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PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade
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Sporvan✭✭✭✭✭1. Mass Hysteria still has no class identity over generic Circle of Protection
2. Debilitate had a fun niche as off-healer damage with Magicka Steal. Why would I slot this now over boring generic Elemental Drain?
3. Twisting Path had its damage reduced more than Wall of Elements which benefits from weapon line passives... yet another slap in the face.5 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is Grim Focus's heal 7 meters?
Grim Focus's heal should have the same range as the spectral bow.6 -
blnchk✭✭✭✭✭Since we'll be sharing Grim Focus, our identity-establishing class gimmick, with StamSorcs, can we in turn receive a variation of Lightning Form?10 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamblade need better selfheals (minor mending pls?)
A cast time on Soul Siphon is beyond dumb imo, its an emergency heal ulti and with a cast time you cant reliably use it as such...wich is quite contradictive.. Fix pls.
PC EU
PvP only9 -
Zalathorm✭✭✭✭Stamblade need better selfheals (minor mending pls?)
A cast time on Soul Siphon is beyond dumb imo, its an emergency heal ulti and with a cast time you cant reliably use it as such...wich is quite contradictive.. Fix pls.
They attempted to give suitability / self heal on grim focus. They should have kept grim focus damage oriented (assassination tree, hello), and put the damage mitigation and heal on something else.8 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamblade need better selfheals (minor mending pls?)
A cast time on Soul Siphon is beyond dumb imo, its an emergency heal ulti and with a cast time you cant reliably use it as such...wich is quite contradictive.. Fix pls.
They attempted to give suitability / self heal on grim focus. They should have kept grim focus damage oriented (assassination tree, hello), and put the damage mitigation and heal on something else.
It's interesting they tried to buff melee magblades but in the end they nerfed them, and claim it's better now. And somehow they've made a conclusion that magblades are so OP that they deserve even more nerfs, while giving new toys to stam wardens and templars. I really start to think that devs hate magblades.Edited by Mayrael on September 18, 2019 4:15AMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.5 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Stamblade need better selfheals (minor mending pls?)
A cast time on Soul Siphon is beyond dumb imo, its an emergency heal ulti and with a cast time you cant reliably use it as such...wich is quite contradictive.. Fix pls.
They attempted to give suitability / self heal on grim focus. They should have kept grim focus damage oriented (assassination tree, hello), and put the damage mitigation and heal on something else.
They could've easily put the damage mitigation/heal from dark cloak on blur.
They're intentionally limiting the class by ignoring useless class abilities and instead taking away from signature class skills.
Nightblades need a heal? Make them give up cloak.
Nightblades need damage mitigation? They can't use their bow.
Imagine if wardens heal was the other morph of sub assault. Sorc shield was the other morph of streak. That's what they've done to nightblades in addition to all the nerfs.11 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I will post my feedback from another post here just in case it was missed @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler :
Why are you continually nerfing the most underused Nightblade abilities with each patch? Summon Shade, Path of Darkness, Cripple, and especially Incapacitating Strike...
Grim focus has also been nerfed unfairly over the last several patches. Grim Focus is one of the few unique abilities NBs have now (barring cloak), and you are giving a similar, overloaded version of Grim Focus to Sorcerers this patch with Bound Armaments rework when previously it was decided that Grim Focus was "too overloaded." If you really go through with this, then at least give Grim focus its minor Berserk back (take away the dumb heal if you need to, it's not a tank ability and the 7m range was too short to help anyway). Sorcs can get major berserk for their Storm Atronach just by having someone use their synergy so I don't know why minor berserk on solo nbs is such a problem.
Another NB pain point is Aspect of Terror. Who in their right mind would run this skill instead of the Fighter's Guild Turn Evil? Turn Evil: Minor Protection? check. Minor Endurance? check. Unlimited targets for the same radius as AoT? check. Increased weapon power via Fighter's guild passive? check. Aspect of Terror meanwhile gets... Major Resolve/Ward for 6s on cast and passive 3% hp... big flippin' deal.
Incap Strike is also useless in PvP now, only noobs who don't know how to play yet will get hit by it. I haven't seen Incap in my death recap screen, and I haven't killed anyone with it since the removal of stun and the removal of animation canceling, in fact it rarely even lands now even if you fear or stun the enemy beforehand, they just break free and avoid it. Silence on Incap has 0 value when your opponent is stam-based.
Did NBs need some nerfs in the past? Sure, I'm not saying they weren't over-performing in previous patches, but now it feels like they are going too far in some places, and Nightblades' identity feels a lot less unique than it once was. Most importantly, it was fun to play a Nightblade, but now it's not, its just become a generic class with very little to establish their identity as shadow mages. The slight change (buff?) to Lotus Fan and Drain Power in patch 5.2.0 is welcome i guess, but its more of a fix than improvement, and the cost increases just make the nerfs even worse.6 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭I am disappointed to see lack of vision for nightblade. Need to bring back class identity, quit stripping it away and giving it to others. 5 light attacks that release a big attack. Call it a dagger instead of a bow and wow now sorcs have identity. You simply can't make this stuff up.
Feedback, to temporarily fix nightblades revert the changes to surprise attack and merciless until you figure out a way to make the class enjoyable again. Its that simple, but you won't do it.
I was waiting on the sidelines to see if there was a chance with this patch that the game might be fun again, but looks like I won't be back anytime soon. BL3 has some cool classes with unique abilities, might want to check it out to get some ideas. Its fun to play different classes with different play styles, maybe I am just a small minority that really enjoyed this aspect of the game so my impact doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
I've played every class with every role, but my first character and main has always been a nightblade. Unfortunately it just no longer feels like anything special. I had some amazing times while it lasted, thanks for those. I wish ESO the best of luck.
< Xbox NA PVE >11 -
they need to buff merciless again. in longer rotations you lose dmg while casting (for nothing) . at higher ping your light attacks dont come out and you wondering why the spectral bow isnt ready. this class has one of the hardest rotations and should be rewarded if you can master it and not punished. the aoes from nbs are nothing, everbody knows that, so support a little bit the single target skill.
or delete completly the senseless (atm) merciless cast and make them after 4-5 light attacks ready to use the spectral bow.
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since we'll be sharing Grim Focus, our identity-establishing class gimmick, with StamSorcs, can we in turn receive a variation of Lightning Form?
I'd prefer to change summon shade into "Dark... Bunny Hop" - you teleport your self 22 meters ahead leaving little poops on your original position that snare your enemies and deal damage (like shade did).I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
there is no class identity, we move backwards. any player/groups will have probs to find a raid grp. i see the mass leavings in randoms pledges, because illambris dont want falling. the answer cant be to reduce the timer to 10min
i know it from xbox, player who dont have 30k dps they will be sorted out. it would be repeated. this is not a new "good idea"...that has happened before.0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.12 -
Aztlan✭✭✭✭With regard to class identity, the assassin class needs to have very strong up-front, single-target burst--better than any other class. However we get back to that, it needs to happen. Nothing in this patch addresses this.11 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭The shadow image change is bad. Majority of people already think magblade is a bad class so what’s the point of nerfing magblades key abilities patch after patch.7 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Dont rely on grim focus for the heal imo.2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »The shadow image change is bad. Majority of people already think magblade is a bad class so what’s the point of nerfing magblades key abilities patch after patch.
I can't get it to. My believe is that devs don't like skillful gameplay so they nerf skills like this and make them more casual friendly to counter so every potato can mash that gapcloser till you die. No player skill allowed.
Shade range nerf is total buIIshat.
Same as grim focus. Now they give similar skill to stam sorcs. So can we get some nice minor buff to Merciless? Or even better, since you limited our options to get major sorcery, can Merciless give us major sorcery?I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.3 -
BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can you just get on with removing cloak already, so that I can give up on nightblade completely. You've chipped away at the class so much, you may as well finish the job and remove hope entirely.Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)0 -
zammo✭✭✭22m Shade is useless over the course of a full fight, as no open world fight is that static. For a start, you don't place the Shade at your opponents location. You place the shade a bit away, then engage. So you've already eaten up a chunk of that 22m before you open up. The fight then spills a few metres further away, and you're out of range. If you then re-summon, you're on top of it, and it's useless again until you move the fight away from it, and the cycle continues.
I know ZOS don't want solutions, just the pain points, but whatever...
If shade can only now be 22m to adhere to "gap creator standard", how about tethering it to the player? You place the shade and go about your business; once you step further than 22m, the shade then follows you maintaining that max distance. Close the distance to the shade, and he stands still. You can then always teleport when needed, but only ever to a max distance of the "gap creator standard".4 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter5 -
blnchk✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring
On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Gilliam
Thanks for making Twisting Path a meme. Good work. Really makes NB unique. What's that? Remove the DoT from Twisting Path and change it into glowing flowers that can increase mount speed? Why not?7 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring
On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.
It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.
To elaborate
Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol
Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol6 -
blnchk✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring
On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.
It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.
To elaborate
Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol
Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol
What does any of this have to do with not making Grim Focus a copy of a Sorc skill? The comment I replied to specifically called having to light attack five times in order to proc the bow "boring". I'm all for improvements, as I've made clear, but trading the LA condition in for RNG à la Frags is an unappealing thought.0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring
On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.
It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.
To elaborate
Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol
Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol
What does any of this have to do with not making Grim Focus a copy of a Sorc skill? The comment I replied to specifically called having to light attack five times in order to proc the bow "boring". I'm all for improvements, as I've made clear, but trading the LA condition in for RNG à la Frags is an unappealing thought.
I posted an example of contrast in skills illustrating nightblades uniquely having punishment built into their skills and their usage.
@kind_hero agreed saying "they missed that in their audit" suggesting it (grim focus) be made similar to other signature burst skills; freeing nightblades to benefit from using other skills like crystal frag.
In response you said:
"On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay."
Nightblades uniquely being limited and having punishment baked into their kit is not "good." The previous post elaborated that point.Edited by Royalthought on September 19, 2019 2:56PM2 -
blnchk✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring
On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.
It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.
To elaborate
Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol
Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol
What does any of this have to do with not making Grim Focus a copy of a Sorc skill? The comment I replied to specifically called having to light attack five times in order to proc the bow "boring". I'm all for improvements, as I've made clear, but trading the LA condition in for RNG à la Frags is an unappealing thought.
...
For the last time: I am not interested in having the proc condition of Grim Focus function like Frags. This is precisely what the comment above me suggested, and it's what I based my reply on. I am also not interested I arguing about some sort of unique victim complex. Do you seriously think only the NB kit has drawbacks?
I'd like for the classes to play differently, and these gimmicks is all we have. Does Grim Focus need work? Goodness, yes. Does it need to imitate the mechanics of other classes' signature skills to be made enjoyable, like Bound Armaments now does? I sure hope not. This notion is something you see a lot on these forums, and it's unfortunate. "Give us what this other class has, but make it deal orange damage instead of purple!"
Don't get me wrong, your point holds some merit, even though the specifics are debatable. You're barking up the wrong tree, however. And please don't put words in my mouth.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just go stam warden or magplar next patch. Both are among best specs now and will be even better (the only two classes that besides of nerfs to dots recieved serious buffs). Steadfast hero on both will be amazing (50% uptime on major protection, on stam warden auto casted due to new bullnetch functionality). Just let magblades extinct.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Can we also change it so that we proc the spectral bow even without 5 stacks?
Molten Whip: Activating any ardent abilities proc.
Crystal frag: Other mag abilities have a chance to proc.
Backlash: Damage taken from anyone grants boosted proc.
Other classes can heal, aoe, be on the defensive or offensive and still achieve their burst while sacrificing no defense.
Grim focus: must land required weapon attacks to be granted proc. Firing proc removes mitigation and if they're more than 7 meters or simply miss they gain no heal.
Interesting contrast tbh.
Seems they missed this in their "audit".
It would be awesome to have the bow proc like crystal fragments does, based on using your abilities or whatever. 5x LA is boring
On the contrary, I think it's good that the skills function differently. That has to stay. I'm ambivalent about the defensive minigame, but what definitely needs to go is the empty cast of a buff that does nothing. It's unnecessarily tedious upkeep. I'd welcome taking a leaf out of Sorcs' book here to have Grim Focus just be active while slotted.
It's not about skills functioning differently. It's nightblades being punished for using class skills while others gain multiple benefits.
To elaborate
Firing a bow, lose mitigation. Slot cloak, lose best class heal. Apply major fracture, use a gcd doing no damage alerting the enemy. Mark 2nd target grant free purge of the effect to 1st. Lol
Nightblades went from an efficient burst class to nerfed damage and cumbersome. For ex: Shade, place and create distance. So they nerf distance to punish nightblades for creating distance. Nightblade makes mistake and needs to replace shade so they've increased tho cost. Lol
What does any of this have to do with not making Grim Focus a copy of a Sorc skill? The comment I replied to specifically called having to light attack five times in order to proc the bow "boring". I'm all for improvements, as I've made clear, but trading the LA condition in for RNG à la Frags is an unappealing thought.
...
For the last time: I am not interested in having the proc condition of Grim Focus function like Frags. This is precisely what the comment above me suggested, and it's what I based my reply on. I am also not interested I arguing about some sort of unique victim complex. Do you seriously think only the NB kit has drawbacks?
I'd like for the classes to play differently, and these gimmicks is all we have. Does Grim Focus need work? Goodness, yes. Does it need to imitate the mechanics of other classes' signature skills to be made enjoyable, like Bound Armaments now does? I sure hope not. This notion is something you see a lot on these forums, and it's unfortunate. "Give us what this other class has, but make it deal orange damage instead of purple!"
Don't get me wrong, your point holds some merit, even though the specifics are debatable. You're barking up the wrong tree, however. And please don't put words in my mouth.
"And please don't put words in my mouth"
Ooh, someones feelin spicy....
Don't post what you don't want quoted. I don't care what you want. My goal is balance. Obviously we have different goals.
Bound armaments got an upgrade similar to grim focus? Cool. No bonuses loss when fired.
But grim focus suggested QoL upgrade to proc from other skills? No way. Lol.
And victim complex? Bruh, calm your inner nerd. Character assassination gets you know where with me. I'm fine discussing abilities, but the moment you make it about the individual it's over.
If this particular discussion wasn't your tree, cool. Simply avoid joining next time.
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Cerotonin✭✭✭Incapacitating Strike’s silence doesn’t make any sense. Give it the actual STUN. Silence doesn’t do anything (or much of anything) against opponents that tend to Stamina-based attacks and abilities. On top of that,4