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How to make PvP more friendly and inviting to PvErs?

  • tallenn
    tallenn
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    Diminishing returns on looting other players.

    For example: if you are killed by the same player within 1 hour, you don't drop anything. That would include the team. Gankers couldn't farm the same player(s) over and over again.
  • RPGplayer13579
    RPGplayer13579
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    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    My Characters.

    Mike Snow - Imperial - Templar - One-Handed and Shield - Tank - Daggerfall Covenant - Commander.
    Catelyn Rivers - Breton - Sorcerer - Destruction Staff - Daggerfall Covenant - Telvanni Magister.
    Ashara Sand - Redguard - Warden - Two-Handed/One-Handed and Shield - Daggerfall Covenant - Heroic.
    Tormund gro-Largash - Orsimer - Dragonknight - Two-Handed - Daggerfall Covenant - Furious.
    Lysa Rivers - Breton - Nightblade - Bow/One-Handed and Shield - Vampire - Daggerfall Covenant - Brassy Assassin.

    Jon Karstark - Nord - Dragonknight - Two-Handed - Ebonheart Pact - Drunk.
    Arya Sand - Dunmer - Dragonknight - Dual Wield - Ebonheart Pact - Assassin.
    Sansa Snow - Impeial - Warden - Destruction Staff/One-Handed and Shield - Ebonheart Pect - Swashbuckler.
    Jojen Reed-Walker - Argonian - Templar - Restoration Staff - Healer - Ebonheart Pact - Melancholy.
    Alys Karstark - Nord - Nightblade - Bow/Dual Wield - Ebonheart Pact - Minstrel.

    Nymeria Woods - Bosmer - Nightblade - Bow - Aldmeri Dominion - Thief.
    Brandon Wings - Altmer - Templar - Restoration Staff - Healer - Aldmeri Dominion - Scholar.
    Lyanna Flowers - Altmer - Sorcerer - Sword/Destruction Staff - Aldmeri Dominion - Duchess.
    Marvolo-jo Riddle - Khajiit - Necromancer - Destruction Staff - Aldmeri Dominion - Deadlands Firewalker.
    Obara Woods - Bosmer - Templar - Bow - Werewolf - Aldmeri Dominion - Cheerful.

  • iamkeebler
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    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    There are stories in the individual towns in Cyrodiil and IC is one giant story.
  • Wrexsoul
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    Watchdog wrote: »
    This would not make PvP attractive to me. This would simply frustrate me to no end, because it would lock even more content behind PvP, making those things unavailable to me.

    No, thanks.

    If people aren't willing to participate in PvP then they don't deserve PvP based rewards. I'm sure there are quite a few people upset they can't easily get things locked behind PvE but too bad for them as well.

    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Proper attention to resource management, self healing, keeping up buffs, etc. makes a lot more of a difference than wearing a meta set or not - especially for an inexperienced player who wouldn't be able to use such sets to their full potential anyway.

    I agree. The problem is people in PvE gear instantly melt so they never learn anything except frustration. I think it is relatively easy to go farm/craft PvP sets but I'm sure a lot of people are turned off by the idea or don't have the spare time and so just don't bother.

    PvP doesn't need to be dumbed down or anything. We can keep the ceiling high while lowering the floor.
  • jainiadral
    jainiadral
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    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    Yeah, that's a big nope for me. I like my PvE and storytelling to be stress and interruption-free. I'd probably check out IC once or twice if there were no PvE whatsoever.
  • BigBragg
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    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    You mean like all the stories that surround the Three Banners War?
  • MattT1988
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    Arthg wrote: »
    With how frequent calls are from PewPewEers on these forums to remove the PvP part of the game altogether - the only gesture we can make is to smack and stomp them, and ruthlessly take their Telvar over and over again.

    There is literally two or three people on this forum that post that nonsense. That’s an unfair statement.
    I just wish we had open world PVP in all zones. Would make it such a fun game.

    *Sigh* there’s always one or two of you in threads like this. When are people like you going to learn that if you implement this, most of the playerbase will stop playing.
    This is not what this game is, stop trying to make it something it’s not and stop suggesting something that’s going to take a straight up dump on the PvE players.
    It’s attitudes like this is part of the reason there is a clear divide between the players of the two general styles of play.
    Edited by MattT1988 on September 13, 2019 6:08PM
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    Wrexsoul wrote: »
    I agree. The problem is people in PvE gear instantly melt so they never learn anything except frustration. I think it is relatively easy to go farm/craft PvP sets but I'm sure a lot of people are turned off by the idea or don't have the spare time and so just don't bother. .

    Exactly! Which is why my prior post about the current armor vendors that don’t sell anything useful can sell an entry level PvP set for gold. All impen, no procs slightly lower than Hundings or Julianos to not offend crafting.

    Would help alot to get started. Then with reward boxes, AP and BG end of match wins they can upgrade.
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    jainiadral wrote: »
    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    Yeah, that's a big nope for me. I like my PvE and storytelling to be stress and interruption-free.

    Yup, that's the problem with the questing in Imperial City. I made sure to do it on one character before IC became its own campaign. I got it done completely stress free and it was an enjoyable experience. I wouldn't even consider going in there to do it now... doubly so during an event. I would like to do those quests again on my Imperial character, but... it's not gonna happen. Not unless I go in there with a group, which presents its own set of problems for immersion and interruptions.
  • Burtan
    Burtan
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    I would suggest removing the inpen trait or reducing it and adding a base level of critical resistance to all armour types to make switching between PvE and PvP more fluid. Also in my opinion sets that provide buffs that only work in either PvE or PvP instead of both should be changed such as Warriors Fury before recent changes and several PvE sets that provide the Slayer buff which only works on dungeon or trial enemies.

    Right now changing between PvE and PvP requires vastly different builds and traits making the transition tedious and also making anyone who chooses to give PvP a try in their usual PvE equipment extremely weak and unable to compete because they will be demolished by critical strikes.

    Other than these points, PvE players could do with better advice and ways of learning PvP instead of the current tips like "Try using magicka abilities to improve combat effectiveness" or "when outnumbered, use roots to even the odds"
  • Emmagoldman
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    In every mmo i've played, there are a small group of pvers that loose their minds over anything pvp related and it goes to an extreme. We should get rid of pvp together!!! No dueling!!! What, the devs have ANOTHER pvp map???? Even with 95% of the games content surrounded around PVE, that 5% is TOO MUCH!!! There MUST be a PVE option.

    Of course though, the PVE events should NEVER, EVER have pvp as an element. It's no issue that a majority of sets are through pve. It's just "Kind of" hypocritical and childish.

    For me, I really don't care if they are upset about one event in a video game. I haven't lost it over thieves guild celebration, jesters, Orsinium, VVardenfell, new life, undaunted, clockework city, witches ect. It's a game, and life has way more priorities then loosing it over a feather.

    The problem isn't game related, it's a personal problem. It's ego, of how do "I", the wonderful me, loose to someone else. I think for pvpers, we can let go of the emotion of loosing to a person (generally). For those on the other side of the spectrum, they can't handle the feeling of loosing, not being top, and outplayed. The other person MUST be cheating, that's it, i'm done.

    Kind of like a kid that has a huge bowl of ice cream, but mad that there aren't red sprinkles.
  • JKorr
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    hakan wrote: »
    JKorr wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    You can't. The problem is not with PvP itself.

    I think you've got it.

    From what I've seen in other threads, plus the less than fun experiences I've had when I had to go to IC for crafting purposes, the problem isn't with pvp.

    The problem is with *some* of the pvp *players*.

    Getting killed isn't a problem. Happens all the time in questing in pve, in dungeons, in pledges, and trials. What doesn't happen in pve is the insults, trash talk, and other happy stuff. Not one world boss ever told me what my Mom said last night. Not one critter in a delve ever sent a "Learn2Play, expletive deleted no0b" whisper. And not one boss, monster, or critter ever followed me across the zone to keep killing me because I didn't want to fight, only get to the crafting station. There may be pvpers that actually do want a fair fight, who won't take getting beaten as a personal insult, but I have yet to run into one.

    I get enough random abuse in RL; work, traffic, even just grocery shopping sometimes. I really don't need that in my "for fun and enjoyment" activity.
    Vapirko wrote: »
    How can you make something more friendly when the ones who are on here crying about it don’t even want to try? They say they hate PvP and dont want to ever do and that they’re forced to even though they’re not. They don’t want to make it more fun they want PvE only versions of Cyro and IC.

    Ever consider that some players really aren't competitive and don't really care whether anyone else's character can beat theirs? It's not so much I don't want to try, I just don't see the point in it at all. You can kill me, good on you, congrats, gold star. Really makes not the slightest bit of difference in anything. See, while I don't pvp, I will help out guildies who want to try out a character by dueling. If they win, good for them. If I win, I show them what I did, so they can figure out how to beat it. Getting beaten is not a personal insult. If I want to do quests, talk to npcs, play the story, then getting killed by another player who feels a need to trash other players just because, is an annoyance and an interruption. A pve only version of Cyro and IC *would* be fun for me because I would have to deal with the npc monsters and enemies, and not the hyper competitive players who have to kill everyone everywhere constantly.

    yeah bosses dont insult. but players do there. oh you have 20k dps? get lost. lulw. all the nerfs and pve fights, people quitting in mid dungeon all of it because of this.

    you are delusional to think pvp is the toxic one here.

    to the topic. they just want it to be easy as daily normal pledges, thats it. you can do NOTHING about it.

    :shrug: Different experiences then. For me it has nothing to do with level of difficulty. I do pledges when asked with people in my guilds. Never had anyone insult me. Never had anyone quit in the middle of something either. I did say *some*; of course there are pve elitists too. Since they are easy to avoid by not grouping with them, their effect is negligible. Not so easy to do when, instead of needing to cooperate with you, they can attack/fight/kill you, it is, imo, worse. Easier to simply not bother with pvp.
  • Sorbin
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    There isn't a way. We live in a society fueled by outrage. People on here have literally compared IC to real world criminal behavior lmao.
  • Agenericname
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    jainiadral wrote: »
    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    Yeah, that's a big nope for me. I like my PvE and storytelling to be stress and interruption-free. I'd probably check out IC once or twice if there were no PvE whatsoever.

    I don't mind. It's about the only place where I can quest and there is a threat of dying. That being said, every time I go it's like "squirrel!" and I run off to kill or be killed. Outside of Cyrodiil I have less than 30 skill points to obtain, I think 17 to be exact. IC may be the last one I get to.

    It may not be interruption free, but it is stress free. They're only soul gems and pixels.
  • GarnetFire17
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    The problem on PC NA is that the factions are not balanced when it comes to hardcore Pvp groups. It doesn't seem like AD has many active groups. DC has the most, EP somewhere in the middle. AD relys more on numbers than organization and skill just to try to compete. Then it becomes a matter of, we can't win, so we'll comeback later when the try hards are gone.
  • Major_Lag
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    Starlock wrote: »
    Yup, that's the problem with the questing in Imperial City. I made sure to do it on one character before IC became its own campaign. I got it done completely stress free and it was an enjoyable experience. I wouldn't even consider going in there to do it now... doubly so during an event.
    Same here, I finished the IC mainquest in peace (on my main) shortly before IC became its own campaign.
    I used one of the post-event Cyrodiils which was completely dead, and that instance of IC had all district flags of my alliance's color. PvE story mode, basically :)

    And just for fun, I tried doing the IC mainquest on one of my mule alts during the event, knowing fully well that it almost certainly won't work because of the overcrowding.
    Sure enough, when playing solo, it's impossible to progress past the arena quest. (edit: at least, without a proper PvP build on a properly levelled PvP character)
    I tried a few times during different times of day/night, and the arena was constantly either camped by gankers or overran by zergs. :/
    Edited by Major_Lag on September 13, 2019 6:20PM
  • jainiadral
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    jainiadral wrote: »
    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    Yeah, that's a big nope for me. I like my PvE and storytelling to be stress and interruption-free. I'd probably check out IC once or twice if there were no PvE whatsoever.

    I don't mind. It's about the only place where I can quest and there is a threat of dying. That being said, every time I go it's like "squirrel!" and I run off to kill or be killed. Outside of Cyrodiil I have less than 30 skill points to obtain, I think 17 to be exact. IC may be the last one I get to.

    It may not be interruption free, but it is stress free. They're only soul gems and pixels.

    LMAO, I guess for me MAH STORIES is my MAH IMMERSION :D But I hate, hate, hate dying in PvE. Pure PvP, I don't care about death. I guess it comes with sucking like a rotten egg-- just par for the course if I'm going to do it ;)
    Starlock wrote: »
    jainiadral wrote: »
    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    Yeah, that's a big nope for me. I like my PvE and storytelling to be stress and interruption-free.

    Yup, that's the problem with the questing in Imperial City. I made sure to do it on one character before IC became its own campaign. I got it done completely stress free and it was an enjoyable experience. I wouldn't even consider going in there to do it now... doubly so during an event. I would like to do those quests again on my Imperial character, but... it's not gonna happen. Not unless I go in there with a group, which presents its own set of problems for immersion and interruptions.

    I guess that should have been the time for me. Oh well :D Honestly, I've never understood how either Cyrodiil or the IC work. You can't just zone in like any other part of the game, so that's been another obstacle.

    Side note: I totally don't get the whole campaign thing at all. If I'm going to try out these zones, it looks like I have to make a major time and method commitment-- am I getting that much right? A week or a month, and I can't decide to do something else PvP-ish on a different toon? So, not only do I need specially crafted gear, but to spend 3K gold to re-allocate my CP into that unused part of the Warrior tree, but I have to make a long-term commitment too?

    Yikes. That's a lot for a few skyshards and a couple of skills :s Zoning in to WvW was a lot less complicated in GW2.
    Edited by jainiadral on September 13, 2019 6:39PM
  • Rave the Histborn
    Rave the Histborn
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    Starlock wrote: »
    jainiadral wrote: »
    If you want PvEers to join campaigns in Cyrodiil then give us a story to follow.

    Yeah, that's a big nope for me. I like my PvE and storytelling to be stress and interruption-free.

    Yup, that's the problem with the questing in Imperial City. I made sure to do it on one character before IC became its own campaign. I got it done completely stress free and it was an enjoyable experience. I wouldn't even consider going in there to do it now... doubly so during an event. I would like to do those quests again on my Imperial character, but... it's not gonna happen. Not unless I go in there with a group, which presents its own set of problems for immersion and interruptions.
    But it's not supposed to be a quiet stress free zone. It's supposed to be the story of soldiers in a warzone.
  • Dojohoda
    Dojohoda
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    I was a PVE'er before I became a PVP'er. Nothing enticed me to pvp. It is part of the game and I gave it a solid try and found that I really like it.

    I want to ride around towns on my grand overlord Mammoth (looks over to those who could make that happen). I think if I ride through towns on my bigarse mammoth, some players might think they want one and then join in pvp. (Again, looks over to those who could make that happen)

    :D
    Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
    Might be joking in comments.
    -->(((Cyrodiil)))<--
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    jainiadral wrote: »
    Side note: I totally don't get the whole campaign thing at all. If I'm going to try out these zones, it looks like I have to make a major time and method commitment-- am I getting that much right? A week or a month, and I can't decide to do something else PvP-ish on a different toon?
    No. You can PvP on all of your characters if you want to.

    This is somewhat complicated if you have characters on more than 1 alliance, since the 30-day campaigns are faction locked. But you can PvP with 1 faction in CP, 1 in no-CP each month.

    And in 7-day campaigns you can bring any character you want (no faction lock), but the 7-day campaign is... kinda special, and quite empty.

    (Edit: typo)
    Edited by Major_Lag on September 13, 2019 6:48PM
  • CaffeinatedMayhem
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    This is really a design problem with PvP in ESO. Ganking or zerging are literally the best ways to not die in PvP... so unless you're really into dueling or already in a big PvP guild, you are SOL and dead.

    So, making PvP more enticing to PvE is ZOS problem.

    I'm only into IC, and the only reason I spent 500k making a 1v1 build was to stop the ganker harassing DC in non-CP this week. Unless ZOS can backtrack on this PvP mess it will never be more attractive to PvE-ers.

    You know what PvE people *will* do? BGs.
    Ganking isn't as prevalent. I never queue for Deathmatch, so BGs are actually fun.
    The games require tactics and just killing people is not enough to win. However, 3 people can win against 8 others if they PTFO.
    Non-CP so you can jump in with just an armor change.

    If ZOS could make ganking not profitable, minimize harassment, and make PvP more fair (right now you're either "good" or dead), you'd get more PvE participation.

    My estimate on any of this happening in Cyro or IC? Yeah, we'll get capes and flying mounts first.
    Edited by CaffeinatedMayhem on September 13, 2019 6:53PM
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    This is really a design problem with PvP in ESO. Ganking or zerging are literally the best ways to not die in PvP...
    Zerging = strength in numbers (kinda... sorta...) - so what else were you expecting?
    It's an alliance war, a largescale conflict - not a duelling tournament, nor a Battleground :D

    As for ganking being "best way to not die" - uhh, no.
    A bad ganker will get rekt a lot - since it isn't exactly easy to gank a competent PvP player, unless they are AFK or in a loadscreen.

    And if you are a good enough ganker to survive most of the time, then you are also a good enough PvPer to do well on a non-gank build as well, so the point is moot.
  • Weesacs
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    When they die, some of their loot/gold should be accessible on their corpse.

    I lol'd
    Breton Templar
    PS5 - EU - DC
  • MojaveHeld
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    I'm both a PvPer and PvEr. I get where both sides are coming from. That being said, with IC, the solution to getting more people in there is something that many other PvPers won't like. Get rid of Tel Var loss on getting killed by other players. The overwhelming amount of Tel Var created in the zone is from PvE objectives. But the overwhelming loss of it is from getting ganked when you're already low health, or getting steamrolled by a large group of players. The gankers and bombers who can take large amounts of tel var from players at no risk to themselves, slink off and bank it all, and then rinse and repeat, are why the zone is practically dead. The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.

    If you still keep the tel var loss from getting killed by bosses, mobs, etc., the zone still has it's risk:reward balance for most players, but as long as the zone heavily rewards trolling and griefing, the majority of people will stay out. The balance is currently tipped in the favor of a playstyle that most players find toxic, so until that is changed, there's not much PvPers can do to make the zone more welcoming. Advocating for changes to eliminate that sort of behavior is really all they can do, and many of the people that frequent the zone already are guilty of that exact behavior, so they're unlikely to support making changes.
  • Krec
    Krec
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    It is already a friendly place... surf the zerg
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    with IC (...) The PvE play is doing all the work, and the PvP playing is usually stealing a significant amount of the rewards, at little to no risk to themselves. It's just poor zone design.
    This.

    Pretty much all telvar comes (is "mined"/farmed) from PvE objectives.
    Or it would be more accurate to say that it is "generated", since that's what introduces it into circulation.

    So IC as a zone simply cannot function as designed (gain TV from player kills) without players farming the PvE elements to "create" the TV in the first place.
    This is... really, fantastically poor design, IMO. :/
  • colossalvoids
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    It's 100% on players like it always were, but you can have zero control over it.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Account-wide PVP MMR (determined by k:d ratio), with rewards scaling by personal MMR and by MMR of killed player. I.e. killing of PVE-er with 0 MMR should give 1 XP and 1 AP and zero to MMR. In the same time high-MMR player receives much higher rewards for killing other high-MMR players, with certain limitations to avoid exploiting of course.

    In Cyro this will make "farming" of noobs pointless
    In BGs this will help with matchmaking greatly
    In IC amount of lost (and gained) telvar might scale with this too. So basically low-MMR player can go farm 10k telvar from mobs-bosses, be killed and lose only 10-20% of telvar... on the other side for high-MMR players it might be closer to 80%, to make fighting between high-MMR players more tempting.
  • InvictusApollo
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    Ideas with MMR to deincentivise killing PvErs won't work as some people don't care about AP, XP, gold, tel vars or anything else other than just killing someone.
  • MajBludd
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    If they wanted to pvp, they would. I never played an mmo before this game. I tried pvp, died a lot, but stuck with it. Because I found playing against other ppl more fun than doing the same content over and over.
    No, pvp is not the same content over and over because a fight with the same person cam be very different each time. There are no mechanics to learn or memorize that will save you.
    So, if they wanted to pvp, they would. The ones that cry like school girls will never play because they aren't geared for it mentally.
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