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Remove Ice Staff Taunt....
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.
Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.
Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.
Not true.
Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.
Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.
The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.
Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine
That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.
In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.
Ice staves are the most common backbar weapon for tanks now, in my experience. Fewer tanks are using lightning and nobody who knows better uses double shield
There’s nothing common about Frost Staves. Legit the only time I ever see them is if I slot one when everyone is waiting outside the door before a raid for lulz. Then swap right back to real weapons.
The *only* truly good use of a Frost Staff in PvE is to put down a Blockade to proc your enchants, while being able to take the Ancient Kowledge passive for blocking. Even a tank shouldn’t be using the Tri-Focus passive because your skills are all Magicka and you want to spend your Stamina blocking.
The concept of using a Destruction Staff for tanking is ridiculous - they should have buffed it to be viable DPS and implemented the 1H/Rune Weapon skill line for “Magicka” tanking.0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.
Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.
Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.
Not true.
Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.
Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.
The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.
Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine
That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.
In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.
Ice staves are the most common backbar weapon for tanks now, in my experience. Fewer tanks are using lightning and nobody who knows better uses double shield
There’s nothing common about Frost Staves. Legit the only time I ever see them is if I slot one when everyone is waiting outside the door before a raid for lulz. Then swap right back to real weapons.
The *only* truly good use of a Frost Staff in PvE is to put down a Blockade to proc your enchants, while being able to take the Ancient Kowledge passive for blocking. Even a tank shouldn’t be using the Tri-Focus passive because your skills are all Magicka and you want to spend your Stamina blocking.
The concept of using a Destruction Staff for tanking is ridiculous - they should have buffed it to be viable DPS and implemented the 1H/Rune Weapon skill line for “Magicka” tanking.
Anecdotal evidence is often flawed, due to everyone having different experiences and therefore different anecdotal evidence. I'd be curious to see what number or portion of players use frost staves now compared to before, statistically. I mean, I hear about it a lot, but other than myself, I see it only rarely, so I'd be interested to see the actual numbers over just hearing what everyone else has seen individually.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.
Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.
Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.
Not true.
Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.
Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.
The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.
Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine
That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.
In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.
Ice staves are the most common backbar weapon for tanks now, in my experience. Fewer tanks are using lightning and nobody who knows better uses double shield
There’s nothing common about Frost Staves. Legit the only time I ever see them is if I slot one when everyone is waiting outside the door before a raid for lulz. Then swap right back to real weapons.
The *only* truly good use of a Frost Staff in PvE is to put down a Blockade to proc your enchants, while being able to take the Ancient Kowledge passive for blocking. Even a tank shouldn’t be using the Tri-Focus passive because your skills are all Magicka and you want to spend your Stamina blocking.
The concept of using a Destruction Staff for tanking is ridiculous - they should have buffed it to be viable DPS and implemented the 1H/Rune Weapon skill line for “Magicka” tanking.
Anecdotal evidence is often flawed, due to everyone having different experiences and therefore different anecdotal evidence. I'd be curious to see what number or portion of players use frost staves now compared to before, statistically. I mean, I hear about it a lot, but other than myself, I see it only rarely, so I'd be interested to see the actual numbers over just hearing what everyone else has seen individually.
We all want the real statistics lol. ZOS never releases that kinda stuff though. The closest we’ve gotten were the statistics they released at the start of the anniversary event (most popular race, most popular alliance, highest bounty, etc).0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.
Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.
Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.
Not true.
Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.
Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.
The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.
Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine
That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.
In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.
Ice staves are the most common backbar weapon for tanks now, in my experience. Fewer tanks are using lightning and nobody who knows better uses double shield
There’s nothing common about Frost Staves. Legit the only time I ever see them is if I slot one when everyone is waiting outside the door before a raid for lulz. Then swap right back to real weapons.
The *only* truly good use of a Frost Staff in PvE is to put down a Blockade to proc your enchants, while being able to take the Ancient Kowledge passive for blocking. Even a tank shouldn’t be using the Tri-Focus passive because your skills are all Magicka and you want to spend your Stamina blocking.
The concept of using a Destruction Staff for tanking is ridiculous - they should have buffed it to be viable DPS and implemented the 1H/Rune Weapon skill line for “Magicka” tanking.
Honestly, I think you're just spouting a biased opinion here rather than fact. I've found frost staff to be extremely useful as a tank. I was one of the few who tried using it before the change (and on a magblade at that), and honestly it never came even close to fire or lightning for damage output, and nothing ZOS does will make it equal to those other staff types without inevitably displacing one of them. Fire and lightning are very common damage types for spellcasters in RPGs, frost is not nearly as common; so which one do you think will garner more complaints if it ends up being outdone?
Nothing beats fire staff for single target. Nothing beats lightning staff for aoe. There's no area in which frost could be buffed, damage-wise, without either supplanting one of those two, or still being less powerful, and if it ends up being even 1% less powerful than the other options, the meta will always favor those other options instead. Snares and non-damage utility simply have no place in a DPS character's build for endgame pve.
The current state of frost staves isnt ideal for tanking, but it is ideal as a tanking support weapon. You gain absolutely nothing from double-barring shields, and up until dragonbones was released lightning staves were used on the backbar for nearly every endgame trials tank build, simply for the crusher uptime from blockade and for the offbalance debuff (which has since been nerfed to the point that a single DPS character can keep it active at 100% uptime without needing the tank or healers to run a lightning staff). Frost still gives you the crusher uptime, but offers another resource to block with, a free ranged taunt, and no loss in block mitigation when on your back bar. With summerset, frost staves will even count as two items towards set bonuses, meaning you literally lose nothing for having one slotted as a tank.
Frost staves are also better in PvP now than they used to be. Not only do they offer more survivability and control (which is more valuable in pvp than raw damage output), but the heavy attack taunt passive combines extremely well with certain set combos, namely knight slayer + tremorscale (and, if you wish to add it, vanguard's challenge). This setup gives huge burst to an otherwise tough character build.
Ultimately, the reason you dont see frost staves is probably because you run with a bunch of meta-chasers that cant fathom using anything except deltia/alcast copypasta builds. Think outside the box for once.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.
Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.
Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.
Not true.
Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.
Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.
The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.
Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine
That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.
In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.
Ice staves are the most common backbar weapon for tanks now, in my experience. Fewer tanks are using lightning and nobody who knows better uses double shield
There’s nothing common about Frost Staves. Legit the only time I ever see them is if I slot one when everyone is waiting outside the door before a raid for lulz. Then swap right back to real weapons.
The *only* truly good use of a Frost Staff in PvE is to put down a Blockade to proc your enchants, while being able to take the Ancient Kowledge passive for blocking. Even a tank shouldn’t be using the Tri-Focus passive because your skills are all Magicka and you want to spend your Stamina blocking.
The concept of using a Destruction Staff for tanking is ridiculous - they should have buffed it to be viable DPS and implemented the 1H/Rune Weapon skill line for “Magicka” tanking.
Honestly, I think you're just spouting a biased opinion here rather than fact. I've found frost staff to be extremely useful as a tank. I was one of the few who tried using it before the change (and on a magblade at that), and honestly it never came even close to fire or lightning for damage output, and nothing ZOS does will make it equal to those other staff types without inevitably displacing one of them. Fire and lightning are very common damage types for spellcasters in RPGs, frost is not nearly as common; so which one do you think will garner more complaints if it ends up being outdone?
Nothing beats fire staff for single target. Nothing beats lightning staff for aoe. There's no area in which frost could be buffed, damage-wise, without either supplanting one of those two, or still being less powerful, and if it ends up being even 1% less powerful than the other options, the meta will always favor those other options instead. Snares and non-damage utility simply have no place in a DPS character's build for endgame pve.
The current state of frost staves isnt ideal for tanking, but it is ideal as a tanking support weapon. You gain absolutely nothing from double-barring shields, and up until dragonbones was released lightning staves were used on the backbar for nearly every endgame trials tank build, simply for the crusher uptime from blockade and for the offbalance debuff (which has since been nerfed to the point that a single DPS character can keep it active at 100% uptime without needing the tank or healers to run a lightning staff). Frost still gives you the crusher uptime, but offers another resource to block with, a free ranged taunt, and no loss in block mitigation when on your back bar. With summerset, frost staves will even count as two items towards set bonuses, meaning you literally lose nothing for having one slotted as a tank.
Frost staves are also better in PvP now than they used to be. Not only do they offer more survivability and control (which is more valuable in pvp than raw damage output), but the heavy attack taunt passive combines extremely well with certain set combos, namely knight slayer + tremorscale (and, if you wish to add it, vanguard's challenge). This setup gives huge burst to an otherwise tough character build.
Ultimately, the reason you dont see frost staves is probably because you run with a bunch of meta-chasers that cant fathom using anything except deltia/alcast copypasta builds. Think outside the box for once.
LOL. You're so salty I disagree with you that now you're going to talk trash. Some people really can't compose themselves very well.
The issue with Ice Staff is that it was not fully converted into a tanking role - it is still far more meant to be used in damage-dealing despite being meant for tanking. Any reasonable player either wants it to become a true DPS weapon or true tanking weapon, meaning a rework to skills. If thats not true I would love to hear how amazing some skills like Impulse, Destructive Touch, Penetrating Magic, Elemental Force, and Destruction Expert have been working on your tank.
Fyi - Flame Staves were never inherently a superior single target option, and Lighting Staves were never inherently a superior AoE damage option. They did grant separate heavy attack bonuses that slightly pushed them in those directions, but it was still fine to run an Ice Staff. You weren't a massive detriment to your group's DPS by doing so.
In **Homestead** ZOS reworked the Ancient Knowledge Destruction Staff passive to grant increased damage vs Single Target (Fire Staff) or AoE Damage (Lightning Staff). Frost Staff was given reduced block cost and damage taken, alongside a heavy attack taunt/magicka block cost with the Tri-Focus passive. To say that it was impossible to make Frost Staff viable for damage dealing is not true at all - it simply took a different direction from DPS and was reinforced by the Warden's Winter's Embrace tanking skill tree.
But nvm me..... I only run "deltia/alcast copy pasta builds" and could never think outside the box
.... yeah.... feel free to lmk when you're comfortable with having a real discussion about this. It's a waste of time to argue with someone so sensitive. Edited by Vaoh on April 22, 2018 6:28AM0 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭They should add an extra passive for frost staff only. It will make everyone happy.0 -
friimynd✭✭✭it is a penalty for using ice staff, not a perk
solution, don't run with 2 ice staffs, switch out when single targeting bosses, ice when adds
or pick your poison, maybe dodgeroll a lot
(i wondered why all the mobs were chasing me as a healer, lol)
[i know... #necrolife]Edited by friimynd on September 16, 2019 2:20AMgg ^&*
Oh, now i 'C', lol ( * & ^ )
Finally realized it is supposed to be about 'friends' online, lol; i thought it was about 'enemies' online, hmm
Well, i can (must) buy the darkwood (?) sry, lol; blackwood expansion to get the companions, right? i'm looking into it right now.
If they gonna put companions in the game, i'm a fool to say no (and be a f2p peon grinder, lol; feel for u, i used to do to) ;#)0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At this point in order to allow the most people to be happy, i think they need to make a new tanking staff. Such as alteration or illusion. And then rework the frost staff's passives and some skills to focus around crit.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale1 -
friimynd✭✭✭wait resto isn't an ice staff, why were all the mobs chasing me? (maybe someone else wasn't tanking properly i suppose)
but it isn't a tanking staff, it is just a staff that causes mobs to dislike you (if they are slow they can't chase the healer)gg ^&*
Oh, now i 'C', lol ( * & ^ )
Finally realized it is supposed to be about 'friends' online, lol; i thought it was about 'enemies' online, hmm
Well, i can (must) buy the darkwood (?) sry, lol; blackwood expansion to get the companions, right? i'm looking into it right now.
If they gonna put companions in the game, i'm a fool to say no (and be a f2p peon grinder, lol; feel for u, i used to do to) ;#)0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭GuyNamedSean wrote: »DanteMR1995 wrote: »We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-
Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?GuyNamedSean wrote: »DanteMR1995 wrote: »We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-
well some people still are hoping for a true frost mage play style that zos killed with warden.
Frost mag is my favorite play style in games. But it is not in eso. There are a few pseudo frost mag builds but they aren’t the sameDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭I don't get why frost has to be for tanking.
Aspects;
Fire - Single Target
Lightning - AoE
Frost - DoT ta da
Wielding Bonuses;
Fire - improves single target skills including single target damage over time but not ground telegraphic skills.
Lightning - improves area of effects including area of effect damage over time but not enemy targeted skills.
Frost - improves single target and area of effect damage over time but not initial impacts of skills.The change I proposed can be looked at as a triangle;
fire excels at instant-STs/ST-DoTs but not AoE-DoTs/instant-AoEs,
lightning excels at instant-AoEs/AoE-DoTs but not instant-STs/ST-DoTs,
frost excels at ST-DoTs/AoE-DoTs but not instant-STs/instant-AoEs.
Each having 2 beneficiary aspects of a skill and 2 ignored values of a skill.
This would open up new playstyles!
Heavy Attack Bonuses;
Fire - deals more direct damage to primary target via heavy attack..
Lightning - deals area of effect damage over time via heavy attack.
Frost - deals persisting damage over time via heavy attack.Heavy attack damage with frost could deal its damage over time rather than instant, allowing the player to tag multiple enemies or even work a periodic heavy attack into their rotation as it would be neither instant and over with (like fire) or channeled (like lightning) which prevents casting other skills.
Secondary Effects;
Fire - applies burning, a damage over time based on your max magic and spell damage on the enemy..
Lightning - applies concussed, a debuff to mitigation that increases everyone's damage on the enemy.
Frost - applies chilled, instant damage based on the number of damage over time in effect on the enemy.Fire is raw, relying on max resource (selfish). Your damage increases from within yourself.
Lightning is a utility that benefits others from your own source(s). Your damage increases your own and others'.
Frost is a utility that benefits self from others source(s). Your damage increases with others'.Edited by SirMewser on September 16, 2019 3:56AM1 -
DaNnYtHePcFrEaK✭✭✭GuyNamedSean wrote: »DanteMR1995 wrote: »We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-
Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?
The problem is that the taunt pulls aggro from the tank in parties. So as a healer, I like defensive options to keep myself alive while healing. The ice staff was a solution to this, allowing me to actually block hard cc/damaging abilities... However, I can't my mana resources back with heavy attacks, or I pull the boss to me... That's ridiculous and frustrating. Sword and board doesn't taunt on a heavy attack, I don't get where you got that from? Heavy attacks are necessary for sustain, especially now in morrowind. The taunt has to go!
You do know restro heavies restore more resources right?0 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭I think this forum should automatically lock threads that haven't had new comments in a month or so.3
-
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't get why frost has to be for tanking.
Aspects;
Fire - Single Target
Lightning - AoE
Frost - DoT ta da
Wielding Bonuses;
Fire - improves single target skills including single target damage over time but not ground telegraphic skills.
Lightning - improves area of effects including area of effect damage over time but not enemy targeted skills.
Frost - improves single target and area of effect damage over time but not initial impacts of skills.The change I proposed can be looked at as a triangle;
fire excels at instant-STs/ST-DoTs but not AoE-DoTs/instant-AoEs,
lightning excels at instant-AoEs/AoE-DoTs but not instant-STs/ST-DoTs,
frost excels at ST-DoTs/AoE-DoTs but not instant-STs/instant-AoEs.
Each having 2 beneficiary aspects of a skill and 2 ignored values of a skill.
This would open up new playstyles!
Heavy Attack Bonuses;
Fire - deals more direct damage to primary target via heavy attack..
Lightning - deals area of effect damage over time via heavy attack.
Frost - deals persisting damage over time via heavy attack.Heavy attack damage with frost could deal its damage over time rather than instant, allowing the player to tag multiple enemies or even work a periodic heavy attack into their rotation as it would be neither instant and over with (like fire) or channeled (like lightning) which prevents casting other skills.
Secondary Effects;
Fire - applies burning, a damage over time based on your max magic and spell damage on the enemy..
Lightning - applies concussed, a debuff to mitigation that increases everyone's damage on the enemy.
Frost - applies chilled, instant damage based on the number of damage over time in effect on the enemy.Fire is raw, relying on max resource (selfish). Your damage increases from within yourself.
Lightning is a utility that benefits others from your own source(s). Your damage increases your own and others'.
Frost is a utility that benefits self from others source(s). Your damage increases with others'.
Tbh i think that it only effecting DoTs is a bad idea. If it was instead a critical focus that would allow for more builds other than just stacking no-life DoTs. I'd totally love to use a mag crit build that'd rock with crits.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on September 16, 2019 4:48AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheNightflame wrote: »no, for no other reason than it gives WW a taunt
No it doesn'tCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭Ice is a defensive element.
Looking at wardens, all their ice abilities are centered around defensive play, even the three that deal damage.
Similarly, NPCs that use ice abilities mostly use them defensively, like that nifty ice wall (that I want) and barriers.
The ice element status effect, Chilled, inflicts minor maim which helps with tanking.
There are also two other staff options for those who want to DPS. Reserving one option for tanking is more than fair. Everything can't be about DPS all the time.
In short, if you want to DPS, use one of the DPS-centered staves. Leave my Frost staff alone plz.
And (un)holy necro. It has been 2 years. I think it is safe to say this change is here to stay.Edited by Daemonai on September 16, 2019 1:40PM1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ice is a defensive element.
Looking at wardens, all their ice abilities are centered around defensive play, even the three that deal damage.
Similarly, NPCs that use ice abilities mostly use them defensively, like that nifty ice wall (that I want) and barriers.
The ice element status effect, Chilled, inflicts minor maim which helps with tanking.
There are also two other staff options for those who want to DPS. Reserving one option for tanking is more than fair. Everything can't be about DPS all the time.
In short, if you want to DPS, use one of the DPS-centered staves. Leave my Frost staff alone plz.
And (un)holy necro. It has been 2 years. I think it is safe to say this change is here to stay.
Ice is and has always been a DPS element in the elder scrolls and in this game, with NPCs, there are only very few defensive spells i have even seen them having, only things I can recall are frost barriers. I'm all for half of warden's frost skills remaining for tanking, but this breaks what has already been established. MagDPS has very few choices for magic weapons and the frost staff should be for them because it logically always has been there is such little choice for them at the moment. But at the same time, I think it's only fair that a new weapon, an alteration or illusion staff should be created solely for the purpose of tanking and defence first before Frost should be changed.
I don't think we should leave the Frost Staff alone, but i don't think tanks should lose a magic tanking weapon either.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on September 16, 2019 2:07PMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭All ZoS have to do is make taunt toggle-able and everyone will happy. There is NO reason to not want this solution.
I dont get why people cry "frost staff is tank weapon". Look at skills, all of them are suited to deal damage except elemental weakness.0 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
Ice is and has always been a DPS element in the elder scrolls and in this game, with NPCs, there are only very few defensive spells i have even seen them having, only things I can recall are frost barriers. I'm all for half of warden's frost skills remaining for tanking, but this breaks what has already been established. MagDPS has very few choices for magic weapons and the frost staff should be for them because it logically always has been there is such little choice for them at the moment. But at the same time, I think it's only fair that a new weapon, an alteration or illusion staff should be created solely for the purpose of tanking and defence first before Frost should be changed.
I don't think we should leave the Frost Staff alone, but i don't think tanks should lose a magic tanking weapon either.
ZOS has decided to go a different route with ice in this game and that is fine since this game is not a 1-to-1 faithful adaption of any of the previous Elder Scrolls games. In this game, ice is a defensive element.
All Ice magic in this game is inherently defensive because ice damage has a chance to proc the status effect Chilled, which applies Minor Maim, which is a defensive status effect. Compare it to the shock damage status effect, Concussion, which applies Minor Vulnerability, and It is clear ZOS's intention for the ice element.
MagDPS may have few choices, but MagTanks have fewer. There are 4 staves in the game. Healers get 1, Tanks get 1, and DPS get 2; one that increases the damage of single-target abilities, and one that increases the damage of AoE abilities. My question is what exactly do you expect to be able to accomplish with a frost DPS staff that you couldn't otherwise do better with one of the other staves, other than "its ice"?
Tanks deserve options too and the only way I'd support ice staff changes is if ZOS released a new staff, as you suggested, purely for tanking. I'm also fine with moving the taunt to its own passive. Until then, leave my ice staff alone plz.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Ice is a defensive element.
Looking at wardens, all their ice abilities are centered around defensive play, even the three that deal damage.
Similarly, NPCs that use ice abilities mostly use them defensively, like that nifty ice wall (that I want) and barriers.
The ice element status effect, Chilled, inflicts minor maim which helps with tanking.
There are also two other staff options for those who want to DPS. Reserving one option for tanking is more than fair. Everything can't be about DPS all the time.
In short, if you want to DPS, use one of the DPS-centered staves. Leave my Frost staff alone plz.
And (un)holy necro. It has been 2 years. I think it is safe to say this change is here to stay.
Ice is and has always been a DPS element in the elder scrolls and in this game, with NPCs, there are only very few defensive spells i have even seen them having, only things I can recall are frost barriers. I'm all for half of warden's frost skills remaining for tanking, but this breaks what has already been established. MagDPS has very few choices for magic weapons and the frost staff should be for them because it logically always has been there is such little choice for them at the moment. But at the same time, I think it's only fair that a new weapon, an alteration or illusion staff should be created solely for the purpose of tanking and defence first before Frost should be changed.
I don't think we should leave the Frost Staff alone, but i don't think tanks should lose a magic tanking weapon either.
Elder Scroll games have always been single player so everything was really dps.0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Meanwhile since it is what it is, here is an idea..
If ice is your preferred staff and you need sustain, make it infused and use Glyph of Absorb Magicka so your light attacks restore Magicka.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
Ice is and has always been a DPS element in the elder scrolls and in this game, with NPCs, there are only very few defensive spells i have even seen them having, only things I can recall are frost barriers. I'm all for half of warden's frost skills remaining for tanking, but this breaks what has already been established. MagDPS has very few choices for magic weapons and the frost staff should be for them because it logically always has been there is such little choice for them at the moment. But at the same time, I think it's only fair that a new weapon, an alteration or illusion staff should be created solely for the purpose of tanking and defence first before Frost should be changed.
I don't think we should leave the Frost Staff alone, but i don't think tanks should lose a magic tanking weapon either.
ZOS has decided to go a different route with ice in this game and that is fine since this game is not a 1-to-1 faithful adaption of any of the previous Elder Scrolls games. In this game, ice is a defensive element.
All Ice magic in this game is inherently defensive because ice damage has a chance to proc the status effect Chilled, which applies Minor Maim, which is a defensive status effect. Compare it to the shock damage status effect, Concussion, which applies Minor Vulnerability, and It is clear ZOS's intention for the ice element.
MagDPS may have few choices, but MagTanks have fewer. There are 4 staves in the game. Healers get 1, Tanks get 1, and DPS get 2; one that increases the damage of single-target abilities, and one that increases the damage of AoE abilities. My question is what exactly do you expect to be able to accomplish with a frost DPS staff that you couldn't otherwise do better with one of the other staves, other than "its ice"?
Tanks deserve options too and the only way I'd support ice staff changes is if ZOS released a new staff, as you suggested, purely for tanking. I'm also fine with moving the taunt to its own passive. Until then, leave my ice staff alone plz.
If frost were to be changed to dps it should have a crit focus, chance or damage, either would work. This has been seen in other game series but is also related to Iceheart. But i agree that it should not change until a proper staff that is designed to be for tanking, is created.
Minor maim is a universally helpful debuff to apply to enemies, it would shine brightest in pvp where more people could gain acess to it if they like by using a frost staff as their frontbar dps weapon. In PvE, DK and Warden tanks would be great at applying it by using their aoe root. And another form of giving it to enemies could be applied through this new staff.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale0 -
friimynd✭✭✭why should there be a staff designed for tanking?
If you blast them with ice, they don't like it and attack you. They have to kill you first so you don't slow them down. (theoretically); it ins't really tanking, doesn't really have anything to do with tanking
besides, you will be running away kiting the tank because you're a squishy and everyone else will have to be running in a circle after you, lolgg ^&*
Oh, now i 'C', lol ( * & ^ )
Finally realized it is supposed to be about 'friends' online, lol; i thought it was about 'enemies' online, hmm
Well, i can (must) buy the darkwood (?) sry, lol; blackwood expansion to get the companions, right? i'm looking into it right now.
If they gonna put companions in the game, i'm a fool to say no (and be a f2p peon grinder, lol; feel for u, i used to do to) ;#)0 -
friimynd✭✭✭also, it is effective for a healer to taunt the boss if the tank is failing; then heal the tank and it can re-tauntgg ^&*
Oh, now i 'C', lol ( * & ^ )
Finally realized it is supposed to be about 'friends' online, lol; i thought it was about 'enemies' online, hmm
Well, i can (must) buy the darkwood (?) sry, lol; blackwood expansion to get the companions, right? i'm looking into it right now.
If they gonna put companions in the game, i'm a fool to say no (and be a f2p peon grinder, lol; feel for u, i used to do to) ;#)0 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭GuyNamedSean wrote: »DanteMR1995 wrote: »We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-
Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?
We run lightning staff as tanks, so i wouldnt mind zos taking ice staff tanking, its not even good, it has the same debuff as heroic slash, a weak damage skill, and we run ranged taunt anyway because ice heavy attack (if you are selfish enough to use ice) is slow0 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭Ice is a defensive element.
Looking at wardens, all their ice abilities are centered around defensive play, even the three that deal damage.
Similarly, NPCs that use ice abilities mostly use them defensively, like that nifty ice wall (that I want) and barriers.
The ice element status effect, Chilled, inflicts minor maim which helps with tanking.
There are also two other staff options for those who want to DPS. Reserving one option for tanking is more than fair. Everything can't be about DPS all the time.
In short, if you want to DPS, use one of the DPS-centered staves. Leave my Frost staff alone plz.
And (un)holy necro. It has been 2 years. I think it is safe to say this change is here to stay.
You have to use lightning staff as tank to support your team with offbalance0 -
friimynd✭✭✭make all ice abilities have a level of taunt depending on the severity of the slow effect (or immobilize, etc)
all actions have some level of taunt, i suppose; except for sneaking
increase the ice taunt across the board, then the staff taunt will just 'fit in' with the rest of the ice abilitiesgg ^&*
Oh, now i 'C', lol ( * & ^ )
Finally realized it is supposed to be about 'friends' online, lol; i thought it was about 'enemies' online, hmm
Well, i can (must) buy the darkwood (?) sry, lol; blackwood expansion to get the companions, right? i'm looking into it right now.
If they gonna put companions in the game, i'm a fool to say no (and be a f2p peon grinder, lol; feel for u, i used to do to) ;#)0
