Veteran zones ?

Jeremy · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

FierceSam wrote: »

Cos Craglorn was such a roaring success.....

Still unvisited by the majority of players....

Why would ZOS bother developing content that the majority of players don’t even qualify to play in?

If you look at what they are doing they are trying everything to develop new content that ALL players can play in and enjoy.

As far as content difficulty goes there is a clear hierarchy and overland mobs sit firmly on the bottom. They will only ever be a challenge for players who are new or simply can’t play the game, they are intended to be speed bumps not road blocks. The same extends to quest bosses.

World bosses are more like road blocks, some are easy, some require groups, but all are doable and a small minority can solo all of them. They ARE a challenge for the vast majority of players.

ZOS do design content for the most capable players, indeed they have an entire team whose only job is to do this. They pump out 4 dungeons and a trial every year. The mechanics they develop filter down the system and show up in overland content eventually, albeit in a much diluted easier to defeat way.

I don’t know any elite level players who aren’t going to take time out to explore and fully discover the Dragonhold DLC.. and once they have they will be back off to dungeons and trials, bags full of loot and stories

Craglorn is a false analogy because it was a single zone. The reason players did not visit it is because they were busy trying to finish up content in other zones.

If they were to add a veteran version of every zone - that way players could quest and explore in them no matter what content they were doing - I promise you they would be popular.

Xerikten · September 2019

I don't care

been there and done this in an other mmo whose regular content was this. sadly I doubt most of you are capable of making your way through such a zone if every mob plays as such.

Malmai · September 2019

Yes

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm not interested in a repeat of Skyrim's Legendary mode with more damage and more health. That's boring.

New enemies, more enemies, new AI, and new tactics would be lovely. Is ZOS going to put in the time and effort to do that? Hah. I wish.

So, it depends.

Cash in with new update to support this mentality...

Elsonso · September 2019

No

Vhozek wrote: »

I just wanna be able to feel like my new characters are ACTUALLY new characters (low level) and for quest bosses to ACTUALLY feel like bosses. It only works if you never put points into CP, play with level 1 gear, and never unlock skills which is NO way to play the game.

Why wouldn't that be the way to play the game? (I'm assume that by, unlock skills, you mean unlocking skills that your other characters have maxed out, not normal leveling)

That seems like it is the way to play the game.

martygod12 wrote: »

All those voting no .. you do realize that if the overland content Is enough challenge for you you can still play normal non veteran zones? The veteran zones will be only for those wanting some extra challenge

I voted "no" because this is why One Tamriel happened.

martygod12 wrote: »

So seriously the overland at current state Is Fun for you?

Yes. The last thing I want is artificially harder wolves, squirrels, bears, etc, simply because it is a "veteran" level. Let overland be reasonably uniform across Tamriel.

Jeremy wrote: »

Craglorn is a false analogy because it was a single zone. The reason players did not visit it is because they were busy trying to finish up content in other zones.

No, this was not the case. There were plenty of max VR players at the time. Craglorn did not match what the players wanted, so ZOS backed that train up and turned it into a normal zone.

martygod12 · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

lordrichter wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just wanna be able to feel like my new characters are ACTUALLY new characters (low level) and for quest bosses to ACTUALLY feel like bosses. It only works if you never put points into CP, play with level 1 gear, and never unlock skills which is NO way to play the game.

Why wouldn't that be the way to play the game? (I'm assume that by, unlock skills, you mean unlocking skills that your other characters have maxed out, not normal leveling)

That seems like it is the way to play the game.

martygod12 wrote: »

All those voting no .. you do realize that if the overland content Is enough challenge for you you can still play normal non veteran zones? The veteran zones will be only for those wanting some extra challenge

I voted "no" because this is why One Tamriel happened.

martygod12 wrote: »

So seriously the overland at current state Is Fun for you?

Yes. The last thing I want is artificially harder wolves, squirrels, bears, etc, simply because it is a "veteran" level. Let overland be reasonably uniform across Tamriel.

Jeremy wrote: »

Craglorn is a false analogy because it was a single zone. The reason players did not visit it is because they were busy trying to finish up content in other zones.

No, this was not the case. There were plenty of max VR players at the time. Craglorn did not match what the players wanted, so ZOS backed that train up and turned it into a normal zone.

Srsly making yourself bad and weak i. Order to have some challenge in the game Is how to play a game?? This Is supposed to be fun or what?

Again I am not talking about the mob I also dont want to spend 5minutes by killing every imp or scamp ... I am talking ONLY about the bosses which should be stronger.

Nirntrotter · September 2019

No

Vanilla Craglorn was a sh!tfest. No thanks.

BrightOblivion · September 2019

No

Jeremy wrote: »

martygod12 wrote: »

Yes another poll about this .. we need it ASAP .. ok try to write also a reason why Are you voting yes or no

We need it. This game's landscape content has become far too easy for Veteran Players and adding an optional Veteran Zone for players looking for more of a challenge while they quest and explore would be the best way to to handle it in my opinion. So long as it's optional - I really don't see why anyone should oppose this.

Then, with respect, you're not looking hard enough. I've already explained my opposition to it, and it has nothing to do with opting in or opting out. It has to do with requiring already-limited resources to be stretched even further to facilitate creating veteran versions of every single zone, delve, world boss, dolmen, and public dungeon, or, at a minimum, all of the associated bosses, setting up the back end for it (which I have a sneaking suspicion is considerably more complicated than just copying dungeon code, due to having to maintain that state across all the zones and instances, some of which change just by stepping across an invisible line, and you needing to be able to swap back and forth at will with limited inconvenience, perhaps even mid-quest), and making sure that it's not a chaotic, buggy mess.

You keep stressing that the vet zones are "optional," but the costs that would be associated with making them happen are anything but. They'd impact everyone, not just those who want veteran zones for challenging questing that will be done once and then left alone. No opt-out option. No toggle. No exceptions.

Additionally, we don't "need" it. Certain people, like you, want it, but it's not a necessity.

TheHsN · September 2019

Yes

I say yes,

The zones are to easy to walk around and anything drops there not good at all.
we need veteran Zones and better item drops

InvictusApollo · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

PvE is far too easy. We need something to make it more challenging and enjoyable.

Edaphon · September 2019

No

We already had veteran zones once. They weren't more interesting than regular zones, just more tedious.

martygod12 · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

martygod12 wrote: »

Yes another poll about this .. we need it ASAP .. ok try to write also a reason why Are you voting yes or no

We need it. This game's landscape content has become far too easy for Veteran Players and adding an optional Veteran Zone for players looking for more of a challenge while they quest and explore would be the best way to to handle it in my opinion. So long as it's optional - I really don't see why anyone should oppose this.

Then, with respect, you're not looking hard enough. I've already explained my opposition to it, and it has nothing to do with opting in or opting out. It has to do with requiring already-limited resources to be stretched even further to facilitate creating veteran versions of every single zone, delve, world boss, dolmen, and public dungeon, or, at a minimum, all of the associated bosses, setting up the back end for it (which I have a sneaking suspicion is considerably more complicated than just copying dungeon code, due to having to maintain that state across all the zones and instances, some of which change just by stepping across an invisible line, and you needing to be able to swap back and forth at will with limited inconvenience, perhaps even mid-quest), and making sure that it's not a chaotic, buggy mess.

You keep stressing that the vet zones are "optional," but the costs that would be associated with making them happen are anything but. They'd impact everyone, not just those who want veteran zones for challenging questing that will be done once and then left alone. No opt-out option. No toggle. No exceptions.

Additionally, we don't "need" it. Certain people, like you, want it, but it's not a necessity.

Ok so what about just making the bosses harder after certain level ?

Lets say level 1- cp160 normal easy bosses so new players doesnt get wrecked.

And co160+ veteran/harder bosses with better loot. Dont tell me that player who plays long enough to get to cp160 can't handle this.

And no new zones would be required So it will not cost many resources .

Ashtaris · September 2019

No

They already had Veteran Zones, and it was a failure. Most of the time the vet zones were too hard for casuals so they just quit the game rather than trying to “git gud” as so many demand. Getting rid of the vet zones and bringing in One Tamriel was probably one of the smartest things that ZOS has done for the overall health of the game.

Craglorn was a failure in that it forced grouped gameplay and questing. It was too hard to keep the same 3 or 4 members all the way through the main quests, but if you brought in someone new they would be out of sync and it usually ended up being a mess. And again, casuals want to be able to play the content as well as the uber-elite-melt-everything-in-sight crowd.

I’m OK with a difficulty or debuff slider you can adjust for yourself, but totally against any zones that would discourage new players.

Jeremy · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

lordrichter wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just wanna be able to feel like my new characters are ACTUALLY new characters (low level) and for quest bosses to ACTUALLY feel like bosses. It only works if you never put points into CP, play with level 1 gear, and never unlock skills which is NO way to play the game.

Why wouldn't that be the way to play the game? (I'm assume that by, unlock skills, you mean unlocking skills that your other characters have maxed out, not normal leveling)

That seems like it is the way to play the game.

martygod12 wrote: »

All those voting no .. you do realize that if the overland content Is enough challenge for you you can still play normal non veteran zones? The veteran zones will be only for those wanting some extra challenge

I voted "no" because this is why One Tamriel happened.

martygod12 wrote: »

So seriously the overland at current state Is Fun for you?

Yes. The last thing I want is artificially harder wolves, squirrels, bears, etc, simply because it is a "veteran" level. Let overland be reasonably uniform across Tamriel.

Jeremy wrote: »

Craglorn is a false analogy because it was a single zone. The reason players did not visit it is because they were busy trying to finish up content in other zones.

No, this was not the case. There were plenty of max VR players at the time. Craglorn did not match what the players wanted, so ZOS backed that train up and turned it into a normal zone.

I didn't go to Craglorn back when it was oriented toward groups. It wasn't because of the challenge. It was simply because I was too busy finishing up content in the other zones.

People who like to quest/explore are usually the type of players who like to stick around and do everything in all the zones. Besides, it was never realistic to expect Veteran Players to spend all their time doing dailies in Craglorn anyway. It was a flawed concept - and that's why it failed. You have only to look toward Veteran Dungeons to see that, as people certainly do those. Veteran zones would be the same. But you can't reserve it to a single zone or accompany it with some massive grind like the previous attempts did.

If they made a veteran version of each zone high level characters could quest and explore in I can promise you they will be popular.

BigBragg · September 2019

This is one of those ideas that seem good on paper, but has been proven to not work in practice.

Jeremy · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

BigBragg wrote: »

This is one of those ideas that seem good on paper, but has been proven to not work in practice.

It would work in practice too. Veteran Dungeons work fine. Veteran Zones would too. They just have to implement it right.

BrightOblivion · September 2019

No

martygod12 wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

martygod12 wrote: »

Yes another poll about this .. we need it ASAP .. ok try to write also a reason why Are you voting yes or no

We need it. This game's landscape content has become far too easy for Veteran Players and adding an optional Veteran Zone for players looking for more of a challenge while they quest and explore would be the best way to to handle it in my opinion. So long as it's optional - I really don't see why anyone should oppose this.

Then, with respect, you're not looking hard enough. I've already explained my opposition to it, and it has nothing to do with opting in or opting out. It has to do with requiring already-limited resources to be stretched even further to facilitate creating veteran versions of every single zone, delve, world boss, dolmen, and public dungeon, or, at a minimum, all of the associated bosses, setting up the back end for it (which I have a sneaking suspicion is considerably more complicated than just copying dungeon code, due to having to maintain that state across all the zones and instances, some of which change just by stepping across an invisible line, and you needing to be able to swap back and forth at will with limited inconvenience, perhaps even mid-quest), and making sure that it's not a chaotic, buggy mess.

You keep stressing that the vet zones are "optional," but the costs that would be associated with making them happen are anything but. They'd impact everyone, not just those who want veteran zones for challenging questing that will be done once and then left alone. No opt-out option. No toggle. No exceptions.

Additionally, we don't "need" it. Certain people, like you, want it, but it's not a necessity.

Ok so what about just making the bosses harder after certain level ?

Lets say level 1- cp160 normal easy bosses so new players doesnt get wrecked.

And co160+ veteran/harder bosses with better loot. Dont tell me that player who plays long enough to get to cp160 can't handle this.

And no new zones would be required So it will not cost many resources .

And how hard would "harder" be? What would make them harder? Would they just hit harder? Would you do less damage? Would there be different mechanics? How would the game tell if you were above CP160? What if someone below level 50 or above CP160 joined a fight already in progress? Would they be stuck in the version of the person who'd started the fight? What would stop a lowbie from "leeching" from a higher level player, or a higher level player being stuck in an unrewarding scenario for the boss fight? Would they be separated somehow? How would that work when quite a few of the bosses are just placed inside building interiors that aren't even separate instances? Better loot? Better how? What impact would that have on the economy?

That doesn't even go into whom you're balancing the content for. For whom is it harder? The person hitting 5k? 20k? 45k or even more? To make matters even more confusing, you can't treat it as a given that, just because a person's reached CP160 with a certain toon, they're at the same skill level with it as another person, or even that person with a different toon. They could have leveled it differently, choosing to PvP instead, or choosing to switch from mag to stam or vice versa, or even choosing to have leveled as a healer or tank. They could just be having difficulty with the playstyle that the toon requires (I experience this almost every time I pick up my stamblade, for instance). It could have been a long time since they played that toon and they've gotten rusty. They also may just not feel like having a knock-down, drag-out fight with bosses at that given time, and would rather have it easier.

The issue is that, even this suggestion that you think would be easy to implement and "not cost many resources" is actually a lot more complicated than it sounds. All of these questions and who knows how many more would have to be considered and answered satisfactorily, and that assumes the current system even supports it. There'd have to be a tangible enough benefit to it for the effort to be justified, without turning off or alienating more players than it might attract. And frankly, I'm just not sure they have that right now. Even on a forum which seems like it gets more veterans than new players, I'm not seeing overwhelming or even particularly convincing support for the idea.

Elsonso · September 2019

No

martygod12 wrote: »

Srsly making yourself bad and weak i. Order to have some challenge in the game Is how to play a game?? This Is supposed to be fun or what?

Again I am not talking about the mob I also dont want to spend 5minutes by killing every imp or scamp ... I am talking ONLY about the bosses which should be stronger.

I can see boosting world boss strength.

WeerW3ir · September 2019

BigBragg wrote: »

This is one of those ideas that seem good on paper, but has been proven to not work in practice.

its proved to not working already 4 years ago...

Nirntrotter · September 2019

No

Edaphon wrote: »

They weren't more interesting than regular zones, just more tedious.

This!! The overland Dragons are imho a nice example of content that you can't faceroll, but can still exist in a non-vet zone.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · September 2019

Yes

martygod12 wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Wanted to vote no cliked yes by mistake

Didnt we had those until one tamriel? and werent them always empty?

So seriously the overland at current state Is Fun for you?

Yes i play for the story and nothing else so yes im satisfied with it

Red_Feather · September 2019

Secret World has a special "Lair" area in each zone.
It is a small percentage of the zone but super hard. It appears on the map as a burnt up area.

These quarantined areas have mini bosses that all need to be beaten as they drop parts of themselves. Then players perform a ritual with the fallen mini boss pieces to summon a super boss. The super boss drops special signets which socket into armour to enhance specific game mechanics.

Here is some players performing the ritual with mini boss parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFnrzzpCtUE

It is very endgame as groups can want the same area, to fight the same boss, so it can become contested. Only the group that summons the boss gets the rewards.

kargen27 · September 2019

No

Adding vet only instances just lowers the populations in each zone and if the only difference was the difficulty of bosses I'm guessing vet zone would be mostly empty.

I still think the best solution would be to introduce foods and drinks that reduce instead of increase stats. That way if you want a tougher fight just eat the appropriate food and it doesn't affect anybody elses game play.

Sadetius · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

Veteran zones would be great, and the devs thought it was a great idea anyway to implement some kind of difficulty options for player anyways : link

and additionally classic wow has shown that there is definitely an audience for the more methodical, slower leveling with threat.

Naftal · September 2019

Yes for the love of god finally do IT!!!

Yes. Tougher enemies, mechanics that oneshot you if you don't play the mechanic, more xp/gold/resources as reward.

There won't be any lower populations on zones, the people who want the veteran overland mode don't play there currently and if they do, they solo everything easily.

People need to stop proposing the "gimp yourself" bull****. This is a progression based game, content needs to progress as player skill and gear progresses.

Some people propose that we just go play the harder instanced content but that defeats the whole purpose. We want the normal elder scrolls questing thing with progression system while fighting enemies that actually need fighting instead of deleting them with a press of a couple of buttons, this is not playing a game anymore.

EDIT: Nvm this thread is asking something different that I'm not interested in. I just want veteran mode for overland zones, not just harder bosses.

Czeri · September 2019

No

I remember when you needed to group up in order to collect mats from an enchanting survey in Craglorn, because there was a nest of wasps right over it that most people couldn't kill solo. It was extremely inconvenient.

That's the problem with hard content, while it's great every once in a while, when you manage to get a group that all want to do the same things in the same order. The other 99% of the time it's a massive pain in the ass. Look at the world bosses - ever since they got harder no one is doing them unless there's an event.

Nordic__Knights · September 2019

martygod12 wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

No need. Let everything stay the same and then wonder why ppl move away to play other, more challenging games.

Yes my point I am not even playing eso at the moment because the current difficulty is designed for 3 years old toddlers And as an adult I want to have some challenge when playing a game

I'm with you there I stop playing and let my five-year-old take over he seems to enjoy the game where I don't know more

Nordic__Knights · September 2019

Well you guys talkin about the world before 1 Tamriel real the reason why everything was so dead was because we was split into three different Fashions within two different instances of the same place now that there is only two instances and not fully locked fractions people would populate the zones regardless of difficulty and the difficulty wasn't the reason why there wasn't people in the Zone it's because they were new and wasn't leveled up high enough to get there in the beginning we are all stuck at the pig farm farming pigs 16 hours a day or did you forget

LegacyDM · September 2019

Game had vet zones before one Tamriel.the veteran system was a disaster.

kargen27 · September 2019

No

Naftal wrote: »

Yes. Tougher enemies, mechanics that oneshot you if you don't play the mechanic, more xp/gold/resources as reward.

There won't be any lower populations on zones, the people who want the veteran overland mode don't play there currently and if they do, they solo everything easily.

People need to stop proposing the "gimp yourself" bull****. This is a progression based game, content needs to progress as player skill and gear progresses.

Some people propose that we just go play the harder instanced content but that defeats the whole purpose. We want the normal elder scrolls questing thing with progression system while fighting enemies that actually need fighting instead of deleting them with a press of a couple of buttons, this is not playing a game anymore.

EDIT: Nvm this thread is asking something different that I'm not interested in. I just want veteran mode for overland zones, not just harder bosses.

The only real way they could progress difficulty would be to lock content behind leveling. If the zones were not level locked who would take priority when a level three and a level fifty both ended up at the same place?

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

No

I'm guessing ZOS looked at how Craglorn was doing and decided not to do another veteran zone for good reason.