The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Can we get rid of the tedium of daily crafting writs?
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »OP has made it very clear that they won't even listen to opinions that don't match his own. Regardless of how logical they are, even if you are in the exact same situation as they are, being on console. For some reason, people not agreeing unequivocally with him is unfathomable.
As have you! You provide some great information in some threads, but seem to have an internal flag against asking for more than whatever we are given. Why is that? What is wrong with asking?
What is wrong with asserting that something should be done even if it is never done? Should ZoS not take into account the limitations of consoles in its future plans?
This comment was not about the request itself. It was HOW it was requested. It's how the OP responded to any comment that didn't seem to immediately agree with his own position.VaranisArano wrote: »SeaWoodStage wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I'm asking for the rewards for what other players (PC users) are putting in effort to do. ZOS doesn't consider this gamebreaking, why do you?
Before we go any further, I never said that I do or don't consider anything gamebreaking. For another thing, noob as I am and never having seriously gamed on PC (unless you count Ibix the Viking), I will happily say that I don't consider this to be gamebreaking. This is so not gamebreaking. Everyone plays on a server, right? And every server has an economy.
To put it in the most extreme terms, suppose someone can be bothered to play for ten hours a day, collecting rare mats, so they can sell them on a guild store. Well good for them. And suppose someone isn't interested in crafting at all, but needs awesome gear? Well they'll go buy it.
There's nothing wrong with either of those approaches, they're just different. And whatever platform/server you're on, the economy's reasonably stable, and it's self-contained. So why worry if it's easier for PCers to complete writs?
Because presumably the OP would like their own writs to be as easy as they are on PC...
I mean, we see plenty of requests like this from Console users. Multicraft was a big one that ZOS actually implemented as a base game improvement. Better guild management tools are getting the most focus right now. DPS Meters or ESO Logs is another common request.
Ultimately, ZOS will do it, or they won't, or they'll take it under advisement and roll it out years later. There's no harm in asking.
No harm in asking... however the tone of how it was asked... being combative, dismissive, is not going to bode well.
I quote myself, for the reasoning of that statement. Again I was referring to HOW the request was made and handled, not WHAT was being requested. There is an enormous difference between those.
I also take some umbrage at the insistence about "need". What platform you choose to play the game on is up to you. But doing some research about "add-ons" before you make that choice is prudent. Especially with ESO where the PC version was out first, so it was well known what would be available in the form of add-ons. It's akin to buying a car, then realizing after the fact it doesn't have all the features you want, and demanding that the dealer upgrade it for you, for free. Most MMOs don't even bother with console versions, because of the limitations the hardware and systems have. It's very well possible that adding in some of those features would slow down the game on consoles to the point that it becomes unplayable. However, on a PC version, because there can be a very wide range of PCs out there, the individual gamer can decide what his or her system can handle and can "adjust" the game accordingly.
It is well known that add-ons reduce performance, run too many of them and you will see a reduction in frame rate and performance. ZoS has to make sure the game is playable for all players.
Imagine if you asked if driving could be made easier and someone responded with "Dont drive then". It completely negates the point of the post. If you hate how I responded to that, then I'm sorry. Telling me "No" without even expanding on why is the definition of unhelpful and lazy, and I wasn't going to argue with someone who could not put the effort into their post.
You clearly didn't read my initial response... Please do so. I explained my reasoning. Hence the first quote, as to you having already "made up your mind" and disregarding anything else that was said.
EDIT: To borrow your car analogy. You're asking for the luxury heated leather seats to be included for free when your buy your $20k KIA, which are normally reserved for the luxury models. The Kia drives you everywhere you want to go (just as the game still plays), but it's just not as comfortable.Edited by tmbrinks on September 15, 2019 10:39PMTenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger61,215 achievement points1 -
sulima✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Crafting very much needs a re-work from our game designers
1. Make daily writs account bound, increase surveys, gold mats, writs accordingly. One a day that's all everyone really needs!
2. No more hording gold mats, writs and surveys. You either sell what you have within x amount of time or it becomes account bound! This will provide game makers a workable baseline to adjust supply and demand with. Casual players would finally see enjoyable results when refining materials.
3. Deconstruction... this one particularly bugs me, I can understand loosing a gold temper when I deconstruct a sword, but loosing all eighth with a possibility of recuperating 1? Resources are a finite thing, last I checked anyways, smarten up DEVS! Promote the 3Rs, make a skill tree if you have to, promote this philosophy!
What? That's quite the derail. You sure you don't want to move your idea to its own thread? This really deserves its own thread, since your ideas arent much in line with the OP's except in the general sense that they are both about crafting improvements.
I don't think it is, writs should be 1 a day across your account.
Many times I see posters that pride themselves making over 100K a day with 16 characters by doing daily writs. OP is voicing his frustration that this is a repetitive and tedium thing to do, but has to do them to keep up...
Frankly I class it close to a game exploit. Having writs account bound to one a day would allow casual player to see larger rewards for doing them.
No one playing casually would even consider doing such a task 16 times. It also inflates auction prices and leaves the gold mat market controlled by the few.
I still hold by my three points as something that would greatly tilt the balance towards casual players base.
unless you are going to completely re-do the economy around your proposal, you can be certain that doing what you propose would vastly increase in the cost of gold improvement materials, making it even more difficult for "causal" players to be able to improve their gear.
The fact that some players can do writs on all their characters per day is the only reason material prices are as low as they are, as this increases the supply available to the economy.
EDIT: I noticed you did talk about increasing the drop rates for those activities to "compensate" for the loss. I still have to disagree that this is anywhere near "exploiting". Some people enjoy doing writs to earn gold in the game. Some people enjoy running quests. Some people enjoy grinding TelVar or AP. There are a multitude of ways to make gold in this game.
Why is this one a problem? Why is there such a "race to the lowest common denominator"? I get that the game should be playable for the most casual of players (and I truly believe it is... if you're truly casual, there are many things you don't even need to bother with, like gold gear for example), but it also has to have some incentive for those who want to (and who can) put in more time. Your proposal eliminates that, which goes against a core tenant of an MMORPG.
ESO does a better job at catering to the casual/RP crowd than almost every other MMORPG out there already. But there still needs to be a few things for the "hardcore" player to be able to differentiate themselves from that crowd, otherwise, there'd be no reason for them to play.
Hello tmbrinks,
Interesting that "causal" players (thx btw), should thank the hardcore grinders out there that keep prices low by repeating the same task 16 times a day with the use of an addon. Not all platforms have access to addons, limiting the daily rewards writs to one a day/ per account would level the playing field and make costs equal across platforms
Do you think game developers ever thought that gamers would actually repeat the same task on multiple characters and call it a joyful activity?
It is exploiting a design flaw plain and simple, and it does skew the economy and resources to the few.
Interesting that you think casual players should not worry golding their gear, how dare we!
I define "harcore" players by the likes of the ones that get flawless conqueror, completes raids hardmode, and/or climb the pvp ladders; that's hardcore and I tip my hat to them! I don't think repeating the same tedious task 16 times a day defines you as hardcore... perhaps it differentiates you as a little eccentric? BTW, I think you meant core"tenet" of MMORPG.
Would be nice to see some progression changes to crafting and some new stuff to get excited about, rather than what it's being used for today.
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »OP has made it very clear that they won't even listen to opinions that don't match his own. Regardless of how logical they are, even if you are in the exact same situation as they are, being on console. For some reason, people not agreeing unequivocally with him is unfathomable.
As have you! You provide some great information in some threads, but seem to have an internal flag against asking for more than whatever we are given. Why is that? What is wrong with asking?
What is wrong with asserting that something should be done even if it is never done? Should ZoS not take into account the limitations of consoles in its future plans?
This comment was not about the request itself. It was HOW it was requested. It's how the OP responded to any comment that didn't seem to immediately agree with his own position.VaranisArano wrote: »SeaWoodStage wrote: »PizzaCat82 wrote: »I'm asking for the rewards for what other players (PC users) are putting in effort to do. ZOS doesn't consider this gamebreaking, why do you?
Before we go any further, I never said that I do or don't consider anything gamebreaking. For another thing, noob as I am and never having seriously gamed on PC (unless you count Ibix the Viking), I will happily say that I don't consider this to be gamebreaking. This is so not gamebreaking. Everyone plays on a server, right? And every server has an economy.
To put it in the most extreme terms, suppose someone can be bothered to play for ten hours a day, collecting rare mats, so they can sell them on a guild store. Well good for them. And suppose someone isn't interested in crafting at all, but needs awesome gear? Well they'll go buy it.
There's nothing wrong with either of those approaches, they're just different. And whatever platform/server you're on, the economy's reasonably stable, and it's self-contained. So why worry if it's easier for PCers to complete writs?
Because presumably the OP would like their own writs to be as easy as they are on PC...
I mean, we see plenty of requests like this from Console users. Multicraft was a big one that ZOS actually implemented as a base game improvement. Better guild management tools are getting the most focus right now. DPS Meters or ESO Logs is another common request.
Ultimately, ZOS will do it, or they won't, or they'll take it under advisement and roll it out years later. There's no harm in asking.
No harm in asking... however the tone of how it was asked... being combative, dismissive, is not going to bode well.
I quote myself, for the reasoning of that statement. Again I was referring to HOW the request was made and handled, not WHAT was being requested. There is an enormous difference between those.
I also take some umbrage at the insistence about "need". What platform you choose to play the game on is up to you. But doing some research about "add-ons" before you make that choice is prudent. Especially with ESO where the PC version was out first, so it was well known what would be available in the form of add-ons. It's akin to buying a car, then realizing after the fact it doesn't have all the features you want, and demanding that the dealer upgrade it for you, for free. Most MMOs don't even bother with console versions, because of the limitations the hardware and systems have. It's very well possible that adding in some of those features would slow down the game on consoles to the point that it becomes unplayable. However, on a PC version, because there can be a very wide range of PCs out there, the individual gamer can decide what his or her system can handle and can "adjust" the game accordingly.
It is well known that add-ons reduce performance, run too many of them and you will see a reduction in frame rate and performance. ZoS has to make sure the game is playable for all players.
Imagine if you asked if driving could be made easier and someone responded with "Dont drive then". It completely negates the point of the post. If you hate how I responded to that, then I'm sorry. Telling me "No" without even expanding on why is the definition of unhelpful and lazy, and I wasn't going to argue with someone who could not put the effort into their post.
You clearly didn't read my initial response... Please do so. I explained my reasoning. Hence the first quote, as to you having already "made up your mind" and disregarding anything else that was said.
EDIT: To borrow your car analogy. You're asking for the luxury heated leather seats to be included for free when your buy your $20k KIA, which are normally reserved for the luxury models. The Kia drives you everywhere you want to go (just as the game still plays), but it's just not as comfortable.
I'm asking for power steering, which was once only in luxury models, now available in all models, even base ones. I'm not even asking for free, put it in ESO plus or whatever. Lord knows I've spent more on this game than 90% of PC players.0 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What's the problem with Console Players getting the same options?
In theory, nothing. But the problem here is the tone. Just because third-party authors have made something possible on PC does not mean that ZOS MUST do the same for consoles. Console players CHOSE to play on console, in the full knowledge that they would not have access to the same customization options as PC players. DEAL WITH IT.
Example : I played (and thoroughly enjoyed) the WItcher 3 on PC. As a player that's not attracted by anything "combat", I used mods, and cheats, and everything else available, to avoid any sort of combat and just enjoy the story. (And don't come up with "story-mode, even that one was too tedious for me).
Does that mean that CD-Project RED should have incorporated a "killall, unkillable" mode into their base game ?
Besides, (and back to ESO), I too have 10 characters that are "writ-ready". I used to do them daily on all 10 of them. Before realizing that it was a PITA and that I did not HAVE TO do them all.
The moment you realize that something you do in a video game is not fun - but you do it anyway, as far as it takes you several hours a day - is the moment when you need to plug off everything and go for a walk.
And finally, I'll add that crafting writs are not "instant" on PC. What takes times and brings boredom is not the crafting itself (even without hte addon); it's the time required for switching characters and watching at those, gorgeous but still damned, loading screens.
We get those screens too, likely even longer, with a regular lockup requiring us to force quit the app to get things running again.
We do live with what we have, but we should not have to do so. Anything that is vital to have an addon for should be high on the list of things to add.
Was the map additions showing lots of status information required? We all lived without it, though I am sure some addons provided similar information. They already showed they can and do add quality of life things. Complaining about those asking for specific things such as this is not appropriate. Does ZoS need you and others telling console players to lump it?
There is no add-on that is vital for the game. I play on the PC and don't use any add-ons the same as many other players. I find after a while it becomes a circle jerk figuring out which one causes problems after ZOS updates the game or the owner updates the add-on. I don't object to people wanting to improve functions in the base game but using add-ons as the basis of the argument is really more of a false equivalency.
I think the bigger issue is console players reluctance to go after their manufacturers for their refusal to allow user written code. Providing interfaces for user provided functions are a standard way for software in general to provide customers a means to modify or improve product functions without a company having to support them. Consoles with the closed ecosystem prevent this and are the real problem. Console owners will have more effect if they band together than the gaming companies who are dependent on the manufacturers for their game's survival.
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Crafting very much needs a re-work from our game designers
1. Make daily writs account bound, increase surveys, gold mats, writs accordingly. One a day that's all everyone really needs!
2. No more hording gold mats, writs and surveys. You either sell what you have within x amount of time or it becomes account bound! This will provide game makers a workable baseline to adjust supply and demand with. Casual players would finally see enjoyable results when refining materials.
3. Deconstruction... this one particularly bugs me, I can understand loosing a gold temper when I deconstruct a sword, but loosing all eighth with a possibility of recuperating 1? Resources are a finite thing, last I checked anyways, smarten up DEVS! Promote the 3Rs, make a skill tree if you have to, promote this philosophy!
What? That's quite the derail. You sure you don't want to move your idea to its own thread? This really deserves its own thread, since your ideas arent much in line with the OP's except in the general sense that they are both about crafting improvements.
I don't think it is, writs should be 1 a day across your account.
Many times I see posters that pride themselves making over 100K a day with 16 characters by doing daily writs. OP is voicing his frustration that this is a repetitive and tedium thing to do, but has to do them to keep up...
Frankly I class it close to a game exploit. Having writs account bound to one a day would allow casual player to see larger rewards for doing them.
No one playing casually would even consider doing such a task 16 times. It also inflates auction prices and leaves the gold mat market controlled by the few.
I still hold by my three points as something that would greatly tilt the balance towards casual players base.
unless you are going to completely re-do the economy around your proposal, you can be certain that doing what you propose would vastly increase in the cost of gold improvement materials, making it even more difficult for "causal" players to be able to improve their gear.
The fact that some players can do writs on all their characters per day is the only reason material prices are as low as they are, as this increases the supply available to the economy.
EDIT: I noticed you did talk about increasing the drop rates for those activities to "compensate" for the loss. I still have to disagree that this is anywhere near "exploiting". Some people enjoy doing writs to earn gold in the game. Some people enjoy running quests. Some people enjoy grinding TelVar or AP. There are a multitude of ways to make gold in this game.
Why is this one a problem? Why is there such a "race to the lowest common denominator"? I get that the game should be playable for the most casual of players (and I truly believe it is... if you're truly casual, there are many things you don't even need to bother with, like gold gear for example), but it also has to have some incentive for those who want to (and who can) put in more time. Your proposal eliminates that, which goes against a core tenant of an MMORPG.
ESO does a better job at catering to the casual/RP crowd than almost every other MMORPG out there already. But there still needs to be a few things for the "hardcore" player to be able to differentiate themselves from that crowd, otherwise, there'd be no reason for them to play.
Hello tmbrinks,
Interesting that "causal" players (thx btw), should thank the hardcore grinders out there that keep prices low by repeating the same task 16 times a day with the use of an addon. Not all platforms have access to addons, limiting the daily rewards writs to one a day/ per account would level the playing field and make costs equal across platforms
The platforms are fully independent from one another. Nobody is gaining an advantageDo you think game developers ever thought that gamers would actually repeat the same task on multiple characters and call it a joyful activity?
considering that means the player is spending more time in game. more time in game = more potential dollars spent. They WANT you to do it on all 16 charactersIt is exploiting a design flaw plain and simple, and it does skew the economy and resources to the few.
see above.Interesting that you think casual players should not worry golding their gear, how dare we!
not saying they shouldn't "dare". Just that there isn't really a need for it for overland content.I define "harcore" players by the likes of the ones that get flawless conqueror, completes raids hardmode, and/or climb the pvp ladders; that's hardcore and I tip my hat to them! I don't think repeating the same tedious task 16 times a day defines you as hardcore... perhaps it differentiates you as a little eccentric? BTW, I think you meant core"tenet" of MMORPG.
I define "hardcore" as anybody who spends significant amounts of time to become better at the game. That includes Flawless conqueror, HM trials, PVP, and leveling all those characters so that they can do writs.Would be nice to see some progression changes to crafting and some new stuff to get excited about, rather than what it's being used for today.
Major changes just happened with Multicraft. Did you see the uproar about that and people being "cheated" out of the experience, and possible loss of materials. ZoS has to be careful to include things that better the game for EVERYBODY, especially on console where they won't have a choice.Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger61,215 achievement points1 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would still argue that any addon that "most" people (at least those serious about an area) say is needed should be a part of the game, especially in an area like crafting.
I can understand some running without addons and I certainly do now (on the PS4), but I wish ZoS would prioritize adding the functionality of such addons to the game proper so console players can benefit from them as well.
I would argue (and did when I played WoW) that such functionality should be in the game if it is that popular.
I would love to have some things to simplify daily writs.PC
PS4/PS50 -
Recent✭✭✭✭✭I like grinding, it makes me feel like I work hard for what I have. I lime feeling that i have earned stuff.0 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've closed this thread as it has derailed into nonconstructive and baiting comments.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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