DPS is going to be just fine (marsorc parse example)
Aerenel
✭✭✭
Long-time lurker, wanted to give a little optimism here since everybody wants to unsub. Did a few quick magsorc parses on PTS and the class should still be able to do plenty of damage to clear all hard mode trials. I'm sure once the big theorycrafters do some testing on other classes they'll be in the same range.
DPS gonna be just fine.
DPS gonna be just fine.
7
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That is 20k nerf and also Bastion CP is bugged and is actually increasing damage, so you are probably getting like 15% more damage on your skills.6 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hey look, i made a specific build work OK with the new changes, so therefore there is no possible way something could be wrong with any of the existing characters out there that people have come to enjoy playing!
You do know what the second "M" in MMO stands for, yes?
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The highest parses I've seen this patch are on sorcs, and magsorcs are still hitting ~15% lower than last patch.
Stamsorcs and stamnecros are closer to 20% lower.
And of course for any group pushing achievements or scores, we'll be dealing with a 40% decrease in Major Vulnerability uptime as well.
For many people who are seriously into the end game, the question isn't "can I clear some old content that I've cleared 1,000 times already", it's "is my group's God Slayer progression totally borked now". And in most cases, yes, it is.Edited by LiquidPony on September 20, 2019 10:42PM12 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Definitely the best I’ve seen done on PTS. I love the idea of Sorc making a comeback as PVE DPS (it was good in Elsweyr, but pretty bad in Scalebreaker).
I will point out that double pet Sorc is probably the least affected by the changes, since after 2 pets, Daedric Prey and Frags there isn’t much room for DoTs, and most of the nerfs were to AoE and ST DoTs. It also makes me sad to see Liquid Lightning or Flood disappear from the list of DPS skills worth slotting.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It also makes me sad to see Liquid Lightning or Flood disappear from the list of DPS skills worth slotting.
Sad is one way to put it. Mindboggled is another."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle3 -
Aerenel✭✭✭People just have to get creative. We're spending so much time pissed off that we can't do what we used to do, need to figure out what is going to be possible in the new meta instead. Personally, I don't enjoy dot meta or necro meta and I know plenty of people who feel the same.
I agree it sucks for people progging Godslayer but I'd enjoy the opportunity to play other trials without them being irrelevant facerolls.3 -
chrightt✭✭✭✭@LiquidPony The main thing with Godslayer title should be that the veteran version be made easier by decreasing the boss' HP to make it less of a DPS check. The people who have obtained the title were in a patch where standard DPS was just straight up higher, so the rest of us can say "*** you" if those few godslayers think they should be the only one with the title because they passed in a patch where DPS was just high.
This would allow the rest of the content to be more intriguing as DPS for players don't just automatically shoot through the roof, while players will be able to obtain godslayer despite DPS nerfs.3 -
Aerenel✭✭✭@WrathOfInnos exactly. Just need to look at other classes and see what skills haven't been nerfed yet either and find ways to min/max them.0
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »People just have to get creative. We're spending so much time pissed off that we can't do what we used to do, need to figure out what is going to be possible in the new meta instead. Personally, I don't enjoy dot meta or necro meta and I know plenty of people who feel the same.
I agree it sucks for people progging Godslayer but I'd enjoy the opportunity to play other trials without them being irrelevant facerolls.
"Get creative" lol
The highest parses I've seen this patch are the *least* creative in years. Ground DoT for Berserker and spam. Pets for passive damage if you're lucky.
The "new meta" sucks, this patch is garbage, and I honestly do think this will wreck the end game community worse than Morrowind if it goes live.12 -
Aerenel✭✭✭There are 80k+ sNecro and 84k+ sSorc parses floating around. When the nerfs get dialed back in the new few weeks (which often happens in PTS), Those will increase to 85k-90k easily.
Week 1 is always the worst, this isn't anything new, yet people scream the sky is falling. It was the same thing thing with springs/orb last patch. Same thing again with shield nerfs a few patches before.3 -
crazywolfpusher✭✭✭DPS is not the problem here. We know this patch for pve only will affect those doing hm trials such as sunspire aiming godslayer.
The actual discussion is how drastic this changes are and how frequently they will be.
Theoretically classes that rely on dots will suffer the most.
PvP will be back to unkilleable tanks aka skilled players.
One thing devs have said in their stream is they want us to have a variety of choices instead of picking what do the most dps.
To me that means i should be able to do the same damage with a spammble "rotations" and with damage over time based rotation. So far, i think dots in this pts cycle are a bit behind from spammables.
So i dunno, if i have to decide what i would change is how cp works first and how that should be personalized into the play style you prefer.
If i choose buff my dots then my burst abilities should be weaker and vice versa. But right now cp allows you buff pretty much all your abilities equally making all abilities virtually the same without downsides.
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BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭crazywolfpusher wrote: »DPS is not the problem here. We know this patch for pve only will affect those doing hm trials such as sunspire aiming godslayer.
The actual discussion is how drastic this changes are and how frequently they will be.
Theoretically classes that rely on dots will suffer the most.
PvP will be back to unkilleable tanks aka skilled players.
One thing devs have said in their stream is they want us to have a variety of choices instead of picking what do the most dps.
To me that means i should be able to do the same damage with a spammble "rotations" and with damage over time based rotation. So far, i think dots in this pts cycle are a bit behind from spammables.
So i dunno, if i have to decide what i would change is how cp works first and how that should be personalized into the play style you prefer.
If i choose buff my dots then my burst abilities should be weaker and vice versa. But right now cp allows you buff pretty much all your abilities equally making all abilities virtually the same without downsides.
The people going for Godslayer will be effected.
But the people who are working CR+3 will be effected as well.
And the guilds who are just setting their toe into vAA.
And the people who only do vet dungeons, and the people who want to do vet dungeons.
This change effects everyone who is doing anything endgame.
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crazywolfpusher✭✭✭crazywolfpusher wrote: »DPS is not the problem here. We know this patch for pve only will affect those doing hm trials such as sunspire aiming godslayer.
The actual discussion is how drastic this changes are and how frequently they will be.
Theoretically classes that rely on dots will suffer the most.
PvP will be back to unkilleable tanks aka skilled players.
One thing devs have said in their stream is they want us to have a variety of choices instead of picking what do the most dps.
To me that means i should be able to do the same damage with a spammble "rotations" and with damage over time based rotation. So far, i think dots in this pts cycle are a bit behind from spammables.
So i dunno, if i have to decide what i would change is how cp works first and how that should be personalized into the play style you prefer.
If i choose buff my dots then my burst abilities should be weaker and vice versa. But right now cp allows you buff pretty much all your abilities equally making all abilities virtually the same without downsides.
The people going for Godslayer will be effected.
But the people who are working CR+3 will be effected as well.
And the guilds who are just setting their toe into vAA.
And the people who only do vet dungeons, and the people who want to do vet dungeons.
This change effects everyone who is doing anything endgame.
Just consider that all those hm before Elsweyr were achievable.1 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »Long-time lurker, wanted to give a little optimism here since everybody wants to unsub. Did a few quick magsorc parses on PTS and the class should still be able to do plenty of damage to clear all hard mode trials. I'm sure once the big theorycrafters do some testing on other classes they'll be in the same range.
DPS gonna be just fine.
Not Magdk because they rely on DoTs because they have no execute.DC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
Kerioko✭✭✭✭graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »Long-time lurker, wanted to give a little optimism here since everybody wants to unsub. Did a few quick magsorc parses on PTS and the class should still be able to do plenty of damage to clear all hard mode trials. I'm sure once the big theorycrafters do some testing on other classes they'll be in the same range.
DPS gonna be just fine.
Curious what your numbers look like with False God or Necropotence. It looks like the new BiS is going back to siroria for magicka that use mostly direct damage...ie magsorc
Also interesting is using spell symm in your rotation for sustain vs something like false god. How often did you have to use it to sustain?Dinosaur Chicken Nuggets - Argonian mNB Tank/Heals (PVP)
Strawberry Semifreddo - Dunmer mSorc DPS // Sunny D-Light - Breton mTemp Heals
Peanut Butter Sandwich - Orc sDK DPS // Kellogg's Frosted Flakes - Argonian mWard Tank/Heals (PVE)Cor-Leonisfriendship - integrity - perseverance0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since nobody can say one way or the other if you have Bastian or not on good luck selling this phase as being that nobody else has seen it this way SORRY BUT AFTER FAKED TOOLTIPS LAST PTS I DON'T BUY ANYTHING WITHOUT PROOFEdited by Nordic__Knights on September 21, 2019 12:34AM2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭crazywolfpusher wrote: »crazywolfpusher wrote: »DPS is not the problem here. We know this patch for pve only will affect those doing hm trials such as sunspire aiming godslayer.
The actual discussion is how drastic this changes are and how frequently they will be.
Theoretically classes that rely on dots will suffer the most.
PvP will be back to unkilleable tanks aka skilled players.
One thing devs have said in their stream is they want us to have a variety of choices instead of picking what do the most dps.
To me that means i should be able to do the same damage with a spammble "rotations" and with damage over time based rotation. So far, i think dots in this pts cycle are a bit behind from spammables.
So i dunno, if i have to decide what i would change is how cp works first and how that should be personalized into the play style you prefer.
If i choose buff my dots then my burst abilities should be weaker and vice versa. But right now cp allows you buff pretty much all your abilities equally making all abilities virtually the same without downsides.
The people going for Godslayer will be effected.
But the people who are working CR+3 will be effected as well.
And the guilds who are just setting their toe into vAA.
And the people who only do vet dungeons, and the people who want to do vet dungeons.
This change effects everyone who is doing anything endgame.
Just consider that all those hm before Elsweyr were achievable.
Yes, they were. But there are people who are struggling on those things right now. And those people will suffer from these changes as well as the top end.3 -
Aerenel✭✭✭@Nordic__Knights try looking at the 2 linked images before assuming bastion cheese. 1 of them lists CP, sets, skills etc. Theres literally 0 reason to post a fake parse on the forums - you'd get memed off the planet.
@Kerioko roughly once every 2 or 3 wall of elements. The cost increase to wall is an indirect buff to spell symmetry because of the % cost reduction. I agree if the changes go away from dots back towards direct dmg then classes that use the most direct dmg will benefit the most - imo sorcs and warden. Unfortunate time to be a dot-heavy class like DK or necro.Edited by Aerenel on September 21, 2019 1:03AM3 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭crazywolfpusher wrote: »crazywolfpusher wrote: »DPS is not the problem here. We know this patch for pve only will affect those doing hm trials such as sunspire aiming godslayer.
The actual discussion is how drastic this changes are and how frequently they will be.
Theoretically classes that rely on dots will suffer the most.
PvP will be back to unkilleable tanks aka skilled players.
One thing devs have said in their stream is they want us to have a variety of choices instead of picking what do the most dps.
To me that means i should be able to do the same damage with a spammble "rotations" and with damage over time based rotation. So far, i think dots in this pts cycle are a bit behind from spammables.
So i dunno, if i have to decide what i would change is how cp works first and how that should be personalized into the play style you prefer.
If i choose buff my dots then my burst abilities should be weaker and vice versa. But right now cp allows you buff pretty much all your abilities equally making all abilities virtually the same without downsides.
The people going for Godslayer will be effected.
But the people who are working CR+3 will be effected as well.
And the guilds who are just setting their toe into vAA.
And the people who only do vet dungeons, and the people who want to do vet dungeons.
This change effects everyone who is doing anything endgame.
Just consider that all those hm before Elsweyr were achievable.
I'm an soloist that pug's everything and yes hm speedruns nd was able to be done among unfamiliar groups of players for crag trials and for bace game dungeons , when it came to dlc its more an struggle to get the right group's but yes hm nd speenruns could be done and some guilds have them down to the point they can sale runs to the non guild members of the game that wanted the easy guaranteed group not the if we build it they will come after so many trys group's SO YES EVERYTHING WAS DOABLE YOU JUST HAD TO 1 work for it or 2 buy it but now its going to always be work hard JUST finding an group and the guilds that sold runs to others aint going to beable too anymore as they will struggle themselves just to do it and take in mind this aint coming from an member of an guild its coming from an soloist pug player that likes to work for their achievements but do i see it being feasible in the present no guild groups maybe but common players NOT AT ALL2 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »@Nordic__Knights try looking at the 2 linked images before assuming bastion cheese. 1 of them lists CP, sets, skills etc. Theres literally 0 reason to post a fake parse on the forums - you'd get memed off the planet.
@Kerioko roughly once every 2 or 3 wall of elements. The cost increase to wall is an indirect buff to spell symmetry because of the % cost reduction. I agree if the changes go away from dots back towards direct dmg then classes that use the most direct dmg will benefit the most - imo sorcs and warden. Unfortunate time to be a dot-heavy class like DK or necro.
Okay I look and I seen them thank you very much for pinpointing that because usually I don't look at phase slips just based on like I said most people don't show what you just did they show the rotation it show the damage output but they don't really ever show their CP and skill setup you happen to do so good job guy I now call your stuff validEdited by Nordic__Knights on September 21, 2019 1:06AM0 -
Aerenel✭✭✭I'm most interested to see nightblade parses? The discords I'm in have been unusually quiet on the testing front. I always had it in my mind that nightblade was a direct dmg heavy class because of surprise attack but my memory could be fuzzy.
Any nightblade mains care to share?0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »I'm most interested to see nightblade parses? The discords I'm in have been unusually quiet on the testing front.
Yes, idk what's going on. It's like nobody wants to even log into this PTS, or maybe they've just all quit already. Looks like there are maybe 3 of us testing Sorc, and I've done a little work on Templar and Warden, but the typical rush to the PTS to compare results and brainstorm ideas seems nearly nonexistent this update.1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »I'm most interested to see nightblade parses? The discords I'm in have been unusually quiet on the testing front.
Yes, idk what's going on. It's like nobody wants to even log into this PTS, or maybe they've just all quit already. Looks like there are maybe 3 of us testing Sorc, and I've done a little work on Templar and Warden, but the typical rush to the PTS to compare results and brainstorm ideas seems nearly nonexistent this update.
No one's really all that excited to see their DPS go down by 15-25k.
Beyond that ... not much practicing to do. Everyone seems to be in agreement that rotations have been dumbed down to the point where calling them "rotations" isn't even really appropriate.
A lot of people seem to have their fingers crossed that ZOS is going to wise up and dial back the DoT nerfs a bit in further patches and maybe they'll do testing then.2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Can someone please do 6M dummy test? These trial test dummy pars are so unrealistic as you have 100% uptime on every offensive buff on the game and that is down straight light, almost impossible to do so. That is why I think the 6M dummy give you the actual dmg you do with old major fracture/breach and orbs.2 -
Ysbriel✭✭✭✭✭Can PTS expamples be with the regular non buffed parse dummy? not everybody runs in organized trial groups with all the buffs going perfectly at the same time.0 -
Kerioko✭✭✭✭graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »@Nordic__Knights try looking at the 2 linked images before assuming bastion cheese. 1 of them lists CP, sets, skills etc. Theres literally 0 reason to post a fake parse on the forums - you'd get memed off the planet.
@Kerioko roughly once every 2 or 3 wall of elements. The cost increase to wall is an indirect buff to spell symmetry because of the % cost reduction. I agree if the changes go away from dots back towards direct dmg then classes that use the most direct dmg will benefit the most - imo sorcs and warden. Unfortunate time to be a dot-heavy class like DK or necro.
I was pulling 65-75K on my old heavy attack pet sorc before the dot meta.
Typical setup: 5 MS/5 Necro/2 Zaan with vMA backbar
1. curse, frags, pet, pet, bound, meteor
2. blockade, liquid, ward, pet, pet, atro
rotation: LA weave dots, pets, curse and frags, then 2HA
for dot meta, swapped out liquid and pigeon for reach, degeneration, and soul trap
I am currently pulling 70-80K on live with same general rotation, just went from shock to fire staves.
On pts, I tried both the above builds with the same setups and rotations.
Sustain is still OK cause they are HA attack builds, but average dps dropped to 60-70K for both setups.
I tried your setup you posted with my gear MS and Necro using crushing shock instead of elemental weapon. DPS has averaged out to 65-75K now that I have the rotation down.
All in all, magsorc has had the nerf bat these past few patches, but I am still clearing the same content and my rotation hasn't switched to drastic. Can still 1bar clear vMA, heal vet DLC dungeons with dps build and heal pigeon. Haven't tested trials on pts though, hard to find groups!
Dinosaur Chicken Nuggets - Argonian mNB Tank/Heals (PVP)
Strawberry Semifreddo - Dunmer mSorc DPS // Sunny D-Light - Breton mTemp Heals
Peanut Butter Sandwich - Orc sDK DPS // Kellogg's Frosted Flakes - Argonian mWard Tank/Heals (PVE)Cor-Leonisfriendship - integrity - perseverance2
