Major_Lag wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Certainly from ZOS's perspective, more players willing to go to IC for events is better than lots of players who don't know about IC or who never have a reason to go there.

The problem is, there is still no reason to go there, outside of events.

At all times when there isn't an IC event active, the IC rewards are crap, and the divide between player skill levels is quite severe: there's some PvE farmers who are just farming telvar... and then there are the hardcore PvPers who are hunting the former. Not much middle ground.

"Dead IC" is a very hostile place for inexperienced PvPers, which just further serves to drive potential players away.
The sociopathic mechanics of telvar gain splitting in groups do not help any, either.

Edit:

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Let people have fun, you're just miserable about it for no reason.

Lol, what makes you think I care about what happens during the event?
I'm not participating in it in any way (not even PvE dungeons), don't care about some ugly mount that I would never use anyway.

The events are always messy, because the zones end up overcrowded and everything breaks down (relative to how things normally are). That's just how it is.

The salient point here (raised by the OP) is, what could be done to make PvP more fun for a wider audience.
And IC is one place that would particularly benefit from such changes. There's so little reason to go there outside of events - ZOS should change that

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Every time there is a PvP event that is supposed to attract PvErs to PvP, we get an outcry from PvErs that they don't like being killed in PvP. Some person even got "traumatized"...
But I'm not here to tell people how to man up.

I've created this thread so that people - all people: both PvPers and PvErs could post their ideas on how to make PvP more inviting and friendly for PvErs. I'll post my idea in a seperate thread.

Major_Lag wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I would also require them to read a dictionary so they don't misuse words like "sociopath"

Maybe YOU should read a dictionary, because that was not "misuse" of the term.

The way telvar gain splitting works, it is 100% antisocial because it means that the bigger your group is, the less you gain.

Good/experienced players are very reluctant to group because of this, they prefer to farm solo instead.
There's much more to this, but that's beside the scope of the discussion, so let's leave it at that.

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.

If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.

If you get rid of tel var you lose all purpose for the heart of IC, killing the zone. Just because some people find the zone to be toxic doesn't mean it is, especially when these people seem to have the least experience in the zone. You're not going to change the toxic part of the experience which is the ganking. People are still going to gank other people and you're still going to see the same people complaining they got killed in the sewers on the way to the boss. They just won't have the TV excuse to crutch them.

If the only reason of IC for existing is Tel Var, then ZOS should kill it anyway. According to your logic if somebody isn't interested in Tel Var at all, shouldn't go there.

That's the biggest selling point to come into the zone for people, it isnt the only reason IC exists. Lol all the effort in the world to change/shutdown IC, 0 effort to learn pvp mechanics.

I wonder why zos isnt speeding along right now getting all those IC fixes......oh wait what's what? You've only played the zone for 10min and suddenly you're a scholar on it? Sorry friend, I dont think that's how it works.

You said yourself that without Tel Var IC isn't viable. That means to me it's simply not interesting for most of the players - so either ZOS needs to add more incentives to go there and fight, or they should let it die in silence. You are right, I'm not going there, because there isn't any reason for me to step in IC. One day I will do the questchain, but I'm not in a hurry with that.

And to react your other answer... WoW doesn't have any dedicated PvP realm any more. All of them was changed to PvE with Battle for Azeroth - however if you flag yourself for open world PvP, you get an XP buff (and if I remember well, it buffs your loot chances too).

The point of IC is to get PVP players that want to PVP other players and this includes ganking as part of the mechanics and game play. For PVE players the main point is the storyline which revolves around a WARZONE where soldiers are fighting for dominance and control over the city. The tel var is an added bonus to buy things like Hakeijos and PVP IC armor sets from vendors which has benefits for both PVE and PVP players. If you remove any part of that, you throw off the balance of the entire zone. No pve means less players coming in to get killed for the pvp population and for pve players that keep screeching about a pve only version would come to find a zone not centered around pve that would take all of 30min to complete and would enrage them more. Taking tel var out further decreases the value of the zone.

You've gotta understand it is very interesting to people, it has great lore, there's lots of completionists out there that want to do everything, and some people have Oblivion nostalgia. You've even shown interest yourself saying you wanna do the quest chain at some point. So let me tell you the biggest turn off that actually exists for IC. Oversensitive people that only complain and talk about the worst aspects of it like you're watching the news. It's all murder doom and gloom and instead of doing anything about it they take to the forums to whine and cry about how the zone doesn't cater to them, their wants, and what they expect. There's tons of posts about sewer gankers at base and bemoaning getting farmed when these players willingly go out and die over and over. Not one thinks to group up, go out together, go up to a district and use the sewer entrance there and go around to fight them from behind. Nope, that's beyond most people, they need the game changed, stuff like that's too hard. PVP and IC is just like any part of PVE that you hope to complete, you get gear, you learn your role, and you put in the time to improve yourself an your skills. For some reason if you kick someone for low cp, you're toxic in a starting zone, your pull low dps it's accepted by the greater player base but man, use a mechanic like cloak as ZOS intended it and suddenly you're Mitler #2, you need to be banned, demoted, lose all your gold and achievements, and the entire core of the game needs to be changed.

Edited for spelling

Trust me, I understand your point - however if there is only one thing (Tel Var) to justify the very existence of a game mode (IC as a PvPvE one), then I consider it as unnecessary. ZOS could entrely remove Tel Var and revamp IC into something else - maybe a pure PvE version for the questchain and a pure PvP version for something else (AP and/or stat buff in Cyrodiil?
You are right, there has to be more to offer so that IC won't be too empty any other time of the year. But there is the problem of spawn point ganking. It's a very bad first experience for somebody who never stepped inside the sewers before, and grouping up won't help with the fact that you can be killed while you are still seeing a loading screen. It was proposed that the players could be invincible if they are still loading into the zone; i would add 5 more seconds to that to be able to move and do anything in a fight (the invincibility buff also would remove the chance to gain Tel Var if you manage to kill someone in that 5 seconds).

MaleAmazon wrote: »

All of this trouble and effort just so people can avoid being told to get better at a game type. Imagine if you put the effort into pvp that you put into making up reasons you died in pvp.

It´s pretty normal for an online game to have some kind of tier system. Starcraft 2, you aren´t setup vs professional Koreans, instead the game gauges your performance and matches you with people your skill level.

100 hours was just an example.

There is no place people can go to PvP without being whaled on by people in full decked out PvP gear and unlocked skills (I´m guilty as sin of being one, but at least I don´t call my characters names like 'Azzbutcher' and bunnyhop everywhere). When you go into PvP, ride for 5 minutes only to get stunlocked and killed in 2 seconds flat, it is off-putting. There is no reason they couldn´t put in a place in the game where people can learn PvP without being constantly massacred. I guess BGs were an attempt but so long as the match setup aren´t tiered, it doesn´t really work.

jainiadral wrote: »

What is there to learn from being insta-killed? What I learn is, "This activity is a total waste of time. Go do something else instead."