"Removing from Area" timer will be adjusted to 2 minutes

Dragonnord · September 2019

From PTS patch notes:

• Adjusted the "Removing from Area" timer when leaving an instance group. The timer is now 2 minutes when leaving a completed instance to allow for more time for quest turn ins and such".

So more than enough time now to finish and complete dungeon quests if everyone in the group leaves.

Thanks for listening ZOS.

VDoom1 · September 2019

This is indeed an awesome change!

It has been an issue for years really. If everyone left the second the dungeon was finished and it was one of those quests which took a while to turn in, well to bad you would get ported out after a matter of seconds, well not anymore!

Very glad that you can now have plenty of time to finish a quest even if everyone leaves. And actually pay attention to the dialogue not just click through it as fast as possible to turn it in.

Shawn_PT · September 2019

This is great news. However, what will happen to the 'Jump failed, instance full' issue now when we replace a party member?

El_Borracho · September 2019

Good, this will help in places like Selene's and BC2 where there is that elongated end scene

oddbasket · September 2019

This is bad, they need to an option to press E to skip the timer and leave immediately for those dungeons that do not have an exit at the final boss.

I've always thought they could have added the NPC outside the dungeon for you to find if you've completed the quest and have't turned it in, just like the public dungeons.

richo262 · September 2019

oddbasket wrote: »

This is bad, they need to an option to press E to skip the timer and leave immediately for those dungeons that do not have an exit at the final boss.

I've always thought they could have added the NPC outside the dungeon for you to find if you've completed the quest and have't turned it in, just like the public dungeons.

There is, use the door. It is usually faster than waiting for the old timer anyway.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · September 2019

Shawn_PT wrote: »

This is great news. However, what will happen to the 'Jump failed, instance full' issue now when we replace a party member?

That is my question as well. Hopefully the 2 minute timer is only after the dungeon is complete.

VaranisArano · September 2019

Good change that means players are less dependent on their group members to stick around.

redspecter23 · September 2019

Shawn_PT wrote: »

This is great news. However, what will happen to the 'Jump failed, instance full' issue now when we replace a party member?

They said they reduced the timer to 10 seconds in a situation where the dungeon is not complete. So when someone leaves or is booted prior to completion, you have 5 seconds less, making it faster to replace them in theory. You'll only get the 2 minutes upon completion.

It is a good change, but it does come with some downsides. I would typically use the disband group option to reset an instance to hop back in. Will we still be able to do that? Or will the instance still be active for up to 2 minutes even if everyone leaves? Basically, if I want to run an instance over and over, do I now have to wait 2 minutes between runs? Sure, you can just queue to restart it, but not so easy when running with less than 4 people.

Shawn_PT · September 2019

richo262 wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

This is bad, they need to an option to press E to skip the timer and leave immediately for those dungeons that do not have an exit at the final boss.

I've always thought they could have added the NPC outside the dungeon for you to find if you've completed the quest and have't turned it in, just like the public dungeons.

There is, use the door. It is usually faster than waiting for the old timer anyway.

Except for those dungeons where there is neither a portal or a door to leave. Off the top of my head I can think of Bloodroot forge. Plenty doors but surprise, they're all fake. Only way to leave is to port out.

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

Dragonnord wrote: »

From PTS patch notes:

• Adjusted the "Removing from Area" timer when leaving an instance group. The timer is now 2 minutes when leaving a completed instance to allow for more time for quest turn ins and such".

Turning in the quest takes seconds.
The real issues is experiencing the ENTIRE quest. Which properly requires a solo story mode because the rest of the team just rushes through. @ZOS_GinaBruno
Two minutes won't be enough to catch up all the quest bits even if the other players rushing through didn't trigger and expire them already causing you to completely miss out.

It's a band-aid that doesn't even address the real issue.

What it WILL probably do is give toxic people you kick from a trial group extra time to troll you in /say . Chances are, that kick-remove uses the same code block.

max_only · September 2019

Turning in the quest doesn’t take seconds on all dungeons. Sometimes npcs want to have a whole family meeting before they will talk to you.

Hopefully this will be enough, although I can already imagine that “bag rifling” will take up most of that time because they couldn’t loot the boss or accept the quest prize until they agonize over what things to throw away.

Same solution applies. Say you would like someone to stay. I always stay grouped, and go get a drink or something irl.

El_Borracho · September 2019

oddbasket wrote: »

This is bad, they need to an option to press E to skip the timer and leave immediately for those dungeons that do not have an exit at the final boss.

I've always thought they could have added the NPC outside the dungeon for you to find if you've completed the quest and have't turned it in, just like the public dungeons.

No, you can leave at any time. The 2 minutes is for the last guy left. Its not going to take 2 minutes to leave a group/dungeon.

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

max_only wrote: »

Turning in the quest doesn’t take seconds on all dungeons. Sometimes npcs want to have a whole family meeting before they will talk to you.

You forget the scripted scenes and other talks BEFORE the final quest turn-in. All these will still be skipped over by impatient teammates.
Giving someone a bit more time at the VERY END doesn't help that much. You still missed most of the story.
This tweak doesn't address the real issue -- that not everyone wants to give their time to other people.

Hallothiel · September 2019

If you want to do the quest you have dome options.

Talk to the group. Let them know you want to do the quest. Never know until you ask.

Join a guild & go with guildmates.

Become fab at the game & solo the dungeon.

But this is an MMO so don’t expect a solo version any time soon!

(Just love how Zos do something lots have asked for, but its not enough for some. 😆)

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

Hallothiel wrote: »

If you want to do the quest you have dome options. <BLAH BLAH BLAH deleted>

Spoken like someone who hasn't actually tried their solutions and found they mostly don't work, if ever. Or are outright unrealistic. No shortage of other threads detailing the various issues.

ZarkingFrued · September 2019

Dragonnord wrote: »

From PTS patch notes:

• Adjusted the "Removing from Area" timer when leaving an instance group. The timer is now 2 minutes when leaving a completed instance to allow for more time for quest turn ins and such".

So more than enough time now to finish and complete dungeon quests if everyone in the group leaves.

Thanks for listening ZOS.

A diamond in the rough

Hallothiel · September 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

If you want to do the quest you have dome options. <BLAH BLAH BLAH deleted>

Spoken like someone who hasn't actually tried their solutions and found they mostly don't work, if ever. Or are outright unrealistic. No shortage of other threads detailing the various issues.

Ffs. Was trying to help but if you just want to complain - meh.

And have tried these options. Have just asked pugs & most have been understanding. Or run with my guildmates. Not difficult.

No need for rudeness.

TheImperfect · September 2019

I think this is an enormous improvement but would prefer to leave when I chose whether it be 30 seconds or 20 minutes. It's still much better than it was previously.

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

Hallothiel wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

If you want to do the quest you have dome options. <BLAH BLAH BLAH deleted>

Spoken like someone who hasn't actually tried their solutions and found they mostly don't work, if ever. Or are outright unrealistic. No shortage of other threads detailing the various issues.

Ffs. Was trying to help but if you just want to complain - meh.

And have tried these options. Have just asked pugs & most have been understanding. Or run with my guildmates. Not difficult.

No need for rudeness.

Fine. I apologize.
I'm just really tired of people with pat answers. Maybe it sometimes worked for you but for other people it almost never works.
And I've even joined a guild that specifically stated in their description that they did these runs.

And honestly some of what you said is really glib. Like basically "git gud do it solo". Which is completely unfeasible for a lot of dungeons because of mechanics. Even for those that are solo-able, I'm willing to bet that few people can actually do it, if they even wanted to spend that much time doing it.
New players shouldn't have to wait until they are overpowered enough to solo a dungeon just to see the story which is a part of the dungeon.
Solo is a ridiculous solution but sadly actually the best one because the only person you can count on to do a story run properly is yourself.

Which is why solo story mode is the best solution.
SWTOR understands this and going forward has story mode for their flashpoints.
FFXIV understands this and their dungeon storytelling does NOT involve people standing around talking to NPCs -- in a game were group content is mandatory for quest progression, which in turn is mandatory for area unlocks.
ZOS doesn't get it.

AlnilamE · September 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

If you want to do the quest you have dome options. <BLAH BLAH BLAH deleted>

Spoken like someone who hasn't actually tried their solutions and found they mostly don't work, if ever. Or are outright unrealistic. No shortage of other threads detailing the various issues.

Ffs. Was trying to help but if you just want to complain - meh.

And have tried these options. Have just asked pugs & most have been understanding. Or run with my guildmates. Not difficult.

No need for rudeness.

Fine. I apologize.
I'm just really tired of people with pat answers. Maybe it sometimes worked for you but for other people it almost never works.
And I've even joined a guild that specifically stated in their description that they did these runs.

And honestly some of what you said is really glib. Like basically "git gud do it solo". Which is completely unfeasible for a lot of dungeons because of mechanics. Even for those that are solo-able, I'm willing to bet that few people can actually do it, if they even wanted to spend that much time doing it.
New players shouldn't have to wait until they are overpowered enough to solo a dungeon just to see the story which is a part of the dungeon.
Solo is a ridiculous solution but sadly actually the best one because the only person you can count on to do a story run properly is yourself.

Which is why solo story mode is the best solution.
SWTOR understands this and going forward has story mode for their flashpoints.
FFXIV understands this and their dungeon storytelling does NOT involve people standing around talking to NPCs -- in a game were group content is mandatory for quest progression, which in turn is mandatory for area unlocks.
ZOS doesn't get it.

Solo story mode is unlikely to happen, though.

I'm personally not interested in soloing (or duoing) dungeons, because I enjoy running with other people, but I'm sure people can do them solo if they put their mind to it.

I find it funny that you say soloing a dungeon is "spending too much time", since what you want to do it spend time in the dungeon to experience the story. The fights are part of the story.

ZOS did move away from talking to NPCs in the middle of the dungeon and you can now just talk to them at the beginning and at the end, and they just go through their dialogue in the middle of the dungeon. If you are afraid of missing something, turn on NPC text in your chat. And you can go into the dungeon at any time to enjoy the intro text to the quest so that you know what's going on before you actually go in to complete the dungeon.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Why not 10 minutes? What scarce resource is overstressed by a long stay?

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

I find it funny that you say soloing a dungeon is "spending too much time", since what you want to do it spend time in the dungeon to experience the story. The fights are part of the story.

Yes but not the core of the story. That's why they are scaled for 4-man who will hopefully not wipe over and over. Devs actually have a time goal for dungeons -- they've said that before in streams. If you've ever solo-ed a world boss, it's incredibly boring. A single boss fight solo'ed can take longer than all the dialog combined -- including talking to the npcs before and after the quest dialog bit to see if they say anything different.

As for "dialog in the middle" -- doesn't work unless you're solo because the other people just run past that dialog. Possibly even triggering the next dialog and/or actions (which you can't see from chat box) which you will then completely miss and have to completely do over.

Asking people to stay is also really a very selfish move. You are asking for their most precious resource -- time. It's really little wonder that people don't have the patience for it.

Some people even feel that a story run involves reading books in entirety when they come across them -- which is actually valid because why else would the book be placed there except for context? And this is as recent as Wrathstone. That sort of story run is properly done in a story mode solo.

peacenote · September 2019

mrsrobot wrote: »

I think this is an enormous improvement but would prefer to leave when I chose whether it be 30 seconds or 20 minutes. It's still much better than it was previously.

Agreed.

It sounds like a great improvement. Not complaining!

In other threads asking for this, some folks expressed a desire to go back and search for chests, or go back to leisurely take screenshots and explore now that the dungeon has been cleared. My suggestion had been to have a timer, say, every 5 minutes that popped up and asked if you were still there, so you could stay as long as you wanted but at the same time AFK'ers wouldn't keep dungeon instances open for no reason. This might be counterproductive to the "improve performance" initiative, though.

Anyway, my guess is that this is specifically targeted to address the issue where people quit the group very quickly and folks miss out on looting or quest turn-ins. And for that specific issue, it will be a great change. I doubt that this was intended to address the larger concerns about overall pacing in dungeons for people wanting to experience the whole story, so to be fair to ZOS in this case I really don't think they are missing the point. Just fixing the part they can fix more easily, which is a more widely universal problem -- those of us who try to go through the stories, and those of us that don't have BOTH been burned by fast group quitters.

maddiniiLuna · September 2019

Actually this is so sad man. It took how many years? to simply change a value from x to 120...

Hazurko_RaShan · September 2019

Dragonnord wrote: »

From PTS patch notes:

• Adjusted the "Removing from Area" timer when leaving an instance group. The timer is now 2 minutes when leaving a completed instance to allow for more time for quest turn ins and such".

So more than enough time now to finish and complete dungeon quests if everyone in the group leaves.

Thanks for listening ZOS.

I could KISS YOU ZOS!

Hazurko_RaShan · September 2019

El_Borracho wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

This is bad, they need to an option to press E to skip the timer and leave immediately for those dungeons that do not have an exit at the final boss.

I've always thought they could have added the NPC outside the dungeon for you to find if you've completed the quest and have't turned it in, just like the public dungeons.

No, you can leave at any time. The 2 minutes is for the last guy left. Its not going to take 2 minutes to leave a group/dungeon.

i do wonder though... if in banished cells, will two minutes be enough time for them to banish rillis and for me to get the quest perk

Hapexamendios · September 2019

That may be the one thing on the patch notes that makes sense.

luen79rwb17_ESO · September 2019

Like it was hard to talk to people? I mean what I've done with my 12+ characters is just ask the guys in the party to stay after last boss and people have always stayed... 100% of the times. It's stil an ok fix but not a huge deal IMO.

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

peacenote wrote: »

Anyway, my guess is that this is specifically targeted to address the issue where people quit the group very quickly and folks miss out on looting or quest turn-ins.

If this is the only thing they wanted to address, then they could have just disabled auto-removal of the last person.
What I SUSPECT is that the timer is also the same one for removing someone you kick from your team for whatever reasons (e.g., they were a toxic arse). Which would be why they kept a time on it.

So we'll see if that toxic ass your trial team is trying to eject now gets a full 2 minutes to try to screw up your raid or continue to call you names in /say

OTOH if they didn't make a voluntary group-leave the same as a kick, then that same toxic arse could voluntarily leave your trial group and hang around to continue to troll you.

If you are the last person in the instance, however, there is really no reason to remove you on any timer at all. It's not like you can troll anyone there. And I don't really think that's so hard for ZOS to detect.

El_Borracho · September 2019

Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

This is bad, they need to an option to press E to skip the timer and leave immediately for those dungeons that do not have an exit at the final boss.

I've always thought they could have added the NPC outside the dungeon for you to find if you've completed the quest and have't turned it in, just like the public dungeons.

No, you can leave at any time. The 2 minutes is for the last guy left. Its not going to take 2 minutes to leave a group/dungeon.

i do wonder though... if in banished cells, will two minutes be enough time for them to banish rillis and for me to get the quest perk

LOL. Why that end scene is so long has always baffled me. I mean, you told me at the beginning I needed to deal with Rillis. You'd think you'd be ready to banish him once I beat him. What the heck were they doing while I was beating the heck out of all of those other bosses?