Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

B u l l ***.

Royalthought wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?

Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.

Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.

Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.

Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.

Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.

Interesting contrast tbh.

Seems they missed this in their "audit".

It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring

On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.

It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.

To elaborate

Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol

Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol

What does any of this have to do with not making Grim Focus a copy of a Sorc skill? The comment I replied to specifically called having to light attack five times in order to proc the bow "boring". I'm all for improvements, as I've made clear, but trading the LA condition in for RNG à la Frags is an unappealing thought.

I posted an example of contrast in skills illustrating nightblades uniquely having punishment built into their skills and their usage.

@kind_hero agreed saying "they missed that in their audit" suggesting it (grim focus) be made similar to other signature burst skills; freeing nightblades to benefit from using other skills like crystal frag.

In response you said:

"On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay."

Nightblades uniquely being limited and having punishment baked into their kit is not "good." The previous post elaborated that point.

It isn't about if you are right or not about how merciless should proc, to be honest, I stated a preference... this is how I would like it to be.. or something in that line. 5 x LA to fire a not so powerful and slow projectile does not feel rewarding in my experience... and again, it is my preference. Maybe you like it this way and it is fine. 1st of all people should think.. is this mechanic fun? To me crystal frag is more fun than how the bow proc is now. In the past, yes, it felt awesome... now not so much.

Maybe there can be an other way to proc it... but it should give you more control... Thing is, outside of pve bosses, this ability gets wasted or shot at trash mobs at best. In PvP it does not feel like it is very powerful (like it sounds). So that's why I suggested a change.

L.E. When I don't get to fire a bow proc because the target dies or goes away, I feel more sorry than wasting a crystal frag proc... because that one is easier to get. You work more for your bow proc than other classes work for their procs, at least this is my feeling.

kind_hero wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

blnchk wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?

Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.

Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.

Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.

Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.

Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.

Interesting contrast tbh.

Seems they missed this in their "audit".

It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring

On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.

It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.

To elaborate

Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol

Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol

What does any of this have to do with not making Grim Focus a copy of a Sorc skill? The comment I replied to specifically called having to light attack five times in order to proc the bow "boring". I'm all for improvements, as I've made clear, but trading the LA condition in for RNG à la Frags is an unappealing thought.

I posted an example of contrast in skills illustrating nightblades uniquely having punishment built into their skills and their usage.

@kind_hero agreed saying "they missed that in their audit" suggesting it (grim focus) be made similar to other signature burst skills; freeing nightblades to benefit from using other skills like crystal frag.

In response you said:

"On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay."

Nightblades uniquely being limited and having punishment baked into their kit is not "good." The previous post elaborated that point.

It isn't about if you are right or not about how merciless should proc, to be honest, I stated a preference... this is how I would like it to be.. or something in that line. 5 x LA to fire a not so powerful and slow projectile does not feel rewarding in my experience... and again, it is my preference. Maybe you like it this way and it is fine. 1st of all people should think.. is this mechanic fun? To me crystal frag is more fun than how the bow proc is now. In the past, yes, it felt awesome... now not so much.

Maybe there can be an other way to proc it... but it should give you more control... Thing is, outside of pve bosses, this ability gets wasted or shot at trash mobs at best. In PvP it does not feel like it is very powerful (like it sounds). So that's why I suggested a change.

L.E. When I don't get to fire a bow proc because the target dies or goes away, I feel more sorry than wasting a crystal frag proc... because that one is easier to get. You work more for your bow proc than other classes work for their procs, at least this is my feeling.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Wasnt aiming at right or wrong either. That was a response to post from someone else.

As far as grim focus, I'm pretty much in the same but. I support whatever improvements can be made to the class.

As far as what specifically should be done I haven't taken a stance. Simply outlined the differences in skills to show where the improvements can be made.

The only thing I disagreed with was the other person saying, basically keep it this way, for uniqueness.

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Ah, dueling. That comment makes much more sense now. Clearly the whole game, and PvP zones included, should be designed around dueling in pve zones with PvE builds, where the only reward is being able to compare ePeens.

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Ah, dueling. That comment makes much more sense now. Clearly the whole game, and PvP zones included, should be designed around dueling in pve zones with PvE builds, where the only reward is being able to compare ePeens.

Yeah not very much real PVP testing on PTS or pve testing. I know Arax us rumored to have a 67k tooltip on bow though

I call BS, at 10.7k weapon damage, 81 CP in Direct damage, 33k stamina, 13% in Mighty, my bow proc tooltip is 46k.

Also in actual combat you will hit higher damage with bow proc and pretty much everything else on a build with 7-8k weapon damage and 210%+ crit dmg modifier. Resists is made useless by Onslaught, so you might as well have 0 resists. I regularly hit 15k+ bow proc on my glass cannon setup.

On magblade, I can see the right build getting upto around 55k without the Bastion exploit. If you are including the bastion bug, it is a whole different story all together then as people are getting upto 20%+ damage from it.

This is my favorite class that I cannot enjoy playing because it gets broken so many times over, and over. Class definition wise, this ESO version is so far off the reservation of the class original concept that it's not even funny. All these community Class representative and adjoining developers have completely lost sight of what the Nightblade class is or was in any other editions of Elder Scrolls, in which all of our skill trees are a mess and many are ambiguous.

At least rework our skill trees,

Assassination

• Assassin's Blade
• Veiled Strike < moved from Shadow Tree
• Add Melee DOT < re-purpose Debilitate from Siphoning Tree
• Marked Target
• Grim Focus < adopt current Bound Armament skill mechanic proposal, as the skill to hold up pressure while weaving Light Attacks.

Shadow

• Teleport Strike < moved from Assassination Tree (e.g. Shadow Step/Strike)
• Shadow Cloak
• Blur > moved from Assassination Tree
• Aspect of Terror
• Summon Shade

Siphoning - Despite, Nightshades not having a magic affinity to Blood Magic

• Strife
• Malevolent Offering
• Malevolent (Shadow) Path > rework and move to Siphoning (PBAoE)
• Siphoning Strikes
• Drain Power

Rework Transfer into something sinister, such as +% Alchemical Poison effects then gain Ultimate when Catalyst offers gain Ultimate. At least than, Blood Magicians can use their dark arts with alchemy. However, the Class representatives and the adjoining developers move forward with the class, I sincerely hope they stop wrecking this awesome class.

Here's some bugs for Shadow Image that I definitely don't see fixes for:

https://xboxclips.com/Lich This/8d3ec60a-db64-4daf-bb98-02640c17adf9/embed

https://xboxclips.com/Lich This/18b29275-d7ff-4ea0-a4a4-0bae347df245/embed

https://xboxclips.com/Lich This/433a430d-4fc1-41d3-ba2a-eb591a62d844/embed

But you still got time to nerf it right?

Wishlist for Nbs after testing:
- Unnerf the range of Shadow Image
- Remove the cast time from ultimates (I really hate to point on others but Templar, who is the strongest class right now doesn't have one on it's ultimate, this shows blatant dev bias. I'd play WoW Classic if I'd like cast times...)
- Buff Strife
- Buff magblade sustain (offensive sustain looks ok, but defense on magblade is too expensive)
- Buff Poison Injection and Cripple, give Cripple something like minor vuln instead of Lotus Fan... (and buff dots in general while you're at it...)
- Don't dare to nerf New Moon Acolythe, dmg on PTS is already horrible low...

thankyourat wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Have you ever thought that maybe those magblades are just overall a lot better than you are? Most nightblades aren’t built like crap we are built to play in Cyrodil so that means adding in a lot more sustain and mobility. Also magblade isn’t a top tier dueling class anymore it’s not bad but it’s not great either like it was before murkmire. Stam dk, magdk, magplar and stamplar are all better dueling classes than magblade.

On my dueling build with 62k mag and almost 3k spell damage my bow tooltip is about 30k but I would never try to 1vX with that build because it doesn’t have the survivability or sustain needed for open world Cyrodil. If you are getting hit by 15.7k bows you didn’t have any buffs up. I’ve hit people for over 20k bow procs but those are rare. Light armor builds I usually hit for 15k, medium armor I usually hit for around 12k and heavy armor I usually hit around 8k. This is assuming that the bow crits and I have the damage boost from soul harvest and minor vulnerability from lightning enchant.

In no way is stamina crap. Stamden, stamplar , and stam dk are all elite classes stam dk is probably the best class in the whole game. Also any class that wears 3 damage sets will hit like a truck. I’ve been hit with 10k d-swings and 17k onslaughts

It's cute you think I'm bad because I get hit by 15k bows by a limited selection of nightblades. If you read my original post I said while having armor cap in game. He's a crit based build and always crits bows, it's not just me but half the people who duel them. This is true for a limited selection.

While I think bow is overscaled, I also forget the average player is bad and find a way to blame everything else but a good built class and the potential it can have.

Nightblades bow is probably the only reason it's a good class in PVP tbh, but those built right definitely make it overpowered and there's a reason why on PTS they don't duel because they're afraid someone will cry nerf.

I'll post a few videos if I can of it hitting constantly over 10k with me at 35k physical and spell resis with 2.5k crit resis. And all dots purged.


Your knowledge of pts is showing to saying dk is still #1. DK took the biggest meta change overall. It took the hardest nerfs.

If you played you'd realize certain stamina classes took a large hit and can't pressure as easily. Stamden and stamplar right now are doing the best to pressure while everyone else is going magicka.

If you get hit by dswing, are you bad? I'd say it lands 1/10th the time. And yes onslaught hits hard. But, all Ulta left for stamina is onslaught, leap, and bow.

Have you tried dodging the bow? Rumors say this reduces it's dmg to zero ...

Now you're contradicting yourself. You didn't say nerf it, but you were strongly implying it:

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

Also, if you apparently have no trouble dodging it since 'you dodge it all the time' how can it be over performing?

In no way did you also say that you wanted other NB skills to be brought up to par until just now. Lol. I'm also not tilted, get off your high horse.

Your stance changed mid conversation imo lol. Anyway im fine with the final form of your POV. Definitely agree! Restore some power points in nightblades. But imo they're fine in the offensive department. What they need is a reduction to clunkiness.

Casterial wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Have you ever thought that maybe those magblades are just overall a lot better than you are? Most nightblades aren’t built like crap we are built to play in Cyrodil so that means adding in a lot more sustain and mobility. Also magblade isn’t a top tier dueling class anymore it’s not bad but it’s not great either like it was before murkmire. Stam dk, magdk, magplar and stamplar are all better dueling classes than magblade.

On my dueling build with 62k mag and almost 3k spell damage my bow tooltip is about 30k but I would never try to 1vX with that build because it doesn’t have the survivability or sustain needed for open world Cyrodil. If you are getting hit by 15.7k bows you didn’t have any buffs up. I’ve hit people for over 20k bow procs but those are rare. Light armor builds I usually hit for 15k, medium armor I usually hit for around 12k and heavy armor I usually hit around 8k. This is assuming that the bow crits and I have the damage boost from soul harvest and minor vulnerability from lightning enchant.

In no way is stamina crap. Stamden, stamplar , and stam dk are all elite classes stam dk is probably the best class in the whole game. Also any class that wears 3 damage sets will hit like a truck. I’ve been hit with 10k d-swings and 17k onslaughts

It's cute you think I'm bad because I get hit by 15k bows by a limited selection of nightblades. If you read my original post I said while having armor cap in game. He's a crit based build and always crits bows, it's not just me but half the people who duel them. This is true for a limited selection.

While I think bow is overscaled, I also forget the average player is bad and find a way to blame everything else but a good built class and the potential it can have.

Nightblades bow is probably the only reason it's a good class in PVP tbh, but those built right definitely make it overpowered and there's a reason why on PTS they don't duel because they're afraid someone will cry nerf.

I'll post a few videos if I can of it hitting constantly over 10k with me at 35k physical and spell resis with 2.5k crit resis. And all dots purged.


Your knowledge of pts is showing to saying dk is still #1. DK took the biggest meta change overall. It took the hardest nerfs.

If you played you'd realize certain stamina classes took a large hit and can't pressure as easily. Stamden and stamplar right now are doing the best to pressure while everyone else is going magicka.

If you get hit by dswing, are you bad? I'd say it lands 1/10th the time. And yes onslaught hits hard. But, all Ulta left for stamina is onslaught, leap, and bow.

I can repeat myself: Pts is buggy, magnbs hit for more than they should (with bastion CP and shields).

Casterial wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Nightblades bow is overperfming now that all other damage sources have been nerfed.

I call bull, fudging , s*** on this statement. Have you even played PvP? You are lucky if the bow proc even hits after all the unwarranted nerfs Grim Focus got. I've seen players laugh it off without even blocking the projectile.

I duel nightblades 24/7, Araxleon for example hits 15.7k bows at me with 35k physical and spell resistance. Kena does same, fear near same, Exhumed near same.

While most nightblades are built like crap, those built right hit like a truck.

I don't think StamNb needs anymore nerfs, but a good magnb is able to roll over a lot now. Especially with stamina being crap we cant push MagNb to go defensive anymore, same issue with MagSorc and good Magdens now. (U24)

Those magblade builds use onslaught and mechanical acuity. If you’re down with nerfing onslaught then by all means let’s nerf it.

You’re pointing at the class and trying to skirt the real issue because you want to keep an OP stamina option - onslaught. You’re coming across as really biased.