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Taking gold from members for unnamed "exploit"?

  • Mr_Walker
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    things like the alliance locks

    Trolling?

    Alliance locks in PvP were specifically removed, and their removal was not an exploit.
  • WalkingCodex
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    Just want to clarify, zos has not said who I got the gold from, when I got the gold, was it in one lump sum or added together, no details about anything. All I have is their statement that X amount was involved in an exploit so they were taking X amount back. Nothing about how I could prevent the same thing from happening again in the future.

    They don't need to tell me everything obviously but some information is mandatory. I posted here looking for other people this has happened to and no one has raised their hand. And Zoe hasn't replied to my email from yesterday but with an event going I imagine it will take several days.
  • VaranisArano
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    The only thing to do is to follow up on that ticket, which for now probably means patience. If it feels like you aren't getting a response in a timely manner, you can try posting the ticket # here and tagging the Devs.

    Maybe you can follow up with the people in your guild?

    You won't get your answers here, since ZOS generally doesn't discuss these things openly on the forums.
  • PrisPlayz
    PrisPlayz
    Soul Shriven
    Thank you Walking Codex! I was coming here to complain too! We better get some answers soon!
  • maxjapank
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    Did you buy large amounts of raw materials or something from someone in zone to resell?
    Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
  • PrisPlayz
    PrisPlayz
    Soul Shriven
    maxjapank wrote: »
    Did you buy large amounts of raw materials or something from someone in zone to resell?
    Walking Codex, 4 other people we know and myself all had gold taken back from us yesterday and today. We all have different situations. We had transactions between each other. Buying and trading. We bought from a guild trader. We bought from zone chat player. We won prize from a guild. None of us are bots. We didn’t know any of our gold or mats was dirty. I think we are all innocent consumers in a filthy economy. How are we to protect ourselves? Why punish us? Go after the bots!
  • PrisPlayz
    PrisPlayz
    Soul Shriven
    We have all responded to our emails. I think it's messed up to take our gold on a Friday. Then peace out for the weekend. We're all just stuck waiting. No further details. So, of course we are going to post in here.
  • Rake
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    acting dumb, I see
    2/10
  • BackAndAngry
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    According to that scrolling text ZOS can do whatever they want and that’s what they do

    Digital pixels
    PSA - Crown items paid for cash have a chance to soon be obtainable in game for free
    Not my quote "It took a while to sink in that we’re killing it right now..."
  • Dont_do_drugs
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    I read a similar thing from PS4 in german forums. It definitely would be good, if ZOS would make something like an announcement or information, what kind of exploit or situation they are trying to solve here. It definitely doesnt seem having anything to do with the guild traders dupe from PC EU, but without any communication, what happened, people can not prevent this from happening again. Also, usually if you receive gold in a trading transaction, then the person who got the gold removed might have given the other person something for that gold, which is gone then as well. It definitely would be better for ZOS, to communicate these activities and the background. Even if they state its no disciplinary action it would also make me feel like i did sthg wrong without knowing what.

    Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)

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  • Elara_Northwind
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    This happened to a friend of somebody in my discord server yesterday. He apparently had sold crowns just before this happened, so he thought perhaps it was something to do with that? But according to my friend he has sent tickets about it, because he has not exploited the game in any way that he is aware of.
    Sorcerer, Templar, Housing Addict!

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  • thegreatme
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    Most likely it involved some form of duped or bot-farmed gold, I would imagine. In that case, ZoS has a few options on how to approach it, but from their standpoint the "safest" way to go about it is remove the duped gold from the game, wherever it went, but not punish people who were unaware of the exploit other than that.

    Unfortunately the standard fall-back of people using exploits to avoid getting in trouble is to claim ignorance ("I didn't know it was an exploit" / "I didn't know I was cheating", etc). They can assume either that you were an innocent victim, or that you're lying. In the case of the liars, if they let them get away with it, that just allows them to cheat more and harm the game's economy. So ZoS likely sticks to the "Better safe than sorry" approach, by removing whatever was gained through the cheat, innocent or not, so the actual cheaters who pretend not to know aren't made to think they can just get away with it if they play stupid, and hopefully deter at least a handful of them from doing it again by making all their efforts wasted time and no benefit.

    And ZoS really has no way of knowing for sure how innocent any of us are in dupe gold matters, since a common tactic of trying to slip it by the systems is to bounce gold across multiple accounts they own as if they're trading to another person, when they're really trading to themselves or a friend who's in on the exploit. There's no solid way for ZoS to combat this unfortunately except ban the confirmed cheaters and remove the dupe gold regardless of who was involved or not on the off-chance you're one of them but they can't solidly prove as much. Which means you don't get a strike or a ban, but you don't benefit off the cheating either.

    A frustrating and unfortunate experience for any truly unaware victim of the in-game fraud that happens, but I can easily see why they handle it this way.
    Give Bosmer their stealth back you cowards
  • Juhasow
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    I don't want to be told how to exploit something. But there is a difference between saying "you used the ABC exploit" and here are the 1-2-3 steps you took to exploit. Right now, I have been robbed of gold just because they say say something happened. It is too arbitrary, I deserve more of an explanation and so does everyone that they take gold from.

    Actually ToS allows ZoS to reserve the right to not share any details with You if they penalized You for something and You agreed upon that treatment by accepting the ToS.
    Edited by Juhasow on September 9, 2019 10:13PM
  • thegreatme
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Actually ToS allows ZoS to reserve the right to not share any details with You if they penalized You for something and You agreed upon that treatment by accepting the ToS.

    There's also the fact that ZoS loses more than they gain by penalizing players in manners such as this without good reason, so they probably have a solid reason to do so. Its not like taking away player gold does anything to improve their lives or work place, and then having angry people message them repeatedly about their gripes, taking up time they could be putting elsewhere.

    So we can probably assume by extension they're not doing it for nefarious purposes.
    Give Bosmer their stealth back you cowards
  • lordrichter
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    I don't want to be told how to exploit something. But there is a difference between saying "you used the ABC exploit" and here are the 1-2-3 steps you took to exploit. Right now, I have been robbed of gold just because they say say something happened. It is too arbitrary, I deserve more of an explanation and so does everyone that they take gold from.

    Actually ToS allows ZoS to reserve the right to not share any details with You if they penalized You for something and You agreed upon that treatment by accepting the ToS.

    As you say, they can choose to say, or not say, what the reasons are. Seems ZOS does not normally choose to communicate, so it would not surprise me if they did not. :|
    Edited by lordrichter on September 9, 2019 10:32PM
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • Dusk_Coven
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    idk wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Sorry for your predicament but Zos will not say what the exploit was since that just helps people figure out how to exploit. They also don’t share who did the actual exploit since there are legal issues involved.

    No game company will PUBLICLY announce the details of an exploit for the reasons you stated.
    But they should privately tell the individual. Because the person could otherwise just go on doing what they are doing thinking it is not an exploit.

    That said, often exploits are blatant. But in the OP's case, clearly they don't understand what they did.

    You are assuming Zos did not handle whoever was doing the exploit.

    wrong

    So you know exactly what occurred and how Zos handled it but you are merely being coy with your replies. Got it.

    Another assumption. Which is again wrong.
  • Grimm13
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    idk wrote: »
    Vhozek wrote: »
    Devs punishing players for their faults. Mort, game design director, from Riot Games gave me this super responsible idle to look up to when he said people abusing bugs, exploit, or glitches shouldn't be punished because it's not their fault those things are in the game and accessible to players.

    If they are saying players finding things to exploit that are clearly not intended should not be punished even though they choose to exploit it to no end instead of reporting it then that seems pretty brainless.

    That is just plain dumb and if that person really did say that they do not have the intellect to manage an ant farm. I seriously doubt any dev/designer working for an online game said such a thing.

    The philosophy is programing needs to be correct or fixed asap. A fix the blame properly and Dev accept responsibility in getting it fixed. Just pressing a skill use button should never be considered an exploit anywhere. Yet many companies will count this as an exploit and it stays in a game way too long if they do fix it.
    Have you Voted on Update 23?
    I Voted with my $, canceled ESO+

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    PC-NA
  • DaveMoeDee
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    Vhozek wrote: »
    Devs punishing players for their faults. Mort, game design director, from Riot Games gave me this super responsible idle to look up to when he said people abusing bugs, exploit, or glitches shouldn't be punished because it's not their fault those things are in the game and accessible to players.

    This isn't a moral issue. It is a practical one. There will be exploits due to the nature of the genre. Abuse of the exploit could lead to a state where the game is seriously harmed.

    The grammar school moral philosophy isn't going to be a good guide here.
  • EmEm_Oh
    EmEm_Oh
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    Yesterday, I received an email from customer support saying that I received some gold connected to an in game exploit and so the game took the gold back. The exploit was unnamed and the amount of money taken from me was negligible. I requested more details and was content to wait to hear back.

    Until today. Today I answered a message in guild chat and discovered a dozen very unhappy people in my situation to the tune of tens of millions of gold.

    So we need to know. What exploit? And when? Because the email doesn't say and it doesn't tell us how to avoid this mysterious exploit in the future.

    Because giving me warm regards doesn't make me feel better about this situation. There are a lot of us who want answers.

    So, if you have had this happen to you, post it. Otherwise, would like an official response about this.

    Thanks, Sarah

    Tell us how much you lost. How did you get the gold that was confiscated.
  • Tasty
    Tasty
    Ackwalan wrote: »
    Well I'm old, and because I'm old I'm also very skeptical. When I hear about ZOS taking gold away from players and those players coming to the forums to say "they don't know why", well they know why we all know why.

    This.
    Ta'sty, Tastee, Tastie, Vicodiana, Majesticals, Quakadilly Blip, and a few others.
    TY for the donation!
  • Dont_do_drugs
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    Tasty wrote: »
    Ackwalan wrote: »
    Well I'm old, and because I'm old I'm also very skeptical. When I hear about ZOS taking gold away from players and those players coming to the forums to say "they don't know why", well they know why we all know why.

    This.

    actually it seemingly happened to players selling crowns, not knowing that the person who purchased those crowns from them exploited the gold for the crowns. so zos took the gold from them, but most likely didnt refund the crowns, thse are lost. i dont even know what to think about it. on the one side zos never really openly supported crown selling, its in a grey zone, one the other hand zos also benefited from that and i am pretty sure, that crown selling increased their income a lot, so i am pretty sure, it would be benefitial for all sides, if zos refunded those crowns to the "scammed" people.

    Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)

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  • idk
    idk
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    Grimm13 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Vhozek wrote: »
    Devs punishing players for their faults. Mort, game design director, from Riot Games gave me this super responsible idle to look up to when he said people abusing bugs, exploit, or glitches shouldn't be punished because it's not their fault those things are in the game and accessible to players.

    If they are saying players finding things to exploit that are clearly not intended should not be punished even though they choose to exploit it to no end instead of reporting it then that seems pretty brainless.

    That is just plain dumb and if that person really did say that they do not have the intellect to manage an ant farm. I seriously doubt any dev/designer working for an online game said such a thing.

    The philosophy is programing needs to be correct or fixed asap. A fix the blame properly and Dev accept responsibility in getting it fixed. Just pressing a skill use button should never be considered an exploit anywhere. Yet many companies will count this as an exploit and it stays in a game way too long if they do fix it.

    I could not agree more that issues need to be fixed quickly once discovered. However, this is not about a simple press of a button. There is a huge difference between finding an exploit and reporting it and finding the exploit and using it repeatedly for gain. Personally I think the comment by that Riot Games dev is taken out of context. If it is not then he is a moron and does not deserve to mop the floors there.
    Really, idk
  • VaranisArano
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    idk wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Vhozek wrote: »
    Devs punishing players for their faults. Mort, game design director, from Riot Games gave me this super responsible idle to look up to when he said people abusing bugs, exploit, or glitches shouldn't be punished because it's not their fault those things are in the game and accessible to players.

    If they are saying players finding things to exploit that are clearly not intended should not be punished even though they choose to exploit it to no end instead of reporting it then that seems pretty brainless.

    That is just plain dumb and if that person really did say that they do not have the intellect to manage an ant farm. I seriously doubt any dev/designer working for an online game said such a thing.

    The philosophy is programing needs to be correct or fixed asap. A fix the blame properly and Dev accept responsibility in getting it fixed. Just pressing a skill use button should never be considered an exploit anywhere. Yet many companies will count this as an exploit and it stays in a game way too long if they do fix it.

    I could not agree more that issues need to be fixed quickly once discovered. However, this is not about a simple press of a button. There is a huge difference between finding an exploit and reporting it and finding the exploit and using it repeatedly for gain. Personally I think the comment by that Riot Games dev is taken out of context. If it is not then he is a moron and does not deserve to mop the floors there.

    I decided to look it up, and I think I found the source. If not, I'd appreciate someone pointing me in the righr direction - the initial comment on this thread is rather vague.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/mortdog/status/1156613692953251840

    In context, reading up and down, the player thinks that using a bugged item/character is an exploit, and the Dev says its not an exploit, just a balance issue with certain stuff they are working on fixing, so players using the bugged stuff won't be banned.

    So assuming I've found the correct source, that's not really applicable to the ESO exploits that tend to get people banned, or even to whatever the problem with gold that happened here. Our exploits that get people banned tend to be obvious violations of how the game is supposed to be played, like cheating in PVP, snipe cheesing vAS, or abusing glitches like multuple skillpoints or IC exp.

    Its a much closer analogy to how ZOS handled the Onyx Indrik, the accident scalebreaker necromancer release, and the Coldharbor house sale for 1 crown. There, ZOS just fixed it and didn't punish anyone who took advantage of the glitch.


    Not that its applicable to ESO anyway, except in the tangential "Man, why isnt ESO more like X game?"
    Edited by VaranisArano on September 11, 2019 2:20PM
  • Dont_do_drugs
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    @VaranisArano still u're discussing in a totally wrong direction, when its about this case. not only one person mentioned it here, also someone from german community posted on facebook a screenshot of his contact with the support about a similar case. those people which got the gold removed, didnt use any exploit, they only sold crowns to someone, not knowing he exploited his gold - then the gold got removed form those, who sold the crowns. and there is something more to discuss about, than only the old repeating question what an exploit is and how to punish exploits. bcs someone just sold crowns to an exploiter, losing gold and crowns now.
    Edited by Dont_do_drugs on September 11, 2019 3:40PM

    Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    Egal, wie gut du Schach spielst, die Taube wird alle Figuren umwerfen, auf das Brett kacken und herumstolzieren, als hätte sie gewonnen.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    VaranisArano still u're discussing in a totally wrong direction, when its about this case. not only one person mentioned it here, also someone from german community posted on facebook a screenshot of his contact with the support about a similar case. those people which got the gold removed, didnt use any exploit, they only sold crowns to someone, not knowing he exploited his gold - then the gold got removed form those, who sold the crowns. and there is something more to discuss about, than only the old repeating question what an exploit is and how to punish exploits. bcs someone just sold crowns to an exploiter, losing gold and crowns now.

    I was specifically addressing the tangential point of "was this Riot Games dev's idea about handing bugs and exploits taken out of context" by finding what I think is the source for that original comment.

    Not that it matters, because what the devs of anither game do doesn't have any bearing on how ZOS chooses to enforce their TOS in ESO.

    Frankly, the best option any player impacted here has is to discuss it privately with Customer Support or a ZOS moderator. They only discuss exploits on the forums in very general terms and usually when its a big, obvious exploit that impacted a ton of players.
  • Kosbert
    Kosbert
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    Yesterday, I received an email from customer support saying that I received some gold connected to an in game exploit and so the game took the gold back. The exploit was unnamed and the amount of money taken from me was negligible. I requested more details and was content to wait to hear back.

    Until today. Today I answered a message in guild chat and discovered a dozen very unhappy people in my situation to the tune of tens of millions of gold.

    So we need to know. What exploit? And when? Because the email doesn't say and it doesn't tell us how to avoid this mysterious exploit in the future.

    Because giving me warm regards doesn't make me feel better about this situation. There are a lot of us who want answers.

    So, if you have had this happen to you, post it. Otherwise, would like an official response about this.

    Thanks, Sarah

    Did you "got" Gold from a 3rd Party RMT Site ?
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    Grimm13 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Vhozek wrote: »
    Devs punishing players for their faults. Mort, game design director, from Riot Games gave me this super responsible idle to look up to when he said people abusing bugs, exploit, or glitches shouldn't be punished because it's not their fault those things are in the game and accessible to players.

    If they are saying players finding things to exploit that are clearly not intended should not be punished even though they choose to exploit it to no end instead of reporting it then that seems pretty brainless.

    That is just plain dumb and if that person really did say that they do not have the intellect to manage an ant farm. I seriously doubt any dev/designer working for an online game said such a thing.

    The philosophy is programing needs to be correct or fixed asap. A fix the blame properly and Dev accept responsibility in getting it fixed. Just pressing a skill use button should never be considered an exploit anywhere. Yet many companies will count this as an exploit and it stays in a game way too long if they do fix it.

    This is a philosophy in life. If you stop and consider what you just said and apply it to life, you encounter this situation every day and successfully navigate down the proper path. Usually.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • idk
    idk
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    idk wrote: »
    Grimm13 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Vhozek wrote: »
    Devs punishing players for their faults. Mort, game design director, from Riot Games gave me this super responsible idle to look up to when he said people abusing bugs, exploit, or glitches shouldn't be punished because it's not their fault those things are in the game and accessible to players.

    If they are saying players finding things to exploit that are clearly not intended should not be punished even though they choose to exploit it to no end instead of reporting it then that seems pretty brainless.

    That is just plain dumb and if that person really did say that they do not have the intellect to manage an ant farm. I seriously doubt any dev/designer working for an online game said such a thing.

    The philosophy is programing needs to be correct or fixed asap. A fix the blame properly and Dev accept responsibility in getting it fixed. Just pressing a skill use button should never be considered an exploit anywhere. Yet many companies will count this as an exploit and it stays in a game way too long if they do fix it.

    I could not agree more that issues need to be fixed quickly once discovered. However, this is not about a simple press of a button. There is a huge difference between finding an exploit and reporting it and finding the exploit and using it repeatedly for gain. Personally I think the comment by that Riot Games dev is taken out of context. If it is not then he is a moron and does not deserve to mop the floors there.

    I decided to look it up, and I think I found the source. If not, I'd appreciate someone pointing me in the righr direction - the initial comment on this thread is rather vague.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/mortdog/status/1156613692953251840

    In context, reading up and down, the player thinks that using a bugged item/character is an exploit, and the Dev says its not an exploit, just a balance issue with certain stuff they are working on fixing, so players using the bugged stuff won't be banned.

    So assuming I've found the correct source, that's not really applicable to the ESO exploits that tend to get people banned, or even to whatever the problem with gold that happened here. Our exploits that get people banned tend to be obvious violations of how the game is supposed to be played, like cheating in PVP, snipe cheesing vAS, or abusing glitches like multuple skillpoints or IC exp.

    Its a much closer analogy to how ZOS handled the Onyx Indrik, the accident scalebreaker necromancer release, and the Coldharbor house sale for 1 crown. There, ZOS just fixed it and didn't punish anyone who took advantage of the glitch.


    Not that its applicable to ESO anyway, except in the tangential "Man, why isnt ESO more like X game?"

    Thx and I agree with your assessment that it is not applicable. While we do not really know the extent of this "balance issue", it seems to be a minor issue to begin with and that it's use in this thread is being stretched out of context. To suggest your take on it is going in the wrong without actually providing anything worthy to back that up is just grasping at straws.

    The same goes that some players come up with all sorts of excuses trying to call something an exploit when it really is not. Case in point, we have seen time and time again people call AC an exploit and cheating yet it clearly is not on a factual basis.
    Edited by idk on September 11, 2019 11:13PM
    Really, idk
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