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Looking to make a healer for BGs

Kahmel
Kahmel
Soul Shriven
I've never played many healers and I'm interested in trying one out what class/race/build should i use to be most effective?
  • Hexquisite
    Hexquisite
    ✭✭✭
    Honestly I would just search for a build online, most people on the PvP forums hate healers.
    PC NA
    ~Ethereal Traders Union~
    ~Spicy Economics~


  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Race: Argonian or Breton. Breton has better mag sustain and Argonian has better stamina sustain. Stamina’s more important for keeping yourself alive, magicka’s more important for keeping others alive.

    Class: Templar or Warsen are the best healers. Next tier would be Nightblades and Necros. Worst are DKs and Sorcs.

    Don’t think of yourself as a healer in the pve sense. Think of yourself as the pve equivalent of a tank who also heals others.

    I’d start with 5 heavy, 1M, 1L always all impen. Use one defensive set, one healing set and one sustain set. When you get the hang of it switch to 5L-1M-1H. You won’t learn anything if you’re squishy in a trial by fire build.

    Practice by dueling people with them using ultimates and you using none, once you can survive indefinitely you’re ready for pvp.

    Pvp healing is like being the girl in a Benny Hanna show. If you enjoy frustrating others and being the lynchpin for the group you’ll enjoy it.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 5, 2019 12:46AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Insco851
    Insco851
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Race: Argonian or Breton. Breton has better mag sustain and Argonian has better stamina sustain. Stamina’s more important for keeping yourself alive, magicka’s more important for keeping others alive.

    Class: Templar or Warsen are the best healers. Next tier would be Nightblades and Necros. Worst are DKs and Sorcs.

    Don’t think of yourself as a healer in the pve sense. Think of yourself as the pve equivalent of a tank who also heals others.

    I’d start with 5 heavy, 1M, 1L always all impen. Use one defensive set, one healing set and one sustain set. When you get the hang of it switch to 5L-1M-1H. You won’t learn anything if you’re squishy in a trial by fire build.

    Practice by dueling people with them using ultimates and you using none, once you can survive indefinitely you’re ready for pvp.

    Pvp healing is like being the girl in a Benny Hanna show. If you enjoy frustrating others and being the lynchpin for the group you’ll enjoy it.

    Warden and Necro might be pretty close honestly. Magnecro has some impressive heals. My off heals for my small man are absolutely nuts. The AOE burst heal+hot+purge might be one of the most overlooked skills rn.
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Use a restoration staff.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Race: Argonian or Breton. Breton has better mag sustain and Argonian has better stamina sustain. Stamina’s more important for keeping yourself alive, magicka’s more important for keeping others alive.

    Class: Templar or Warsen are the best healers. Next tier would be Nightblades and Necros. Worst are DKs and Sorcs.

    Don’t think of yourself as a healer in the pve sense. Think of yourself as the pve equivalent of a tank who also heals others.

    I’d start with 5 heavy, 1M, 1L always all impen. Use one defensive set, one healing set and one sustain set. When you get the hang of it switch to 5L-1M-1H. You won’t learn anything if you’re squishy in a trial by fire build.

    Practice by dueling people with them using ultimates and you using none, once you can survive indefinitely you’re ready for pvp.

    Pvp healing is like being the girl in a Benny Hanna show. If you enjoy frustrating others and being the lynchpin for the group you’ll enjoy it.

    Warden and Necro might be pretty close honestly. Magnecro has some impressive heals. My off heals for my small man are absolutely nuts. The AOE burst heal+hot+purge might be one of the most overlooked skills rn.

    Yea necro’s good. Only place they’re lacking is sustain imo. I haven’t played mine in a bit so I don’t know how much those tether changes helped.

    Prior to the patch I would have said NB and Warden were the best, now I’d say Templar and Warden. Warden will always be top tier as long as they have the major mending buff and stamina return passives.

    I’m a NB healer and you don’t have to play the best class to do well. You can make NB, Templar, Warden and Necro work. IDK about DK or Sorc, sorc lacks class heals and for DK cinder is a really small area but they’ll have an easier time being tanky.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 5, 2019 1:56AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Insco851
    Insco851
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Race: Argonian or Breton. Breton has better mag sustain and Argonian has better stamina sustain. Stamina’s more important for keeping yourself alive, magicka’s more important for keeping others alive.

    Class: Templar or Warsen are the best healers. Next tier would be Nightblades and Necros. Worst are DKs and Sorcs.

    Don’t think of yourself as a healer in the pve sense. Think of yourself as the pve equivalent of a tank who also heals others.

    I’d start with 5 heavy, 1M, 1L always all impen. Use one defensive set, one healing set and one sustain set. When you get the hang of it switch to 5L-1M-1H. You won’t learn anything if you’re squishy in a trial by fire build.

    Practice by dueling people with them using ultimates and you using none, once you can survive indefinitely you’re ready for pvp.

    Pvp healing is like being the girl in a Benny Hanna show. If you enjoy frustrating others and being the lynchpin for the group you’ll enjoy it.

    Warden and Necro might be pretty close honestly. Magnecro has some impressive heals. My off heals for my small man are absolutely nuts. The AOE burst heal+hot+purge might be one of the most overlooked skills rn.

    Yea necro’s good. Only place they’re lacking is sustain imo. I haven’t played mine in a bit so I don’t know how much those tether changes helped.

    Prior to the patch I would have said NB and Warden were the best, now I’d say Templar and Warden. Warden will always be top tier as long as they have the major mending buff and stamina return passives.

    Outside 1v1 duels where I can get worn down without a kill, my sustain kinda seems really good on imperial rn. And about 1700 mag recovery. I can spam some heals
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Race: Argonian or Breton. Breton has better mag sustain and Argonian has better stamina sustain. Stamina’s more important for keeping yourself alive, magicka’s more important for keeping others alive.

    Class: Templar or Warsen are the best healers. Next tier would be Nightblades and Necros. Worst are DKs and Sorcs.

    Don’t think of yourself as a healer in the pve sense. Think of yourself as the pve equivalent of a tank who also heals others.

    I’d start with 5 heavy, 1M, 1L always all impen. Use one defensive set, one healing set and one sustain set. When you get the hang of it switch to 5L-1M-1H. You won’t learn anything if you’re squishy in a trial by fire build.

    Practice by dueling people with them using ultimates and you using none, once you can survive indefinitely you’re ready for pvp.

    Pvp healing is like being the girl in a Benny Hanna show. If you enjoy frustrating others and being the lynchpin for the group you’ll enjoy it.

    Warden and Necro might be pretty close honestly. Magnecro has some impressive heals. My off heals for my small man are absolutely nuts. The AOE burst heal+hot+purge might be one of the most overlooked skills rn.

    Yea necro’s good. Only place they’re lacking is sustain imo. I haven’t played mine in a bit so I don’t know how much those tether changes helped.

    Prior to the patch I would have said NB and Warden were the best, now I’d say Templar and Warden. Warden will always be top tier as long as they have the major mending buff and stamina return passives.

    Outside 1v1 duels where I can get worn down without a kill, my sustain kinda seems really good on imperial rn. And about 1700 mag recovery. I can spam some heals
    With CP-enabled, right? In BGs, my Necromancer's sustain is noticeably worse than other classes when having essentially the same stats.

    And yes, I've been saying for a while now that Renewing Undeath is a really nice spell...as long as it doesn't bug out. I don't really have any dedicated healing builds, since I'm almost always solo queueing, but I think Necromancers would generally be behind Templar and Warden for that role. They're certainly not "trash" or anything, but having worse sustain, no class-based healing Ultimate, and worse synergy options make an impact.
  • Insco851
    Insco851
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Race: Argonian or Breton. Breton has better mag sustain and Argonian has better stamina sustain. Stamina’s more important for keeping yourself alive, magicka’s more important for keeping others alive.

    Class: Templar or Warsen are the best healers. Next tier would be Nightblades and Necros. Worst are DKs and Sorcs.

    Don’t think of yourself as a healer in the pve sense. Think of yourself as the pve equivalent of a tank who also heals others.

    I’d start with 5 heavy, 1M, 1L always all impen. Use one defensive set, one healing set and one sustain set. When you get the hang of it switch to 5L-1M-1H. You won’t learn anything if you’re squishy in a trial by fire build.

    Practice by dueling people with them using ultimates and you using none, once you can survive indefinitely you’re ready for pvp.

    Pvp healing is like being the girl in a Benny Hanna show. If you enjoy frustrating others and being the lynchpin for the group you’ll enjoy it.

    Warden and Necro might be pretty close honestly. Magnecro has some impressive heals. My off heals for my small man are absolutely nuts. The AOE burst heal+hot+purge might be one of the most overlooked skills rn.

    Yea necro’s good. Only place they’re lacking is sustain imo. I haven’t played mine in a bit so I don’t know how much those tether changes helped.

    Prior to the patch I would have said NB and Warden were the best, now I’d say Templar and Warden. Warden will always be top tier as long as they have the major mending buff and stamina return passives.

    Outside 1v1 duels where I can get worn down without a kill, my sustain kinda seems really good on imperial rn. And about 1700 mag recovery. I can spam some heals
    With CP-enabled, right? In BGs, my Necromancer's sustain is noticeably worse than other classes when having essentially the same stats.

    And yes, I've been saying for a while now that Renewing Undeath is a really nice spell...as long as it doesn't bug out. I don't really have any dedicated healing builds, since I'm almost always solo queueing, but I think Necromancers would generally be behind Templar and Warden for that role. They're certainly not "trash" or anything, but having worse sustain, no class-based healing Ultimate, and worse synergy options make an impact.

    Bgs as well. I don’t really find a sustain issue rn and I fully expected one considering how rough stam necro was originally for me.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve been meaning to finish off my Magnecro. They’re much improved this patch, my issue is always limited time and wanting to try lots of different things.

    I’m thinking they’re best played throwing out some damage and healing? They look like they’d be a good hybrid class too, mine’s a Nord and I was thinking I’d use the stamina blastbones for Major defile and try and keep both tethers up for good sustain.

    In BGs it’s very noticible how much better a healer is who does some damage than a pure healer. A lot of times dps just need a little push on their target to get a kill. Once you pass 1 million healing a few times, then 1.5 or 2 million I found I stopped playing to boost my stats and moreso to win, I changed up my build to add some damage and my win rate shot up.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 5, 2019 2:39AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I’ve been meaning to finish off my Magnecro. They’re much improved this patch, my issue is always limited time and wanting to try lots of different things.

    I’m thinking they’re best played throwing out some damage and healing? They look like they’d be a good hybrid class too, mine’s a Nord and I was thinking I’d use the stamina blastbones for Major defile and try and keep both tethers up for good sustain.

    In BGs it’s very noticible how much better a healer is who does some damage than a pure healer. A lot of times dps just need a little push on their target to get a kill. Once you pass 1 million healing a few times, then 1.5 or 2 million I found I stopped playing to boost my stats and moreso to win, I changed up my build to add some damage and my win rate shot up.
    The tethers both still suck in most cases in BGs; especially the new Outpost map, where you'll often be breaking LOS with available corpses every few seconds. What they provide just isn't worth the bar space when you consider their limitations (and the bug that causes you to spin 180 degrees and waste a GCD)...even though they don't cost any resources to cast. The only potential exception I could see is if you're in a premade group that will typically be standing their ground alongside you, which means you're probably stomping on solo queued randoms, and may not even need to extra healing and stam regen to begin with.

    Being somewhat split between damage and healing can potentially work well when most everyone is solo queued (especially when a team lacks a dedicated healer), but that's typically not great when it comes to games where every team is a premade. A healer trying to do more than occasionally throw out an execute, Shalks, Purifying Light, etc...will often result in someone's death. Having damage classes that can help supplement a dedicated healer is good, but you can't keep people (especially Magicka builds) up through focus fire without being pretty heavily dedicated to healing.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I’ve been meaning to finish off my Magnecro. They’re much improved this patch, my issue is always limited time and wanting to try lots of different things.

    I’m thinking they’re best played throwing out some damage and healing? They look like they’d be a good hybrid class too, mine’s a Nord and I was thinking I’d use the stamina blastbones for Major defile and try and keep both tethers up for good sustain.

    In BGs it’s very noticible how much better a healer is who does some damage than a pure healer. A lot of times dps just need a little push on their target to get a kill. Once you pass 1 million healing a few times, then 1.5 or 2 million I found I stopped playing to boost my stats and moreso to win, I changed up my build to add some damage and my win rate shot up.
    The tethers both still suck in most cases in BGs; especially the new Outpost map, where you'll often be breaking LOS with available corpses every few seconds. What they provide just isn't worth the bar space when you consider their limitations (and the bug that causes you to spin 180 degrees and waste a GCD)...even though they don't cost any resources to cast. The only potential exception I could see is if you're in a premade group that will typically be standing their ground alongside you, which means you're probably stomping on solo queued randoms, and may not even need to extra healing and stam regen to begin with.

    Being somewhat split between damage and healing can potentially work well when most everyone is solo queued (especially when a team lacks a dedicated healer), but that's typically not great when it comes to games where every team is a premade. A healer trying to do more than occasionally throw out an execute, Shalks, Purifying Light, etc...will often result in someone's death. Having damage classes that can help supplement a dedicated healer is good, but you can't keep people (especially Magicka builds) up through focus fire without being pretty heavily dedicated to healing.

    Good to know. What I generally did was use a resto bar for healing with a back bar flame staff. Use aoes or dots for a bit more team pressure and impale for kill stealing.

    When clashing I’d full heal. I only did damage against runners or if my team disengages and tries to side swipe the other teams when they clash. 100% agreed when it’s time to heal, you’re healing all the time.

    Is there a point in leveling a Magnecro for BGs since it’s no-CP? People are giving conflicting opinions.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 9, 2019 4:09AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • susmitds
    susmitds
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Please don't. Matches with healers are straight up unbalanced and makes things way too slow-placed to be fun.

    Also, usually RNG decides who gets a healer and who does not.

    When only one group has healer, it pretty much decides the winner, especially now that Vigor and stam cross-healing is dead.
    When two groups has healers, it makes for a very bad experience for the third team, when they keep getting spawn camped, if they don't sneak away.
    If all three teams gets healers, killing anybody becomes a pain. These are the matches where it is usually stretches the entire duration with every team on low scores, cause nobody dies.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I’ve been meaning to finish off my Magnecro. They’re much improved this patch, my issue is always limited time and wanting to try lots of different things.

    I’m thinking they’re best played throwing out some damage and healing? They look like they’d be a good hybrid class too, mine’s a Nord and I was thinking I’d use the stamina blastbones for Major defile and try and keep both tethers up for good sustain.

    In BGs it’s very noticible how much better a healer is who does some damage than a pure healer. A lot of times dps just need a little push on their target to get a kill. Once you pass 1 million healing a few times, then 1.5 or 2 million I found I stopped playing to boost my stats and moreso to win, I changed up my build to add some damage and my win rate shot up.
    The tethers both still suck in most cases in BGs; especially the new Outpost map, where you'll often be breaking LOS with available corpses every few seconds. What they provide just isn't worth the bar space when you consider their limitations (and the bug that causes you to spin 180 degrees and waste a GCD)...even though they don't cost any resources to cast. The only potential exception I could see is if you're in a premade group that will typically be standing their ground alongside you, which means you're probably stomping on solo queued randoms, and may not even need to extra healing and stam regen to begin with.

    Being somewhat split between damage and healing can potentially work well when most everyone is solo queued (especially when a team lacks a dedicated healer), but that's typically not great when it comes to games where every team is a premade. A healer trying to do more than occasionally throw out an execute, Shalks, Purifying Light, etc...will often result in someone's death. Having damage classes that can help supplement a dedicated healer is good, but you can't keep people (especially Magicka builds) up through focus fire without being pretty heavily dedicated to healing.

    Good to know. What I generally did was use a resto bar for healing with a back bar flame staff. Use aoes or dots for a bit more team pressure and impale for kill stealing.

    When clashing I’d full heal. I only did damage against runners or if my team disengages and tries to side swipe the other teams when they clash. 100% agreed when it’s time to heal, you’re healing all the time.

    Is there a point in leveling a Magnecro for BGs since it’s no-CP? People are giving conflicting opinions.
    I haven't really tried playing as a dedicated healer on Mag Necro this patch, but do a lot of off-healing some games. The class has some good heal and support skills, but sustain is a problem. Given virtually identical stats, I have to heavy attack (with a Resto Staff) quite a bit more than I did on Templar or Warden.

    In a damage/healing hybrid role, I think Magicka Necromancer is decent. Not amazing, but certainly a lot better than it was before Scalebreaker (at which time the class' offense was hot, liquid garbage). ZOS has said they're going to be nerfing DOTs next patch, which doesn't look good for Mag Necro offense in the future, depending on exactly how big the nerfs are and what else gets changed. Currently, the class absolutely relies on the "generic" Magicka DOTs in order to have passable offense (which isn't actually passable against premades that aren't terrible).
    susmitds wrote: »
    Please don't. Matches with healers are straight up unbalanced and makes things way too slow-placed to be fun.

    Also, usually RNG decides who gets a healer and who does not.

    When only one group has healer, it pretty much decides the winner, especially now that Vigor and stam cross-healing is dead.
    When two groups has healers, it makes for a very bad experience for the third team, when they keep getting spawn camped, if they don't sneak away.
    If all three teams gets healers, killing anybody becomes a pain. These are the matches where it is usually stretches the entire duration with every team on low scores, cause nobody dies.
    I got in a Deathmatch game a few days ago where one team was a full premade, and each of the others had a dedicated healer (the one on my team was duo queued with a DPS). The score at the end, after a 15 minute time-out, was 90-60-45.

    There are a few caveats worth mentioning for that game, though: My team was stuck at 3 players for most of the match, and I was on a Magicka Necromancer, which is probably the worst class to be in that situation. The generic magicka DOTs are fairly worthless then, and the rest of my damage options are too unreliable. With voice comms for coordination, the Colossus Ultimate can be really strong...but I was solo queued, which means it'll tend to be mostly nullified by dodge roll.
  • Kahmel
    Kahmel
    Soul Shriven
    I totally forgot about this thread lol
    Thanks everyone for the replies I now understand how annoying healers can be after playing quite a few BGs and I'd like to change the question to if I'm paired against an obvious 4-man premade where it's not feasibly possible to get 1st place would it be worth it to have a healer gear swap and try to keep my team alive while going for 2nd place or should I not even bother and stick with my current magblade damage setup in this situation?
  • Luckylancer
    Luckylancer
    ✭✭✭
    I suggest you 2 5piece sets, 1 monster helmet and a black rose staff(very good in small scale pvp).
    Example: pariah, warclock(destro bar), trollking, brp heal staff
    You back bar 1 5pc set.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kahmel wrote: »
    I totally forgot about this thread lol
    Thanks everyone for the replies I now understand how annoying healers can be after playing quite a few BGs and I'd like to change the question to if I'm paired against an obvious 4-man premade where it's not feasibly possible to get 1st place would it be worth it to have a healer gear swap and try to keep my team alive while going for 2nd place or should I not even bother and stick with my current magblade damage setup in this situation?

    Just keep at it. Healing in BGs gets better.

    In starter BGs healing can be discouraging because there are so many new players who are still learning, you’ll feel like healing them is a waste of time because they’ll die anyways or run off doing their own thing.

    When you get a higher MMR ranking it gets better. Your team mates will be competent so healing them won’t feel like a waste of time.

    There’s also nothing magic about premades that make them win, you can beat them.

    PvP is odd in this game, the average PvPer isn’t very good and it takes a lot of practice to get better. If you keep at it people will use more than solo specs and it gets more interesting. Your average pvper is like above, ‘I don’t like healers because I keep losing’ in purely solo specs and will never get better. A lot of players keep pvping and getting rolled and blame everyone/everything else, but in reality the reason why is solo specs suck in BGs if a healer’s around but most people prefer them.

    I’d also look at playing with friends and starting your own premade group. It used to be that you could do really well solo queuing but that’s sort of changed, burst is up so coordination became more important. I used to solo queue and come up against premades all the time with a 50%+ win rate but it’s a lot harder this patch, I much prefer premades to exclude dead weight this patch... well at least as a magblade healer, but we took heavy nerfs this patch.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 10, 2019 3:22PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • tsaescishoeshiner
    tsaescishoeshiner
    ✭✭✭
    I think the best mix of damage and healing is to use a high-impact damage ult. Necros lead in this with Glacial Colossus, though Warden's Permafrost, Meteor, or Dawnbreaker also work, and can single-handedly flip a fight with te right preparation. (Destro ult too if you have enough damage or a good AoE stun)

    You can prolong the fight with heals, then drop soul-splitting trap and combat prayer into a high-damage ult to flip the tables while your team can deal damage freely

    This is nice because if you ONLY heal, you're screwed if your group is weak on damage. Unlike in PvE, Regeneration, Combat Prayer, and a third/fourth heal-over-time, burst heal, or support skill are enough to make a big difference. The rest of your bar can be the same as a non-healer build - you'll just spend more time healing.

    Edit: a word
    Edited by tsaescishoeshiner on September 12, 2019 11:56PM
    PC-NA
    Looking for a crafter to make Elsweyr Shrines, Elsweyr Platforms, and Elsweyr Towers - can provide mats & tip. Still need: Elsweyr Shrines, Elsweyr Platforms, Elsweyr Tower.
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the best mix of damage and healing is to use a high-impact damage ult. Necros lead in this with Glacial Colossus, though Warden's Permafrost, Meteor, or Dawnbreaker also work, and can single-handedly flip a fight with te right preparation. (Destro ult too if you have enough damage or a good AoE stun)

    You can prolong the fight with heals, then drop soul-splitting trap and combat prayer into a high-damage ult to flip the tables while your team can deal damage freely

    This is nice because if you ONLY heal, you're screwed if your group is weak on damage. Unlike in PvE, Regeneration, Combat Prayer, and a third/fourth heal-over-time, burst heal, or support skill are enough to make a big difference. The rest of your bar can be the same as a non-healer build - you'll just spend more time healing.

    Edit: a word

    Yea, this is 100% true, I agree completely. That's where NBs used to be good too, soul siphon was more then just healing. It was an anti-ult dump ultimate. When an opposing team ult dumped Soul Siphon was great to hit, it healed everyone plus gave a synergy people could use to go on the offensive.

    The cast being interruptible really killed the ability in pvp. It's too bad, otherwise I'd have said NB was competitive with Warden and Templar but I think they've fallen behind.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • chrightt
    chrightt
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    If you want something fun play an extremely off meta BG magsorc build, since most healers aren’t sorc. With surge’s new morph actually healing quite a bit with a large radius, it is possible to use your restoration staff abilities to consistently proc surge off CD. Dark conversion also gives 20s minor prophecy buff to help (due to passive) you and your teammates while refilling your magicka and health. This helps you spam hardened ward for your teammates to keep them above execution range. You can also efficiently use streak to run away, making you the most mobile healer in BG. It actually is quite fun. Oh, on a side note, matriarch is runnable as BG healer build.

    Front bar: Inferno staff (infused)
    Suggested skills: structured entropy, elemental drain, lightning form, power surge, matriarch

    Back bar: resto staff (defending)
    Suggested skills: radiating regeneration, hardened ward, healing ward, streak, matriach (resto ultimate).

    Dark conversion is a good tech option for any skill you don’t like on the list. If you don’t want to run the pet another option would be to swap in dark conversion in back bar and an offensive skill on front bar. If you want dark conversion without replacing pet I would probably replace elemental drain especially if your team doesn’t have that many mag toons (also streak’s bar can be swapped to front bar.)

    You turn into a more support role but the cool thing about magsorc healer is the fact that you’re able to fully utilize healing ward by shield stacking so that you actually get decent values off it while pushing people out of execute range (especially with surge). Of course, the other big selling point is streaming away so your enemies can’t touch you.
    Edited by chrightt on September 13, 2019 4:54AM
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Would using the Transmutation set be a good idea for BGs?

    I've been thinking about getting into BGs for a long time (never touched them yet), but other things got in the way and I ended up sticking to Cyro for the time being.
    (and now I'm not PvPing at all for a while, but that's a completely different story...)

    Back when I used to main a largescale healer in Cyro, I was using the Transmutation set - and in that context it was very good group/team utility, since that's a lot of extra crit resistance floating around :)

    But I'm not sure if Transmutation would be actually worthwhile to use in the context of BGs.
    From what I've seen so far, it's quite unpopular in Cyrodiil - only ever saw a few players using it, which makes me begin to doubt its actual utility.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Would using the Transmutation set be a good idea for BGs?

    I've been thinking about getting into BGs for a long time (never touched them yet), but other things got in the way and I ended up sticking to Cyro for the time being.
    (and now I'm not PvPing at all for a while, but that's a completely different story...)

    Back when I used to main a largescale healer in Cyro, I was using the Transmutation set - and in that context it was very good group/team utility, since that's a lot of extra crit resistance floating around :)

    But I'm not sure if Transmutation would be actually worthwhile to use in the context of BGs.
    From what I've seen so far, it's quite unpopular in Cyrodiil - only ever saw a few players using it, which makes me begin to doubt its actual utility.

    It’s the best healing BG set hands down. I’ve tried quite a few and always go back to Transmutation.

    As for cyrodiil, I guess it depends who you run with. I don’t like talking strategies in Cyro but my guild never enters Cyrodiil without it - CP or non-CP doesn’t matter.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 13, 2019 4:58PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Ah, ok, so that confirms my suspicion that it's actually a very good set, in fact AFAIK the only good PvP-only healing 5pc buff set :)

    Of course that raises another question... since it's so good, why is it so underutilized in Cyrodiil? :/
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Ah, ok, so that confirms my suspicion that it's actually a very good set, in fact AFAIK the only good PvP-only healing 5pc buff set :)

    Of course that raises another question... since it's so good, why is it so underutilized in Cyrodiil? :/

    Well Cyrodiil is populated by different groups with different perspectives on the game:

    Solo players - why would I wear a set that might benefit someone else
    Small Group - trans is great
    Large Group - trans is great

    Opinions always boil down to the setting people play in.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Transmutation is meta for healing (my opinion).
    Easy to apply, adds sustain, the 4th and 5th pieces don't need to be active on both bars, and it gives your teammates that "warm fuzzy feeling".

    Your monster set depends largely on the group (i.e. Bogdan is great when teammates are not playing Rambo all over the map).

    Your other set will come down to what you need specifically (i.e. Pariah or Swift are great for even more defense).
    Edited by brandonv516 on September 14, 2019 12:19AM
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Solo players - why would I wear a set that might benefit someone else
    Ahhh, it all makes sense now, of course - in my faction, it appears that the majority consists of "solo" players :trollface:

    In Cyro, Bogdan is great for healing ram operators, because everyone is already stacked pretty tightly on the ram. Same for flag flippers, if there are still any oils pouring on them.

    On the build I mentioned, I was running 5pc Julianos heavy (as a "filler"), which was a mixed bag. Survivability was decent because of the extra resists, offensive stats were OK, but sustain was garbage - IIRC I had ~1.5k mag recovery, which is quite a bit too low for a dedicated healer/support build.

    Actually, my end goal was to run Transmutation + SPC, but I failed to get around to farming SPC before other things happened, so I never got to test that out before the Scalebreaker healing changes.

    It was a pure healing/support build for largescale (no damage output except for an execute), so wearing 2 support/healing sets would work OK - since I was relying on magsorc's high mobility and using allies as meatshields, which was working quite well in practice :)
    But of course in BGs that kind of stunt would never work, for obvious reasons. Without at least 1 def set you would be well and thoroughly hosed.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Solo players - why would I wear a set that might benefit someone else
    Ahhh, it all makes sense now, of course - in my faction, it appears that the majority consists of "solo" players :trollface:

    In Cyro, Bogdan is great for healing ram operators, because everyone is already stacked pretty tightly on the ram. Same for flag flippers, if there are still any oils pouring on them.

    On the build I mentioned, I was running 5pc Julianos heavy (as a "filler"), which was a mixed bag. Survivability was decent because of the extra resists, offensive stats were OK, but sustain was garbage - IIRC I had ~1.5k mag recovery, which is quite a bit too low for a dedicated healer/support build.

    Actually, my end goal was to run Transmutation + SPC, but I failed to get around to farming SPC before other things happened, so I never got to test that out before the Scalebreaker healing changes.

    It was a pure healing/support build for largescale (no damage output except for an execute), so wearing 2 support/healing sets would work OK - since I was relying on magsorc's high mobility and using allies as meatshields, which was working quite well in practice :)
    But of course in BGs that kind of stunt would never work, for obvious reasons. Without at least 1 def set you would be well and thoroughly hosed.

    Yea, don’t skimp on defense, especially not as a pvp healer.

    Best way to cheaply get a defensive set is buffer of the swift. You can get all the pieces you need (and more) from Cyrodiil at the Cropsford vendor. I think I got everything I wanted with the traits I wanted for ~300K AP.

    I also found defense more important in Cyrodiil than BGs. Lag causes health desyncs that are uncounterable without extra survivability. The other day I was riding my horse and went from 100 to 0 health. I wondered what happened and my death recap said 3x snipes and a weapon proc, all desynced to hit at once.

    The ‘standard’ BG setup I’d say is Transmutation + Swift/Pariah + Bloodspawn in 5L-1M-1H like Brandon said.

    In Cyrodiil in small scale/large scale things get more interesting with more build variety. There everything’s ‘secret’ which makes for guild styles. Some guilds say X amount of health min, some will say use X ultimate, whatever. Point is people evolve to adapt to those they play with so you get a ton of build variety no one talks about.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 14, 2019 4:12AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I also found defense more important in Cyrodiil than BGs. Lag causes health desyncs that are uncounterable without extra survivability. The other day I was riding my horse and went from 100 to 0 health. I wondered what happened and my death recap said 3x snipes and a weapon proc, all desynced to hit at once.
    I was also running into the health desync problem a lot, but from a different source - invisible siege damage. (invisible projectiles and AoE telegraphs not showing)

    TBH, this is a ZOS problem, because of poor coding - not a build or L2P problem.
    How am I supposed to avoid taking heavy damage - intended to be easily avoidable by being highly telegraphed - if there's no telegraph whatsoever? :#
    Same for snipe health desync, it's a gamebreaking bug and should not be happening in the first place.

    Sure, you can build tankier to work around the issue... but then at some point you cease being a useful healer and become just that, a tank.

    At least in that particular use case, most of the time my allies were pretty quick to notice that they no longer have the Transmutation buff, and would rez me in short order :)
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I also found defense more important in Cyrodiil than BGs. Lag causes health desyncs that are uncounterable without extra survivability. The other day I was riding my horse and went from 100 to 0 health. I wondered what happened and my death recap said 3x snipes and a weapon proc, all desynced to hit at once.
    I was also running into the health desync problem a lot, but from a different source - invisible siege damage. (invisible projectiles and AoE telegraphs not showing)

    TBH, this is a ZOS problem, because of poor coding - not a build or L2P problem.
    How am I supposed to avoid taking heavy damage - intended to be easily avoidable by being highly telegraphed - if there's no telegraph whatsoever? :#
    Same for snipe health desync, it's a gamebreaking bug and should not be happening in the first place.

    Sure, you can build tankier to work around the issue... but then at some point you cease being a useful healer and become just that, a tank.

    At least in that particular use case, most of the time my allies were pretty quick to notice that they no longer have the Transmutation buff, and would rez me in short order :)

    True but you have to work with what you have.

    PvP also has different roles than PvE. Healers are moreso tanks than healers.

    What you want to do is put your opponents in a difficult position. If they attack you they’re attacking a tanky target that will require a lot of work to take down. If they attack your team mates you’ll heal them so they can’t kill the person very easily... which is why most pvp healers hate glass canon pvp builds, they die so fast you can’t heal them.

    As an aside PvP tanks usually rely on disruption to be effective, not being ‘killable’ isn’t effective in itself because there’s no taunt and they can be ignored, so they want to be annoying or be debuffing enough to be a target or punish opponents for ignoring them.

    So as you face better opponents as a healer you’ll move up the priority list as a target, you sort of have to invest in defense. Otherwise it’s an easy decision for your opponents - take you down first. That’s why I said PvP healing’s fun if you like frustrating people and it feels like you’re the girl in a Benny Hanna show.

    Edited by Iskiab on September 14, 2019 4:34AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Yep, it works quite different in a smallscale context.
    A few times I took that build for a spin with some of my smallscaling friends - it ended quite poorly, as you would expect.
    The build I was using was far from optimized - but really it was an issue of trying to use it completely outside of its intended application, and no amount of optimization can help with that.

    In largescale combat, I never ceased to be impressed how often the enemies just ignored the healer (me) entirely, instead choosing the worst possible targets to fight - my buffed-up allies.
    This was probably because I was on a pure support/healing build, so they perceived me as "not a threat" because I was not attacking them? Logic??? :D
    Iskiab wrote: »
    most pvp healers hate glass canon pvp builds, they die so fast you can’t heal them.
    Yep, that was quite an issue in my largescale healing experience.
    Especially the randoms - it felt like half of them were using PvE gear and/or no PvP abilities, since under any real pressure they were melting faster than snowballs in Hell, and no amount of my healing would help with that. No damage output to write home about, either.
    So in that case I guess they weren't "glass cannons", but just "glass" :D
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Yep, it works quite different in a smallscale context.
    A few times I took that build for a spin with some of my smallscaling friends - it ended quite poorly, as you would expect.
    The build I was using was far from optimized - but really it was an issue of trying to use it completely outside of its intended application, and no amount of optimization can help with that.

    In largescale combat, I never ceased to be impressed how often the enemies just ignored the healer (me) entirely, instead choosing the worst possible targets to fight - my buffed-up allies.
    This was probably because I was on a pure support/healing build, so they perceived me as "not a threat" because I was not attacking them? Logic??? :D
    Iskiab wrote: »
    most pvp healers hate glass canon pvp builds, they die so fast you can’t heal them.
    Yep, that was quite an issue in my largescale healing experience.
    Especially the randoms - it felt like half of them were using PvE gear and/or no PvP abilities, since under any real pressure they were melting faster than snowballs in Hell, and no amount of my healing would help with that. No damage output to write home about, either.
    So in that case I guess they weren't "glass cannons", but just "glass" :D

    Most PvErs think along the PvE thinking where it’s ‘sacrifice 5k HPS if I can get an extra .00001 dps because I’m a dps and not a healer’ which is terrible in pvp. There should be a ‘is impenetrable worth it because I can get 1% more dps in all divines’ thread due because one pops up every month.

    For small scale all I’d say is cross healing is crazy important. Mag tankiness is down this patch so a 2 player Ult dump will down you, cross healing this patch is really important.

    Defence is important because people will try to gank you non-stop, invest just enough in defense so one player’s burst or a gank won’t kill you. I’m pretty vocal about gankers being weak and I haven’t been successfully ganked in over 6 months in this game so I get at least two attempts a night against me, all failures but they’ll keep coming I’m sure. One trick is most gankers look at health pools before choosing a target, aim for at least 23k health, preferably 25k+.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 14, 2019 5:32AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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