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Secrecy is the worst move right now ZOS
GeorgeBlack
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You are improving your game, touching on existing fields.
You are not releasing new maps, skill lines, quests and voice acting when working on combat changes and class balance.
I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
These sort of changing periods of an established mmorpg should be were you get into a dialogue with the community.
Dont keep your moves a secret, I dont see what new product you might want to protect. Secrecy will prevent feedback on mistakes such us the blanket buff on DoTs and the nerf beyond functional stage on DoTs.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on September 28, 2019 10:56PM You are not releasing new maps, skill lines, quests and voice acting when working on combat changes and class balance.
I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
These sort of changing periods of an established mmorpg should be were you get into a dialogue with the community.
Dont keep your moves a secret, I dont see what new product you might want to protect. Secrecy will prevent feedback on mistakes such us the blanket buff on DoTs and the nerf beyond functional stage on DoTs.
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you have nothing to show, tell everybody that you have it, but it is a secret
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InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »If you have nothing to show, tell everybody that you have it, but it is a secret
Or they plan to continue flipping the balance either way to distract people from the lack of real content.8 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Considering how a lot of forum people address ZOS in their posts, I'm surprised they even have PTS. Totally not surprised they don't communicate more with us on the forums or about anything.
Players come from the last old MMO or go to the next shiny one. Any griping by players generally amounts to nothing, especially when the feedback is typically selfish "this hurts my particular playstyle so don't change it". All the negativity probably rightly falls on deaf ears.
The next wave of new players after the patch won't know any different and will probably still have a great time.
The only thing that will really kill ESO is grossly outdated graphics.
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While its true, everytime ZoS tried any communication the forum ripped them apart. Unfortunately they always shut down and prefer quiet damage control.
ZoS: We want A
Half forum now: What? A is stupid.
ZoS in future: Our A progressed to AA
Half forum then: What? You promised just A, AA is stupid.
ZoS in alternative future: We are done, A is here
Half forum then: What? We told you million times A is stupid.
This forum is cesspool of 3-4 groups of diverse opinions literally shitting on any change made or even suggested that one of those 3-4 groups benefits but they themself dont. Be it PVP vs PVE. Casual vs Elite. Magicka vs Stamina. I wouldnt want to enter any dialogue with this community. They hopefully talk with class reps and thats probably as good as it gets. Who do you even dialogue here? Even now, when half the forum is crying over these nerfs, there is other half making threads every day to nerf what hasnt been nerfed yet. Most threads are more politics discussion (aka find excuse or even some data to backup my statemene to improve what I play or nerf what hurts me most) than game.17 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos com on the forum goes south cause they do it wrong, they ignore people for months and let major bugs go live... which tend to make people angry
Forum reaction is no excuse for being bad at communicationEdited by Morgul667 on September 29, 2019 1:23AM8 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
If they say they are going to do something, then later have to revise that and do something different (sometimes, Ideas just don't work), they get accused of lying.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
If they say they are going to do something, then later have to revise that and do something different (sometimes, Ideas just don't work), they get accused of lying.
Its like a company not sharing its strategy and key targets
Feels like a boat without captain
Which means at some point were gonna hit an iceberg7 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZoS: Hey guys welcome to the year of the dragon. We have a year planned audit now. Here have +50% increase damage.
Half forum now: What? That's too much. You guys should roll this back to a previous state and try again.
ZoS in future: Our bad that was too much. Umm lets reduce everything by 60% and double resource costs now instead.
Half forum then: What? We just asked you to take it back and just redo it. What is your goal?
ZoS in alternative future: We hear you on class diversity, were on it. Here is a spammable kthx.
Half forum then: What? I thought you guys had this planned for a year? 3 months and were already digging ourselves into patch graves.
Thats seems to fit the time line so far.Edited by karekiz on September 29, 2019 4:24AM2 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭They can't reveal long term vision cause they don't have it. As simple as that. You can see it in game changes lately doing 180 degrees flip each new patch.Edited by Witar on September 29, 2019 5:05AMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.4 -
Calm_Fury✭✭✭✭✭Yes, this is really weird.
The post was basically a response to the playbase complaint that it looks like they are missing a direction.
Their response is just "we do, we just can't share it yet".
I personally think it would be 10x better to just say "Look, during the next 6 updates we will be gradually increase each class/spec identity and making each one more viable at each role by redesigning skills that are not very used to fulfill those roles. It won't happen in 1 patch but we will get there".
It is much better than saying they are working on class identity for this patch and showing one or two skills with minor changes then saying they can't say the rest.
ZOS doesn't need to give exact details, but what we have so far did absolutely NOTHING to show that they actually know where they want to go.
Meanwhile, GMs are quitting, guilds as disbanding and end game players and friends are dropping from the game like flies.
Just say what you are doing and that it will take time.3 -
Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭Let's see...after initial release, ZOS said something along the lines of it being easier to nerf one or two overperforming skills, instead of buffing all the underperforming ones. 2019...I don't think there's a skill that hasn't been nerfed, is there?1 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
Standardizing cost and damage formulas is a necessary precursor to introducing Spellcrafting. Spellcrafting can't happen without exactly the sort of changes they've been making. They've already got the skills designed and all of the unused art assets sitting there waiting, but couldn't balance it all because of the bulk of material they'd be adding. I think this is the ultimate reason Rob Garrett was brought onboard, because the prior team couldn't figure out a systematic and balanced approach to integrating a flexible SC system with existing skills. So he's standardizing them. I've said many times the vision behind it is great. It perfectly follows a hypothetical outline I wrote up 2-3 years ago explaining the steps they'd have to take to make it work. The only problem has been incompetent implementation by a heavy-handed combat lead who doesn't seem to have much of a grip on the math side of game design (which should've been a basic job requirement).
It looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, so... that's my guess.3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
If they say they are going to do something, then later have to revise that and do something different (sometimes, Ideas just don't work), they get accused of lying.
Its like a company not sharing its strategy and key targets
It is not like a company not sharing strategy and target. It is a company not sharing strategy and targets. At least, beyond broad strokes.
ZOS is so secretive, people driving by on the nearby interstate have to sign an NDA before they can proceed. When government agencies, like the NSA or CIA, want to update their security policies, they first consult with ZOS. Getting information from them is like pulling teeth... from Mars.
They've always been this way.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
SipofMaim✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
Standardizing cost and damage formulas is a necessary precursor to introducing Spellcrafting. Spellcrafting can't happen without exactly the sort of changes they've been making. They've already got the skills designed and all of the unused art assets sitting there waiting, but couldn't balance it all because of the bulk of material they'd be adding. I think this is the ultimate reason Rob Garrett was brought onboard, because the prior team couldn't figure out a systematic and balanced approach to integrating a flexible SC system with existing skills. So he's standardizing them. I've said many times the vision behind it is great. It perfectly follows a hypothetical outline I wrote up 2-3 years ago explaining the steps they'd have to take to make it work. The only problem has been incompetent implementation by a heavy-handed combat lead who doesn't seem to have much of a grip on the math side of game design (which should've been a basic job requirement).
It looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, so... that's my guess.
I'd love to believe this, but nothing they've done so far suggests an interest in adding complexity. Man, some form of spellcrafting could add back some of the flash and fun. Hard not to hope for it.
Gilliam is a math guy. It's his great strength. Can't imagine they'd hire him and then not hand him all the numbers and let him math out.2 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »If you have nothing to show, tell everybody that you have it, but it is a secret
Or they plan to continue flipping the balance either way to distract people from the lack of real content.
Well then I might just flip my wallet to soemwhere else, then. Each time they flipp the balance, they whittle down my will to play. I'm probably going to delete some characters when Update 24 gets live, if some of the changes remain as they are.
"hey look, we have a new idea that changes everything, let's use it right away" isn't a good way to change things. If the content is lacking and they're killing class identity and power fantasy, I'm not in the mood to spend a dime on them. Sure, they brag about the opposite. Enforcing class identity and "play teh way you want" and whatnot, but when what you do contradicts what you way, people notice. I can fill a cup with *** and call it tea, the smell will give it away.2 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
If they say they are going to do something, then later have to revise that and do something different (sometimes, Ideas just don't work), they get accused of lying.
I know thats usually the thing but if they had outright said that as a reason for not saying it - it likely would of gone down well its fairly logical.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »I dont understand the comment "we cant reveal our long term vision in these efforts"
Standardizing cost and damage formulas is a necessary precursor to introducing Spellcrafting. Spellcrafting can't happen without exactly the sort of changes they've been making. They've already got the skills designed and all of the unused art assets sitting there waiting, but couldn't balance it all because of the bulk of material they'd be adding. I think this is the ultimate reason Rob Garrett was brought onboard, because the prior team couldn't figure out a systematic and balanced approach to integrating a flexible SC system with existing skills. So he's standardizing them. I've said many times the vision behind it is great. It perfectly follows a hypothetical outline I wrote up 2-3 years ago explaining the steps they'd have to take to make it work. The only problem has been incompetent implementation by a heavy-handed combat lead who doesn't seem to have much of a grip on the math side of game design (which should've been a basic job requirement).
It looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, so... that's my guess.
I'd love to believe this, but nothing they've done so far suggests an interest in adding complexity. Man, some form of spellcrafting could add back some of the flash and fun. Hard not to hope for it.
Gilliam is a math guy. It's his great strength. Can't imagine they'd hire him and then not hand him all the numbers and let him math out.
i doubt he did the math when he was in that recent livestream. Ive seen all the math i need from him.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭Zos development got hit with meridias.
Miss
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Forum outrage blocks stupid change
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I totally get the frustration. But DK has always been one of the most powerful classes in PvP if not both more of play. They will survive this.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They know as soon as the notes release its game over. Screw it, I'm quitting now! Later ***0 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭that’s what happens when you get a bunch of socially awkward nerds running an MMO game.3 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭They can keep next dlc to them self to build up hype but they should communicate about balance changes.
Extreme negativity and chaos of community is not an excuse. Thos who think it shoyld be excuse are emotional children.
There is a player base that you sell your game but you dont communicate with them. Why? Because it "makes you feel bad". Thats not an excuse.
If players' communication lead to more disapproval from player base, it would be good excuse.2 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've posted this so many places buuuuuuuuuuut
This is a good way to get your community to leave.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.1 -
Recent✭✭✭✭✭
✭They may aswell keep making all the changes they want every 3 months or so and give us ' Eso classic'.
I prefer the broken version moreso than the brokener version
Jks aside..that's how I cope. Reverse the nerfs reset the game lets go backwards because at least eso didn't feel so chaotic..
The upcoming nerfs to DD is not being welcomed by the majority. If the majority of us have no say then who does?
To me that is the biggest concern we should all be worried about.
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