was nerfed long time ago, no point in doing it again as it requires afk standing player and quite a time to kill anything that can selfheal.

Only issue I have with Zaan is how the LoS can be wonky at times. I'll have it ticking through walls. But I guess I am assuming it shouldn't do that, comparing with stuff like radiant destruction and soul assault.

Sounds like someone needs a vscp carry so they’ll stop calling for nerfs. Or, ya know, just break the tether and you won’t die...

ah ok, another bgs player asking for nerfs. Nothing new

So say Zaans gets nerfed. Then what? People start using Grothdarr more. People get killed by that as much as they did Zaans. Gonna ask that Grothdarr gets nerfed? Then whats next?

Rianai wrote: »

Just because too much/the wrong things get nerfed, it doesn't mean actually overperforming stuff shouldn't get nerfed too. In fact, nerfs to skills make sets like Zaan even more op, because balance is all relative.

Just think about it - Zaan

is completely free dmg - doesn't cost resources, bar space or a gcd
can be combined with a lot of additional pressure - dmg, ults, cc, gap closer, ...
can deal more dmg than most skills including ults
doesn't require much investment into offensive stats to deal massive dmg
has very limited counterplay
very easy to proc
more (single target) dmg than any other offensive monsterset

How can this be considered as balanced?

Takes the place of a monster set, and provides a crit bonus which doesn't even impact the damage of the set
Requires you to be in and remain in melee range
Deals damage over 5 seconds, requiring you to be in melee range for 5 seconds to gain it's full benefit
Provides crit, which doesn't help it's damage, and if you aren't specced for damage you are only killing bad players with it
Has enough counterplay. Stun, block, stun and run. Stay out of melee range of an opponent. Have HOTs up. Shield. Purge. Cloak.
Too easy to proc, meaning you cannot control the proc if you are light attack weaving. Which means it may proc in a time when your opponent is CC immune or when you are not prepared to burst. Sometimes, "easy to proc" is a negative.
It is damage over time, single target, that only does damage. There are no other monster sets that only provide single target damage over time that don't have other effects tacked on.

jaws343 wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Just because too much/the wrong things get nerfed, it doesn't mean actually overperforming stuff shouldn't get nerfed too. In fact, nerfs to skills make sets like Zaan even more op, because balance is all relative.

Just think about it - Zaan

is completely free dmg - doesn't cost resources, bar space or a gcd
can be combined with a lot of additional pressure - dmg, ults, cc, gap closer, ...
can deal more dmg than most skills including ults
doesn't require much investment into offensive stats to deal massive dmg
has very limited counterplay
very easy to proc
more (single target) dmg than any other offensive monsterset

How can this be considered as balanced?

Takes the place of a monster set, and provides a crit bonus which doesn't even impact the damage of the set
Requires you to be in and remain in melee range
Deals damage over 5 seconds, requiring you to be in melee range for 5 seconds to gain it's full benefit
Provides crit, which doesn't help it's damage, and if you aren't specced for damage you are only killing bad players with it
Has enough counterplay. Stun, block, stun and run. Stay out of melee range of an opponent. Have HOTs up. Shield. Purge. Cloak.
Too easy to proc, meaning you cannot control the proc if you are light attack weaving. Which means it may proc in a time when your opponent is CC immune or when you are not prepared to burst. Sometimes, "easy to proc" is a negative.
It is damage over time, single target, that only does damage. There are no other monster sets that only provide single target damage over time that don't have other effects tacked on.

Since when is providing an additional bonus a bad thing? Since when is melee range (Zaan is a bit above the usual melee range btw) a justification for making something op?
CC doesn't stop the proc. Going out of range isn't always possible, because the user doesn't become immobile/unable to use skills and it doesn't break the beam instantly. Blocking it costs tons of resources and doesn't mitigate the full dmg. Staying out of range all the time is impossible. HoTs won't outheal zaan + whatever else gets thrown at you during the proc. Shields are expensive and not always enough. Purge isn't guaranteed to remove it and has limited accessibility. Cloak does counter it reliable (well, as reliable as something can be in this broken game), but that's a nb only skill. One single reliable! counter, aviable to one single class. Yep, balanced.
It is rng, yes, but because it doesn't proc at range and only on la/ha, it is still somewhat controlable.
There are no monster sets that provide more single target dmg let alone ones that provide something in addition to "only" lots of free dmg. But there are skills - ultimates even - that provide only " single target damage over time that don't have other effects tacked on" - and they deal less dmg than zaan, and/or have more downsides.