GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

So you are complaining that probably the most op class for the longest time is not still able to kill anything at any time? Then others complain that Magplar that has had it's odd good times and then mostly been in the doldrums is now too op?

Why dont you sit back and see how other classes have had to deal with not being OP, one dimensional or just plain average or why dont you try picking your fights, use cloak or whatever

thankyourat wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Overall it's been forced (nerfed) into mediocrity. Every class I play has a built in way to completely counter nightblades. Hurricane/curse, RoR/jabs, engulfing/spikes, etc.

Nightblades have so many disadvantages class vs class. Although they were my first and most fun class, I legit cringe when they're on my team in BG's.

It's not that I expect the players to be bad. But the kit is lacking. AoE team fights make cloak useless. And if it's an objective to carry their two main defenses cloak and shade are disabled.

So other than heal cloak brawler builds they sit back and look for weak targets leaving the team to 2-3 vs 4. Other than running away ("disengaging") they excell at nothing. Lol

Nightblade lacks in group play because their solo kit is so strong. Just because a class can counter cloak doesn’t mean that they counter a nightblade. Nightblades still excel at single target burst damage along with sorcerer. You also have plenty of ways to survive without relying on cloak, shade dodge roll and healing are all viable. dark cloak is really strong on stamblade also. The problem is too many Nightblades put all their eggs in one batch and expects for cloak to always save them. Stamblades in particular are notorious for this.

With this being said you aren’t going to kill a stam dk on a stamblade but no one is going to kill a stam dk 1v1 that’s just how the class is right now. Stamblades are also bad in battlegrounds because they aren’t designed with group support in mind, but nothing comes close to stamblade for playing solo in Cyrodiil in terms of quality of life and being effective.

This is terribly false. Classes that excel in group fights don't lack single target lethality because they're great in groups. Lol

They're great in Both!
(outside of V.D. btw)

The reverse is also false. To attempt to justify being bad at group fights and BG'S because of being ok at single target is the reason the class is in such a bad spot now.

And again, cloak, shade and dodgeroll all have to do with "disengagement."

The point still stands they excell at nothing outside of that.

I literally said:

"So other than heal cloak brawler builds they sit back and look for weak targets leaving the team to 2-3 vs 4. Other than running away ("disengaging") they excell at nothing."

(admittedly I could've said dark cloak)

And you disagreed BUT when on to say:

"You also have plenty of ways to survive without relying on cloak, shade dodge roll and healing are all viable. dark cloak is really strong on stamblade also. The problem is too many Nightblades put all their eggs in one batch and expects for cloak to always save them. Stamblades in particular are notorious for this."

You're repeating what I've stated. Cloak is heavily countered. You can brawl with dark cloak. But other classes do that far better.

This is why nightblades are low tier in BG's and group fights. It puts the spotlight on the class and it's ability to win a fight.

Running away and hiding in open world can be done with undo and invis pots on any class. Let's stop using that as an excuse to keep the class in its lackluster state.

The classes that shine in group play do lack the single target lethality of a nightblade though you aren’t going to burst me down with a magplar or magdk but with a nightblade there is always that chance of them hitting you with a bow and you losing 70% of your health. I agree that nightblades are bad for organized groups but they excel at solo play. I for one think stamblade in particular is in a great spot you can’t be the number 1 solo class in the game and be in a bad spot. The mobility and burst of stamblades puts them in a position where classes just can’t be anywhere near as effective for solo pvp.

Running away is the way solo pvp is done you aren’t going to stand in a open field tanking through the damage of 7 or 8 players so stamblades ability to be evasive and pick when and how to engage is a huge benefit. Other classes have to take every fight how they come and in open world a lot of times that means the fight is over before it really even got started. With all this being said of course a class with defense designed on running away and being elusive is going to struggle if you try to stand your ground and fight for objectives when that isn’t what the class was designed to do. Instead of getting classes changed we should find a class that is good for the pvp we enjoy.

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Overall it's been forced (nerfed) into mediocrity. Every class I play has a built in way to completely counter nightblades. Hurricane/curse, RoR/jabs, engulfing/spikes, etc.

Nightblades have so many disadvantages class vs class. Although they were my first and most fun class, I legit cringe when they're on my team in BG's.

It's not that I expect the players to be bad. But the kit is lacking. AoE team fights make cloak useless. And if it's an objective to carry their two main defenses cloak and shade are disabled.

So other than heal cloak brawler builds they sit back and look for weak targets leaving the team to 2-3 vs 4. Other than running away ("disengaging") they excell at nothing. Lol

Nightblade lacks in group play because their solo kit is so strong. Just because a class can counter cloak doesn’t mean that they counter a nightblade. Nightblades still excel at single target burst damage along with sorcerer. You also have plenty of ways to survive without relying on cloak, shade dodge roll and healing are all viable. dark cloak is really strong on stamblade also. The problem is too many Nightblades put all their eggs in one batch and expects for cloak to always save them. Stamblades in particular are notorious for this.

With this being said you aren’t going to kill a stam dk on a stamblade but no one is going to kill a stam dk 1v1 that’s just how the class is right now. Stamblades are also bad in battlegrounds because they aren’t designed with group support in mind, but nothing comes close to stamblade for playing solo in Cyrodiil in terms of quality of life and being effective.

This is terribly false. Classes that excel in group fights don't lack single target lethality because they're great in groups. Lol

They're great in Both!
(outside of V.D. btw)

The reverse is also false. To attempt to justify being bad at group fights and BG'S because of being ok at single target is the reason the class is in such a bad spot now.

And again, cloak, shade and dodgeroll all have to do with "disengagement."

The point still stands they excell at nothing outside of that.

I literally said:

"So other than heal cloak brawler builds they sit back and look for weak targets leaving the team to 2-3 vs 4. Other than running away ("disengaging") they excell at nothing."

(admittedly I could've said dark cloak)

And you disagreed BUT when on to say:

"You also have plenty of ways to survive without relying on cloak, shade dodge roll and healing are all viable. dark cloak is really strong on stamblade also. The problem is too many Nightblades put all their eggs in one batch and expects for cloak to always save them. Stamblades in particular are notorious for this."

You're repeating what I've stated. Cloak is heavily countered. You can brawl with dark cloak. But other classes do that far better.

This is why nightblades are low tier in BG's and group fights. It puts the spotlight on the class and it's ability to win a fight.

Running away and hiding in open world can be done with undo and invis pots on any class. Let's stop using that as an excuse to keep the class in its lackluster state.

The classes that shine in group play do lack the single target lethality of a nightblade though you aren’t going to burst me down with a magplar or magdk but with a nightblade there is always that chance of them hitting you with a bow and you losing 70% of your health. I agree that nightblades are bad for organized groups but they excel at solo play. I for one think stamblade in particular is in a great spot you can’t be the number 1 solo class in the game and be in a bad spot. The mobility and burst of stamblades puts them in a position where classes just can’t be anywhere near as effective for solo pvp.

Running away is the way solo pvp is done you aren’t going to stand in a open field tanking through the damage of 7 or 8 players so stamblades ability to be evasive and pick when and how to engage is a huge benefit. Other classes have to take every fight how they come and in open world a lot of times that means the fight is over before it really even got started. With all this being said of course a class with defense designed on running away and being elusive is going to struggle if you try to stand your ground and fight for objectives when that isn’t what the class was designed to do. Instead of getting classes changed we should find a class that is good for the pvp we enjoy.

So your argument for why stamblade shouldn’t be buffed is because they can run away better then the other classes lmao. Please be serious here no matter your views on nb cloak there damage is lacking especially to that of the overkill templar’s damage if you don’t think that’s true play one not in a zerg but against a good player in a 1v1 good luck landing ur bow or incap or solo in cyrodiil.

They shouldn't be buffed because they are strong as is. They have great sustain and skills for heavy, great evasion/damage for medium, and magNB can go DIAF.

If you're having issues, change builds and find what works. I didn't stay Fury/Seventh on my DK because I'm getting eaten alive. I started changing things up and optimizing.

Nightblade is fine. CP system is kinda broken. I can hit 2 SA in the cast time of 1 DS.

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

Mayrael wrote: »

Is stamblade underpowered? Definitely no. Stop creating drama narration like "stamblades are in terrible state" because nobody will treat you seriously.

Do stamblades need buffs? Maybe some tweaks here and there but definitely not in places that are already ok - SA is far from being bad skill. Creating overloaded skills isn't very good for balance.

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Is stamblade underpowered? Definitely no. Stop creating drama narration like "stamblades are in terrible state" because nobody will treat you seriously.

Do stamblades need buffs? Maybe some tweaks here and there but definitely not in places that are already ok - SA is far from being bad skill. Creating overloaded skills isn't very good for balance.

Creating drama would be asking for other classes to be nerfs I don’t care 4 drama only my class.

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

Royalthought wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

What are you basing your idea of nightblades having "highest" burst on? Bow proc tooltip?
The issue maybe you're overestimating nightblades or underestimating other classes.

With onslaught, major fracture damaging skills, stronger class dots and delayed burst that can be combined with other abilities in 1 GCD, the other classes aren't lacking any burst. None.

Other classes can rival nb burst. (And have superior single target parses btw.) But nightblades can't match everything else those classes do. And that's ignoring the fact that their burst works on groups.

Deathlord92 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

What are you basing your idea of nightblades having "highest" burst on? Bow proc tooltip?
The issue maybe you're overestimating nightblades or underestimating other classes.

With onslaught, major fracture damaging skills, stronger class dots and delayed burst that can be combined with other abilities in 1 GCD, the other classes aren't lacking any burst. None.

Other classes can rival nb burst. (And have superior single target parses btw.) But nightblades can't match everything else those classes do. And that's ignoring the fact that their burst works on groups.

I’m basing this on my on experience I pretty much only play nightblade. I’ve recently gotten my nightblade to 5 star so I’ve been practicing with magcro and Magden just for something a little different though I still primarily only play nightblade. In my experience nothing compares to the flat out what just happened burst of a nightblade. A lot of times when you hit someone with a bow proc they are going to lose 60 to 70% of their health. Like I said earlier I’ve recently took a 13k bow from a stamblade I only have 24k health. The builds that don’t take a lot of damage from the bow they can’t kill you either.

All classes have access to burst through ultimates but they are lacking that hard hitting class ability like nightblades and sorcs have. Relentless focus hits about 2.5 times harder than potl and and the DKs whip. Stamblades also received the minor vulnerability buff which I believe comes out to more damage the major fracture. Magblades are the nightblade that actually took a big damage loss.

There are a few changes or buffs that I would like to see nightblades receive but in no way should stamblades get a damage buff. A few changes that I think should happen is that the shadow barrier passive should be longer, add major expedition back to blur, increase the healing of strife, double the crit ratings that pressure points give and reduce the cost of concealed weapon by 30%. I think all of these are good changes to the nightblade class that would benefit both stam and mag without making stamblade already high burst damage completely op.

Stamblade damage is not op and your lying if you say you are bursting tanky dks good ones that is you won’t outright kill a good dk and you definitely will struggle against good templars assuming ur in medium build that’s if templar doesn’t just outright burst you.

Iskiab wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

the only advantage nigbhtblade have today ist the ability to pick fights, but with that high hp builds in non cp, every DK and Temp runs around, u will never burst someone down.

Nightblade isnt in a terrible Spot, but u will mostly loose against Dks or Temps if they know what to do. with NB u are maybe on a level with sorc, and above warden / necro. A good midfield.

Issue is that’s dueling. Change the setting to BGs - Stamblades aren’t very good.

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

Well the Bow proc hits hard but that doesn’t mean that stamblades have the best burst. Heck, even a warden has way better burst.

The Bow proc takes a GCD so you can’t compare tooltips for best burst damage. Use an ability like bugs that does it’s damage 3 seconds later, then time it so the bugs hit at the same time and it’ll destroy the total damage of a Bow proc.

Shalks - psjiic ability/crit rush- LA - dizzy swing. That’s what I do as a Stamwarden for burst and I think it’s higher than stamblade. Then add stamwardens have better survivability, healing, aoe, etc... and you have why I think Stamblades are weak.

hakan wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

the only advantage nigbhtblade have today ist the ability to pick fights, but with that high hp builds in non cp, every DK and Temp runs around, u will never burst someone down.

Nightblade isnt in a terrible Spot, but u will mostly loose against Dks or Temps if they know what to do. with NB u are maybe on a level with sorc, and above warden / necro. A good midfield.

Issue is that’s dueling. Change the setting to BGs - Stamblades aren’t very good.

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

Well the Bow proc hits hard but that doesn’t mean that stamblades have the best burst. Heck, even a warden has way better burst.

The Bow proc takes a GCD so you can’t compare tooltips for best burst damage. Use an ability like bugs that does it’s damage 3 seconds later, then time it so the bugs hit at the same time and it’ll destroy the total damage of a Bow proc.

Shalks - psjiic ability/crit rush- LA - dizzy swing. That’s what I do as a Stamwarden for burst and I think it’s higher than stamblade. Then add stamwardens have better survivability, healing, aoe, etc... and you have why I think Stamblades are weak.

Yup agreed for some of the players here to not see this it feels like they either don’t play stamblade or just hate the class because I know other very good stamblades that also say it’s under performing. I only play stamblade and I feel like it’s under performing.

I don’t play one, just pointing out the obvious. Stamblades are a casualty of pve whining.

Classes have themes and Nightblades is single target damage. PvErs wanted to play whatever class and be competitive dps so the devs made it so.

Result?

Well, when everyone’s doing the same damage but some classes are better at aoe, healing or tankiness what do you think will happen in pvp?

I don’t know if there’s a way to reconcile these things. Now that dps is relatively even amongst classes now people complain every class feels the same. People complain the devs don’t listen, I think the dev’s issue is they listen too damn much and should stop listening to whining, people are asking for things and complaining about the consequences.

Nightblades/Sorcs should be the highest dps or they should think of a new approach to the classes. Stealth assassin doesn’t fit as a class with how they’re changing the game and neither does a glass canon.

Sorcs are having the same issue, ranged glass canon with no canon but still has the glass.

What. PvE whining??? Have you READ the forums? It's all PvP whiners. The thing about PvE is that we only care about the class(es) we play being strong. Nerfing a different class has exactly zero effect on our class--it doesn't address our issues whatsoever.

All of the "XXX is OP" posts on the first page of this section and the General section pertain to PvP. All of them.

nope. all of it cuz PvE. Nb heal/damage, morrowind sustain, racials. Shields are kind of hybrid. Pets also. All that just because one class hits 2k dps more than others.

Pvp nerfs would be speed and some proc sets and thats it.

Iskiab wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

the only advantage nigbhtblade have today ist the ability to pick fights, but with that high hp builds in non cp, every DK and Temp runs around, u will never burst someone down.

Nightblade isnt in a terrible Spot, but u will mostly loose against Dks or Temps if they know what to do. with NB u are maybe on a level with sorc, and above warden / necro. A good midfield.

Issue is that’s dueling. Change the setting to BGs - Stamblades aren’t very good.

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

Well the Bow proc hits hard but that doesn’t mean that stamblades have the best burst. Heck, even a warden has way better burst.

The Bow proc takes a GCD so you can’t compare tooltips for best burst damage. Use an ability like bugs that does it’s damage 3 seconds later, then time it so the bugs hit at the same time and it’ll destroy the total damage of a Bow proc.

Shalks - psjiic ability/crit rush- LA - dizzy swing. That’s what I do as a Stamwarden for burst and I think it’s higher than stamblade. Then add stamwardens have better survivability, healing, aoe, etc... and you have why I think Stamblades are weak.