DPS is going to be just fine (marsorc parse example)

Aerenel

To those who asked for 6M numbers, I never do those anymore. Most raiders I know use trial dummy for parse comparisons so everything is standardized and you don't have to dig into which class gave themselves specific buffs that inflated their performance compared to a different class. It's a way of removing variables for a clean test.

LiquidPony

Ysbriel wrote: »

Can PTS expamples be with the regular non buffed parse dummy? not everybody runs in organized trial groups with all the buffs going perfectly at the same time.

If you want 6m tests, why don't you test it yourself?

universal_wrath wrote: »

Can someone please do 6M dummy test? These trial test dummy pars are so unrealistic as you have 100% uptime on every offensive buff on the game and that is down straight light, almost impossible to do so. That is why I think the 6M dummy give you the actual dmg you do with old major fracture/breach and orbs.

In an organized group in a static-ish fight, you can do higher DPS in real content than you can on a raid dummy. Raid dummies don't give you Master's Resto sustain, or Martial Knowledge or Z'en, or high Major Vulnerability uptime.

Look at the top parses on Yolo on esologs.com. By active DPS (i.e., when the dragon's not flying around), people are doing ~115k DPS on the boss.

universal_wrath

Ysbriel wrote: »

Can PTS expamples be with the regular non buffed parse dummy? not everybody runs in organized trial groups with all the buffs going perfectly at the same time.

I did test my stamsorc on PTS, i was setting around 30k wearing 5 VO, 5 spriggon/blood moon/AY, and Grunwulf for sustain. Sustain is bad nex patch i would say.

universal_wrath

universal_wrath wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

Can PTS expamples be with the regular non buffed parse dummy? not everybody runs in organized trial groups with all the buffs going perfectly at the same time.

I did test my stamsorc on PTS, i was setting around 30k wearing 5 VO, 5 spriggon/blood moon/AY, and Grunwulf for sustain. Sustain is bad nex patch i would say.

That is 5k DPS loss from scalebreaker for me atleast.

Ysbriel

universal_wrath wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

Can PTS expamples be with the regular non buffed parse dummy? not everybody runs in organized trial groups with all the buffs going perfectly at the same time.

I did test my stamsorc on PTS, i was setting around 30k wearing 5 VO, 5 spriggon/blood moon/AY, and Grunwulf for sustain. Sustain is bad nex patch i would say.

Thanks for the useful information, I run VO/Hundings/Velidreth, i already lost 4k DPS this patch and was struggling with sustain as well, going though potions faster than a happy hour.

Zalathorm

graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »

Long-time lurker, wanted to give a little optimism here since everybody wants to unsub. Did a few quick magsorc parses on PTS and the class should still be able to do plenty of damage to clear all hard mode trials. I'm sure once the big theorycrafters do some testing on other classes they'll be in the same range.

DPS gonna be just fine.

You chose to parse on what is quite possibly the highest parsing build on PTS, and conclude that all DPS are just fine.....

Most of the other classes are around 80k.

Also, please note that this is simply a static dummy fight. In all likelihood, the loss of DoT and AoE abilities will have be MORE SIGNIFICANT in real combat. DoTs allowed you to apply damage and do mechanics more seemlessly. In the world of light attacks and spammable use, damage while doing mechanics will go way down. The loss to AoE is huge and not reflected in your parse. The nerf to sustain is huge, and not reflected in your parse.

Your analysis is too shallow and your conclusion too broad.

universal_wrath

Beside the fact that most dots were nerfed, a lot of skills such as elemntal wall and arrow barrage had their cost increase by signeficat margine. Hince people will straggle more with sustain than with dps. When i did my parses, i was able to get 30k on 6m dummy, but i had to throw in multiple heavy attacks because of heavy stamina consumption.

goldenarcher1

I'm sure DPS will be just fine in next patch.

InvictusApollo

SirAndy wrote: »

Hey look, i made a specific build work OK with the new changes, so therefore there is no possible way something could be wrong with any of the existing characters out there that people have come to enjoy playing!

You do know what the second "M" in MMO stands for, yes?

Menstruation? It's Massive Menstruation Online right? Cause I hear a lot of whining and overeacting.

Muzzick

universal_wrath wrote: »

graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »

Long-time lurker, wanted to give a little optimism here since everybody wants to unsub. Did a few quick magsorc parses on PTS and the class should still be able to do plenty of damage to clear all hard mode trials. I'm sure once the big theorycrafters do some testing on other classes they'll be in the same range.

DPS gonna be just fine.

You chose to parse on what is quite possibly the highest parsing build on PTS, and conclude that all DPS are just fine.....

Most of the other classes are around 80k.

Also, please note that this is simply a static dummy fight. In all likelihood, the loss of DoT and AoE abilities will have be MORE SIGNIFICANT in real combat. DoTs allowed you to apply damage and do mechanics more seemlessly. In the world of light attacks and spammable use, damage while doing mechanics will go way down. The loss to AoE is huge and not reflected in your parse. The nerf to sustain is huge, and not reflected in your parse.

Your analysis is too shallow and your conclusion too broad.

Agree here which is why I wish the next dummy has add phases more reflective of a real fight

Aerenel

You don't need a new dummy to give add phases and mechanics, you need to do a few trials.

Muzzick

graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »

You don't need a new dummy to give add phases and mechanics, you need to do a few trials.

Aoe damage is important, and your initial post you were trying to make a point with a single target parse which doesn't prove anything regarding aoe. I didn't know you could do trials on the PTS, or you're saying we should go by your post and wait 5 weeks to find out?

SidraWillowsky

graham.thomascb14_ESO wrote: »

To those who asked for 6M numbers, I never do those anymore. Most raiders I know use trial dummy for parse comparisons so everything is standardized and you don't have to dig into which class gave themselves specific buffs that inflated their performance compared to a different class. It's a way of removing variables for a clean test.

A lot of us aren't in these organized end-game vet trial groups though- if you're pretty casual, you'll never come anywhere near the 21 mil numbers in actuality.

Source: me. The guilds/friends I run with are all focused on doing their best, but none of them are designated end-game trials guilds. We do vet trials and all, but we're just not SUPER concerned about organizing every last detail to maximize DPS. My 6 mil parses are between 45 and 50k depending on the char, and the absolute best I've done in a static trial fight is about 60k, and that was once. I usually hover between 45 and 55k. My best 21 mil parse is 82k, which just isn't realistic given the way I choose to play the game. So for me personally, the 6 mil is a much more accurate reflection of where I stand.

This is all just to say that it's totally reasonable for people to ask for those. I'm not calling you out, OP, because your explanation makes sense, but people have scoffed at me for posting 6 mil parses in various Discord channels, and I just don't see why they're suddenly mocked and eschewed. I understand the "standardization" thing, but I'm lucky if I see half of those buffs in my trial CMX reports, and I certainly never see 100% uptime unless I'm providing it myself (ie, I keep Bird of Prey double-barred on my magden because my Berserk uptime isn't high enough when I depend on others for it.

All that being said, I'll post some 6 mil parses in a new thread later tonight or tomorrow.

Aerenel

I agree AOE is going to be harder to achieve without making ST sacrifices next patch with existing PTS meta. Nothing stopping people from including more aoe dots in their "rotation" as needed to cleave stacks. Everything is so spammable heavy right now it shouldn't complicate rotations too much either.