What is your DPS parses?

DUTCH_REAPER · September 2019

33k MNB PVE build. Guess I’ll just go uninstall the game with all these crazy parses y’all got lol

magictucktuck · September 2019

Shantu wrote: »

Where I was doing 51K self-buffed on a 3 mil, I'm now doing about 35k. Had no problems sustaining my MagSorc before this patch. Now I burn through all magicka in about 20 seconds. After 3 years or working on rotations and improving my DPS, this is just beyond sad and disappointing. I truly hope this mess doesn't go live...

Same boat with stamcro, 50k 6 mil could get up to 55k with good crits. And on pts I parse around 33k lol

but thats beforeI changing my build around obviously i could probably push it back up once I find a new direct damage build/rotation

ThePainGuy · September 2019

I would love to hear more comparisons between update 22 and update 24 parses. I understand many builds took a hit when comparing update 23 and update 24, but Gilliam on stream mentioned that he did not want DPS parses being sole measure in assessing skills/builds, etc... I think update 23 was a big outlier with such a drastic increase in single target dots which skews the data since many parses are done on single target dummies. In addition with a reduction in aoe dots, many builds dropped aoe completely and slotted many single target dots with single target spammables. This deviated from what was done before, where we had mixture of aoe abilities/dots with some single target burst abilities. With the new update 24 patch notes, I wonder if we are seeing numbers similar to update 22 or slightly more than update 22.

Sorry for long text.

WrathOfInnos · September 2019

ThePainGuy wrote: »

I would love to hear more comparisons between update 22 and update 24 parses. I understand many builds took a hit when comparing update 23 and update 24, but Gilliam on stream mentioned that he did not want DPS parses being sole measure in assessing skills/builds, etc... I think update 23 was a big outlier with such a drastic increase in single target dots which skews the data since many parses are done on single target dummies. In addition with a reduction in aoe dots, many builds dropped aoe completely and slotted many single target dots with single target spammables. This deviated from what was done before, where we had mixture of aoe abilities/dots with some single target burst abilities. With the new update 24 patch notes, I wonder if we are seeing numbers similar to update 22 or slightly more than update 22.

Sorry for long text.

@ThePainGuy I don’t believe there was much difference in DPS between U22 and U23. Mag Sorc actually decreased due to the U23 nerfs to pets and AoE’s. Most Stamina builds seemed to approximately break even, with Caltrops, Hail, and Spiders nerfs balanced by Soul Trap, Poison Injection, and Rending Slashes buffs. Some trials parses increased slightly due to the added buff sets Z’en’s and Martial Knowledge. Mag Warden and MagDK seemed to improve with U23, but neither is meta for DPS. I’d gladly take the state of skills from U22 over anything we’ve seen in U23 or U24.

xBananaFish · September 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

xBananaFish wrote: »

You got that (impressive) numbers on a 3m, doubt they can be kept on 6m, not even talking about 21m, due sustain. From your log (wild guess you were using pots, if not forget this) you were losing 400 magicka per second. This means that in less than 2 minutes, you would be empty.

Sustain is another big issue, specially on some classes already bad suited for sustain, like Sorc.

yes.... the sustain will be a very big problem i think....
we only can testing atm

Tannus15 · September 2019

This is the best I've managed on PTS, and I can only pull it of with parse food, otherwise it's unsustainable.

Breton mag sorc, false god, vampire.
I cut all dots from my build, changed my CP to focus on direct damage skills, 0.92 la/s

Skills I actively used are ele weapon, frags, fury, unstable wall, prey and trap.

Running more than 1 ground dot or the scamp isn't sustainable.

Kolzki · September 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

On stamsorc and stamnecro, where I was easily hitting 100k+ on the raid dummy for the past couple of patches, I'm down around 75-80k now.

Looks to me like a 20-25% DPS loss.

And I'm getting my best results with rotations that are basically just WoE/Endless Hail, spam spammable. No need for Poison Injection, Rending Slashes, or Soul Trap.

Since we don't need IA anymore, might as well drop Barbed Trap too and just run Twilight Remedy. More time for spamming that spammable.

Garbage patch.

I'm seeing the same. The constellations addon's cp suggestion does a good job of summarising what I've seen with dots:

And that was before dropping all dots except hail and trap because enchants and minor force.

A very quick test suggests that I do more damage by dropping poison injection, slashes and soul trap. Just spam a spammable with a quick swap to back bar to refresh hail every 10 seconds to keep the enchant procs up.

Tannus15 · September 2019

@Kolzki That's exactly what I'm seeing on mag sorc.

The dots are so bad they are worthless. It's much easier to just stack any skills which give passive buffs like inner light / bound aegis and cut everything from your rotation except a ground dot for the backbar enchant and a spammable on the front bar.

SidraWillowsky · September 2019

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

33k MNB PVE build. Guess I’ll just go uninstall the game with all these crazy parses y’all got lol

If it helps, I cannot get the hang of magblade- it's like playing perpetual hardmode; the rotation is the single most unforgiving and difficult one in the game. Having tested nearly every class in the game (I think that the only ones I haven't tried are magsorc and magcro) I can confidently say that magblade is by FAR the most difficult class to play for me.

This isn't to say I haven't tried- I have. A LOT. I've put hours and hours of time in front of a target skeleton trying to get the hang of the damn class. The skills just don't flow well together, things don't fire off when they should sometimes, it's a weave-y, clunky nightmare and any mistakes will absolutely tank your DPS.

Magdens have a similarly complicated rotation (you cast Shalks after every two skills, so there's a lot of bar swapping)but it just feels so much more natural than the Magblade flail. I'm pretty good with LA weaving (across dungeons/trials/parses I'm hitting close to as many LAs as I am skill casts) so at this point I don't think it's entirely my lack of skill. The class is just plain hard to play.

(if that makes you feel any better....)

victory.immortalb16_ESO · September 2019

urgh. the DPS drop for a pve magsorc plus the increase in costs makes this a very unfun PTS so far.

The problem is they are nerfing across the board when what they need to do is nerf the top end players- possibly by changing cast times or introducing delays so their overall dps drops.

The issue with this PTS is it is nerfing everyone, so barely viable pve players will find their dps drops below the minimum needed, or just feels totally meh, or you run out of juice so fast it's not funny.

Tannus15 · September 2019

@victory.immortalb16_ESO there is no nerf you can do to the "top end" that won't affect the "middle tier" more. The people at the top have 100% uptime on dots, their skills are cast quicker, their bar swaps are crisp and immediate. There is no wasted time. The only way to nerf them is to directly reduce the amount of damage done by their skills, which will also have huge negative affects to the lesser skilled players as their dps drops below the minimum thresholds required to complete content.

This is the dps from my prog guilds last vAS +Felms clear.

All the 20k to 25k people? Yeah, they'll drop solidly under 20k. With the nerfs to both aoe dots, single target dots AND sustain we're going to struggle to kill Felms before he enrages. Which means deaths, which means MORE dps loss.

This update will set us back months. More than likely some people simply won't be able to get their dps up to where it needs to be and that will be that.

SirDopey · September 2019

sitting a 20k dps loss for me at the moment for stamdk, will post screenshots when I get home. 44k on 6mil target down to 24k on 3mil

ThePainGuy · September 2019

Thanks for the response @WrathOfInnos. I was just curious. I agree update 22 was a good middle ground on all fronts. It seems that current parses on PTS are even less than update 22. That will be hard adjustment for DPS characters in endgame content. Gilliam and Zos mentioned that update 23 made single target dots 2.5x single target spammables and then they reduced it down to 1.25x with this weeks patch notes. They also mentioned that aoe dots were brought in line with there single target counterparts. Does that mean both single target DOTs and AOE dots are 1.25x spammables? Should Zos consider increasing them to 1.5x spammables over 10 seconds (so we get some DPS back while still being mindful of the effect on PVP?)

WrathOfInnos · September 2019

"ThePainGuy wrote: »

Thanks for the response @WrathOfInnos. I was just curious. I agree update 22 was a good middle ground on all fronts. It seems that current parses on PTS are even less than update 22. That will be hard adjustment for DPS characters in endgame content. Gilliam and Zos mentioned that update 23 made single target dots 2.5x single target spammables and then they reduced it down to 1.25x with this weeks patch notes. They also mentioned that aoe dots were brought in line with there single target counterparts. Does that mean both single target DOTs and AOE dots are 1.25x spammables? Should Zos consider increasing them to 1.5x spammables over 10 seconds (so we get some DPS back while still being mindful of the effect on PVP?)

Yes, I think that something in the range of 1.5-2.0 times the damage of a spammable is more appropriate for a 10s DoT (single target or AoE). PTS testing is showing that slotting and casting them at 1.25 times the damage is a DPS loss over just using spammables.

However, shifting the relative balance of DoTs compared to spammables wouldn’t entirely fix the issues with this update. The absolute DPS level is the biggest complaint with this patch, basically setting everyone back 1-2 years of progress.

Tannus15 · September 2019

@ThePainGuy The problem was there are too many dots.

If the dots are stronger than a spammable then the right thing to do is stack as many dots as you can and then use the spammable for whatever is left over.

If the dots are too weak then the correct thing to do is cut them out entirely, making the rotation easier, and buff a spammable as much as you can.

What we had prior to the last update for mag builds was people running 2 ground dots (wall & class skill) with whatever class dots are applicable (usually 1 or 2 skills) and then a spammable.

Then they made 3 unused skills from generic skill lines into decent dots. Now you can run 2 ground dots, 3 single target dots, and 1 or 2 class dots. That's a full rotation, no room for a spammable, no need for 1.

They cannot "fix" this by buffing and nerfing all dots / spammables.
This problem is not caused by the damage values, it's caused by limited skill slots and the number of available skills.

If they rebuff dots we will IMMEDIATELY swap back to the dot meta because it's the best way to play.

If they want to fix this problem they need to change soul trap to be a utility skill, not a dot. Give soul trap minor force.
They need to make entropy a utility skill, not a dot. Make entropy be health or sustain via morphs and do a small amount of damage.

Rebuff all other single target dots to their previous values.
Bring AOE dots up to the same dps as single target dots, reduce the extra cost increase to a sustainable level. i actually like the idea of the dots doing the same dps, just with cost differences.

ThePainGuy · September 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, I think that something in the range of 1.5-2.0 times the damage of a spammable is more appropriate for a 10s DoT (single target or AoE). PTS testing is showing that slotting and casting them at 1.25 times the damage is a DPS loss over just using spammables.

However, shifting the relative balance of DoTs compared to spammables wouldn’t entirely fix the issues with this update. The absolute DPS level is the biggest complaint with this patch, basically setting everyone back 1-2 years of progress.

Thanks for the insight on the topic. I hear you and I agree 1.5-2.0x spammable is reasonable especially since aoe dots have had there costs increased by a lot across the board. The cost to benefit ratio is not good for aoe dots. But as you said dots and spammable balance wont entirely address the problem at hand.

ThePainGuy · September 2019

@Tannus15

You make good points. I only addressed dots vs spammable value balance because it seems that is the route Zos is going about balancing these damage abilities. Now I agree that this may not be the best way to go about it. We don't want DOTs especially those of non-class skill lines to predominate, it takes away from class flavor as everyone will choose these DOTs. But on the other hand, its a hard pill to swallow not giving aoe dots a slight increase when they are costing 4k magicka. Damage nerf is one problem, but sustain is becoming another problem with the dps parses due to these increased costs. Quite a complex problem we have run into in update 24.

SenpaiNFT · September 2019

Pulling about 74k on Magplar with a standard DoT rotation on PTS. Replaced reach with purifying light and centered the rotation around it.

Nomadic_Mind · September 2019

My MagSorc (CP 440) non-pet build went from 29k DPS on live and almost vet trials ready to 18kDPS and struggling with sustain on PTS. so I would say @kylewwefan it is hitting players like me at the lower end as well.

I recognize that this does not include me changing every skill but it's a bit ridiculous and puts me from ready to progress in the game to being back at the starting line. My skills now do (on average for my rotation) about 33% less damage and also cost 21% more resources.

There are some big issues in this patch I would like to see change. Nerf hammer a bit too hard.

satanio · September 2019

stamNecro 2H/bow
Rele&Lokke&vMA bow
From 96k to 78k (more is possible)
Static 12 skill rotation, changes to full executioner spam at 25%.

Olupajmibanan · September 2019

Winstonshead wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Inferno/Inferno Petsorc with both Scamp and Twilight.

3M skeleton (no external buffs, self ele drain): 57k on live, 49k on PTS

Target Iron Attronach: 92k on live, 79k on PTS

This is all after I made adjustments to my build to make up for the nerfs.

What sets do you use?

I had to invest a lot more in sustain including race change to Breton, Clockwork Citrus Fillet and Absorb Magicka glyph on infused weapon.

On 3M: 2x Maw of the Infernal, 5x Necropotence body, Perfected False God jewelry + inferno staff, Maelstrom Inferno staff

On Target Attronach I switch Necro for Mother's Sorrow and False God for Siroria. I tried my dps on PTS with False God instead of Siroria as well, it is somewehere around 75k.

Austinseph1 · September 2019

Resource hemorage seems to be a problem if you have any aoe skills, just a class aoe and WoE alone cost you 10k. I’ll take the damage drops if they could at least lowers the insane costs..

Elwendryll · September 2019

Stamsorc, I can currently pull of 65k dps, I need to work to get 70-75k results.
I didn't have enough time to figure out something that works. (Asylum + Black rose Bow Bow was fun)

Schattenfluegel · September 2019

Stamsorc...

current on live ~82k with Raidsetup (Lokke/rele) with MSA Weapons an Mastersbow
PTS ~59k with AY/Relequen + Non MSA Weapons, MSA Bow, Stormfist - still testing.

Dogzey · September 2019

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Pulling about 74k on Magplar with a standard DoT rotation on PTS. Replaced reach with purifying light and centered the rotation around it.

What were you hitting on live?

HowlKimchi · September 2019

The PTS results are nice! Overall less power creep! I know it's gonna feel bad that they introduced difficulty by making us weaker like... "We were able to do this before, now we cant

" But imo it's better like this in the long run. Having to be conscious of fight mechanics and positioning is so much better than wrecking opponents with boring rotations.

IMO PVE could be funner if more focus was put on boss mechanics over DPS checks

imwargasmo · September 2019

HaruKamui wrote: »

The PTS results are nice! Overall less power creep! I know it's gonna feel bad that they introduced difficulty by making us weaker like... "We were able to do this before, now we cant " But imo it's better like this in the long run. Having to be conscious of fight mechanics and positioning is so much better than wrecking opponents with boring rotations.

IMO PVE could be funner if more focus was put on boss mechanics over DPS checks

A lot of the content has multiple dps checks in it and or time limits that require high dps to meet. A better of approach would be better designed mechanics. The gap in skill between the elite players and average players mean nerfing elite players has a significant impact on average players because that gap will remain the same due to how dps works.

Wayshuba · September 2019

Not a single bit of content will be adjusted based on these changes. ZoS makes them in a vacuum.

Olupajmibanan · September 2019

Content has to be adjusted! Nahviintas on hard mode will be absolute nightmare for non-Hodor groups.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493755/eternal-servant-in-vss-hm-post-patch-5-2-0#latest

Drako_Ei · September 2019

They need to nerf the time limit for god slayer....