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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
Shady Sales? Gold laundering? Or MM & TTC sabotage?
SamboJ
✭✭✭
Hello!
I encountered this similar issue with sales in our guild trader roughly a year ago & was compelled to remove the people involved from the guild. I thought it may have been an attempt to sabotage MM & TTC data, most likely bots using guild stores to transfer gold between accounts? It's the only logical conclusion that makes sense, none of the accounts ever respond to mail or pm.
It happened again just a few days ago (see picture). We could have waited a while & rolled around in all their taxes like Scrooge McDuck, but within hours they were contacted, given ample response time, then removed & blacklisted. We're giving away their taxes to the winner of an in-guild contest ending next month!
If there's other reasons behind what they do it'd be great to know what they are!
Kind regards,
@SamboJ
(PC ~ NA Server)
I encountered this similar issue with sales in our guild trader roughly a year ago & was compelled to remove the people involved from the guild. I thought it may have been an attempt to sabotage MM & TTC data, most likely bots using guild stores to transfer gold between accounts? It's the only logical conclusion that makes sense, none of the accounts ever respond to mail or pm.
It happened again just a few days ago (see picture). We could have waited a while & rolled around in all their taxes like Scrooge McDuck, but within hours they were contacted, given ample response time, then removed & blacklisted. We're giving away their taxes to the winner of an in-guild contest ending next month!
If there's other reasons behind what they do it'd be great to know what they are!
Kind regards,
@SamboJ
(PC ~ NA Server)
"Chasing elder scrolls since 2002."
Founder of Tamriel Fisheries (PC/NA/2015)
Founder of Tamriel Fisheries (PC/NA/2015)
9
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Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Are player-to-player direct trade transactions are automatically scrutinized, and that is the reason they are using a guild trader despite the huge fees?
And why wouldn't they just bid on a trader kiosk in a lousy cheap location and just do all their laundering there instead of risking discovery in this way? By going through a public legit guild you risk your laundering activity showing up in MM and TTC, for starters.Edited by Dusk_Coven on September 10, 2019 4:27AM0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Are player-to-player direct trade transactions are automatically scrutinized, and that is the reason they are using a guild trader despite the huge fees?
Very likely the users would assume the transaction would be buried or ignored among other sales.
We know ZOS certainly doesn’t care to have anything to do with trade guilds beyond their gold sink bids, no way they’d ever look at any sales without prompting from other users.Dusk_Coven wrote: »And why wouldn't they just bid on a trader kiosk in a lousy cheap location and just do all their laundering there instead of risking discovery in this way? By going through a public legit guild you risk your laundering activity showing up in MM and TTC, for starters.
Why would they not consolidate all evidence of their questionable transactions in one place with little to no legitimate ones to hide among? That seems like an obvious answerEdited by Jhalin on September 10, 2019 4:29AM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Are player-to-player direct trade transactions are automatically scrutinized, and that is the reason they are using a guild trader despite the huge fees?
Very likely the users would assume the transaction would be buried or ignored among other sales.
We know ZOS certainly doesn’t care to have anything to do with trade guilds beyond their gold sink bids, no way they’d ever look at any sales without prompting from other users.Dusk_Coven wrote: »And why wouldn't they just bid on a trader kiosk in a lousy cheap location and just do all their laundering there instead of risking discovery in this way? By going through a public legit guild you risk your laundering activity showing up in MM and TTC, for starters.
Why would they not consolidate all evidence of their questionable transactions in one place with little to no legitimate ones to hide among? That seems like an obvious answer
But your first answer suggests the second answer is not necessary. If ZOS doesn't scrutinize sales until someone reports them, then in their own guild they would simply not report anything. (Of course if they were somehow found out, all parties would be listed in the same place...)
They could even make a guild with no kiosk and use the private guild sales.
In any case, I think the OP's post is useful for showing that investigating exploiters is often a manual process.Edited by Dusk_Coven on September 10, 2019 4:39AM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Are player-to-player direct trade transactions are automatically scrutinized, and that is the reason they are using a guild trader despite the huge fees?
I would not expect all transactions are scrutinized but we do know Zos has been interested in finding those who received ill-gotten gold via the recent trader issue. They have taken action against gold duping in the past when it came to light. To think they would turn a blind eye to it or would not be concerned is somewhat absurd as it destabilizes games.
Edit: @ZOS_GinaBruno the information OP has may be of interest for Zos to look into. Maybe a nice PM to them for the unedited SS.Edited by idk on September 10, 2019 5:27AM3 -
SamboJ✭✭✭Edit: @ZOS_GinaBruno the information OP has may be of interest for Zos to look into. Maybe a nice PM to them for the unedited SS.
Always happy to help if I can! I'll make an in-game ticket to help our employee of the year, we love you Gina!
"Chasing elder scrolls since 2002."
Founder of Tamriel Fisheries (PC/NA/2015)1 -
The_Old_Goat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it's admirable that a guild leader would watch for these activities and handle them accordingly. One annoyance I've noticed frequently(as a buyer) are the one's who post an item at a lower price and then pull it and re-list at twice the price, to manipulate TTC and bring a buyer to their kiosk I can only assume.5 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
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It might inflate MM values, but completed sales get eventually removed from TTC listings and won't contribute the way an overpriced listing that just sits there does. (and my feeling is that a lot of those are just people who don't know how to price their items). While I'm sure there is a robust market for elegant lining, I'd be very surprised if there's a lot of real transactions for cloudrest golden ale, so that seems an unlikely market to try to manipulate.3 -
Dont_do_drugs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭* it might be goldselling/buying - low value item gets sold for absurd price
* it might be a price manipulation attempt
* if its a price manipulation attempt and its refined crafting stuff, there is still a chance someone reselling botted material and having access to large amount of crafting material still might be behind it
which case it is, is something up to your gms senses, other infos might help u:
* is it a one-timer or do they sell it like this multiple times, with what kind of increased price then, since sabotaging prices wont work, if the sold price is too high and gets excluded by an mm setting as example
* are both people in your guild
* is the buyer outside of your guild and a trading nonamer or are both well known powersellers
* do those accounts have trading histories in your guild or in different guilds that u can track via addon to get a bigger picture of their activities
and so on....
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"I have too admit. People leading trade guilds in this game are quite stupid. Not stupid like fools, but stupid like leaders.
They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."
Egal, wie gut du Schach spielst, die Taube wird alle Figuren umwerfen, auf das Brett kacken und herumstolzieren, als hätte sie gewonnen.
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Luthid✭✭✭When I see a single item listed or sold for 1m gold I assume it’s a joke. I blame @Preyfar for starting it with his 1m potato a few years back
I myself have been known to list a single Chub or Rough Oak for 1m just for kicks, and they sometimes sell to a well known, deep pocketed player I assume also just for kicks. I once bought a 1m Tomato for the same reason. Because what else are we going to do with our gold really?
But when I see transactions like the one pictured by the OP I assume either gold laundering/selling or an attempt to manipulate pricing. Either way it results in a report to ZOS and getting kicked and blacklisted from the guild.
2 -
ATomiX69✭✭✭✭thats 100% money laundering from the multi bidding incident, report that player and send screenshots to ZOS support.smurf account
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Dont_do_drugs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thats 100% money laundering from the multi bidding incident, report that player and send screenshots to ZOS support.
sry to say so, but thats just bs. shady trade activities like that happened before in all guilds for multiple reasons as well.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"I have too admit. People leading trade guilds in this game are quite stupid. Not stupid like fools, but stupid like leaders.
They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."
Egal, wie gut du Schach spielst, die Taube wird alle Figuren umwerfen, auf das Brett kacken und herumstolzieren, als hätte sie gewonnen.
Arkadius Trade Tools
Modular framework, now open for authors who want to add own tabs.
My Donation (Arkadius' Trade Tools Addon)
First external ATT tab contribution.
Port to Friend's House Addon
Check out the new Port to Friend's House library and port to contributers houses:
Deutsch | English2 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looks like laundering or 3rd party gold selling to me.
I keep a close eye on my guild store to see if things like that are happening. Any responsible GM that cares about these sort of things would want to have a talk with the seller of those items and see what's up as a minimum. Without a satisfactory answer, I'd boot and report the seller immediately.4 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wouldn't worry about it too much... Just report and get rid of them in your guild. This is serious enough that support will take care of it.1 -
SamboJ✭✭✭
This appears to be exactly what happened. They were added via the new recruit system, listed the items & a non-guild member purchased them via our public trader in a very short amount of time.
The figures imply that they bought 20,000,000g & still got short-changed. What bothers me most is that they're targeting guilds with traders to make these transactions. Luckily we've got the best leaders anyone could ask for, the situation was dealt with swiftly & fairly to the best of our abilities.
Kind regards,
@SamboJ
"Chasing elder scrolls since 2002."
Founder of Tamriel Fisheries (PC/NA/2015)3 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Could also be someone trying to influence market prices ...
It's even easier to manipulate TTC data as you can easily edit it by hand before it is send to the server for processing ...
Edited by SirAndy on September 11, 2019 3:07AM1 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think the gold sellers/buyers use guild stores. To much of the gold is taken in taxes. So either the seller or buyer will waste gold. It's also odd the size of the stack of items sold. It does seem the seller is up to something, I'm just not sure what.1 -
Spacegato✭✭✭chainlink01 wrote: »I think it's admirable that a guild leader would watch for these activities and handle them accordingly. One annoyance I've noticed frequently(as a buyer) are the one's who post an item at a lower price and then pull it and re-list at twice the price, to manipulate TTC and bring a buyer to their kiosk I can only assume.
Have run in to this problem way to much lately.
Very annoying.1 -
Dont_do_drugs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think the gold sellers/buyers use guild stores. To much of the gold is taken in taxes. So either the seller or buyer will waste gold. It's also odd the size of the stack of items sold. It does seem the seller is up to something, I'm just not sure what.
they use the trader system, definitely.
Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"I have too admit. People leading trade guilds in this game are quite stupid. Not stupid like fools, but stupid like leaders.
They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."
Egal, wie gut du Schach spielst, die Taube wird alle Figuren umwerfen, auf das Brett kacken und herumstolzieren, als hätte sie gewonnen.
Arkadius Trade Tools
Modular framework, now open for authors who want to add own tabs.
My Donation (Arkadius' Trade Tools Addon)
First external ATT tab contribution.
Port to Friend's House Addon
Check out the new Port to Friend's House library and port to contributers houses:
Deutsch | English3 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭It could just be flexing. Like buying something absurdly overpriced because you can.1 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Are player-to-player direct trade transactions are automatically scrutinized, and that is the reason they are using a guild trader despite the huge fees?
I would not expect all transactions are scrutinized but we do know Zos has been interested in finding those who received ill-gotten gold via the recent trader issue. They have taken action against gold duping in the past when it came to light. To think they would turn a blind eye to it or would not be concerned is somewhat absurd as it destabilizes games.
Edit: @ZOS_GinaBruno the information OP has may be of interest for Zos to look into. Maybe a nice PM to them for the unedited SS.
It is not hard for a MMORPG to include code that sales above a certain amount triggers a review of the sales for the seller and buyer.2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Are player-to-player direct trade transactions are automatically scrutinized, and that is the reason they are using a guild trader despite the huge fees?
And why wouldn't they just bid on a trader kiosk in a lousy cheap location and just do all their laundering there instead of risking discovery in this way? By going through a public legit guild you risk your laundering activity showing up in MM and TTC, for starters.
If they are selling gold for real world currency they need a reliable place to make the transfer while minimizing risk of getting caught. If they fail on their bids for a trader they would be left scrambling for a way to make the transfer. Better to join a known trading guild and make the exchanges there hoping they get lost in the volume of other transactions.
The prices are too outrageous and the items too common for it to be price manipulation.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3
