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World Passives (vampire/werewolf/MORTALS)
pierrenuiz
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I'd like to see new passives lines one for vampires (does exist), one werewolf and one for normal mortals .
every body is a vampire for the special passives
I'm sure we could find good passives for mortals humans too
Edited by pierrenuiz on September 25, 2019 1:35PM every body is a vampire for the special passives
I'm sure we could find good passives for mortals humans too
5
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Vizikul✭✭✭✭I think you mean mortals, only 4 out of the 10 races are humans.Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist1 -
Asys✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »What weaknesses will mortals have to offset their buffs?
gamblingProud member of the IDGAF+ community8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you mean mortals, only 4 out of the 10 races are humans.
Good catch.
Also, WWs do have passives though OP suggests they do not. Since they do not have a downside when not in WW form they do not get benefit of passives. The same reason would apply to mortal passives.Edited by idk on September 25, 2019 1:33PM2 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are such passives for mortals already. You take less damage from fire, poison and FG skills.12 -
pierrenuiz✭✭✭yeah and the result is .... everybody is vampire in pve
I dont like the idea of debuff when you do a choice , but having different buff for each choice you do . I want to be a vampire I have thiese advantages, I stay mortal so I have this ones ...
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Nah.pierrenuiz wrote: »I'd like to see new passives lines one for vampires (does exist), one werewolf and one for normal mortals .
Mortals need no passives, they are the baseline after all.
The whole system is set up for giving the bloodsucking fiends and part-time furries a special passive & skill line, balanced by special drawbacks...
Not everyone, though it could be debated that the vampires have too many advantages and too few drawbacks...pierrenuiz wrote: »every body is a vampire for the special passives
...I personally would chan ge them quite a bit, not in a "game effect drawback" kind of way, but in an fluff-powered "more annoying to play" kind of way... but I said this before:TheShadowScout wrote: »Yeah, there is a lot that could and perhaps should be done to revamp those bloodsucking fiends!
Foremost is the justice system interactions... Necromancing is illegal so we have a mechanic for this... it would only make sense is simply being a vampire would also get the guards riled up, yes? So, make all vampire skills a "criminal act" and also add a "vampire detection chance" per stage, say, 20% at 1, 40% at 2, 80% at 3 and auto at 4, with a "kill on sight" bounty if they find out you're a bloodsucking fiend as the guards come after you with stake and torch, cannot use vendors who would just screech and cower in fear at the "monster" (remember how people reacted to vampires in those rivenspire questings!), etc...
...but also add a "masquerade" skill to toggle that will lower your appearance and thus detection chance by one stage while active - at the cost of one skill slot (meaning, zero chance and completely mortal looking when using that one at stage 1) - just like Count Verandis Ravenwatch obviously is using during the first meeting in Shornhelm!
And also, I would love to see a lot more of the good old vampire clichés brought into ESO vampirism, to make these characters more feel like the classics rather then "just another PC with an extra skill line"...
I would love to see vampires also have a chance of auto-attacking innocents when on stage four. Just a "overwhelming bloodthirst" thing if blood-starved... makes sense, yes? Or perhaps add a "stage five" where this happens, as sign that your vampire has their blood thirst drow for too long and is actually starving now, perhaps with some hefty penalties as well to make it impossible for people to just "park their vampire at S-4" to gain the game benefits without some effort to keep them there or risk sliding into the "bad end" stage...
I would love to see some reason for vampires to shy away from "running water" - it could be a annoyingly reduced swimming speed, or a steady, massive magica drain while swimming... hey, it IS a classic, is it not?
I would love to see a "charm" skill or passive, to allow them to nibble at civilians without it being all crime-ish (as long as noone else sees it, of course). That one -could- also be useful as CC in combat to momentarily daze opponents (although, in most myths this "dominating gaze" only really works if the victim looks deep into the vampires eyes, not exactly something combat-useful...)
I would love to see the vampire feeding to not just -stun- but also damage! In days of blade of woe, it could at least suck away half their victims HP, right? Also, while talking about that... is it not annoying that those two are on the same trigger, and sometimes you use the wrong one if the mob you target moves half a step at the wrong time? Why not combine them both into a "Bite of Woe" that counts for both feedings and assassinations?
I would love to see player vampires use the same skills like common bloodfiends! That shadowy teleport! Definitely should be added to their arsenal, wouldn't you think? Also, bloodfiends... why are those lowly creatures attacking their vampiric superiors? Should they not know their place and realize that this is not a meal, but another undead, and maybe all be "yellow" non-aggro towards player vamps?
I would love to see vampires get a special mount that is -only- useable by characters that are vampires, with some sort of "bat swarm transformation" visuals...
I would love to see vampires stop geting food buff benefits... I mean, should they not be incapable of those, yet get "recently fed" buffs instead? And possibly have the option of making special "vampire" drink recipes with -actual blood- as part of the recipe that gives vampires only special buffs?
I would love to see vampires get a way to store blood in alchemically treated vials for "later use" when feeding at "full" (to sip later for better stage control, or to use in the aforementioned recipes)?
I would love to see vampires have an "vampire sanctuary" where they can gather and sociualize with other vampy players, have vampire-themed gear & furniture vendors, and vampire-themed crafting stations, vampire-themed daily quests (like, "sneak into this nobles home and put the bite towards their nubile daughter to teach them not to mess with the rulers of the night..." or "go into that dwelve and ambush the vampire hunter somewhere in it" or "bring this gift to the vampire lord that lives in this place..." - randomly selected and all over the maps!) and pomme-se-sang NPCs to snack on... they -could- redo and expand the map for the initiation quest for that one, could they not?0 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭There are such passives for mortals already. You take less damage from fire, poison and FG skills.
Not really, no. The absence of a weakness does not equal a passive ability, it's not a bonus you have to invest a skill point in - and lore wise mortals are just as weak to poison and fire.
To the OP: I had the same thought of a mortality skill line before. I actually don't remember whether I had suggested it before and it was buried under all the complaints and nerf threads or I didn't bother to share it with this negative community in the first place.
But I still remember one of my ideas for a passive ability - Gourmet: increases the effectiveness of food and drinks by x%. [The idea is to give mortals some bonuses but no further weaknesses. To make up for the absence of a weakness, the bonuses would be rather small, when compared to vampires and werewolves.] Lorewise a gourmet passive would make sense - I mean vampires are blood suckers and werewolves eat raw meat. We mortals definitely care more about our food.Edited by Vizikul on September 25, 2019 2:37PMPugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist1 -
pierrenuiz✭✭✭nobody want drawbacks , its good for rp that's all , the necromancer rules in town are fun 3 times after its just boring
Yeah a food buff could be nice !!0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »What weaknesses will mortals have to offset their buffs?
They're delicious.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've seen this one a few times over the years, and, to be honest, if it had been set up from the beginning, it could have been appealing.
One of the best suggestions I ever saw was Werewolf/Vampire/Dawnguard as open world PvP factions. If that had been the design goals from the word go, it could have lead to some pretty cool gameplay.
But, now, that would require completely ripping up the Werewolf and Vampire systems and starting fresh.1 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about this as an idea.
Vampire: Reduces the effectiveness of Racial Passives by 50%
Werewolf: Racial Passives no longer active while in Werewolf Form.
PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc4 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭pierrenuiz wrote: »yep why not but again it's a nerf ... and we hate nerf
I agree that I too don't like being nerfed, but perhaps if the Vampire and Werewolf passives were buffed to compensate it wouldn't be so bad.
Example: Though this would be a pain to balance, cut racial bonuses by 50% for Vampires, and add a special Vampire/Racial bonus for Humans, Elves, and Humanoids.
Do the same for WerewolvesEdited by kathandira on September 25, 2019 2:50PMPS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »pierrenuiz wrote: »yep why not but again it's a nerf ... and we hate nerf
I agree that I too don't like being nerfed, but perhaps if the Vampire and Werewolf passives were buffed to compensate it wouldn't be so bad.
Example: Though this would be a pain to balance, cut racial bonuses by 50% for Vampires, and add a special Vampire/Racial bonus for Humans, Elves, and Humanoids.
Do the same for Werewolves
Aww...dangit....
I came in here all set to say...
Mortals DO have passives...they are called Racial Passives...
Not think of Fact that V/WW still benefit from them...
N evil kath had same thought but went ahead n Nerfed my idea....lol
Sooo...umm...everyone should just....
Oh Look! A Cute Kitty!!!
Edited by xxthir13enxx on September 25, 2019 3:43PM3 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The Vampire skill line is totally broken. I am amazed there are characters in the game who aren’t vampires.
1 a 10% buff for Mag and Stam recovery in return for doing nothing... you would be insane not to take this.
2 Vampies become MORE powerful the longer they starve... they are actually punished for feeding. You get stronger the less actual vampire stuff you do.
There is no point in having a mortal skill line
There are 10 mortal races on Tamriel. All of them die. Some of them with my axe through their head. Even werewolves are mortal. Vampires are theoretically immortal, but they too can die.0 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭There is no point in having a mortal skill line
There are 10 mortal races on Tamriel. All of them die. Some of them with my axe through their head. Even werewolves are mortal. Vampires are theoretically immortal, but they too can die.
"Immortal" does not mean, what you think it does. Being immortal means you cannot die of old age (or illnesses), but you can still be slain. Gods are immortal but not unslayable. They can be killed in real life mythologies (Greek, Latin, Native American, etc.), as well as in the TES Lore.Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh, I am liking this one!kathandira wrote: »How about this as an idea.
Vampire: Reduces the effectiveness of Racial Passives by 50%
Werewolf: Racial Passives no longer active while in Werewolf Form.
...unless it also came with some fire vulvnerability, and consideirng just how many mobs and players like to use fire... well...The Vampire skill line is totally broken. I am amazed there are characters in the game who aren’t vampires.
1 a 10% buff for Mag and Stam recovery in return for doing nothing... you would be insane not to take this.
That was to represent their growing desperation to feed, methinks, how they get more and more bestial and frenzied... much like a desperate human will fight with much greater effort then someone not having their life on the line and such.2 Vampies become MORE powerful the longer they starve... they are actually punished for feeding. You get stronger the less actual vampire stuff you do.
But yeah, there really ought to be -some- drawback to not feeding. Like... as I keep mentioning... auto-attacking innocents. Or a "stage five" where your vampire actually gets a hefts dose of debuff and health loss from staving to death... uhm... well... starving to torpor, perhaps?
Agreed.There is no point in having a mortal skill line
...
How-ever...
...there -could- be a "monster hunter" world skill line, that has passives against special critters, and will -only- be given to people who are not secretly monsters in disguise...
There also could be some other sort of "undead" world skill... well, more like "condition" skill/passives line, for those who want to play as Draugr/Liches/Death Knights and so on... but I reckon that one would be rather iffy, as "undead" they could after all have difficulties passing as mortals, and thus might be "kill on sight" permanently which would make adventuring somewhat... difficult.
Still... who knows?
Well, actually what "immortal" means differs according to what definition of the term someone would apply. And yes, that "cannot die of age of illness" is -ONE- possible definition. One possible "degree" of immortality. There are others, including "cannot die at all, no way, not gonna happen until the end of the universe and possibly beyond" or somewhere in between..."Immortal" does not mean, what you think it does. Being immortal means you cannot die of old age (or illnesses), but you can still be slain. Gods are immortal but not unslayable. They can be killed in real life mythologies (Greek, Latin, Native American, etc.), as well as in the TES Lore.
But yes, that being said, in ESO lore even divine beings can possibly be killed, though it generally takes another being of at least equal power (or more then one) to actually make it stick.
BtW, even the classic "immortal" is not as immortal in many stories as one might think. Since it only covers the -physical- aspects of age, not the mental ones... some stories try to cover that, show how someone who lives for millenia would chenge mentally and eventually become so overcome by ennui and depression that they might not even -want- to carry on existing... a classic cliché of some fantasy stories is the poor sod cursed with complete immortality who spends all their time trying to find a way to finally die... because absolutely everything in their life is a "been there, did that, a thousand times over" and they are just sick and tired of it. (and yes, often they are the tragic-ish villain who is ready to destroy the world just to bring about their own death and must be stopped despite being completely and utterly immortal... which can end in some interesting story plots!)0 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Nah.pierrenuiz wrote: »I'd like to see new passives lines one for vampires (does exist), one werewolf and one for normal mortals .
Mortals need no passives, they are the baseline after all.
The whole system is set up for giving the bloodsucking fiends and part-time furries a special passive & skill line, balanced by special drawbacks...
Not everyone, though it could be debated that the vampires have too many advantages and too few drawbacks...pierrenuiz wrote: »every body is a vampire for the special passives
...I personally would chan ge them quite a bit, not in a "game effect drawback" kind of way, but in an fluff-powered "more annoying to play" kind of way... but I said this before:TheShadowScout wrote: »Yeah, there is a lot that could and perhaps should be done to revamp those bloodsucking fiends!
Foremost is the justice system interactions... Necromancing is illegal so we have a mechanic for this... it would only make sense is simply being a vampire would also get the guards riled up, yes? So, make all vampire skills a "criminal act" and also add a "vampire detection chance" per stage, say, 20% at 1, 40% at 2, 80% at 3 and auto at 4, with a "kill on sight" bounty if they find out you're a bloodsucking fiend as the guards come after you with stake and torch, cannot use vendors who would just screech and cower in fear at the "monster" (remember how people reacted to vampires in those rivenspire questings!), etc...
...but also add a "masquerade" skill to toggle that will lower your appearance and thus detection chance by one stage while active - at the cost of one skill slot (meaning, zero chance and completely mortal looking when using that one at stage 1) - just like Count Verandis Ravenwatch obviously is using during the first meeting in Shornhelm!
And also, I would love to see a lot more of the good old vampire clichés brought into ESO vampirism, to make these characters more feel like the classics rather then "just another PC with an extra skill line"...
I would love to see vampires also have a chance of auto-attacking innocents when on stage four. Just a "overwhelming bloodthirst" thing if blood-starved... makes sense, yes? Or perhaps add a "stage five" where this happens, as sign that your vampire has their blood thirst drow for too long and is actually starving now, perhaps with some hefty penalties as well to make it impossible for people to just "park their vampire at S-4" to gain the game benefits without some effort to keep them there or risk sliding into the "bad end" stage...
I would love to see some reason for vampires to shy away from "running water" - it could be a annoyingly reduced swimming speed, or a steady, massive magica drain while swimming... hey, it IS a classic, is it not?
I would love to see a "charm" skill or passive, to allow them to nibble at civilians without it being all crime-ish (as long as noone else sees it, of course). That one -could- also be useful as CC in combat to momentarily daze opponents (although, in most myths this "dominating gaze" only really works if the victim looks deep into the vampires eyes, not exactly something combat-useful...)
I would love to see the vampire feeding to not just -stun- but also damage! In days of blade of woe, it could at least suck away half their victims HP, right? Also, while talking about that... is it not annoying that those two are on the same trigger, and sometimes you use the wrong one if the mob you target moves half a step at the wrong time? Why not combine them both into a "Bite of Woe" that counts for both feedings and assassinations?
I would love to see player vampires use the same skills like common bloodfiends! That shadowy teleport! Definitely should be added to their arsenal, wouldn't you think? Also, bloodfiends... why are those lowly creatures attacking their vampiric superiors? Should they not know their place and realize that this is not a meal, but another undead, and maybe all be "yellow" non-aggro towards player vamps?
I would love to see vampires get a special mount that is -only- useable by characters that are vampires, with some sort of "bat swarm transformation" visuals...
I would love to see vampires stop geting food buff benefits... I mean, should they not be incapable of those, yet get "recently fed" buffs instead? And possibly have the option of making special "vampire" drink recipes with -actual blood- as part of the recipe that gives vampires only special buffs?
I would love to see vampires get a way to store blood in alchemically treated vials for "later use" when feeding at "full" (to sip later for better stage control, or to use in the aforementioned recipes)?
I would love to see vampires have an "vampire sanctuary" where they can gather and sociualize with other vampy players, have vampire-themed gear & furniture vendors, and vampire-themed crafting stations, vampire-themed daily quests (like, "sneak into this nobles home and put the bite towards their nubile daughter to teach them not to mess with the rulers of the night..." or "go into that dwelve and ambush the vampire hunter somewhere in it" or "bring this gift to the vampire lord that lives in this place..." - randomly selected and all over the maps!) and pomme-se-sang NPCs to snack on... they -could- redo and expand the map for the initiation quest for that one, could they not?
If they implemented those changes, the only Vampires in the game would be role players.
As for a mortal skill line, you already have one its called the Fighters guild that gives you skills that pack more of a punch against players that choose to become Vampires and Werewolfs.
And before someone says "but Vampires and Werewolfs can use it too" The skills don't do bonus damage to the average joe like they do to Vampires and Werewolfs.
If you don't feel like slotting Fighters guilds skills take advantage of the Fire and Poison weakness, there are plenty of proc sets in the game that give bonus fire and poison damage, you can't expect one set up to work on all opponent types, if your fighting lots of Vampire and Werewolf players have a gear set up to counter them.
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Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think you mean mortals, only 4 out of the 10 races are humans.
Well if you really wanted to nit pick you could actually say they are not human because humans are from earth and not nirn in the elder scrolls universe. They are "human like" and technically come from the wandering Ehlnofey. Not to mention breton are half elven.0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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And what would be the problem with playing vampire becoming enough of a bother that the ones who are only in for the benefits get dioscouraged, considering the usual complaint of:If they implemented those changes, the only Vampires in the game would be role players.pierrenuiz wrote: »every body is a vampire for the special passives
Weeeelllll...As for a mortal skill line, you already have one its called the Fighters guild that gives you skills that pack more of a punch against players that choose to become Vampires and Werewolfs.
...not as much anymore.
It has been nerfed quite a bit from how the FG skills messed up vamps back in the day... but yeah, if you gear up for it and select your skills carefully, mortals can do well enough against "monsters"...
Still, it -would- make sense to have some more stuff for mortals that want to fight monsters... doesn't have to be skills, really, I wish we could have, say, "aedric water grenades" that -only- damage vampires, or "wolfbane stink bombs" that only affect werewolves...
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Vizikul✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »Well, actually what "immortal" means differs according to what definition of the term someone would apply. And yes, that "cannot die of age of illness" is -ONE- possible definition. One possible "degree" of immortality. There are others, including "cannot die at all, no way, not gonna happen until the end of the universe and possibly beyond" or somewhere in between...
That is indeed another possible definition but it is stretched too far. If we apply that definition then there are no mortals in the TES Universe because every being possesses an immortal, everlasting and unslayable soul. The death of a "mortal" is then nothing but the decay of its fragile body, which will just unleash the soul.
Not even Molag Bal is able to destroy it, although he tries really hard to accomplish this. Considering the events going on in his realm cold harbor, he must be in that regard the hardest trying tryhard that ever tried hard - and he fails miserably.I think you mean mortals, only 4 out of the 10 races are humans.
Well if you really wanted to nit pick you could actually say they are not human because humans are from earth and not nirn in the elder scrolls universe. They are "human like" and technically come from the wandering Ehlnofey.
I'm not sure what you are on about. Species aren't categorized by their origin but by their physical properties. Redguards, Imperials, Bretons and Nords were inspired by real life folks. They are fictional adaptations of human beings, and in the end result, they are humans.
The same can be seen in the Lord of the Rings. They are called Humans, despite the fact that they originated from Middle Earth.Not to mention breton are half elven.
Talking about nit picking, no bretons are not half elven. If an elf mates with a human, their child is a half elf. But if that half elf mates with another human, that offspring of theirs is not a half elf. This is exactly what happened with the Bretons. They might have some elven genes remaining but over the generations it thinned out by such a degree, that Bretons can not be considered half elven but in fact humans.
Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭All playable races in TES series are humans. Every real fan should know that. Now about skill line - it would be cool to have something for non vampires /WW. An idea for possibly DLC? Dawn guard? Merida's champion? Sure, why not 0
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭you want a bonus for being normal?
listen, just because yor mom told you all your life that you are special doesnt mean you are...1
