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Buff stamblade

  • jlb1705
    jlb1705
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    Okay, I just have to jump in here. I've been maining a stamina nightblade for about two years ago. Completed vMA on my stamblade and my magblade, I also run a nightblade tank. I really love picking a class and sticking with it. I have completely ditched my stamblade since last patch in favor of my stamsorc, and I've ditched magblade for magplar. The only time I log into a nightblade now is for tanking, and that's because I don't want to play a dk.

    Nightblade has absolutely been gutted since I first started. I can kind of see the nerf to grim focus (swapping from minor berserk to a more defensive buff) but I'm still salty about major fracture's loss from surprise attack. For PvE grim focus's loss wasn't too bad but you feel the loss of both of those when you are solo PvEing, and I'm not even gonna bother running vMA on my stamblade ever again when I can blow through it on stamsorc.

    I know SA's major frac loss is kind of controversial but as a few people pointed out, other classes have AoE major fractures. As a class that lacks AoE and excels at single target damage, I can no longer tag enemies with major fracture standing in endless hail. Unless the tank is running caltrops (which it seems like nobody is anymore) it's probably not happening. And the patch before that builds have thrown out vigor for shades - so the solution to the nerfs to keep up dps (still not at the top mind you) was to add in another damage dot and throw out a survival/utility skill. There is NO room on our bar for mark.

    One of the things I liked about nightblade is that it had a great learning curve for PvE at least (I'm not too sure about PvP's comparison - I played a NB a lot in BGS, but I honestly think I've overall done better/had a much easier time on templar). For DPS, their rotations were dynamic and pretty difficult to learn and keep up compared to other classes. In its current state, there's no reason to do it. Yes, I can parse a bit better on nightblade than stamsorc if everything goes perfectly, but with the current vMA DW/vDSA bow meta, one mistake and your DPS just shoots down. Comparatively, stamsorc is cakewalk. Playing a stamblade willingly over another stamdps right now is basically saying "I want to pick the hardest possible rotation for the same damage output."

    I like the dynamic rotation, I like managing grim focus procs, but instead of feeling rewarded for mastering something a bit more difficult, I instead feel like I'm gimping myself by playing as one. I feel like a lot of the NB changes have happened because of PvP, and it really sucks for someone who likes both. I also feel like most of the nightblades I have seen in the past are either really good PvE players who have mastered the class, or people who picked it because they're new and haven't realized the strengths/weaknesses of the classes yet (and most of the new players i've seen end up ditching nb for something easier if they realize they are struggling with dps - nightblade is rough as low CP).


    This similar in some ways to where I am. I had been stubborn about beating vMA for the first time on my stamblade since that was my first and my main character. Once I finally did that I decided to try it out with my magplar crafter and it was a revelation just how much easier and more fun it was.

    The main reason I still play my stamblade at all is because I analyzed what I did on my magplar and figured out how to approximate that in a stamblade rotation. I'm not going to be competitive with that build, but I can do vet Craglorn trials and vet DLC dungeons with it, which is good enough for me. I don't consider myself a good player, maybe average (?), and for me I'm much better off sustaining a simple rotation rather than trying to pull off a dynamic one with no margin for error and being perfect just 10% of the time.

    True freedom is not having to care about spectral bow procs. I just want Major Fracture back on Surprise Attack for solo play and dungeon PUGs.
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
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    @jlb1705 The main reason I still play my stamblade at all is because I analyzed what I did on my magplar and figured out how to approximate that in a stamblade rotation.

    Could you expand on this?
  • Royalthought
    Royalthought
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Luede wrote: »
    the only advantage nigbhtblade have today ist the ability to pick fights, but with that high hp builds in non cp, every DK and Temp runs around, u will never burst someone down.

    Nightblade isnt in a terrible Spot, but u will mostly loose against Dks or Temps if they know what to do. with NB u are maybe on a level with sorc, and above warden / necro. A good midfield.

    Issue is that’s dueling. Change the setting to BGs - Stamblades aren’t very good.
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

    All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

    I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

    Well the Bow proc hits hard but that doesn’t mean that stamblades have the best burst. Heck, even a warden has way better burst.

    The Bow proc takes a GCD so you can’t compare tooltips for best burst damage. Use an ability like bugs that does it’s damage 3 seconds later, then time it so the bugs hit at the same time and it’ll destroy the total damage of a Bow proc.

    Shalks - psjiic ability/crit rush- LA - dizzy swing. That’s what I do as a Stamwarden for burst and I think it’s higher than stamblade. Then add stamwardens have better survivability, healing, aoe, etc... and you have why I think Stamblades are weak.

    Stamden also have crazy burst but it’s almost completely useless single target because it by far the easiest burst to avoid this is one of the reasons why stamden are pretty horrible for 1v1 stamden is another class like stamblade that will always be really good. stamblade great 1v1 great 1vX bad for groups. Stamden is bad 1v1 great 1vX and great for groups. They are pretty balanced with each other. Really the only class that I feel is too strong right now is Templar. Stamden, stam dk and stamblade are all pretty even with each other. The all bring something different to the table it’s going to depend on what type of PvP you like to do to determine which is more viable for you. That’s balanced. What would be unbalanced is if all those classes were good at everything.

    Sorry. Nightblade is not even with dk....Its Not. Its good to play every class to experience their strengths and weaknesses. DK is strong in every setting. Nightblades arent.

    Btw stamden burst kills single targets just as well as it does groups. When you're talking about avoidable burst, you're speaking exclusively about sub assault. But that doesn't negate the rest of their kit.

    The overall thing to remember is nightblades don't have an exclusive license to burst. All classes have it. Simply look at what nightblades have outside of burst. Then look at what other classes have and it's a huge difference.

    Even 1v1 we could easily list the counter each class has for nightblades. What counters do nightblades have for other classes?

    In fact nightblades actually had a counter for blastbones (mark) and they nerfed that too. Lol
    Edited by Royalthought on September 4, 2019 2:10AM
  • eso_lytw8
    eso_lytw8
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    Okay, I just have to jump in here. I've been maining a stamina nightblade for about two years ago. Completed vMA on my stamblade and my magblade, I also run a nightblade tank. I really love picking a class and sticking with it. I have completely ditched my stamblade since last patch in favor of my stamsorc, and I've ditched magblade for magplar. The only time I log into a nightblade now is for tanking, and that's because I don't want to play a dk.

    Nightblade has absolutely been gutted since I first started. I can kind of see the nerf to grim focus (swapping from minor berserk to a more defensive buff) but I'm still salty about major fracture's loss from surprise attack. For PvE grim focus's loss wasn't too bad but you feel the loss of both of those when you are solo PvEing, and I'm not even gonna bother running vMA on my stamblade ever again when I can blow through it on stamsorc.

    I know SA's major frac loss is kind of controversial but as a few people pointed out, other classes have AoE major fractures. As a class that lacks AoE and excels at single target damage, I can no longer tag enemies with major fracture standing in endless hail. Unless the tank is running caltrops (which it seems like nobody is anymore) it's probably not happening. And the patch before that builds have thrown out vigor for shades - so the solution to the nerfs to keep up dps (still not at the top mind you) was to add in another damage dot and throw out a survival/utility skill. There is NO room on our bar for mark.

    One of the things I liked about nightblade is that it had a great learning curve for PvE at least (I'm not too sure about PvP's comparison - I played a NB a lot in BGS, but I honestly think I've overall done better/had a much easier time on templar). For DPS, their rotations were dynamic and pretty difficult to learn and keep up compared to other classes. In its current state, there's no reason to do it. Yes, I can parse a bit better on nightblade than stamsorc if everything goes perfectly, but with the current vMA DW/vDSA bow meta, one mistake and your DPS just shoots down. Comparatively, stamsorc is cakewalk. Playing a stamblade willingly over another stamdps right now is basically saying "I want to pick the hardest possible rotation for the same damage output."

    I like the dynamic rotation, I like managing grim focus procs, but instead of feeling rewarded for mastering something a bit more difficult, I instead feel like I'm gimping myself by playing as one. I feel like a lot of the NB changes have happened because of PvP, and it really sucks for someone who likes both. I also feel like most of the nightblades I have seen in the past are either really good PvE players who have mastered the class, or people who picked it because they're new and haven't realized the strengths/weaknesses of the classes yet (and most of the new players i've seen end up ditching nb for something easier if they realize they are struggling with dps - nightblade is rough as low CP).



    You describe my experience to a "T". My first character was a nightblade, he became a stamblade. Since then I have maxed out a magblade, a NB healer, and NB tank. I did my first NB tank prior to any NB tank builds being published. I was the first was I ever saw for a long long time. I loved the feel of the NB, even though I played every other class. I have 15 characters in total 9 dps, 3 tanks and 3 healers. The nightblade has always been my favorite, I did not play it for power....think about it I played a NB healer and tank for probably close to 4 years now, I definitely did not do it for power, I did it for feel.

    Over time the nerfs killed first my healer and then my tank from a fun perspective. Now with Elsweyr and Scalebreaker my dps's are done, the class has nothing unique left that makes them fun..."oh joy I buff my self with my main assassin skill and if I can light weave I will eventually get more defensive". Seriously this is what they cam up with. Not to mention removing fracture from surprise attack. These thing made the class fun and felt like you could contribute in meaningful ways to your group.

    I guess this is what you get with a PVP person in charge of balance. They make changes that benefit their bias, I guess they want something like fortnite where everyone is the same, but I too lost my desire to play my main and thus lost the desire to play to game altogether. It looks like the devs finally realized they messed up are trying to fix things. I just don't know what they can do....the ideas so far have been horrible. Like thinking making merciless a defensive skill. The track record suggests they have a lot to learn about PVE play enjoyment at the class level and have a short time to get there. I am still remaining hopeful.
    < Xbox NA PVE >
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    eso_lytw8 wrote: »
    Okay, I just have to jump in here. I've been maining a stamina nightblade for about two years ago. Completed vMA on my stamblade and my magblade, I also run a nightblade tank. I really love picking a class and sticking with it. I have completely ditched my stamblade since last patch in favor of my stamsorc, and I've ditched magblade for magplar. The only time I log into a nightblade now is for tanking, and that's because I don't want to play a dk.

    Nightblade has absolutely been gutted since I first started. I can kind of see the nerf to grim focus (swapping from minor berserk to a more defensive buff) but I'm still salty about major fracture's loss from surprise attack. For PvE grim focus's loss wasn't too bad but you feel the loss of both of those when you are solo PvEing, and I'm not even gonna bother running vMA on my stamblade ever again when I can blow through it on stamsorc.

    I know SA's major frac loss is kind of controversial but as a few people pointed out, other classes have AoE major fractures. As a class that lacks AoE and excels at single target damage, I can no longer tag enemies with major fracture standing in endless hail. Unless the tank is running caltrops (which it seems like nobody is anymore) it's probably not happening. And the patch before that builds have thrown out vigor for shades - so the solution to the nerfs to keep up dps (still not at the top mind you) was to add in another damage dot and throw out a survival/utility skill. There is NO room on our bar for mark.

    One of the things I liked about nightblade is that it had a great learning curve for PvE at least (I'm not too sure about PvP's comparison - I played a NB a lot in BGS, but I honestly think I've overall done better/had a much easier time on templar). For DPS, their rotations were dynamic and pretty difficult to learn and keep up compared to other classes. In its current state, there's no reason to do it. Yes, I can parse a bit better on nightblade than stamsorc if everything goes perfectly, but with the current vMA DW/vDSA bow meta, one mistake and your DPS just shoots down. Comparatively, stamsorc is cakewalk. Playing a stamblade willingly over another stamdps right now is basically saying "I want to pick the hardest possible rotation for the same damage output."

    I like the dynamic rotation, I like managing grim focus procs, but instead of feeling rewarded for mastering something a bit more difficult, I instead feel like I'm gimping myself by playing as one. I feel like a lot of the NB changes have happened because of PvP, and it really sucks for someone who likes both. I also feel like most of the nightblades I have seen in the past are either really good PvE players who have mastered the class, or people who picked it because they're new and haven't realized the strengths/weaknesses of the classes yet (and most of the new players i've seen end up ditching nb for something easier if they realize they are struggling with dps - nightblade is rough as low CP).



    You describe my experience to a "T". My first character was a nightblade, he became a stamblade. Since then I have maxed out a magblade, a NB healer, and NB tank. I did my first NB tank prior to any NB tank builds being published. I was the first was I ever saw for a long long time. I loved the feel of the NB, even though I played every other class. I have 15 characters in total 9 dps, 3 tanks and 3 healers. The nightblade has always been my favorite, I did not play it for power....think about it I played a NB healer and tank for probably close to 4 years now, I definitely did not do it for power, I did it for feel.

    Over time the nerfs killed first my healer and then my tank from a fun perspective. Now with Elsweyr and Scalebreaker my dps's are done, the class has nothing unique left that makes them fun..."oh joy I buff my self with my main assassin skill and if I can light weave I will eventually get more defensive". Seriously this is what they cam up with. Not to mention removing fracture from surprise attack. These thing made the class fun and felt like you could contribute in meaningful ways to your group.

    I guess this is what you get with a PVP person in charge of balance. They make changes that benefit their bias, I guess they want something like fortnite where everyone is the same, but I too lost my desire to play my main and thus lost the desire to play to game altogether. It looks like the devs finally realized they messed up are trying to fix things. I just don't know what they can do....the ideas so far have been horrible. Like thinking making merciless a defensive skill. The track record suggests they have a lot to learn about PVE play enjoyment at the class level and have a short time to get there. I am still remaining hopeful.
    I know your pve but from a pvp perspective you forgot to mention the ridiculous silence on incap lol why they didn’t let us keep the stun I never understand this 😂
  • Ozazz
    Ozazz
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    befoul defile nerf to incap, 1 patch later insult to injury, cast time's to the ability, keep in mind the only class to receive cast time ulti's. major fracture nerf, merciless resolve nerf as well, then a indirect shuffle nerf as well.
    honestly theres been too many changes that I can recall, lol eso wants it that way!
    safe to say the class has been more than standardized, I would never roll it atm as my other main too which is sorcerer. hint's I quit. Ain't going to stick around horrible patch after horrible patch. it's been the case for on going 2 year's
  • Killset
    Killset
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

    They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

    All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

    I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

    What are you basing your idea of nightblades having "highest" burst on? Bow proc tooltip?
    The issue maybe you're overestimating nightblades or underestimating other classes.

    With onslaught, major fracture damaging skills, stronger class dots and delayed burst that can be combined with other abilities in 1 GCD, the other classes aren't lacking any burst. None.

    Other classes can rival nb burst. (And have superior single target parses btw.) But nightblades can't match everything else those classes do. And that's ignoring the fact that their burst works on groups.

    I’m basing this on my on experience I pretty much only play nightblade. I’ve recently gotten my nightblade to 5 star so I’ve been practicing with magcro and Magden just for something a little different though I still primarily only play nightblade. In my experience nothing compares to the flat out what just happened burst of a nightblade. A lot of times when you hit someone with a bow proc they are going to lose 60 to 70% of their health. Like I said earlier I’ve recently took a 13k bow from a stamblade I only have 24k health. The builds that don’t take a lot of damage from the bow they can’t kill you either.

    All classes have access to burst through ultimates but they are lacking that hard hitting class ability like nightblades and sorcs have. Relentless focus hits about 2.5 times harder than potl and and the DKs whip. Stamblades also received the minor vulnerability buff which I believe comes out to more damage the major fracture. Magblades are the nightblade that actually took a big damage loss.

    There are a few changes or buffs that I would like to see nightblades receive but in no way should stamblades get a damage buff. A few changes that I think should happen is that the shadow barrier passive should be longer, add major expedition back to blur, increase the healing of strife, double the crit ratings that pressure points give and reduce the cost of concealed weapon by 30%. I think all of these are good changes to the nightblade class that would benefit both stam and mag without making stamblade already high burst damage completely op.

    You only play MagNB. I have never seen you on Stamblade. MagNB has been one of the strongest 1v1 and solo open world classes in the game for a very long time. Once the Relentless change went into effect the class was seemingly catapulted into the stratosphere. Your proof that “Stamblade is OK” is that one time you got hit with a 13k bow and yet MagNB can produce those on demand with 3 times the tankiness. My DK, Stamplar, and MagPlar all do significantly more sustained single target damage then my Stamblade. Oddly, most of your suggested “changes” to Nightblade benefit MagNB. I find your arguments biased and disingenuous.
  • jlb1705
    jlb1705
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    @jlb1705 The main reason I still play my stamblade at all is because I analyzed what I did on my magplar and figured out how to approximate that in a stamblade rotation.

    Could you expand on this?

    Sure.

    First of all, I don't do PVP. Also, I'm never in a fully optimized group because I don't get to schedule when I play. YMMV.

    I'm a console player, and one of the big stumbling blocks that I always had was with activating skills that I placed on my LB button. I always had trouble executing a smooth rotation when I was trying to coordinate LB button presses with my left index finger when my right hand was executing the rest of my rotation. Keyboard & mouse players (and those with better coordination if I'm being honest) likely don't even face this issue.

    The magplar build that I enjoyed running had inner light double-barred for the Major Prophecy and 7% max magicka buffs. I slotted that on my LB and that took that button out of the rotation entirely and greatly simplified things for me. Camo Hunter provides similar benefit for stamina characters, and it got buffed for this patch with conditional Minor Berserk, so I double-bar it on LB on my stamblade now. Magplar has built-in self-healing from Puncturing Sweeps, so I changed my stamblade spammable to Bloodthirst. My magplar setup helped me to realize that I'm better off running seven or eight skill slots nearly flawlessly than I am running ten slots poorly.

    Gear: VO, Briarheart, Maelstrom Bow, monster set of choice

    Front bar: Camo Hunter, Power Extraction, Blood Craze, Killer's Blade, Bloodthirst, Incap
    Back bar: Camo Hunter, Lightweight Beast Trap, Poison Injection, Soul-Splitting Trap, Arrow Barrage, Incap

    Since I limit my bars to keep my rotation simple, every slot is at a premium. For that reason, I'm not running Leeching Strikes. I can self-heal from Blood Craze and Bloodthirst, and having Incap double-barred now gives virtually identical sustain. Being a Redguard with VO, I don't really have issues with that anyway. The weapon damage bonus for Flawless Dawnbreaker is no longer passive, so I saw no reason to keep slotting that.

    All in all, I think that too much of the advice out there tells players to do the same things that competitive players do, and if you plug away at it enough you'll get similar result. I imagine that's only true for a small percentage of people. There are reasons that those folks are as good as they are, and those things are not attainable for a lot of people (amount of time invested, deep knowledge of the game, access to information, innate talent). I started seeing better results enjoyed playing more when I discovered how to create builds that worked around my own limitations and took advantage of the things that I'm comfortable with.

    I have Maestrom DW in my bag, so I'm curious to try that out either without a monster set, or with a Briarheart bow on my back bar. I know Alcast is suggesting arena weapons on both bars and no monster set - I wonder how that would work for me with my limited, static rotation.
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Surprise Attack and Incap need a buff. Even when attacking from stealth Surprise Attack is kinda less efficient than using Wrecking Blow and Incap needs to lose it's cast time and replace the silence with something else...
  • stamdammered
    Killset wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

    They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

    All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

    I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

    What are you basing your idea of nightblades having "highest" burst on? Bow proc tooltip?
    The issue maybe you're overestimating nightblades or underestimating other classes.

    With onslaught, major fracture damaging skills, stronger class dots and delayed burst that can be combined with other abilities in 1 GCD, the other classes aren't lacking any burst. None.

    Other classes can rival nb burst. (And have superior single target parses btw.) But nightblades can't match everything else those classes do. And that's ignoring the fact that their burst works on groups.

    I’m basing this on my on experience I pretty much only play nightblade. I’ve recently gotten my nightblade to 5 star so I’ve been practicing with magcro and Magden just for something a little different though I still primarily only play nightblade. In my experience nothing compares to the flat out what just happened burst of a nightblade. A lot of times when you hit someone with a bow proc they are going to lose 60 to 70% of their health. Like I said earlier I’ve recently took a 13k bow from a stamblade I only have 24k health. The builds that don’t take a lot of damage from the bow they can’t kill you either.

    All classes have access to burst through ultimates but they are lacking that hard hitting class ability like nightblades and sorcs have. Relentless focus hits about 2.5 times harder than potl and and the DKs whip. Stamblades also received the minor vulnerability buff which I believe comes out to more damage the major fracture. Magblades are the nightblade that actually took a big damage loss.

    There are a few changes or buffs that I would like to see nightblades receive but in no way should stamblades get a damage buff. A few changes that I think should happen is that the shadow barrier passive should be longer, add major expedition back to blur, increase the healing of strife, double the crit ratings that pressure points give and reduce the cost of concealed weapon by 30%. I think all of these are good changes to the nightblade class that would benefit both stam and mag without making stamblade already high burst damage completely op.

    You only play MagNB. I have never seen you on Stamblade. MagNB has been one of the strongest 1v1 and solo open world classes in the game for a very long time. Once the Relentless change went into effect the class was seemingly catapulted into the stratosphere. Your proof that “Stamblade is OK” is that one time you got hit with a 13k bow and yet MagNB can produce those on demand with 3 times the tankiness. My DK, Stamplar, and MagPlar all do significantly more sustained single target damage then my Stamblade. Oddly, most of your suggested “changes” to Nightblade benefit MagNB. I find your arguments biased and disingenuous.

    From someone who plays both, I have found burst and survivability (if you actually want to fight and not cloak away) are both much better on a Stamblade. I’ve been playing MagNB for the last year and it’s nearly impossible to land a full damage combo against a competent player on magblade because you rely so heavily on the bow proc. I switched to Stamblade this patch and I don’t need the bow proc to get a kill, which just makes it a nice addition for random pressure or a very satisfying finisher if the stars align. From my perspective Magblade is desperately in need of a damage buff and is far from a “top” open world class. If played well it can compete but using it is definitely tying one arm around your back.

    That being said, the class as a whole seems to be behind most other classes. The burst is good but as many others have stated every other class can burst just as well with more utility. If all we have is burst, then it should be great... not just on par with other classes.
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Killset wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

    They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

    All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

    I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

    What are you basing your idea of nightblades having "highest" burst on? Bow proc tooltip?
    The issue maybe you're overestimating nightblades or underestimating other classes.

    With onslaught, major fracture damaging skills, stronger class dots and delayed burst that can be combined with other abilities in 1 GCD, the other classes aren't lacking any burst. None.

    Other classes can rival nb burst. (And have superior single target parses btw.) But nightblades can't match everything else those classes do. And that's ignoring the fact that their burst works on groups.

    I’m basing this on my on experience I pretty much only play nightblade. I’ve recently gotten my nightblade to 5 star so I’ve been practicing with magcro and Magden just for something a little different though I still primarily only play nightblade. In my experience nothing compares to the flat out what just happened burst of a nightblade. A lot of times when you hit someone with a bow proc they are going to lose 60 to 70% of their health. Like I said earlier I’ve recently took a 13k bow from a stamblade I only have 24k health. The builds that don’t take a lot of damage from the bow they can’t kill you either.

    All classes have access to burst through ultimates but they are lacking that hard hitting class ability like nightblades and sorcs have. Relentless focus hits about 2.5 times harder than potl and and the DKs whip. Stamblades also received the minor vulnerability buff which I believe comes out to more damage the major fracture. Magblades are the nightblade that actually took a big damage loss.

    There are a few changes or buffs that I would like to see nightblades receive but in no way should stamblades get a damage buff. A few changes that I think should happen is that the shadow barrier passive should be longer, add major expedition back to blur, increase the healing of strife, double the crit ratings that pressure points give and reduce the cost of concealed weapon by 30%. I think all of these are good changes to the nightblade class that would benefit both stam and mag without making stamblade already high burst damage completely op.

    You only play MagNB. I have never seen you on Stamblade. MagNB has been one of the strongest 1v1 and solo open world classes in the game for a very long time. Once the Relentless change went into effect the class was seemingly catapulted into the stratosphere. Your proof that “Stamblade is OK” is that one time you got hit with a 13k bow and yet MagNB can produce those on demand with 3 times the tankiness. My DK, Stamplar, and MagPlar all do significantly more sustained single target damage then my Stamblade. Oddly, most of your suggested “changes” to Nightblade benefit MagNB. I find your arguments biased and disingenuous.

    From someone who plays both, I have found burst and survivability (if you actually want to fight and not cloak away) are both much better on a Stamblade. I’ve been playing MagNB for the last year and it’s nearly impossible to land a full damage combo against a competent player on magblade because you rely so heavily on the bow proc. I switched to Stamblade this patch and I don’t need the bow proc to get a kill, which just makes it a nice addition for random pressure or a very satisfying finisher if the stars align. From my perspective Magblade is desperately in need of a damage buff and is far from a “top” open world class. If played well it can compete but using it is definitely tying one arm around your back.

    That being said, the class as a whole seems to be behind most other classes. The burst is good but as many others have stated every other class can burst just as well with more utility. If all we have is burst, then it should be great... not just on par with other classes.
    That is the whole point to this thread nb as a class is lacking I also play both I main stamblade tho that’s why I done this thread asking for buffs. In previous thread I asked for concealed weapon buff as I love melee magblade.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Killset wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Stamblades have been underpowered for a while. I’m surprised it took so long for people to notice.

    They don’t even have good burst. Haven’t been succesfully ganked by a stamblade going on 6+ months and they’re a liability in BGs. What’s left?

    All that’s really good about them is they’re a good solo class because of invisibility. In any other setting they’re weak.

    I’m confused as to why people are saying stamblades don’t have good burst. Stamblade still has the best burst damage it’s just delayed now instead of being upfront. It still hits a lot harder than Templars, DKs, wardens and Necromancers. I think that’s pretty good to have noticeably more damage than 4 out of 6 classes. The game is basically two types of PvP solo/small scale and large scale/ball groups. So to say stamblade is only good in small sale pvp is literally half the game. You also have two niche categories of pvp dueling and BGs. Stamblade is still really good at dueling and still really bad at BGs you can’t balance around dueling or battlegrounds though because they are controlled environments that don’t replicate things you encounter in Cyrodiil.

    What are you basing your idea of nightblades having "highest" burst on? Bow proc tooltip?
    The issue maybe you're overestimating nightblades or underestimating other classes.

    With onslaught, major fracture damaging skills, stronger class dots and delayed burst that can be combined with other abilities in 1 GCD, the other classes aren't lacking any burst. None.

    Other classes can rival nb burst. (And have superior single target parses btw.) But nightblades can't match everything else those classes do. And that's ignoring the fact that their burst works on groups.

    I’m basing this on my on experience I pretty much only play nightblade. I’ve recently gotten my nightblade to 5 star so I’ve been practicing with magcro and Magden just for something a little different though I still primarily only play nightblade. In my experience nothing compares to the flat out what just happened burst of a nightblade. A lot of times when you hit someone with a bow proc they are going to lose 60 to 70% of their health. Like I said earlier I’ve recently took a 13k bow from a stamblade I only have 24k health. The builds that don’t take a lot of damage from the bow they can’t kill you either.

    All classes have access to burst through ultimates but they are lacking that hard hitting class ability like nightblades and sorcs have. Relentless focus hits about 2.5 times harder than potl and and the DKs whip. Stamblades also received the minor vulnerability buff which I believe comes out to more damage the major fracture. Magblades are the nightblade that actually took a big damage loss.

    There are a few changes or buffs that I would like to see nightblades receive but in no way should stamblades get a damage buff. A few changes that I think should happen is that the shadow barrier passive should be longer, add major expedition back to blur, increase the healing of strife, double the crit ratings that pressure points give and reduce the cost of concealed weapon by 30%. I think all of these are good changes to the nightblade class that would benefit both stam and mag without making stamblade already high burst damage completely op.

    You only play MagNB. I have never seen you on Stamblade. MagNB has been one of the strongest 1v1 and solo open world classes in the game for a very long time. Once the Relentless change went into effect the class was seemingly catapulted into the stratosphere. Your proof that “Stamblade is OK” is that one time you got hit with a 13k bow and yet MagNB can produce those on demand with 3 times the tankiness. My DK, Stamplar, and MagPlar all do significantly more sustained single target damage then my Stamblade. Oddly, most of your suggested “changes” to Nightblade benefit MagNB. I find your arguments biased and disingenuous.

    I started to play some stamblade right after nightblade loss minor berserk on grim focus. I will sometimes switch my magblade to stamblade if I need a change of pace or just flat out bored with magblade, and I’ll play stamblade for a couple days then switch back. It’s one of the reasons I play dark elf as a race, but you are correct in saying I primarily play magblade 90% of the time but I have experience with both. I also played stamblade in heavy because I saw no benefit in using medium over heavy.

    Stamblade is flat out better than magblade for solo pvp and it’s really not even close and I would guess over 90% of players would agree with with me. I honestly can’t recall a patch where magblade was stronger than stamblade for solo Cyrodiil. Magblade has been notoriously bad open world because for the longest time they had no good hot or access to burst heal. As for duels they have been going back and forth for awhile which one is better. Around Summerset magblade was the best dueling class in the game. After the damage shield change stamblade has been better for duels than magblade especially if you build you stamblade primarily for 1v1 with high health, high weapon damage and dark cloak.

    It’s not a one time thing both nightblades regularly hit harder than 10k bow procs. I’ve also spoken out in the past when magblade was the number one dueling class that the class was too strong 1v1 and needed to be toned down. After the damage shield/healing ward change a year ago magblade has been one of the worse classes. It’s still not great but it’s playable and any buffs to nightblade should be geared towards magblade because stamblade is fine.

    Dk and magplars do more sustained damage but they lack burst damage for example a mag dk can’t beat you unless they run you out of resources because they don’t have the burst to out right kill you. No gap closer so they are easily kited by both stam and magblade, no execute or delayed burst ability. Stam dk is a little different but their pressure and spammable damage is a lot lower than magdk. Templar is broken right now their is no reason to attempt to compare a class to them right now they will probably be nerfed in the next update. Their sustained damage is too high for the amount of defense and group utility they have. The one saving grace is major evasion is a very strong buff against them.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    ✭✭✭
    I wish they had left the pure silence on Incap instead of the bastardized version tied to CC immunity. That would have made stamblade feel very unique and they could actually be USEFUL in BGs for shutting down healers.
  • Royalthought
    Royalthought
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    Looking at update 24s preview, it seems as though warden, dk and sorcs are about to get some improvements.

    Granted, that could mean anything. But what I do know is nightblades weren't mentioned.

    The plot thickens....
    Edited by Royalthought on September 5, 2019 12:01AM
  • cmvet
    cmvet
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    Oooohhhh yes, buff stam blade please :) I enjoy playing mine now, but would never turn down more damage or stuns. I do agree that yhe 0.4 sec ulti cast makes you play differently. However, I find my ulti's land more frequently now when i ambush in. Usually you ambush in and people immediately dodge roll as you hit your ulti (incap, db, onslaught) and it is dodged. Now people dodgeroll, then they don't do a second roll, so I hit them with ulti.
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Looking at update 24s preview, it seems as though warden, dk and sorcs are about to get some improvements.

    Granted, that could mean anything. But what I do know is nightblades weren't mentioned.

    The plot thickens....
    I pray they haven’t mentioned nb yet because they know it’s a very sensitive matter lmao hopefully they mentioned nb nearer the time i can only hope 🙏
  • cmvet
    cmvet
    ✭✭✭
    Looking at update 24s preview, it seems as though warden, dk and sorcs are about to get some improvements.

    Granted, that could mean anything. But what I do know is nightblades weren't mentioned.

    The plot thickens....

    Lol, just what sorc's need....improvements.... Shield/pet sorcs seem to still work very well, Overload builds hit hard as f in cyrodiil, stam sorcs, well yeah, they are still a pain, but could probably use a few tweaks.
  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
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    dk’s spammable aoe lol
    AFK
  • Szende
    Szende
    Just my personal experience about stamblade.

    Supriese attack seems fine to me. In the combat, used with cloak its a good stun. Beacuse doesnt have cast time, can cancel light/heavy attack animations or canceled by roll dodge wich also makes it better than Uppercut for a squishy character. The armor debuff really not much, but i do nomplain about it.

    Incapaciting Strike with silence is kinda fine. People rarely break it and gain CC immunity. If you silence someone when its needed, this kind of "stun" is very effective. The cast time does some trouble thats sure, but not that serious as i imagined. Sometimes the cast time just give enough delay for hit someone after his roll-dodge.

    I feel actually pretty fine my stamblade against the dot metas, templars, etc.
    Really just need to adapt.
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Szende wrote: »
    Just my personal experience about stamblade.

    Supriese attack seems fine to me. In the combat, used with cloak its a good stun. Beacuse doesnt have cast time, can cancel light/heavy attack animations or canceled by roll dodge wich also makes it better than Uppercut for a squishy character. The armor debuff really not much, but i do nomplain about it.

    Incapaciting Strike with silence is kinda fine. People rarely break it and gain CC immunity. If you silence someone when its needed, this kind of "stun" is very effective. The cast time does some trouble thats sure, but not that serious as i imagined. Sometimes the cast time just give enough delay for hit someone after his roll-dodge.

    I feel actually pretty fine my stamblade against the dot metas, templars, etc.
    Really just need to adapt.
    Stamblades are not fine and no way your beating a good templar on one that actually made me laugh 😂
  • hakan
    hakan
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    Szende wrote: »
    Just my personal experience about stamblade.

    Supriese attack seems fine to me. In the combat, used with cloak its a good stun. Beacuse doesnt have cast time, can cancel light/heavy attack animations or canceled by roll dodge wich also makes it better than Uppercut for a squishy character. The armor debuff really not much, but i do nomplain about it.

    Incapaciting Strike with silence is kinda fine. People rarely break it and gain CC immunity. If you silence someone when its needed, this kind of "stun" is very effective. The cast time does some trouble thats sure, but not that serious as i imagined. Sometimes the cast time just give enough delay for hit someone after his roll-dodge.

    I feel actually pretty fine my stamblade against the dot metas, templars, etc.
    Really just need to adapt.

    i agree with SA and Incap. But grim focus needs another work imo.
  • Szende
    Szende
    Yes, i forget about Relentless. Thats really not works so good. I would be happy if its become something like Crystal Fragments and having no healing for example. About that skill, i dont even noticed its "healing power" yet.
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Stibbons
    Stibbons
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    Stamblades are strong in this patch.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Stibbons wrote: »
    Stamblades are strong in this patch.

    In what setting? I’ve yet to come across one.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Vlad9425
    Vlad9425
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    Stibbons wrote: »
    Stamblades are strong in this patch.

    Something that a person who doesn’t play Stamblade would say...
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    Stibbons wrote: »
    Stamblades are strong in this patch.
    I can only assume you don’t play a stamblade lol 😂
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    I have been playing eso since release and only stamblade some magblade this is the first time I have ever felt like my class needs a buff.
  • Jagdkommando
    Jagdkommando
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    stamblade totally ruined, SA nerf, grim change/nerf, im silent about Incap, and many more.... wtf ZOS doing? Anybody has any clue?
  • Szende
    Szende
    I dont get it, why is the anger about Nightblades. As i noticed, its can stand up against Templars or DK's... if something is too tanky to kill, thats too weak for kill you as well if you know the class. Even medium armor stamblades!

    I agree with Relentless, but Incap silence is actually a good, "sneaky" CC what people rarely break. It can be maybe a bit longer cuz' its breakable.

    The only problem with most Stamina Nightblade player, is the "tube vision". Get huge dmg, and nothing else matters.

    Im sure, ZOS will fix the issues with Stamblades, but its really not much, its far not ruined.
    I feel Stamblades more like rouges now instead a ganking class, what im actually happy for. If they buff Relentless Focus somehow, or rework it i would be happy with the class at all.

    For example, i can survive in the chaos of Imperial City at this event for very long. Whole zergs chasing me, but i can escape and get kills while running. Is there any other, squishy class what can do this? I doubt. Please guys do not worry and cry about nightblades, try to adapt instead. I play only stamblade and somehow i were succesful with this patch, so anyone can be.

    Just give some love to Relentless and i would be happy with the class ^^
    PC-EU
    Kyra Leith - PvP Stamina Nightblade
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Szende wrote: »
    I dont get it, why is the anger about Nightblades. As i noticed, its can stand up against Templars or DK's... if something is too tanky to kill, thats too weak for kill you as well if you know the class. Even medium armor stamblades!

    I agree with Relentless, but Incap silence is actually a good, "sneaky" CC what people rarely break. It can be maybe a bit longer cuz' its breakable.

    The only problem with most Stamina Nightblade player, is the "tube vision". Get huge dmg, and nothing else matters.

    Im sure, ZOS will fix the issues with Stamblades, but its really not much, its far not ruined.
    I feel Stamblades more like rouges now instead a ganking class, what im actually happy for. If they buff Relentless Focus somehow, or rework it i would be happy with the class at all.

    For example, i can survive in the chaos of Imperial City at this event for very long. Whole zergs chasing me, but i can escape and get kills while running. Is there any other, squishy class what can do this? I doubt. Please guys do not worry and cry about nightblades, try to adapt instead. I play only stamblade and somehow i were succesful with this patch, so anyone can be.

    Just give some love to Relentless and i would be happy with the class ^^
    A stun on incap would allow us to secure kills atm with cast times most of my incaps are dodge. We need major fracture back so we can kill tanks ur lying if u are saying u kill every stam dk u cross the ones that know what they are doing are to tanky.
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