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Is the Werewolf time limit really necessary?
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mann9753b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I mean, let be real here, does the Werewolf really feel like an Ultimate?
Not really, Most other Ultimates in the game give you a big beneftit, a great heal, a ton of burst, evasion etc...
The Werewolf Ult feels more like a Weapon swap than anything else.
You get the Werewolf passives, but you lose weapon passives, and the overall performance of a Werewolf isnt better than the performance of any DPS class. You do better singel target, but you are almost useless when it comes to AoE.
And I like that part, I never thought that the Werewolf should be some OP thing. I like it to be in line with other DPS classes, as it is right now.
But honestly, neither the high cost nor the time limit are justified.
You give up one Ultimate for a third skill bar, that should be the Deal. Either make it expensive or give it a time limit (since the transformation already snares you, having to transform again is already a drawback).
I would say either reduce the cost of the Ultimate or get rid of the time limit.2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kuramas9tails wrote: »First and foremost.......
It's an ultimate ability.
It has a timer for a reason. I personally believe that if you die in a werewolf form, your ultimate should be gone. You should not be able to res as a werewolf.
They don't do that with Bears.
I think they should stick with the timer ... 15 minutes or the pizza is free
wait... that might not be the right timer
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, let be real here, does the Werewolf really feel like an Ultimate?
Not really, Most other Ultimates in the game give you a big beneftit, a great heal, a ton of burst, evasion etc...
The Werewolf Ult feels more like a Weapon swap than anything else.
You get the Werewolf passives, but you lose weapon passives, and the overall performance of a Werewolf isnt better than the performance of any DPS class. You do better singel target, but you are almost useless when it comes to AoE.
And I like that part, I never thought that the Werewolf should be some OP thing. I like it to be in line with other DPS classes, as it is right now.
But honestly, neither the high cost nor the time limit are justified.
You give up one Ultimate for a third skill bar, that should be the Deal. Either make it expensive or give it a time limit (since the transformation already snares you, having to transform again is already a drawback).
I would say either reduce the cost of the Ultimate or get rid of the time limit.
@Chrlynsch what?0 -
pknecron✭✭✭No, it breaks WW form as it is implemented now. You can't even slow down for a second, can't talk to quest-givers or NPC's, can't even stop to see what drops you just had, or anything that slows down killing and feeding. Hell, if you are in a public dungeon and another group has passed through just before you, it is easy to run out of mobs to keep WW form up.
If they want to keep the timer, they need to do one of two things: increase it to 3 to 5 minutes per ultimate, or allow ultimate to be earned while fighting in WW form, and or reduce the ultimate cost drastically.
Frankly there are more than enough draw-backs to WW to make up for the timer, and the best course of action would be to make it a toggle. Maybe add criminal elements for using it while in town.Edited by pknecron on May 11, 2019 11:39AM2 -
Pennylong✭✭✭I think it's fine as it is personally. The mechanic works well I think, it can be a mini game in itself trying to fill the meter and stay in wolf form and changing it would ruin that.0 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭WW needs a timer, but I think it should stop when your character stops moving. Think of it like a 'resting' state.
That way WW can read quest dialogue. Also, and more importantly, you don't feel like an *** as you run ahead of group in a dungeon to go nibble on somebody because your timer is running low. If timer stopped when you stopped as you enter a resting state, the group can catch up and you can also read / listen to quest dialogue.2 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honestly in my opinion, I say, yes and no. Something like a 5-to-10 min timer.
Allow feeding to extend it (15 seconds), but no longer then 10 minutes max. So effectively it would be a "permanent" in a pseudo sense, long as their bodies to keep the timer capped.Edited by StormeReigns on May 11, 2019 2:30PM0 -
Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭ZOS doesn't want more money, that's why they keep the timer in PvE.
They don't want me to resub and buy the chapters.2 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭I maxed the character i was so excited about to 50, he was going to be my werewolf, i got my golded bloodmoon, golded perfect relequen, kena, i tried to do the pledge vLoM, and i had to swap characters in the middle of it, i hated it, stupid timmer ruins it completely, i want to delete that character now.
Just let us be perma WW, Or put it on battle spirit1 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭WW needs a timer, but I think it should stop when your character stops moving. Think of it like a 'resting' state.
That way WW can read quest dialogue. Also, and more importantly, you don't feel like an *** as you run ahead of group in a dungeon to go nibble on somebody because your timer is running low. If timer stopped when you stopped as you enter a resting state, the group can catch up and you can also read / listen to quest dialogue.
Make this happen please0 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Werewolf would be fine if not the lag and loading screens and bugs. Nerfs are annoying but nerfs happen in MMO.
Only WW nerf I find unfair was the bug of WW not being able to feed after going thru door was fixed was "fixed" by making WW lose form. Assuming it is a nerf and not programmer incompetence. Also recently thieves troves are not usable any more in WW form, I assume that is a bug.Edited by rpa on September 5, 2019 5:02AM0 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭Werewolf would be fine if not the lag and loading screens and bugs. Nerfs are annoying but nerfs happen in MMO.
Only WW nerf I find unfair was the bug of WW not being able to feed after going thru door was fixed was "fixed" by making WW lose form. Assuming it is a nerf and not programmer incompetence. Also recently thieves troves are not usable any more in WW form, I assume that is a bug.
OP wasnt complaining about the WW nerf, he is complaining for his werewolf transformation running out because of waiting for the NPC to finish talking, or the stupid boss to finish introducing himself1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tbh. After what ZOS has done to WW in Scalebreker (in short: made Pack Leader useless in all types of content, and WW Berserker got its dmg reduced more or less by 30% adding 25% more expensive skills and a very costly & unefficient heal on top).
I do belive that removing ww timer would help. In dungeons ww is lacking dmg anyway vs other non-ww builds (30 - 40% less dmg on a target dummy) and on top of that you have to play this "eat-a-corpse" time trial mini-game.
As for PvP - ww is supposed to be mobile, but it is lacking CC immunity buff & purge skill, making it quite useless. Especially in current dot spam meta. Also it is no longer able to put presure on highly armoured targets as bleeds mechanics was changed.
The point is - WW is the most expensive ultimate in game and at the same time probably the worst one / most useless one as it "locks" you with a preset of skills, without access to other stuff you would normally have. WW toolkit is simply far too limited to justify 300 ulti cost.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on September 5, 2019 6:14AM2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »tbh. After what ZOS has done to WW in Scalebreker (in short: made Pack Leader useless in all types of content, and WW Berserker got its dmg reduced more or less by 30% adding 25% more expensive skills and a very costly & unefficient heal on top).
I do belive that removing ww timer would help. In dungeons ww is lacking dmg anyway vs other non-ww builds (30 - 40% less dmg on a target dummy) and on top of that you have to play this "eat-a-corpse" time trial mini-game.
As for PvP - ww is supposed to be mobile, but it is lacking CC immunity buff & purge skill, making it quite useless. Especially in current dot spam meta. Also it is no longer able to put presure on highly armoured targets as bleeds mechanics was changed.
The point is - WW is the most expensive ultimate in game and at the same time probably the worst one / most useless one as it "locks" you with a preset of skills, without access to other stuff you would normally have. WW toolkit is simply far too limited to justify 300 ulti cost.
Exactly.
Werewolf no longer gives you any type of advantage, as the damage is less than what is possible in regular form from any class, the new "utility" is redundant and unwanted in groups and trials, and the healing is no longer efficient. And since you can't purge, you are a sitting duck in PvP with the new DOT meta.
Werewolf has been reduced to nothing more than a timed doggie dress up for role players.2 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Werewolf would be fine if not the lag and loading screens and bugs. Nerfs are annoying but nerfs happen in MMO.
Only WW nerf I find unfair was the bug of WW not being able to feed after going thru door was fixed was "fixed" by making WW lose form. Assuming it is a nerf and not programmer incompetence. Also recently thieves troves are not usable any more in WW form, I assume that is a bug.
OP wasnt complaining about the WW nerf, he is complaining for his werewolf transformation running out because of waiting for the NPC to finish talking, or the stupid boss to finish introducing himself
Well my point was keeping WW form is not that difficult if game did not glue player on floor with timer ticking or just remove WW for no reason other than lag, bug or bad design.
Expensive ultimate and not earning more in WW form would be fine enforcing player to keep form if the game did not put stick in spokes. One of my favorite game memories was eating most of Skyrim bandit and forsworn population in one run. (If I remember right that game also had WW not being able to use doors, which was rather disappointing.)
Edited by rpa on September 5, 2019 7:55AM0 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?1 -
TiZzA93✭✭✭Im all for making permawolf on a few conditions:
1. Permawolf cannot b active in any pvp environment.
2. They make WW part of the justice system.
3. NEW WEREWOLF SKINS2 -
Mannix1958✭✭✭✭mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »Staying in WW-form regardless of PvE or PvP is a L2P issue.
Oh wise gamer god, who gave me the wisdom of "Git Gud"....
I have no problem staying in WW Form if I decide to ignore literally all content beside "FIGHT FEED FIGHT FEED FIGHT FEED!" and if you had taken the time to actually READ my post, you would have noticed that.
But I guess the desire to just say "L2P" is just too big...
I just don't consider reading ingame conversations with NPC´s and reading lorebooks as a werewolf has higher priority over combat balance.
Werewolves aren't always just bloodthirsty killing machines. One time I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand, walking through the streets of SoHo in the rain.
Great reference! Waaaa-oooEdited by Mannix1958 on September 5, 2019 9:37AM1 -
wolfbone✭✭✭✭✭as a proud werewolf, I disagree. if there was no time limit, cyrodill would be a mess, bg's would be terrible. the land would be full of ye olde werewolf packs.
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P2 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P
Complain? I`m the one creating this discusion?
As long as they keep changes only cosmetics i`m fine.
WW dont need overbuffs like perma form and sh,t.
The last thing i want to see is towns full of dogs.
Ult is fast to build.
And seems you are the one who need dose of l2p.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P
Complain? I`m the one creating this discusion?
As long as they keep changes only cosmetics i`m fine.
WW dont need overbuffs like perma form and sh,t.
The last thing i want to see is towns full of dogs.
Ult is fast to build.
And seems you are the one who need dose of l2p.
Werewolf need so many buffs to be viable at the moment (pvp) that I would need to make an entirely new thread to fit all improvements needed.......3 -
runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
False.mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »like i said, you never run out of time when you only have to fight anyway.
The only time the timer really matters is in PvE
Even WW need to kite.
Dont ask for silly things. Or ZoS will please you with endless ww form but will nerf everything else to the ground.
Both WW and Vamps are fine.
Be glad you dont take extra poison dmg in human form as vamps do ...
That would ruin werewolves. The good thing about werewolves is when you are human form nothing in your character is different. Not like Vampires where you get the effects all the time (for good or for bad.) This one thinks if you make it so you take extra poison damage while in human form it ruins one of the good aspects of the ability. Making is so you can some of the debuffs without any buffs in Human Form is ludicrous.Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."0 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P
Complain? I`m the one creating this discusion?
As long as they keep changes only cosmetics i`m fine.
WW dont need overbuffs like perma form and sh,t.
The last thing i want to see is towns full of dogs.
Ult is fast to build.
And seems you are the one who need dose of l2p.
Werewolf need so many buffs to be viable at the moment (pvp) that I would need to make an entirely new thread to fit all improvements needed.......
You mean YOU need buffs to be viable WW.
Seems we play diferent pvp.
If you dont play pvp, you can stil check yotube.
WW is with the most 1vX clips there.
0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P
Complain? I`m the one creating this discusion?
As long as they keep changes only cosmetics i`m fine.
WW dont need overbuffs like perma form and sh,t.
The last thing i want to see is towns full of dogs.
Ult is fast to build.
And seems you are the one who need dose of l2p.
Werewolf need so many buffs to be viable at the moment (pvp) that I would need to make an entirely new thread to fit all improvements needed.......
You mean YOU need buffs to be viable WW.
Seems we play diferent pvp.
If you dont play pvp, you can stil check yotube.
WW is with the most 1vX clips there.
I've mained werewolf in PvP since thieves guild, so yes I do play PvP with it. And werewolf has never been a good 1vX tool against semi decent players. Werewolfs has been really good for group play, but not as good for solo pvp
And out of curiosity, feel free to link what YouTube videos you've in mind, because I check YouTube on a regular basis for werewolf pvp content and I've yet to see any real evidence of godlike 1vX clips (excluding murkmire patch with bugged enchants) with werewolf. Most content creators that released werewolf videos have stopped doing so since long ago.1 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P
Complain? I`m the one creating this discusion?
As long as they keep changes only cosmetics i`m fine.
WW dont need overbuffs like perma form and sh,t.
The last thing i want to see is towns full of dogs.
Ult is fast to build.
And seems you are the one who need dose of l2p.
Werewolf need so many buffs to be viable at the moment (pvp) that I would need to make an entirely new thread to fit all improvements needed.......
You mean YOU need buffs to be viable WW.
Seems we play diferent pvp.
If you dont play pvp, you can stil check yotube.
WW is with the most 1vX clips there.
I've mained werewolf in PvP since thieves guild, so yes I do play PvP with it. And werewolf has never been a good 1vX tool against semi decent players. Werewolfs has been really good for group play, but not as good for solo pvp
And out of curiosity, feel free to link what YouTube videos you've in mind, because I check YouTube on a regular basis for werewolf pvp content and I've yet to see any real evidence of godlike 1vX clips (excluding murkmire patch with bugged enchants) with werewolf. Most content creators that released werewolf videos have stopped doing so since long ago.
mained=/= good with it/ not always.
and ww is more than viable now. i dont see why you guys want it overbuffed and then nerfed to the ground ?
because that will happen.1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »I mean, lets be real, in combat you wont run out of time anyway. Be it PvE or PvP, the amount of time you get back from all your abilities and passives will make sure that you will always stay in WW unless you dont want to.
The only thing the time limit really does, is to make sure you cant read any quest-texts, cant watch events or do anything but rush from one mob to another. When you run a new dungeon first time as a werewolf you have no chance to actually enjoy the quest, especially when it includes events.
And cmone, while Werewolfs are strong fighters, they come with enough drawbacks to balance it out, there is really no reason for them to be so time-gated.
You are troll or just cant kill anyone outside ww form?
WW is damn strong. Should be nerfed not buffed.
Immortal in pve. Nearly unkilable in pvp. Big duck dps, cc and heal.
Wth you want more?
Auoto pilot?
If you complain about werewolf in scalebreaker you're trash at the game and need a large dose of L2P
Complain? I`m the one creating this discusion?
As long as they keep changes only cosmetics i`m fine.
WW dont need overbuffs like perma form and sh,t.
The last thing i want to see is towns full of dogs.
Ult is fast to build.
And seems you are the one who need dose of l2p.
Werewolf need so many buffs to be viable at the moment (pvp) that I would need to make an entirely new thread to fit all improvements needed.......
You mean YOU need buffs to be viable WW.
Seems we play diferent pvp.
If you dont play pvp, you can stil check yotube.
WW is with the most 1vX clips there.
I've mained werewolf in PvP since thieves guild, so yes I do play PvP with it. And werewolf has never been a good 1vX tool against semi decent players. Werewolfs has been really good for group play, but not as good for solo pvp
And out of curiosity, feel free to link what YouTube videos you've in mind, because I check YouTube on a regular basis for werewolf pvp content and I've yet to see any real evidence of godlike 1vX clips (excluding murkmire patch with bugged enchants) with werewolf. Most content creators that released werewolf videos have stopped doing so since long ago.
mained=/= good with it/ not always.
and ww is more than viable now. i dont see why you guys want it overbuffed and then nerfed to the ground ?
because that will happen.
I've never advocated for werewolf to get overbuffed (been mostly been asking for bug fixes and group utility) I even suggested back in Dragonbones that the heal should lose some of it's potency (but keep its cost).
Werewolf has lost both damage, sustain and survivability since the Summerset was released (but still being viable due to certain core mechanics being relatively unchanged).
With scalebreaker werewolf lost an insane amount of damage, survivability and sustain. And werewolf has become less viable now than it has ever been for both pve and pvp. All you've do to is read the latest patch notes. And if your conclusion after reading the scalebreaker notes is that ww became more viable, I honestly don't think you've played enough werewolf (or at least vs competent players) to understand them enough.
Still looking forward for those YouTube videos that I seem to have missed where ww is a great 1vX tool vs good players
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