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PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade

  • HowlKimchi
    HowlKimchi
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I don’t see how you can think magblades aren’t underpowered.

    For class skills a lot are less powerful than guild skill abilities. I’d say the only good magblade abilities are cloak, lotus fan, buff abilities like phantasmal escape and impale..: though impale is mainly good in pve. Most builds I come up with are how to get class passives and use the least amount of magblade abilities possible.

    I may have adapted and been playing magblade for too long that when I think of it getting the suggested buffs it seems to be too good. I'm definitely not saying im 100% right though and im just voicing out my opinions. I might have been desensitized to the clunkiness. xD

    I will certainly say though, that to perform well with magblades is soooo much harder that magsorcs and magplars. It feels like a vary high skillcap toon that feels a bit like feast or famine. I have those bad days as well, and when I do I switch to magplar and magsorc.

    Maybe that's where the complaints come from because offense and defense-wise I really think they're okay.
    Edited by HowlKimchi on October 9, 2019 12:17PM
    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

    PC/NA - EP - Howl Beoulve/Howl Kimchi
  • Pijng
    Pijng
    ✭✭✭
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:
    Edited by Pijng on October 9, 2019 11:46AM
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Problems with Stamblade and how to improve them:
    • Relentless Focus is an empty cast, uses up resources but you gain nothing for activating it and must build stacks - We need to be given something for activating the ability, maybe give us berserk back for 10 seconds because NB burst is pretty bad at the moment compared to other classes.
    • Surprise Attack Armor debuff is too weak and too awkward to apply - the current armor debuff is way too insignificant and may as well not exist, give us back Major fracture as this was a good tool to use against tanky builds or give us minor fracture for the group utility.
    • Incap strike silence is an awful and weak effect and needs to be removed - Onslaught and DBoS are way more effective than incap right now and the silence does very little to help nightblades. Add back in the stun to incap and remove the silence and call it a day with that ability.
    • Mass Hysteria - this ability is literally weaker than the fighters guild variant and it used to be a class defining ability - Add a slight snare to this ability as Stam NBs don't have very many snares in their kit anymore.

      Everything else can be left as is but at least some kind of buffs are needed for this class.
    I agree with this and love the snare idea on mass hysteria.
  • Szende
    Szende
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    Probably no chance for this, but... removing the meaningless heal from grimm focus and give something else? Even a bit longer duration would be more useful on this ability.
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    Agree with you, I would prefer to avoid overbuffing NBs because it ends pretty bad. TBH for now I would be really glad if we could get rid of delay on grim focus, cast time on harvest/incap and at least defensive morph of tether and ofcourse speeding up teleport strike animation.

    Another thing that would be nice and I think not very overpowered is short major expedition on something else than path, doesnt matter would it be cripple, shade, fear or even grim focus. Anything actually useful, or buff path.
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Pijng
    Pijng
    ✭✭✭
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    Agree with you, I would prefer to avoid overbuffing NBs because it ends pretty bad. TBH for now I would be really glad if we could get rid of delay on grim focus, cast time on harvest/incap and at least defensive morph of tether and ofcourse speeding up teleport strike animation.

    Another thing that would be nice and I think not very overpowered is short major expedition on something else than path, doesnt matter would it be cripple, shade, fear or even grim focus. Anything actually useful, or buff path.

    So we came to give cripple it's major exp back :)
    Edited by Pijng on October 9, 2019 4:18PM
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    How would you propose buffing magblade sustain if not a cost reduction with siphoning attacks then maybe reduce the cost of strife to reward players for staying offensive? The class needs a sustain buff. Maybe increase the resource siphoning attacks return when the ability expires.

    Merciless should have the 10% reduction because the first cast of the ability doesn’t grant any buff but cost magicka that’s just bad skill design. This also means you can fire the bow and keep the mitigation which would be a pretty decent buff.
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    All I want is major fracture back on SA, minor berserk back on grim focus, and replace silence on incap with a real stun. Give mass hysteria some kind of buff I don’t know what someone mentioned giving it a snare I agree turn evil shouldn’t be better.
    Edited by Deathlord92 on October 9, 2019 4:27PM
  • Rehdaun
    Rehdaun
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    Pijng wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    Agree with you, I would prefer to avoid overbuffing NBs because it ends pretty bad. TBH for now I would be really glad if we could get rid of delay on grim focus, cast time on harvest/incap and at least defensive morph of tether and ofcourse speeding up teleport strike animation.

    Another thing that would be nice and I think not very overpowered is short major expedition on something else than path, doesnt matter would it be cripple, shade, fear or even grim focus. Anything actually useful, or buff path.

    So we came to give cripple it's major exp back :)

    What's sad is that they took expedition away from cripple in the first place, stating that "we don't need two sources of the same buff". Then they nerfed path to the ground, leaving blades without a useful class skill to get it. Just one more thing stripped away that made the class unique. I'm sure that Zos thought long and hard about this before making their decision in the first place. NOT!
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    How would you propose buffing magblade sustain if not a cost reduction with siphoning attacks then maybe reduce the cost of strife to reward players for staying offensive? The class needs a sustain buff. Maybe increase the resource siphoning attacks return when the ability expires.

    Merciless should have the 10% reduction because the first cast of the ability doesn’t grant any buff but cost magicka that’s just bad skill design. This also means you can fire the bow and keep the mitigation which would be a pretty decent buff.

    Yeah that's true that spending magicka for nothing at the beginning of the skill is not very good but 10% would be a bit to much IMHO, maybe if it would be changed to minor protection to avoid stacking with other defensive buffs but then again why offensive skill should give defensive buff?

    When it goes to grim focus I always dreamt that it would give some penetration on cast, that would be really awesome IMHO but this patch we can't expect anything beside of nerfs, that's why I am happy that at least we are not nerfed again (at least not more than others).
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I don’t see how you can think magblades aren’t underpowered.

    For class skills a lot are less powerful than guild skill abilities. I’d say the only good magblade abilities are cloak, lotus fan, buff abilities like phantasmal escape and impale..: though impale is mainly good in pve. Most builds I come up with are how to get class passives and use the least amount of magblade abilities possible.

    I may have adapted and been playing magblade for too long that when I think of it getting the suggested buffs it seems to be too good. I'm definitely not saying im 100% right though and im just voicing out my opinions. I might have been desensitized to the clunkiness. xD

    I will certainly say though, that to perform well with magblades is soooo much harder that magsorcs and magplars. It feels like a vary high skillcap toon that feels a bit like feast or famine. I have those bad days as well, and when I do I switch to magplar and magsorc.

    Maybe that's where the complaints come from because offense and defense-wise I really think they're okay.

    I see 5 NB issues:

    1. The damage bonus from stealth or invisibility sucks for the class. Complaints about the class always revolve around gank potential, and the passive’s the reason. Whenever a NB ability’s buffed to parity with other classes it’s nerfed because it can be used to gank. Then even now there are complaints because you can’t nerf snipe, dizzy swing and onslaught without effecting other classes so NBs stay being complained about with garbage class abilities.

    2. Mitigation is good, but it isn’t backed up with self healing. This again favours a stealth playstyle. If you only need the mitigation to escape onslaught and defile attacks then the mitigation is okay, if you want to brawl forget about it.

    3. The class has no burst abilities. Merciless can hit hard and do a lot of damage but you can’t stack it on top of another ability for burst. This is key for pvp, compared to a sorc or stamwarden who can time 3+ abilities to hit at once merciless damage is low. That’s why reducing damage and being off the GCD is a good idea imo, combined with the stealth passive nerf NBs would be comparable to other classes.

    4. NB damage attacks suck, they’re undertuned across the board. It’s like they’ve been balanced expecting the stealth passive to be in effect. The most effective magblade damage specs I’ve found uses onslaught and prox det or force pulse and elemental weapon. For healing it’s using support abilities with NB buffs. Even Stamblades abuse the heck out of snipe with the cloak buff or cloak - dizzy - executioner. Since the class is missing any form of damage ability stacking using weapon or guild abilities is better. Just get the class passives and use the least amount of class abilities possible.

    5. The class is missing any form of off-stat recovery. Sure there’s the health, mag and stam recovery passive but it isn’t enough for pvp. You can get a steady stream of stamina back playing a MagDK or MagWarden, for a NB with a 4.5k cost to break free you’re going to run out of stamina.

    You can still do okay as a magblade but that isn’t the point really. It’s more about why play a magblade when you can play another class and just be better. You have to REALLY like the theme or cloak to stick with it.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 9, 2019 4:59PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    How would you propose buffing magblade sustain if not a cost reduction with siphoning attacks then maybe reduce the cost of strife to reward players for staying offensive? The class needs a sustain buff. Maybe increase the resource siphoning attacks return when the ability expires.

    Merciless should have the 10% reduction because the first cast of the ability doesn’t grant any buff but cost magicka that’s just bad skill design. This also means you can fire the bow and keep the mitigation which would be a pretty decent buff.

    Yeah that's true that spending magicka for nothing at the beginning of the skill is not very good but 10% would be a bit to much IMHO, maybe if it would be changed to minor protection to avoid stacking with other defensive buffs but then again why offensive skill should give defensive buff?

    When it goes to grim focus I always dreamt that it would give some penetration on cast, that would be really awesome IMHO but this patch we can't expect anything beside of nerfs, that's why I am happy that at least we are not nerfed again (at least not more than others).

    But it already gives the 10%. changing merciless to give it upon cast would just mean you can now fire the bow and keep the mitigation which makes sense because you spend the Magicka to cast the ability so you should keep the buff as long as the ability is active. That's how all the other buffs work in ESO. What's too strong about what would turn out to be a slight increase to the uptime of a mitigation buff on a class that doesn't have any access to a burst heal?
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Pijng wrote: »
    Magblade is probably one of the worse classes in the game right now. The only class I can really say it’s better than is magcro. The problem is magblade healing is terrible and cloak makes you want to pull your hair out when it breaks for no reason. Once you start playing other classes like I’m starting to do you really see how weak magblade is.

    Things that would help make mageblade competitive would be make one morph of Malevolent offering a self heal and make it heal over 2 to 3 seconds so it can be relatively bursty.

    Make siphoning attacks give skill cost reduction as well while active so you can add more damage into your build and drop a sustain set.

    Make the 10% damage mitigation from grim focus active as soon as you cast the ability and get rid of the damage mitigation stacks.

    These changes would go a long way into making magblade competitive again. Especially the siphoning attacks change. Magblade is a burst damage class and due to the increase in healing with the last update a well built character can no longer be killed by a open world magblade build and most of that is due to the fact that magblades have to make pretty big damage sacrifices in order to sustain. If the sustain is buffed magblades can add another damage set into their build which will give them more of a chance against tanky meta builds. Especially since if a player is really good they will hardly ever be hit by a bow proc

    Despite that I want magblade to be buffed, I think some of your proposed changes might be a lil bit too much.

    1. Malevolent morph to be a burst heal over time. Sounds like a good one yet it all depends on heal numbers.
    2. Reduce skill cost with siphoning attacks. Only if we're talking about some minor reduce like 5/6/7/8%. Any bigger numbers might be an overkill. The skill has low cost with already good sustain utility and heal. Ofc you have to hit target with la/ha to gain heal which can be quite complicated due to a lot of reasons, but still.
    3. 10% mitigation on bow cast. Hell no. 10%, seriously? It's too much, you'll just gain a big mitigation numbers out of the air. And I'm not even talking about additional 8% from dark cloak and some sets with potential mitigation. Current state of gaining 10% mitigation from bow is...clunky, I guess. I agree that there are too much stuffs being tied to light attacks on NB, but this is some "condition -> reward" system. Clunky, but system. Dunno what can be done with this one...

    Ye I know that "if you criticize – offer alternative options" but I don't have any c:

    How would you propose buffing magblade sustain if not a cost reduction with siphoning attacks then maybe reduce the cost of strife to reward players for staying offensive? The class needs a sustain buff. Maybe increase the resource siphoning attacks return when the ability expires.

    Merciless should have the 10% reduction because the first cast of the ability doesn’t grant any buff but cost magicka that’s just bad skill design. This also means you can fire the bow and keep the mitigation which would be a pretty decent buff.

    Yeah that's true that spending magicka for nothing at the beginning of the skill is not very good but 10% would be a bit to much IMHO, maybe if it would be changed to minor protection to avoid stacking with other defensive buffs but then again why offensive skill should give defensive buff?

    When it goes to grim focus I always dreamt that it would give some penetration on cast, that would be really awesome IMHO but this patch we can't expect anything beside of nerfs, that's why I am happy that at least we are not nerfed again (at least not more than others).

    But it already gives the 10%. changing merciless to give it upon cast would just mean you can now fire the bow and keep the mitigation which makes sense because you spend the Magicka to cast the ability so you should keep the buff as long as the ability is active. That's how all the other buffs work in ESO. What's too strong about what would turn out to be a slight increase to the uptime of a mitigation buff on a class that doesn't have any access to a burst heal?

    Agreed. As a healer I used to build 5 stacks of merciless and never fire it. The issue is combat breaks in pvp and I can’t find any rhyme or reason to it, sometimes I’ll be stuck in combat for an hour running around in cyrodiil, sometimes a cloak mid engagement will break combat. It makes the most sense imo to make it an active ability, hit merciless and make it last however many seconds so at least I’ll know if I have it.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 9, 2019 11:35PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • KageNin
    KageNin
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    Can we get the stupid Minor Endurance buff animation off from Relentless Focus!?!?!
    It's been months since its been removed from the skill.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    I made a new thread about this before I realized that there was a thread specifically for Nightblades, so I'll just put it here as well:
    Langeston wrote: »
    When attacking from cloak on the PTS, I am pulled from cloak before the attack, effectively negating the 100% chance to crit.

    I saw in the patch notes that the following fix was made:
    "Shadow Cloak:
    Shadowy Disguise (morph): Fixed an issue where the Critical bonus from this ability could be consumed by abilities that could not Critically Strike."

    As it stands, there doesn't appear to be any critical bonus at all.

    Right now, my Magblade is weaker than every class I come up against in every regard that I can think of. If this "fix" goes live, I'll be lucky to burst down anything but another Nightblade wearing all divines that's already only at 25% health.
    Edited by Langeston on October 10, 2019 4:53PM
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Langeston wrote: »
    I made a new thread about this before I realized that there was a thread specifically for Nightblades, so I'll just put it here as well:
    Langeston wrote: »
    When attacking from cloak on the PTS, I am pulled from cloak before the attack, effectively negating the 100% chance to crit.

    I saw in the patch notes that the following fix was made:
    "Shadow Cloak:
    Shadowy Disguise (morph): Fixed an issue where the Critical bonus from this ability could be consumed by abilities that could not Critically Strike."

    As it stands, there doesn't appear to be any critical bonus at all.

    Right now, my Magblade is weaker than every class I come up against in every regard that I can think of. If this "fix" goes live, I'll be lucky to burst down anything but another Nightblade wearing all divines that's already only at 25% health.

    Ok that's pretty bad :F Literally there was no single patch where cloak was working as intended, there always has to be something to pull you out of it unintentionally... :F
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Finedaible
    Finedaible
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    Stamblades can't even combo their own toolkit now with these dumb-ass cast times on Incapacitating Strike and delay time on Grim Focus. Opponents can completely negate these two abilities by simple break-free or roll-dodge even if you try and fear or stun them before-hand (assuming they aren't already CC immune). Mind you, it's better to run Turn Evil than it is to run Mass Hysteria or its morphs right now, which makes Nightblades' identity a f***ing joke. What happened to nightblade being the high-burst, combo assassin? Where is the NB's class identity (Play Pattern) as an assassin/rogue/shadowmage playstyle? You ruined the class with the most identity in the game and made it completely boring.
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    Sahidom wrote: »
    I'm going to toss this monkey out there. Change Shadow Disguise to be a utility-defensive skill by removing the critical hit success, and replacing the following mods:

    1. Retain the Invisibility effect
    2. Replace the critical hit success with a 1.6 second Dodge Effect.
    3. Magicka costs equals stamina Dodge Roll costs; but +10% accumulative cost penalty for repetitive casting.

    When you vanish (invisibility) the initial 1.6 seconds of the 3 second duration bestows dodge roll protection while still leaving the remaining 1.4 seconds where damage can prematurely reveal you. All detection sources will negate the invisibility effect of the skill (e..g. making the user visible) but not the dodge roll protection.

    How about NO stop trying to change the one thing stamblades have that is useful or do you thank all nightblades are magic
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    Magblade this magblade that from top to bottom in this thread can OP change title because as an stamblade i dont see anything here about US just magblade in an NIGHTBLADE thread i understand the development team done took us out the nightblade game but why is the NIGHTBLADE community doing the same
  • Szende
    Szende
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    Finedaible wrote: »
    Stamblades can't even combo their own toolkit now with these dumb-ass cast times on Incapacitating Strike and delay time on Grim Focus. Opponents can completely negate these two abilities by simple break-free or roll-dodge even if you try and fear or stun them before-hand (assuming they aren't already CC immune). Mind you, it's better to run Turn Evil than it is to run Mass Hysteria or its morphs right now, which makes Nightblades' identity a f***ing joke. What happened to nightblade being the high-burst, combo assassin? Where is the NB's class identity (Play Pattern) as an assassin/rogue/shadowmage playstyle? You ruined the class with the most identity in the game and made it completely boring.

    Dunno, cast time and delay annoying but timing well on a roll dodging enemy, the delay can be even an adventage. Ofc its makes everything slower, but do not think its a disadventage. What i really do not get, the heal on grimm focus. Just...why?
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Royalthought
    Royalthought
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    Magblade this magblade that from top to bottom in this thread can OP change title because as an stamblade i dont see anything here about US just magblade in an NIGHTBLADE thread i understand the development team done took us out the nightblade game but why is the NIGHTBLADE community doing the same

    Because some haven’t realized stamblades have been nerfed into mediocrity along with Magblades.

    What’s interesting is DK’s just convinced the devs that, (although they are the premier tank class) they’re also THE Dot class, so the devs gave them the strongest Dots. 2 specialties they will stand out at.

    I’m wondering, what nightblades specialty is supposed to be and what it should get to make them the strongest in that area?
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    Magblade this magblade that from top to bottom in this thread can OP change title because as an stamblade i dont see anything here about US just magblade in an NIGHTBLADE thread i understand the development team done took us out the nightblade game but why is the NIGHTBLADE community doing the same

    Because some haven’t realized stamblades have been nerfed into mediocrity along with Magblades.

    What’s interesting is DK’s just convinced the devs that, (although they are the premier tank class) they’re also THE Dot class, so the devs gave them the strongest Dots. 2 specialties they will stand out at.

    I’m wondering, what nightblades specialty is supposed to be and what it should get to make them the strongest in that area?

    Stamblades strongest at crafting maybe we should ask for better mat rates 😆 😆 😆 not funny but true as thats all my 16x emp is good for anymore or getting an single kill against 24 man groups all in heavy with 6 healbots
    And they call us cowards 😆
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on October 11, 2019 5:25AM
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Yea, sometimes you have to wonder what the devs are doing.

    Anyone who’s played the game at all and understands how it works could sit down and look at class abilities side by side and see a huge imbalance. I don’t understand how knowing this the strongest classes keep getting buffed and the weaker ones get nerfed.

    If the idea is to cycle fotm classes and intentionally overbuff a class then that’s just stupid. Fastest way to drive players away from the game who’re attached to their non-buffed character.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Yea, sometimes you have to wonder what the devs are doing.

    Anyone who’s played the game at all and understands how it works could sit down and look at class abilities side by side and see a huge imbalance. I don’t understand how knowing this the strongest classes keep getting buffed and the weaker ones get nerfed.

    If the idea is to cycle fotm classes and intentionally overbuff a class then that’s just stupid. Fastest way to drive players away from the game who’re attached to their non-buffed character.

    I have both fully-grown and specced magblade and magplar... and difference in power and variety of class tools is staggering. It's not like magplar have better synergy with some sets or just a step above. There is CHASM between this 2 specs.

    And as person who doesn't like to play both underpowered or overpowered specs, I won't play both in result.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Yea, sometimes you have to wonder what the devs are doing.

    Anyone who’s played the game at all and understands how it works could sit down and look at class abilities side by side and see a huge imbalance. I don’t understand how knowing this the strongest classes keep getting buffed and the weaker ones get nerfed.

    If the idea is to cycle fotm classes and intentionally overbuff a class then that’s just stupid. Fastest way to drive players away from the game who’re attached to their non-buffed character.

    I have both fully-grown and specced magblade and magplar... and difference in power and variety of class tools is staggering. It's not like magplar have better synergy with some sets or just a step above. There is CHASM between this 2 specs.

    And as person who doesn't like to play both underpowered or overpowered specs, I won't play both in result.

    I like having fun, and winning is fun. Winning all the time isn’t though, there has to be a challenge to have real competition. That’s why I don’t BG much on my magblade anymore, solo queuing I feel underpowered and in a premade I feel overpowered.

    I like the sneaky NB theme and pvp healing. Magblade healer made made the most sense. Played a rogue in Rift, brigand in EQ2. I also played an archmage in WHO and Warden in EQ2. Bard and mage in EQ.

    I like off-meta and theorycrafting. I’m thinking MagDK or Pet Magsorc. I think I’ve exhausted options for magblade in all the styles I’m interested in.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 13, 2019 10:58PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
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    I'll itemize it:

    Clunky skills:


    Skill delays. The delay on Merciless Resolve and the cast time on both Soul Tether and Incap both don't make sense compared to other classes (why does Incap warrant a cast time when Crescent Sweep, which has a similar cost and outputs a similar amount of damage, does not?) and create a class that cannot compete beyond the lowest level. The damage is all there, in theory, but compared to literally any other class' burst, NB's damage will never land against a competent player. Consider removing either or both of these delays, or making these skills worth the opportunity cost of having to undergo a cast time for them.

    Incap's Silence. Bad skill design - the 125 version of Incap is meant to be a stronger version, and yet oftentimes it just means giving your enemy free CC immunity. At the same time, making the Silence unbreakable turns it into a literal "I win" button against every magic user. Incap currently does poorly at it's intended role of helping to single out a target. Consider removing the Silence mechanic from Incap, and instead replacing it like something such as a reduction to healing received from outside sources; this way, it serves it's purpose of singling somebody out in a group by isolating them from their healer (self heals would still work, obviously.)

    Fear's range. Having a melee-range stun with a range shorter than some melee abilities (see Fear's 6m range versus Dizzying Swing's 7m range) often makes for confusing situations where somebody can be in your face, wailing on you, and yet they're still out of range to be stunned. Consider changing Fear's range to 7m.

    Weak healing:

    HOTs suck, and there is no good alternative available. For a class that is absolutely loaded with HOTs, it ultimately amounts to nothing - the initial Healing Ward nerf way back when Blackrose Prison first got released has been a huge issue for magblade ever since. Subsequent nerfs to Dark Cloak's burst heal potential didn't help. Every class needs a burst heal. The heal on Merciless Resolve is clunky (the maximum range makes no sense and often causes the heal to not be received) and cannot be relied upon.

    Consider turning either morph of Malevolent Offering into a self heal (if it's going to be a HOT, make it analogous to Vigor in it's duration and heal per tick) or greatly buffing the heal from Refreshing Path (it needs to be worthwhile to stand stationary in this small AOE)

    ___

    The good thing with magblade is that there's not so much broken with it to where it couldn't be fixed with a few changes; the bad thing is that, without those changes, it's one of the least viable classes in PVP. Here's hoping ZOS makes the required adjustments.


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    I'll itemize it:

    Clunky skills:


    Skill delays. The delay on Merciless Resolve and the cast time on both Soul Tether and Incap both don't make sense compared to other classes (why does Incap warrant a cast time when Crescent Sweep, which has a similar cost and outputs a similar amount of damage, does not?) and create a class that cannot compete beyond the lowest level. The damage is all there, in theory, but compared to literally any other class' burst, NB's damage will never land against a competent player. Consider removing either or both of these delays, or making these skills worth the opportunity cost of having to undergo a cast time for them.

    Incap's Silence. Bad skill design - the 125 version of Incap is meant to be a stronger version, and yet oftentimes it just means giving your enemy free CC immunity. At the same time, making the Silence unbreakable turns it into a literal "I win" button against every magic user. Incap currently does poorly at it's intended role of helping to single out a target. Consider removing the Silence mechanic from Incap, and instead replacing it like something such as a reduction to healing received from outside sources; this way, it serves it's purpose of singling somebody out in a group by isolating them from their healer (self heals would still work, obviously.)

    Fear's range. Having a melee-range stun with a range shorter than some melee abilities (see Fear's 6m range versus Dizzying Swing's 7m range) often makes for confusing situations where somebody can be in your face, wailing on you, and yet they're still out of range to be stunned. Consider changing Fear's range to 7m.

    Weak healing:

    HOTs suck, and there is no good alternative available. For a class that is absolutely loaded with HOTs, it ultimately amounts to nothing - the initial Healing Ward nerf way back when Blackrose Prison first got released has been a huge issue for magblade ever since. Subsequent nerfs to Dark Cloak's burst heal potential didn't help. Every class needs a burst heal. The heal on Merciless Resolve is clunky (the maximum range makes no sense and often causes the heal to not be received) and cannot be relied upon.

    Consider turning either morph of Malevolent Offering into a self heal (if it's going to be a HOT, make it analogous to Vigor in it's duration and heal per tick) or greatly buffing the heal from Refreshing Path (it needs to be worthwhile to stand stationary in this small AOE)

    ___

    The good thing with magblade is that there's not so much broken with it to where it couldn't be fixed with a few changes; the bad thing is that, without those changes, it's one of the least viable classes in PVP. Here's hoping ZOS makes the required adjustments.
    Concealed weapon could use a buff to major breach or hot on contact like swallow soul etc
  • kind_hero
    kind_hero
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Yea, sometimes you have to wonder what the devs are doing.

    Anyone who’s played the game at all and understands how it works could sit down and look at class abilities side by side and see a huge imbalance. I don’t understand how knowing this the strongest classes keep getting buffed and the weaker ones get nerfed.

    If the idea is to cycle fotm classes and intentionally overbuff a class then that’s just stupid. Fastest way to drive players away from the game who’re attached to their non-buffed character.

    I have both fully-grown and specced magblade and magplar... and difference in power and variety of class tools is staggering. It's not like magplar have better synergy with some sets or just a step above. There is CHASM between this 2 specs.

    And as person who doesn't like to play both underpowered or overpowered specs, I won't play both in result.

    I have a magblade and magsorc, I play both weekly (mostly overland, little or no pvp, some pve like pug raids or vet dungeons). I am quite attached to my magblade because she is my main, almost grand master crafter, and close to Tamriel Hero. But the difference between playing the two is big. My magsorc does damage so easy, the combat feels seamless, more satisfying and fun. On the other hand, the magblade has to many gimmicks with little or no pay offs. It should feel good but it fails at delivering a satisfying combat. Most of the magblade's abilities give the feel that they are missing something, or something is off (like merciless that everyone is talking about). Self (burst) heal, indeed, an other issue. IMO the most annoying thing while playing a mNB DD is when you fail to deliver the bow proc. I really hate that.. so for a while I removed that completely from my bar. But in case of the magsorc, if I fail to land the frag proc, is not such a big issue, because it is far easier to get an other one.

    In my view, the mag blade should be a mid range fighter, focused on evasion, cloak and great mobility. If you catch the mnb (I am referring to the dd role mostly) he should be quite vulnerable. But in order for this to work, the mnb needs more defence while in mid/close range, which should work like a buff but with trade offs... I really hope they will rework the builds next year to have trade-offs.. So if you want more damage you become glass cannon, if you want more mobility you lose something important, and thus you balance. I don't want my char to be OP.. just fun to play, and to feel like a stealthy mobile assassin/fighter.
    [PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter
  • Pijng
    Pijng
    ✭✭✭
    kind_hero wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Yea, sometimes you have to wonder what the devs are doing.

    Anyone who’s played the game at all and understands how it works could sit down and look at class abilities side by side and see a huge imbalance. I don’t understand how knowing this the strongest classes keep getting buffed and the weaker ones get nerfed.

    If the idea is to cycle fotm classes and intentionally overbuff a class then that’s just stupid. Fastest way to drive players away from the game who’re attached to their non-buffed character.

    I have both fully-grown and specced magblade and magplar... and difference in power and variety of class tools is staggering. It's not like magplar have better synergy with some sets or just a step above. There is CHASM between this 2 specs.

    And as person who doesn't like to play both underpowered or overpowered specs, I won't play both in result.

    I have a magblade and magsorc, I play both weekly (mostly overland, little or no pvp, some pve like pug raids or vet dungeons). I am quite attached to my magblade because she is my main, almost grand master crafter, and close to Tamriel Hero. But the difference between playing the two is big. My magsorc does damage so easy, the combat feels seamless, more satisfying and fun. On the other hand, the magblade has to many gimmicks with little or no pay offs. It should feel good but it fails at delivering a satisfying combat. Most of the magblade's abilities give the feel that they are missing something, or something is off (like merciless that everyone is talking about). Self (burst) heal, indeed, an other issue. IMO the most annoying thing while playing a mNB DD is when you fail to deliver the bow proc. I really hate that.. so for a while I removed that completely from my bar. But in case of the magsorc, if I fail to land the frag proc, is not such a big issue, because it is far easier to get an other one.

    In my view, the mag blade should be a mid range fighter, focused on evasion, cloak and great mobility. If you catch the mnb (I am referring to the dd role mostly) he should be quite vulnerable. But in order for this to work, the mnb needs more defence while in mid/close range, which should work like a buff but with trade offs... I really hope they will rework the builds next year to have trade-offs.. So if you want more damage you become glass cannon, if you want more mobility you lose something important, and thus you balance. I don't want my char to be OP.. just fun to play, and to feel like a stealthy mobile assassin/fighter.
    I do agree.
    I removed bow as well and... My life is much happier rn. And the funniest - the dps went a lil bit higher. So my bars for trials are as follows:
    Impale - swallow - inner light - fire clench - degeneration - incap:
    Siphon atk - channeled acceleration - unstable wall - splitting trap - criple - shooting star

    So basically I just swapped merciles with fire clench. Damage is higher, rotation is easier, sustain is a bit better. Yet I wasn't that bad at firing bow, 2 constant shots and 3rd one if possible (something like 60-70% of the time).

    And it seems, well, weird. Weird when you replace one of the most hitting skill in nb kit and performing the same if not better. Uh.
    Edited by Pijng on October 14, 2019 3:39PM
  • Pijng
    Pijng
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    Am I reading it right? About twisting path dmg buff?

    1h1q71s36lxp.png

    So it means if we have 1000 dmg/sec rn on pts (important) it will be 2320 dmg/sec?
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