PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade

brandonv516 · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Those magblade builds use onslaught and mechanical acuity. If you’re down with nerfing onslaught then by all means let’s nerf it.

You’re pointing at the class and trying to skirt the real issue because you want to keep an OP stamina option - onslaught. You’re coming across as really biased.

If an ultimate is making all sorts of specs look overpowered, and that's reason to nerf things, they probably should take another look...at...the...do I need to say it?

Yhoden · September 2019

Magblade vs Templar or DK no chance. cant out heal the damage. would be nice to include some HOTS. Or could implement the blood shield idea from last patch (morph of mirage to give a shield when damage taken gives health back), would bring some uniqueness to the table and solve some of the issues magblades face. Also having shade range at 22m is a bad idea. IMO.

Also why not include major sorcery into siphoning attacks. (just like the netch that provides sustain + sorcery buff from the warden class) .

From what I have noticed as a magblade player (excluding stamblades), the class has been constantly nerfed every patch even though its been the weakest class in open world pvp. Makes me wonder if ZOS hates the class in general.

Buffing the skills that most magblades dont use and nerfing the other skills does not help to push diverse skill set imo.
Magblade is quite frustrating to play patch after patch.

These are just my opinion on it (I could be wrong). would love to hear our fellow magblades, take on it and from the devs.

Yhoden · September 2019

could you please remove the time cast time in soul tether.

thankyourat · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Have you ever thought that maybe those magblades are just overall a lot better than you are? Most nightblades aren’t built like crap we are built to play in Cyrodil so that means adding in a lot more sustain and mobility. Also magblade isn’t a top tier dueling class anymore it’s not bad but it’s not great either like it was before murkmire. Stam dk, magdk, magplar and stamplar are all better dueling classes than magblade.

On my dueling build with 62k mag and almost 3k spell damage my bow tooltip is about 30k but I would never try to 1vX with that build because it doesn’t have the survivability or sustain needed for open world Cyrodil. If you are getting hit by 15.7k bows you didn’t have any buffs up. I’ve hit people for over 20k bow procs but those are rare. Light armor builds I usually hit for 15k, medium armor I usually hit for around 12k and heavy armor I usually hit around 8k. This is assuming that the bow crits and I have the damage boost from soul harvest and minor vulnerability from lightning enchant.

In no way is stamina crap. Stamden, stamplar , and stam dk are all elite classes stam dk is probably the best class in the whole game. Also any class that wears 3 damage sets will hit like a truck. I’ve been hit with 10k d-swings and 17k onslaughts

It's cute you think I'm bad because I get hit by 15k bows by a limited selection of nightblades. If you read my original post I said while having armor cap in game. He's a crit based build and always crits bows, it's not just me but half the people who duel them. This is true for a limited selection.

While I think bow is overscaled, I also forget the average player is bad and find a way to blame everything else but a good built class and the potential it can have.

Nightblades bow is probably the only reason it's a good class in PVP tbh, but those built right definitely make it overpowered and there's a reason why on PTS they don't duel because they're afraid someone will cry nerf.

I'll post a few videos if I can of it hitting constantly over 10k with me at 35k physical and spell resis with 2.5k crit resis. And all dots purged.

Your knowledge of pts is showing to saying dk is still #1. DK took the biggest meta change overall. It took the hardest nerfs.

If you played you'd realize certain stamina classes took a large hit and can't pressure as easily. Stamden and stamplar right now are doing the best to pressure while everyone else is going magicka.

If you get hit by dswing, are you bad? I'd say it lands 1/10th the time. And yes onslaught hits hard. But, all Ulta left for stamina is onslaught, leap, and bow.

I didn’t say you were bad one time. I was implying that the players you were getting beat by are simply better than you. There are many levels to the player base so you can be a good player and still have players better than you. 10k is a lot different than 15k. a high damage magblade will hit you consistently with around 10k bow procs if all their damage procs at once and the skill crits. They basically give up all defense and sustain to hit like this though.

The thing about magblade is you don’t need to apply a ton of pressure to kill them because they have the worse healing in game. Stam dk is unkillable for the most part and will be even harder to kill now that dots are nerfed but healing stayed the same. The amount of pressure you have to apply to kill a stam dk is high while the amount of pressure you need to kill a magblade is low. I can guarantee no one will be switching their Stam dks to magblade anytime soon.

echo2omega · September 2019

Nerf Cloak/Shadowy Disguise when?

Because this skill does SO much more than just make you invisible for 3 seconds.
1. While invisible DOTs no longer deal damage. Added bonus: you can still heal from direct healing and HOT skills.
2. It allows you to completely disengage from combat.
3. Most AOE abilities are too small. With any form of movement speed bonus you can out distance the AOE area with little to no effort.
4. All single target attacks miss.
5. Conterplay skills detect area are so tiny (if the skill even works) that they are not worth using.

It is a low skill/no skill high reward ability.

Changes:
Make the skill do 1 thing and 1 thing only. Invisible for 3 seconds.
1. You still take DOT damage. (it does not have to break the invisibility. you still need to take the damage)
2. Single target attack can still hit. You are invisible, not invulnerable. (it does not have to break the invisibility. you still need to take the damage)
3. Make detect skills actually work 100% of the time...100% of the time.

Szende · September 2019

echo2omega wrote: »

Nerf Cloak/Shadowy Disguise when?

Because this skill does SO much more than just make you invisible for 3 seconds.
1. While invisible DOTs no longer deal damage. Added bonus: you can still heal from direct healing and HOT skills.
2. It allows you to completely disengage from combat.
3. Most AOE abilities are too small. With any form of movement speed bonus you can out distance the AOE area with little to no effort.
4. All single target attacks miss.
5. Conterplay skills detect area are so tiny (if the skill even works) that they are not worth using.

It is a low skill/no skill high reward ability.

Changes:
Make the skill do 1 thing and 1 thing only. Invisible for 3 seconds.
1. You still take DOT damage. (it does not have to break the invisibility. you still need to take the damage)
2. Single target attack can still hit. You are invisible, not invulnerable. (it does not have to break the invisibility. you still need to take the damage)
3. Make detect skills actually work 100% of the time...100% of the time.

Well... i dont understand the whining for cloak nerf. Its easy to counter if people want to use even one ability for that.
Cloak works fine if you gets finally some distance with it first.

Your suggestions actually makes Shadowy Disguise a useless skill, and killing the nightblade's identity. We vanish with the cloak. We are squishy, hard to hit/catch. Personally i do not use any coak counter, but somehow i still can kill nightblades.

hakan · September 2019

echo2omega wrote: »

Nerf Cloak/Shadowy Disguise when?

Because this skill does SO much more than just make you invisible for 3 seconds.
1. While invisible DOTs no longer deal damage. Added bonus: you can still heal from direct healing and HOT skills.
2. It allows you to completely disengage from combat.
3. Most AOE abilities are too small. With any form of movement speed bonus you can out distance the AOE area with little to no effort.
4. All single target attacks miss.
5. Conterplay skills detect area are so tiny (if the skill even works) that they are not worth using.

It is a low skill/no skill high reward ability.

Changes:
Make the skill do 1 thing and 1 thing only. Invisible for 3 seconds.
1. You still take DOT damage. (it does not have to break the invisibility. you still need to take the damage)
2. Single target attack can still hit. You are invisible, not invulnerable. (it does not have to break the invisibility. you still need to take the damage)
3. Make detect skills actually work 100% of the time...100% of the time.

with that logic, we should deal direct damage while invis and still not get detected unless the target uses invis counter.

merevie · September 2019

I just figured out and golded my stamblade gear 5 days ago, after being pretty much unable to play it for a year due to nerf nerf nerf. Then we all see this nerf #4. Just delete the class. Really. Just delete it. Start with your own toon. We should have a sacrificial ceremony on the werewolf altar. There goes the guy who literally cut up his own class.

Mageblade...again - managed to get around the attempts at destruction thanks to last patch. But it's being nerfed already. I'm not good at Math. But you said you were making changes for balance -using Math. Was your Math so terribly wrong then? How can you tell us 'this is balanced now' and then 'oh now it is balanced' with enormous nerfs to what you said was right? NO credibility left. One of those was what, a 50% change?! Not a .00005%. What the ?

People are quitting and losing huge resources ingame due to you people. Try to figure out how to do this ONCE, and CORRECTLY.

brandonv516 · September 2019

The Soul Tether change is going to be good in a lot of situations. I really like what the team did here.

Because this ultimate has an offensive and
now moreso a defensive nature, the cast time makes sense (even though I despise it).

However, please remove the cast time on Soul Siphon as it only has a defensive nature.

Sahidom · September 2019

I'm going to toss this monkey out there. Change Shadow Disguise to be a utility-defensive skill by removing the critical hit success, and replacing the following mods:

1. Retain the Invisibility effect
2. Replace the critical hit success with a 1.6 second Dodge Effect.
3. Magicka costs equals stamina Dodge Roll costs; but +10% accumulative cost penalty for repetitive casting.

When you vanish (invisibility) the initial 1.6 seconds of the 3 second duration bestows dodge roll protection while still leaving the remaining 1.4 seconds where damage can prematurely reveal you. All detection sources will negate the invisibility effect of the skill (e..g. making the user visible) but not the dodge roll protection.

Aztlan · September 2019

No

Szende · September 2019

Really, just no. Cloak is fine. Good utility skill. Its already expensive, easy to counter. Cloak gets enough and now fine.

Sahidom · September 2019

Szende wrote: »

Really, just no. Cloak is fine. Good utility skill. Its already expensive, easy to counter. Cloak gets enough and now fine.

The skill utility doesn't change except the change would offer NB both an offensive ingress and defensive egress.

thermatico · September 2019

Please help MagBlade sustain. So far I have found the below set to sustain pretty well.

Race: Breton
Seducer - armor
Magnus Gift - jewelry/staffs (3 mag recovery glyphs obv)
Chokethorn - Helm
Shadowrend - Shoulder

This way I can cast a couple rotations before depleting mana pool.

Thx

MusCanus · September 2019

It's not about balance, but for the love of the god remove that Relentless Focus green visual effect already. I guess back then it symbolized minor endurance the ability had, but now it's long gone. Nightblades were supposed to be all about dark, not to look like sneaking glowing christmas tree. Merciless Resolve doesn't have that ugly effect, why should RF have it?

Mayrael · September 2019

1. Shadow Image range can't go live, it will finish off remaining magblades.
2. Grim focus and morphs is overnerfed. It should be hard hitting offensive skill not some kind of mix between defensive and offensive bs. Remove the protection but give instead empower for the duration/next 5 LA.
Replace the heal with something else or make it work on full distance, in current state it's obsolete.
3. Path of darkness and morphs are total garbage. It needs some love, just look at Templars ritual. Increase its cost but make it useful.
4. Mass hysteria is poor brother of turn evil. It needs some kind of uniqness back. Maybe add dispell component to it. If feared you remove up to 2 buffs from the enemy.

From all of those changes only Relentless would be a buff to stamblades while all the other things would buff most of all magblades which are in a terrible state.

tsaescishoeshiner · September 2019

Stamblade could use some mobility.

Is it possible to add the 25% movement in sneak/invisibility from Concealed Weapon to the base skill so that Surprise Attack can use it?
It's unfortunate losing a stun and a spammable in order to get the nice movement speed bonus

Potato_Salad · September 2019

Nightblades offensive kit i

Mayrael wrote: »

1. Shadow Image range can't go live, it will finish off remaining magblades.
2. Grim focus and morphs is overnerfed. It should be hard hitting offensive skill not some kind of mix between defensive and offensive bs. Remove the protection but give instead empower for the duration/next 5 LA.
Replace the heal with something else or make it work on full distance, in current state it's obsolete.
3. Path of darkness and morphs are total garbage. It needs some love, just look at Templars ritual. Increase its cost but make it useful.
4. Mass hysteria is poor brother of turn evil. It needs some kind of uniqness back. Maybe add dispell component to it. If feared you remove up to 2 buffs from the enemy.

From all of those changes only Relentless would be a buff to stamblades while all the other things would buff most of all magblades which are in a terrible state.

Both Nightblades are in a similar situation.

Mayrael · September 2019

Potato_Salad wrote: »

Nightblades offensive kit i

Mayrael wrote: »

1. Shadow Image range can't go live, it will finish off remaining magblades.
2. Grim focus and morphs is overnerfed. It should be hard hitting offensive skill not some kind of mix between defensive and offensive bs. Remove the protection but give instead empower for the duration/next 5 LA.
Replace the heal with something else or make it work on full distance, in current state it's obsolete.
3. Path of darkness and morphs are total garbage. It needs some love, just look at Templars ritual. Increase its cost but make it useful.
4. Mass hysteria is poor brother of turn evil. It needs some kind of uniqness back. Maybe add dispell component to it. If feared you remove up to 2 buffs from the enemy.

From all of those changes only Relentless would be a buff to stamblades while all the other things would buff most of all magblades which are in a terrible state.

Both Nightblades are in a similar situation.

I know that stamblades have hard time now, but please don't even try to compare magblades and stamblades. Sorry but it's because of stamblades NB in general took so many hits. Stamblades do deserve some love to, but IMHO magblade is in worse state for far longer and should be first in line to take some buffs.

kalunte · October 2019

So StamDK's are getting one more group utilitary tool and Nightblades arent even geting a line in the patchnote.

they heard and will do something.

i'm soooo pleased. i mean, i love having to build somehow hybrid in order to support a bit my team while any other classe can do it fine. i would even slot malevolent offering if it had a stam/wd scaling morph.

are really nightblade only designed to warn ppl before trying to assassinated them (while some others keep their AoE major fracture/breach on base rotation skills) and be t-bag target because they dont have the tool to "off-heal" correctly?

HowlKimchi · October 2019

Wish they reverted the shadow image change.

Mayrael · October 2019

HaruKamui wrote: »

Wish they reverted the shadow image change.

If they won't I'm out. Every freaking patch magblades we're nerfed despite the fact it was already bottom line spec, every patch they have spit in magblades faces. I've stayed just because I thought it needs to change one day, that they will realise it's overnerfed class already. But I guess I was wrong, they can totally destroy the spec and call it a "balance" or even "QoL improvement" as they said about shadow image nerf.

PS. No you can't have my stuff.

Ragnaroek93 · October 2019

Class identity patch and both class spammables (Surprise Attack and Swallow Soul) get outclassed by weapon skills (Power Slam hits harder while being in the defensive skill line and almost everything is better than Swallow Soul now)...

I remember the day when Surprise Attack became a stamina spammable and that was the day when stam Nb started being good. For me it always was the core offensive skill on the class (by that time execute, Incap and Grim Focus dealt only magicka dmg) and now after 5 years it suddenly gets nerfed to the point where it gets outclassed by weapon skill spammables because the devs think that the debuff is redundant while ignoring that nobody can afford wasting a skill slot for a skill which does basically NOTHING except applying Major Fracture (Mark Target - was said multiple times that the skill is underperforming but whatever, can't allow a Nb class skill to be better than a weapon skill I guess). I think I'm done with this. By the amount of time which the combat team needs for changes it will probably take another year until the game becomes enjoyable (and even that isn't guaranteed).

Nb is a prime example of a class which used to be 10/10 design wise and got ruined because devs think it's a good idea to copy WoW instead of listening to the players who play and love their game.

Iskiab · October 2019

I understand wanting to add new effects and improve classes while doing balance passes, but I’m pretty sure if the current version of PTS goes live it will kill off NBs in pvp.

It could be NBs will be fine for solo play but it’s debatable. For any sized group above 1 NBs will be terrible.

Tan9oSuccka · October 2019

HaruKamui wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?

Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.

Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.

Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.

Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.

Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.

Interesting contrast tbh.

Dont rely on grim focus for the heal imo.

No point of using this skill in the current state.

At all really. Unless some for some niche PVE build.

ThePhantomThorn · October 2019

Here’s a nice list for you:

Assassination:

Death stroke - remove cast time and silence, add maj defile, stuns with 120ult or more

Teleport strike - ambush - add a 40% snare OR a stun. Remove empower if need be

Mark target - remove the obvious visual effect to make it useful

Grim focus - remove heal and damage mitigation and add minor berserk. Each morph adds maj brutality and sorcery as to allow more pot options

Shadow:

Veiled strike - sneak movement applies to both morphs and each morph gets maj fracture/breach respectively

Refreshing path - applies a synergy

Aspect of terror - add a snare and a debuff (like minor maim) to make the skill more unique

Shade - keep as of live

Siphoning:

Strife - increase dmg

Agony - 1 morph changed to an instant burst heal because every other class has one

Cripple - re-add maj expedition

Plz read this

@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ty

Mayrael · October 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s a nice list for you:

Assassination:

Death stroke - remove cast time and silence, add maj defile, stuns with 120ult or more

Teleport strike - ambush - add a 40% snare OR a stun. Remove empower if need be

Mark target - remove the obvious visual effect to make it useful

Grim focus - remove heal and damage mitigation and add minor berserk. Each morph adds maj brutality and sorcery as to allow more pot options

Shadow:

Veiled strike - sneak movement applies to both morphs and each morph gets maj fracture/breach respectively

Refreshing path - applies a synergy

Shade - keep as of live

Siphoning:

Strife - increase dmg

Agony - 1 morph changed to an instant burst heal because every other class has one

Cripple - re-add maj expedition

Plz read this

@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ty

It would be awesome, like OMG awesome! But after today's patch notes about nightblade (not even a single line, just a "maybe we won't nerf shadow image") changes I have lost all faith in ZOS.

czar · October 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s a nice list for you:

Assassination:

Death stroke - remove cast time and silence, add maj defile, stuns with 120ult or more

Teleport strike - ambush - add a 40% snare OR a stun. Remove empower if need be

Mark target - remove the obvious visual effect to make it useful

Grim focus - remove heal and damage mitigation and add minor berserk. Each morph adds maj brutality and sorcery as to allow more pot options

Shadow:

Veiled strike - sneak movement applies to both morphs and each morph gets maj fracture/breach respectively

Refreshing path - applies a synergy

Aspect of terror - add a snare and a debuff (like minor maim) to make the skill more unique

Shade - keep as of live

Siphoning:

Strife - increase dmg

Agony - 1 morph changed to an instant burst heal because every other class has one

Cripple - re-add maj expedition

Plz read this

@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ty

i really miss the stun from ambush, no idea why they changed it when it only affected pve anyway. i personally think veiled strike/sa should also deal a tiny bit more dmg, but honestly everything on this list would make me very happy.

Potato_Salad · October 2019

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s a nice list for you:

Assassination:

Death stroke - remove cast time and silence, add maj defile, stuns with 120ult or more

Teleport strike - ambush - add a 40% snare OR a stun. Remove empower if need be

Mark target - remove the obvious visual effect to make it useful

Grim focus - remove heal and damage mitigation and add minor berserk. Each morph adds maj brutality and sorcery as to allow more pot options

Shadow:

Veiled strike - sneak movement applies to both morphs and each morph gets maj fracture/breach respectively

Refreshing path - applies a synergy

Aspect of terror - add a snare and a debuff (like minor maim) to make the skill more unique

Shade - keep as of live

Siphoning:

Strife - increase dmg

Agony - 1 morph changed to an instant burst heal because every other class has one

Cripple - re-add maj expedition

Plz read this

@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ty

Death stroke only needs its stun back at 70ult instead of silence and it would be fine

Grim focus needs to lose the stupid delay and the projectile needs to be faster for magblades to actually hit something

Teleport strike needs to be either offGCD and lose all its damage or needs to lose the charge up time before the leap, currently the skill is too slow, too telegraphed and too clunky to be good.

Mass Hysteria is fine as a stun, they could make the other morph as a sort of delayed fear to work on the next GCD so youd have the option to not waste a GCD for a stun when going for a combo.

Everything else is fine.
Your buffs would just bring NBs back to the overperforming point.

Iskiab · October 2019

Potato_Salad wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s a nice list for you:

Assassination:

Death stroke - remove cast time and silence, add maj defile, stuns with 120ult or more

Teleport strike - ambush - add a 40% snare OR a stun. Remove empower if need be

Mark target - remove the obvious visual effect to make it useful

Grim focus - remove heal and damage mitigation and add minor berserk. Each morph adds maj brutality and sorcery as to allow more pot options

Shadow:

Veiled strike - sneak movement applies to both morphs and each morph gets maj fracture/breach respectively

Refreshing path - applies a synergy

Aspect of terror - add a snare and a debuff (like minor maim) to make the skill more unique

Shade - keep as of live

Siphoning:

Strife - increase dmg

Agony - 1 morph changed to an instant burst heal because every other class has one

Cripple - re-add maj expedition

Plz read this

@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ty

Death stroke only needs its stun back at 70ult instead of silence and it would be fine

Grim focus needs to lose the stupid delay and the projectile needs to be faster for magblades to actually hit something

Teleport strike needs to be either offGCD and lose all its damage or needs to lose the charge up time before the leap, currently the skill is too slow, too telegraphed and too clunky to be good.

Mass Hysteria is fine as a stun, they could make the other morph as a sort of delayed fear to work on the next GCD so youd have the option to not waste a GCD for a stun when going for a combo.

Everything else is fine.
Your buffs would just bring NBs back to the overperforming point.

Teleport strike off-GCD would be OP. Merciless makes more sense.